Investment Funds

[ExpatJ]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

You are so right about Goldman Sachs, i remember early last year they tipped gold to be over 2000$ US by end 2013; their gold analysis is hilariously wrong.

[thecynic]

So I went to Aberdeen today to open an account, but was told that they cannot deal with me directly and I have to use a third-party broker. Reason - I belong to a country that appears in their list of countries with high risk, and their due diligence standards are stronger than the local regulator. They didn't tell me why such a list exists and what it is based on. Interestingly, Thailand appears on the same high-risk list as well. I wonder how that works - discriminating against the people of the country you are operating in.

UOB's online platform is not operational right now as it is still in the process of integrating with ING.

One of them suggested Bualuang Securities. I checked out their website and they offer a whole lot of other funds too. Anyone has any idea about them. I wasn't able to go to Bualuang today, will have to wait till next week. But, it will help if someone knows if they are any good (no extra charges, no hidden costs etc..). Or any other broker for that matter. I only want to be able to invest in LTFs online. I don't want to do it the manual way, because I know I will never be able to find the time or the energy to continue to do that.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Cheers!

[fletchsmile]

Bualuang is linked to Bangkok Bank. It's their asset management arm like TMB has TMB asset management.

The Bualuang LTF they have is quite decent if you look it up on MorningStar and comparable with Aberdeen or UOB Good Governance, if you play around with the performance tables. Better over 3 years but not as good over 5 historically. I actually looked into buying some but my bank doesn't offer it. I believe you need to go direct to Bualuang.

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

They have an online platform.

Would be interested to know what nationality you are, as I didn't realise Aberdeen did that? Understand if you don't want to say.

I do know some parties for example don't sell mutual funds to Americans.

Cheers

Fletch

[thecynic]

Thanks Fletch. I will open an account with Bualuang next week.

The weird thing is that I can invest in Aberdeen's funds using Bualuang (and other local brokers), but cannot do it directly with them. They had four different lists - no/low risk, medium risk, high risk and the black list (N. Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc).

India (my country) falls in the high-risk list. For the people from countries in this list, which had 30-40 countries I guess, they require lots of additional documents, which they didn't mention. They were mostly just telling me that they and I both would be better off if I went to a local broker. They didn't want the extra hassle, and most likely I wouldn't have either. Apparently I would have had to furnish additional documents every time I made a purchase or redeem the funds. I suppose things would have turned out differently if I was an HNI.

I wonder if it has anything to do with money laundering, but not sure.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Cheers!

[Ludacris]

You can also try Krungsri. They're quite foreigner friendly after recently buying out HSBC's Thailand operations.

They have a large selection of mutual funds and also have an online platform. And they provide credit cards to foreigners as well.

http://www.krungsriasset.com/en/

You can also open a mutual fund account from any branch. Not sure if they have the same 'high risk' country problem though.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[seb2015]

So I was at Bangkok Bank Exchange tower branch today to register to their online investment platform.

- Note that you'll have to already be a user of their Baluang Ibanking online device before you can do that -

But when the bank officer told me he couldn't process my registration if I wasn't buying any of their funds in the same process, I canceled the application - did not find that quite professional + the buying order form was in Thai language as well as their brochure.

Will try at my original branch next week , and hopefully will have more news for you. Almost 2 years I'm using BBank and their Ibanking system and am quite happy with it so far, except for that little archaic episode

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[isawasnake]

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Hey Fletch,

That's great info. I am also looking to invest into some LTFs and Aberdeen and UOB look good. Had a question though, what platform do you use for buying them? I want to be able to do it online every month.

Cheers

I also prefer buying online, and outside of Thailand don't consider anything else.

In Thailand though, as I always get told "we do things differently here" I don't use an online platform for buying mutual funds. I buy thru Stan Chart. They send a messenger with the forms all filled in. I sign and a messenger picks them up. Main reasons are:

- When I started in Thailand about 16 years ago no-one had online for this, so historic and a bit lazy to change

- Buying thru the bank it counts to my Priority Banking status for other perks and maintains a relationship, as I do other things at the same time and they let me know other things happening, plus they'll keep forms etc if I'm out of the country

- Easy to do for the wife and kids at the same time without multiple logins. Plus easy for the wife to go to the relationship manager if anything happens to me

- You can buy from multiple fund houses all consolidated under the same umbrella.

All in all good service

You could go direct to Aberdeen for their online platform, and most fund management houses do. As people mention above their are some good/ easy routes. For the local banks, eg Bangkok Bank, TMB, Krungthai they offer a more limited fund range and tend to sell mainly their assets management subsidiaries. So you'll end up with multiple logins in different systems, but then again online is easier in some ways.

Cheers

Fletch

Yes, I am quite a bit less lazy than Fletch I suppose and I use Aberdeen's e-avenue and ibanking from Bangkok bank to purchase mutual funds online. Both online services function excellently. Of significant note for some perhaps, Bualuang (Bangkok Bank) funds can be purchased until 4 o'clock, while Aberdeen's system allows only until 330.

[Ludacris]

Seb, there's no need to make your life in Thailand more difficult than it already is.

Yes, many things here are annoying and unprofessional, but when there's a quick, easy, and simple solution why don't you take it.

Most funds have minimum subscription amount of 2000B. Just put that in any of the funds and then you're done.

Then you can do your research later and then buy from their online system. Much easier than wasting your time at one branch, then going all the way to a different branch on another day and running into the same rules and going through the whole application process again.

In my world, anytime I can give 2000B to myself to make my life easier I'll do it.

[isawasnake]

So I went to Aberdeen today to open an account, but was told that they cannot deal with me directly and I have to use a third-party broker. Reason - I belong to a country that appears in their list of countries with high risk, and their due diligence standards are stronger than the local regulator. They didn't tell me why such a list exists and what it is based on. Interestingly, Thailand appears on the same high-risk list as well. I wonder how that works - discriminating against the people of the country you are operating in.

UOB's online platform is not operational right now as it is still in the process of integrating with ING.

One of them suggested Bualuang Securities. I checked out their website and they offer a whole lot of other funds too. Anyone has any idea about them. I wasn't able to go to Bualuang today, will have to wait till next week. But, it will help if someone knows if they are any good (no extra charges, no hidden costs etc..). Or any other broker for that matter. I only want to be able to invest in LTFs online. I don't want to do it the manual way, because I know I will never be able to find the time or the energy to continue to do that.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Cheers!

I hope this helps, I am not use if you are from the US as I am??

I went to the Bualuang Branch on Sathorn road, asked them if I could purchase some shares of their mutual funds, they looked at me like I was crazy (isn't this the product they would like to sell?? and they promptly directed me downstairs to what is a large Bangkok Bank branch to purchase the funds. I would gladly go out of my way and go back to that branch, because the women there were very competent and the service was just great. I find the mileage varies on this depending on the branch. I asked them to set up ibanking to purchase online, and after I opened a savings account there it really wasn't too hard. They mailed me the passcode to my ibanking account a few weeks later.

Aberdeen's head office is very near there, as you may know. I saw a very disconcerted look on the woman's face when I told her I was an American and wanting to purchase funds. I just immediately decided to purchase their funds in my wife's name, as I had been through a big runaround with UOB regarding purchasing mutual funds as an American a few days prior. You may not have this option of course, but after going that route, everything went smooth. Same as bangkok bank.... waited a few weeks to get a passcode for the e-avenue purchases online. Not sure if I could have gotten around all this without having a Thai wife??

I THINK, have not actually done this, you have the option to purchase Aberdeen funds on their e-avenue even without having purchased them before. This option seems to be there on e-avenue. In other words, if you have not ever bought Aberdeen's Siam Leaders fund before, but you are currently set up to purchase Aberdeen Growth online, you could simply purchase Siam leaders online. I would be curious if others can confirm this? This option does not seem to be available with Bualuang's Ibanking - you must go in to a branch every time you want a new fund.

In more direct answer to your question, Bualuang are VERY good in my estimation. I have had no problems with their service, have been quite pleased actually (rare for me in Thailand), and the funds I have bought from them have very reasonable fees and I also very much like the way they have performed, at least in the short term. The Top Ten fund seemed very well buffered somehow against the recent downturns in the SET, and it seems to respond particularly well to the upturns in the SET as well. I will defer to others as to exactly why this may be the case. I work 10 hour days so have a hard time keeping up with it all

[wolfmanjack]

A friend of mine is doing well with the stock of Laotian electric company.

They have lots of projects to exploit hydroelectrical power and they are selling energy to other countries including Thailand.

Since Laos has state monopoly, the company is quite solid with no risks of competition.

It gives a fat dividend of about 10% a year and it is traded in the SET.

Worth checking.

Laotian electric company? never heard of it. Be more specific. what is the stck symbol?

I haven't been able to find it on the SET but it is one of the 3 companies on the Laos stock exchange.

[JacChang]

For bonds you can go with mutual funds, I personally use Kasikornbank. Just walk in and let them know you would like to open a mutual funds account with online service. After that you can easily buy/sell funds anytime you wish from your computer. I have k-money right now, it provided 3% returns the past year, recently however roughly 2-2.5%. No front end fees or anything. You put 1 million in, you get 1,020,000+ when you redeem it a year later. It totally replaces the traditional people who still put in time deposits. Those are a joke. With k-money, you can redeem anytime you want, and the money comes in on the next day. Let's say you would like to put it in for a week, you will not get a crap 1% time deposit rate for 1 week, instead you will still benefit from the 2-2.5% rate even if you put it in for a week. I dont let any free money lie around doing nothing, everything that does not get used, gets thrown in there without any thoughts.

Gold, definitely stay away from mutual funds. You dont need a fund manager for that to be actively managed. Open a stock broker account and buy gold etfs. There are atleast 6 etfs related to gold that is managed by different banks. To name a few GLD, KG965, GOLD99, TGOLDETF. It's very simple, 3 brokers I would recomment in terms of English service and top notch platforms (speed/stability) are Phatra, KGI, MBKET. Log in online, put down an order for any of the etfs I have mentioned and voila, you own gold. The value 'should' follow the international gold prices and so on. As someone mentioned, gold is not an investment. It's simply a hedge. It doesn't provide income or grow in real value by itself. The price goes up when stocks have failed, bonds have failed, and it's the last resort. It's a behavioral asset. When the mass of investors retreat from stocks and bonds, there's only one place to go, and that is gold. Gold will be the top performer when others have failed. We have seen the drop in recent years, however I am confident to say, now is the time to buy, from the technical charts, the bear is over. Total portfolio size reserved for gold should only be about 3-10%, not more.

And please dont get asset allocated balanced funds (Stocks and bonds combined). Trust me, you'll do better if you buy your own 60% stocks mutual fund, and 40% bond fund. A balanced fund will charge you roughly 1.5-2% management fee to manage your stocks (which is fine) AND your bonds (Which is absurd). Why would you want to pay a fee of 2% so that manager can buy a 3-4% 10 yr bond for you? Dont do it. Buy individual stock mutual fund, and then buy individual bond fund (less than 1% management fee for the manager to buy you a 3-4% 10 yr bond). Try it, take ANY stock mutual fund and a bond fund and add them up divide by 2. That performance is GUARANTEED to be better than a so called asset allocation fund.

BTSGIF infrastructure fund. One of my larger holdings too, gives quarterly dividends. About 7-9% yields per year, inflation proof, recession proof? Solid.

A lot of good points Jac

I agree with you that usually it's better to buy a separate equity fund and a separate fixed income fund. The main quirk I came across is as mentioned Long Term Equity Funds. You can't get the tax relief on the Thai fixed income in an LTF as they are supposed to be mainly equity. So if someone wanted say THB 350k in Thai equity and they were also interested in fixed income of say THB 150k it pays to combine them in a 70/30 LTF as you can then get up to 35% tax relief on the bonds thrown in for free.

i.e buy separate you can only get 35% tax relief on 350 equities, but combine the two in one fund and you can get 35% tax relief on 500. The 35% tax relief on the extra 150k bonds outweighs getting stitched by 1% on the charges. Doesn't happen in many cases though, and if you're buying over the max limit in equities alone not worth it either.

BTW Why do you have 3 brokers here? I also use KGI and have been very happy with them. What do the other two add to the mix?

Cheers

Fletch

Thanks Fletch, I enjoy talking about investments with like-minded people, always something to learn. Well the reason I have so many brokers is because haha I was chasing this technical chart software "Liberty News", it has the best program in my opinion and ease of use. Plus it's in English. However, broker after broker started to discontinue the use and contract with the company. I had to email the company directly and ask what was going on, and requested a list of brokers in Thailand that still uses them. Phatra is my main one for now, fast service, never any delay. I use bualuang too, but the service and speed is really poor. I only take advantage of the no daily minimum commission fee, which works for me when I need to buy shares value of less than 30,000 and allows me to diversify. Plus it has Aspen technical chart which I use for now. No idea what happen to phatra, they completely wiped out the technical chart program from their website, now they only have the referral "eFinance portal" but it's in thai.

The thai market still has alot of nice jewels I found in the recent months. Got over 20% just a few weeks ago. I got SAMART and a few others. But of course like all investment advices, it's not only what you buy, it's the timing too. So for new people, dont just start jumping in and buying the stocks people recommend here. Take time to learn how to view the technical chart. Investing is real. I despise people who claim investing is dangerous or risky. Just like driving, we've seen people who drive without brains and piss people off. Or who park their little cars in two parking spaces. I've put in almost 5+ years of investment learning I could start a university degree in this subject lol. Take the time to learn. Investment is only risky when you make the wrong choices. SET maybe has over 500 or 1000 companies? I look through every single one, study each carefully, and buy those assets. Of the thousands of companies, only 10-15 companies get filtered out as acceptable by me. Sadly only 1 or 2 are recommended by brokers or even mentioned in any media. No disrespect, but I've never cared about any broker recommendations or reports. I'll just see what they have to say but never taken them seriously. They have their own personal motives, we do our own homework and do our own investing.

I take advantage of the thai protests too, good chance to enter. And no I dont work for any of the firms or in the investment business like someone cautioned haha. Just my personal passion and interest in investing.

[SheungWan]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

You are so right about Goldman Sachs, i remember early last year they tipped gold to be over 2000$ US by end 2013; their gold analysis is hilariously wrong.

Your story is hilariously bogus. GS predicted in June 2013 for gold to end the year at $1300 a figure 10% lower than what they predicted earlier.

[ExpatJ]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

You are so right about Goldman Sachs, i remember early last year they tipped gold to be over 2000$ US by end 2013; their gold analysis is hilariously wrong.

Your story is hilariously bogus. GS predicted in June 2013 for gold to end the year at $1300 a figure 10% lower than what they predicted earlier.

Google

'Reuters Goldman gold price 2013' and you will see they predicted 1, 940 dollars an ounce by end 2013 (prediction made end 2012). As I said: hilariously wrong.

[SheungWan]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

You are so right about Goldman Sachs, i remember early last year they tipped gold to be over 2000$ US by end 2013; their gold analysis is hilariously wrong.

Your story is hilariously bogus. GS predicted in June 2013 for gold to end the year at $1300 a figure 10% lower than what they predicted earlier.

Google

'Reuters Goldman gold price 2013' and you will see they predicted 1, 940 dollars an ounce by end 2013 (prediction made end 2012). As I said: hilariously wrong.

Try not to repeat the bogus assertion. If you care to read the Reuters article you will see that GS both modified and changed its predictions in line with developments and anticipated outcomes. The higher figure was in anticipation of lower US growth, but a lower figure anticipated if growth improved as has turned out. Have another go.

[ExpatJ]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

You are so right about Goldman Sachs, i remember early last year they tipped gold to be over 2000$ US by end 2013; their gold analysis is hilariously wrong.

Your story is hilariously bogus. GS predicted in June 2013 for gold to end the year at $1300 a figure 10% lower than what they predicted earlier.

Google

'Reuters Goldman gold price 2013' and you will see they predicted 1, 940 dollars an ounce by end 2013 (prediction made end 2012). As I said: hilariously wrong.

Try not to repeat the bogus assertion. If you care to read the Reuters article you will see that GS both modified and changed its predictions in line with developments and anticipated outcomes. The higher figure was in anticipation of lower US growth, but a lower figure anticipated if growth improved as has turned out. Have another go.

They predicted close to 2,000 $ by end 2013 as I said originally. The fact they revised their figure closer to the end date when they realized they had got it so wrong hardly inspires confidence (if you find it so impressive - up to you - im not sure other the readers of Thai visa are so easily pleased

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SheungWan]

They predicted close to 2,000 $ by end 2013 as I said originally. The fact they revised their figure closer to the end date when they realized they had got it so wrong hardly inspires confidence (if you find it so impressive - up to you - im not sure other the readers of Thai visa are so easily pleased

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The predictions had already changed by June 2013, hardly 'closer to the end date'.

[SanukDii]

Gentlemen,

may i suggest heavy sabers sunday morning at dawn on the lawn of my front garden?

i will provide refreshments, hard drinks and Thai food delicacies and my gardener will dress wounds and amputate limbs (if need be).

We should do that every week for disputes on this board.

Sent from my SGP321 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[singburisam]

My wife is a Thai national and would like to put some of her savings into a Thai equity mutual fund; she'd like to do this in a simple convenient way. We don't need specific investment advice but want to understand the mechanics.

Do funds offered by Bangkok Bank or Krungthai Bank have reasonable fee structures? We live far from any big city so it would seem convenient to deal with a bank where she's already a customer.

My wife is not a taxpayer (except for a flat-rate tax on savings deposit interest) and we know nothing about Thai taxes. If she invests in a mutual fund, what will happen to her tax status?

Would it help or hinder to open the mutual fund account in her child's name?