Committee Meetings Twice Per Year?

[ripley]

Our present Committee now insists on adhering to the Condominium Act and meeting only twice per year. They're pressing to amend our Regulations to reflect this policy. I can't see how they can possibly perform proper oversight, etc. under these circumstances.

We're a very large building and have had a Management company on board for the better part of one year plus a JPM. Who will oversee their work if not the elected representatives of the Co-Owners? We have always operated with an active committee, meeting a minimum of once per month. (To be fair, we have often experienced financial irregularities and in-fighting under this system.)

It never occurred to me that the elected representatives of the Co-Owners would dream they could perform the job in two meetings per year. Sounds dangerous to me. Is there anything we can do about this? Should we do anything about this? Is this as perilous as it sounds to me? Has anyone out there got experience with the situation? I'd really appreciate your comments, experiences and suggestions.

[Delight]

The Condo Act specifies that the committee should meet ‘at least every 6 months ’

Is it the intent of the current committee to ensure that the wording ‘at least every 6 months ’ means ‘ twice a year max.’?

The committee at the condo where I live typically only physically meet every 6 months-however many decisions are taken via e mail.

It seems to work o.k.

All the big decisions are taken at the AGM . The 12 months after that is about implementing these decisions.

Individual committee members are charged with monitoring specific projects.

Meeting every month would just be a bureaucratic headache –I think.

[tropic1000]

I am on several committee boards in Thailand and here's a few thoughts:

[1] Be sure you know the most recent version of Thai law. The most recent version i found is Revision 4 of the 2008 Condo Act. See Section 22 of this PDF http://nova-thailand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Condominium-Act-2008.pdf This law overrides and mandates the regulations of all condos and even how these regulations can be changed. Note they are not necessarily that easy to change. The law also dictates what needs to be decided at the AGM versus what can and/or should be handled by the committee. For the point you bring up, the PDF states in Section 22: “SECTION 38 line 3: The committee shall retain the authority and duty ... to convene a committee meeting at least once every six months;..." The words "at least" are a key here and don't match what you say in line 1 of your post.

[2] To me, the correct number of meetings is that amount needed to maintain and manage the condo to achieve a pleasant environment for all residents - which includes safety, security, good function, appearance, peace, and quiet. The worse things are, the more effort, research, and discussion needed by a committee to get the job done. It also depends a lot on how well the committee members work together and how much support is given by hired management; furthermore, missed meetings and conflicts of interest by members will certainly hamper a committee's progress. Maintenance planning and financial management alone take lots of time in order to avoid problems and surprises as maintenance and replacement needs grow.

[3] Putting a good committee together can be difficult, and i am surprised that any condo committee, e.g yours, would actually see a need to limit the meetings to 2.

My question is: Was a reason given to limit the meetings?

Unless a good reason is given, i personally would recommend to oppose this as being unnecessary and even risky.

Edited March 15, 2014 by tropic1000

[smutcakes]

There is not really much you can do. Oppose it yes, but the Committee can just fob you off, or say they do a huge amount of work over email etc The elected Committee are an elected Committee, what you say or how they react does not really have any affect on them.

The only way you could get rid of them would be via a General Meeting, and if the Committee or JPM were not willing to call one on your request, then it would be up to you to gather 20% of the ownership and submit a request to the Committee for the meeting.

From what i have experienced in Bangkok meetings tend to be held monthly, and in Pattaya/Phuket you are lucky if you can get people together once a quarter.

[ripley]

The Committee is saying they are only required by law to meet twice per year and that is their intention. If they intend to rely on on-line communications (which I think would be a good idea) they don't mention it. The reason stated is that the members don't want to give more of their time to this voluntary position. I don't know how well they get along or whether this is a factor. Quite a few meetings (which were scheduled once per month in 2013) have been aborted due to lack of a quorum.

As they aren't required by Condo law to meet more than twice per year, then I can't see how can they be compelled to do so by any means legally open to us.

[tropic1000]

Ripley wrote: They're pressing to amend our Regulations to reflect this policy.

It sounds like you have two issues:

[1] you are not happy that the committee wants to amend the regulations to support 2 meetings per year

[2] you are wondering if they can get the job done with only two meetings per year.

The first seems strange, as the law already allows this. Generally they would need an AGM approval by 50% of the owners [section 48/4] to change a bylaw or regulation and i doubt this one would pass.

The second is tough but i would doubt they could do a good job with only two meetings a year unless the manager and outside management company have everything perfectly handled, and this is rare especially in regards to proper funding of future maintenance. Volunteer committees can vary in their interest and time they can devote to do the needed work. It's hard to fire the lazy members. Try summarize all the things you see that are not getting done and talk to the JPM or the property manager to see where the ball is being dropped. Once you have a handle on this, then write a letter to the committee stating the issues and see if you can follow up with the chairman. It may even be that they appreciate the input.

Can you get elected at the next AGM or at least seek a consensus of other owners that share your concerns? Try set up webpage on Facebook or www.AddressTalk.com

There's always the option of talking to a consultant, such as a lawyer, about your concern that the committee and management are allowing the property to degrade. Your condo is an asset you may best protect by seeking action, but there may be risk in that too.

[falkan]

anyone else getting paid to vote right? hehe..

[smutcakes]

The Committee is saying they are only required by law to meet twice per year and that is their intention. If they intend to rely on on-line communications (which I think would be a good idea) they don't mention it. The reason stated is that the members don't want to give more of their time to this voluntary position. I don't know how well they get along or whether this is a factor. Quite a few meetings (which were scheduled once per month in 2013) have been aborted due to lack of a quorum.

As they aren't required by Condo law to meet more than twice per year, then I can't see how can they be compelled to do so by any means legally open to us.

Really its irrelevant what is says in your condo regs. Even if it says meetings had to be done monthly, in reality the Condo law supersedes individual condo regulations, and as such if someone really wanted to take issue with it, it would not get very far as they would be meeting the stipulations of Condo law.

I am not sure where your Condo is, but in places like Pattaya, often Committee's are very well meaning, but just circumstance dictates that due to people being abroad for times of the year, it generally means that it is difficult to get quorum.

I would prefer a Committee comprising of 9 people who came and went, but were very active over email, phone etc than a Committee that met religiously but were generally inactive and did not care about the building.

[ripley]

Seems like the majority of answers here so far agree that a Committee cannot perform its responsibilities and protect the well-being of the Condominium in 2 meetings per year, although cyber-meetings & communications could and have proved in some bldgs to replace an excess of more formal ones.

I'm aware that a condo's Regulations can not override the Thai Condo Act. I don't think that any vote in any General Mtng. can compel a Committee to do anything in contravention of the Act. I am concerned that our building and community will be inadequately protected and maintained. Our Committees have always met at least once per month so this latest declaration of change came as a shock. And now the Owners' elected representation in condo administration is pretty puny. I doubt that any amount of complaining or organizing (ever tried to organize a large Condo to unite in doing anything?!) can compel a Committee or any Condo official to do anything not specified by or in contravention of the Act.

Although doing business via e-mail rather than physical meetings is a useful idea, it's not required. It's purely voluntary. (I think).

According to the section quoted below, I can't see how a Committee's duties can be competenty discharged in 2 meetings per year - whether they take place a month apart or 6 months apart. As has often been a source of frustration to Condominiums, once again the Act contradicts itself.

Perhaps an answer lies in this very contradiction. If a Committee fails in its obligation to perform the above tasks, they can face legal repercussions from the Owners. Cold comfort.

Section 38 The Board shall have the power and duty as follows:

(1) Monitoring control over the condominium corporate managements,
(2) Appointing a member to assume duties of the Manager of the condominium corporate in the case where there is no Manager or the Manager is unable to perform normal duties in excess of seven days.
(3) Arranging the Board Meeting to be convened at least once every six months.
(4) Other duties prescribed under Ministerial Regulation.

Edited March 17, 2014 by ripley

[riki48]

Hi Ripley

I sit on a committee and we meet once a month.

I would think twice a year is not sufficient, Sounds like the committee put a lot of trust in your management.

We also communicate via e-mail however we do not allow e-mail voting and had a majority agree that any agenda voting has to take place at the monthly meetings with a show of hands.

[ripley]

Yes. It did occur to me that there are duties that need to be performed in person throughout the year. For instance, in our bldg. cheques need to be signed by more than one member (not sure how many now - used to be 4 people especially for Special Projects outlays). Periodic inspections of the bldg. must be conducted. Special projects require oversight, unless the Committee intends to rely on 1.) the opinion & attention of the management company 2.) complaints from the Owners 3.) pipes bursting, the roof falling on our heads, etc. The list becomes longer if you include attention to the contractors hired, bids entertained, prioritizing tasks and following them to completion. These items and many others are what we rely upon our elected representatives to perform.

Altho we don't always agree, I've always had a great deal of respect for the Owners who volunteer to serve on a Committee precisely because it often entails a lot of work and responsibility - usually with scant acknowledgement or respect. But that, it seems to me, is the job.

As things stand, guess we wait and see how it plays out. It may be that the Committee itself will come to realize that more frequent and consistent effort is required to perform their duties. Alternatively, perhaps we'll discover that the Management Co. & JPM can be relied upon to run the bldg. and previous Committees have been knocking themselves out for nothing!

Thanks for all the input. Please post anytime if you have any bright ideas or comments.

ripley

[cheeryble]

Something odd here.

It's one thing a committee only meeting twice a year.

At best it means they are doing the work unofficially but owners are not able to monitor progress more than twice a year in minutes.

At worst it's simply not enough for effective oversight.

However, meeting just twice a year is one thing. Your suggestion that they want to put it into the condo regs is close to bizarre.....I have to ask if you have it right, because what is the advantage over the status quo?

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[ripley]

The Committee says that they just want to bring our Regulations in line with the Thai Condo Act. For this reason, they've compared the Regs w/ the Act, and submitted amendments to the Owners.

Personally, I don't get it either. No Regulation can supercede the Act. Seems like there are many other more important jobs they could put energy into (especially on the minimum meetings per yr.). Personally, based on info I've got thus far, I surmise they also want to underscore the fact that they aren't required by Law to have many meetings.

I absolutely agree w/ you that if work were being done via e-mail, the Owners would not have access to minutes of a Committee's internal discussions and decision-making. I'm concerned about this as well.

My major fear is simply this: That it's foolhardy to give paid employees (the Management Company and bldg. Manager) full freedom to run a Condominium without careful and consistent supervision. Opens the door to graft and neglect which we know occurs even when Owner Representatives are on the job. I anticipate it is a matter of time before our CAM rates go up, "Special Funds" increase, the bldg. deteriorates, etc.

But that's just me.

[cheeryble]

Yes it's fishy and yes graft is rife.

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