Why Don't Christian Missionaries Tip?

[Axel]

Mi$$ionarie$ $uck (seen on a pickup truck in Chiang Mai).

What did you see, the sign or the missionaries?

[...Ken]

When it comes to tipping in Thailand ....it seems that most tourists and an increasing number of people who stay too long, miss the point of the 'Big Man'. Thais respect the 'Big Man'. The Big Man at the table pays the bill, the big man at the table tips big (with audience attending). The Big Man buys the 'respect' of all Thais around him. The little men OWE the big man. It is all to do with power and control in a class system. You Brits should understand this better than the rest of us.

Many Thais cannot understand the Fallang....when you have the money to be the 'Big Man' why do you act so bleedin' cheap ?

You have to put everything into a cultural context. YOUR opinions don't amount to a pile of dog squat if you are attempting to live in another culture.

Yes.....Thai farmers don't tip.......Thai civil servants seldom tip unless they are trying to get laid for free, but you Fallangland folks are not Thais and are expected to substantiate your position on the Thai social ladder.

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand. The Thais gave us a degree of respect for being 'the big man' simply because we were 'white'. The Thais have since learned through experience that just because we are a Fallang we are not necessarily worthy of THEIR respect.

Being 'kee nee oh' does not make you one of the gang.......it undermines your 'value' in Thai society.

As for christians...they are simply misdirected and deserve no more respect than any fool is due..

...Ken

[JRingo]

When it comes to tipping in Thailand ....it seems that most tourists and an increasing number of people who stay too long, miss the point of the 'Big Man'. Thais respect the 'Big Man'. The Big Man at the table pays the bill, the big man at the table tips big (with audience attending). The Big Man buys the 'respect' of all Thais around him. The little men OWE the big man. It is all to do with power and control in a class system. You Brits should understand this better than the rest of us.

Many Thais cannot understand the Fallang....when you have the money to be the 'Big Man' why do you act so bleedin' cheap ?

You have to put everything into a cultural context. YOUR opinions don't amount to a pile of dog squat if you are attempting to live in another culture.

Yes.....Thai farmers don't tip.......Thai civil servants seldom tip unless they are trying to get laid for free, but you Fallangland folks are not Thais and are expected to substantiate your position on the Thai social ladder.

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand. The Thais gave us a degree of respect for being 'the big man' simply because we were 'white'. The Thais have since learned through experience that just because we are a Fallang we are not necessarily worthy of THEIR respect.

Being 'kee nee oh' does not make you one of the gang.......it undermines your 'value' in Thai society.

As for christians...they are simply misdirected and deserve no more respect than any fool is due..

...Ken

Very well said Ken.

[JRingo]

Mi$$ionarie$ $uck (seen on a pickup truck in Chiang Mai).

What did you see, the sign or the missionaries?

This guy had a problem with missionaries messing with his Akha friends.

He was recently deported and blacklisted as persona non gratis.

Google Akha Foundation

[Maejo Man]

Maybe the missionaries have not read Matthew 25 verse 34 onwards

OK we all know that you're itching to quote it for us, so you may as well save Chaingmai a veritable dust storm as all TV members blow the dust of their good books

[Rasseru]

When it comes to tipping in Thailand ....it seems that most tourists and an increasing number of people who stay too long, miss the point of the 'Big Man'. Thais respect the 'Big Man'. The Big Man at the table pays the bill, the big man at the table tips big (with audience attending). The Big Man buys the 'respect' of all Thais around him. The little men OWE the big man. It is all to do with power and control in a class system. You Brits should understand this better than the rest of us.

Many Thais cannot understand the Fallang....when you have the money to be the 'Big Man' why do you act so bleedin' cheap ?

You have to put everything into a cultural context. YOUR opinions don't amount to a pile of dog squat if you are attempting to live in another culture.

Yes.....Thai farmers don't tip.......Thai civil servants seldom tip unless they are trying to get laid for free, but you Fallangland folks are not Thais and are expected to substantiate your position on the Thai social ladder.

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand. The Thais gave us a degree of respect for being 'the big man' simply because we were 'white'. The Thais have since learned through experience that just because we are a Fallang we are not necessarily worthy of THEIR respect.

Being 'kee nee oh' does not make you one of the gang.......it undermines your 'value' in Thai society.

As for christians...they are simply misdirected and deserve no more respect than any fool is due..

...Ken

Great stuff! Don't know how true it is (except for the part about Christians, which I already knew), since I am brand new here and have no basis for independent judgment, but it has the ring and taste of truth, and I intend to keep it very much in mind as I learn my way around. Many thanks, Ken.

[Maejo Man]

Much better that a people read it for themselves then they can form their own opinion and not have it influenced by preaching

Well in that case I will remain forever ignorant of that particular passage, as I burnt my copy years ago

[Maejo Man]

And you with a christian symbol as a logo!!!!

It was a pagan symbol originally before the christians stole it to symbolise the crucifixion, and if you'd care to read back through my many posts you would also see why it is there.

[Ajarn]

Mi$$ionarie$ $uck (seen on a pickup truck in Chiang Mai).

What did you see, the sign or the missionaries?

This guy had a problem with missionaries messing with his Akha friends.

He was recently deported and blacklisted as persona non gratis.

That was not the reason he had problems.. He had problems with anyone- he is strictly a nutter.

[Maejo Man]

As I am a recent member I have not read all the many posts you have written but I apologise if you thought I was being offencive as I didn't intend too. It is just that to actually quote the Bible can seem like preaching to many and that is not something I want to do. As I said in my post maybe the missionaries have not read it -- Basically with out quoting it says that If we do good towards others then we are doing good on behalf of "God" -- I thing most religions have something very similar in their teachings

No offence taken I'm a firm believer in the basic teachings of all religions. in as much as they all preach that is is wrong to kill, steal, lie and bear false witness. If more people adhered to the basic teachings of their respective religions, the world would be a far better place than it is now. However, as long as we have extremists in any religion, this will never happen, a sad fact

[Oleg_Rus]

I'm a firm believer in the basic teachings of all religions. in as much as they all preach that is is wrong to kill, steal, lie and bear false witness.

Actually Chr**ty condamned this subjects ->

to kill - is very good, they kill all the time since the begining

steal - as inherit someone's property - surely, always. One apostle use to work as tax agent, and what did he do ? That's it

to lie - pls, it's called to be wise

false witness - change to "not to judge" at all

Well where are we now?

Mission ppl don't tip for different reason - they have excuse "NOT TO TIP" , like my friend always has excuse "NOT TO HELP" - he's busy, sleeping, f***ng, drinking and so. They have excuse NOT TO TIP - 'cos that money can go to better way

[Ajarn]

As I am a recent member I have not read all the many posts you have written but I apologise if you thought I was being offencive as I didn't intend too. It is just that to actually quote the Bible can seem like preaching to many and that is not something I want to do. As I said in my post maybe the missionaries have not read it -- Basically with out quoting it says that If we do good towards others then we are doing good on behalf of "God" -- I thing most religions have something very similar in their teachings

No offence taken I'm a firm believer in the basic teachings of all religions. in as much as they all preach that is is wrong to kill, steal, lie and bear false witness. If more people adhered to the basic teachings of their respective religions, the world would be a far better place than it is now. However, as long as we have extremists in any religion, this will never happen, a sad fact

I firmly agree with you...

But, lets not forget the extremists outside of religion, as there are many in Thailand

[Ajarn]

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand.

I disagree with this. Lets not forget how we hear about such things- through the media and friends. For those here for awhle, they'll have a larger number of friends, and anyone who was living here 15 years ago had NO internet... In my experience, there are around the same number of rapes/attacks/murders for the whole period...

[...Ken]

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand.

I disagree with this. Lets not forget how we hear about such things- through the media and friends. For those here for awhle, they'll have a larger number of friends, and anyone who was living here 15 years ago had NO internet... In my experience, there are around the same number of rapes/attacks/murders for the whole period...

Very pleased to see that you are doing well and we are still at odds.

Let me go back and edit that 'extremely rare' to reasonably rare. You must (?) agree that we had a level of status/respect , in the North, simply because of a commonly held Thai perception that we were of a 'class' apart/above from the average Thai. That perception developed prior to the influx of the great unwashed tourist explosion that started .....1990 (?) and ended, hmmmm...1992 ?

There was also the urban/rural belief that if a Fallang tourist was murdered by a Thai, the Gov't would demand retribution .......swift and mercilessly. Fallang were also protected by the Thai belief that our embassies would force vengeance upon those who committed the attack. We were simply too much trouble to kill. I know that this was the commonly held opinion in the late '80's. I believe that this commonly held belief was a part of tourism promotion by the Thai Government. They had to insure that tourists would know that they would be safe in Thailand.

I remember an altercation with a Hmong chap with a bush knife once. It was over teak of course.

I was able to prevail in this particular situation. Later, when I was trying to understand why the Hmong did not attack me it was explained that the Hmong believed that he could have won if we were on a level playing field...but because I was obviously born with so much luck to have grown large, to not have had my skin grow dark etc. that he thought that my obvious luck was an unfair advantage. Unfortunately.......our 'luck' now offers little tangible advantage in altercations.

Times have changed and the people have also.

It was safer 15 plus years ago...I believe.

...Ken

[Ajarn]

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand.

I disagree with this. Lets not forget how we hear about such things- through the media and friends. For those here for awhle, they'll have a larger number of friends, and anyone who was living here 15 years ago had NO internet... In my experience, there are around the same number of rapes/attacks/murders for the whole period...

Very pleased to see that you are doing well and we are still at odds.

Let me go back and edit that 'extremely rare' to reasonably rare. You must (?) agree that we had a level of status/respect , in the North, simply because of a commonly held Thai perception that we were of a 'class' apart/above from the average Thai. That perception developed prior to the influx of the great unwashed tourist explosion that started .....1990 (?) and ended, hmmmm...1992 ?

There was also the urban/rural belief that if a Fallang tourist was murdered by a Thai, the Gov't would demand retribution .......swift and mercilessly. Fallang were also protected by the Thai belief that our embassies would force vengeance upon those who committed the attack. We were simply too much trouble to kill. I know that this was the commonly held opinion in the late '80's. I believe that this commonly held belief was a part of tourism promotion by the Thai Government. They had to insure that tourists would know that they would be safe in Thailand.

I remember an altercation with a Hmong chap with a bush knife once. It was over teak of course.

I was able to prevail in this particular situation. Later, when I was trying to understand why the Hmong did not attack me it was explained that the Hmong believed that he could have won if we were on a level playing field...but because I was obviously born with so much luck to have grown large, to not have had my skin grow dark etc. that he thought that my obvious luck was an unfair advantage. Unfortunately.......our 'luck' now offers little tangible advantage in altercations.

Times have changed and the people have also.

It was safer 15 plus years ago...I believe.

...Ken

Just a differing opinion, obviously. But you are relying on your feelings it seems, rather than anything 'real'... Were you living here fulltime then?

I have always felt safe here.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Ajarn

[...Ken]

...Ken

Just a differing opinion, obviously. But you are relying on your feelings it seems, rather than anything 'real'... Were you living here fulltime then?

I have always felt safe here.

My opinions are based on my personal experiences and anecdotal reports from those around me, within a 50 mile radius of Chieng Dao.

Yes, I was living in the wife's village and building up our small farm.

I believe the difference in experiences results from the environments lived in. When your next Fallang neighbour is 50 km away you tend to become more enmeshed in Thai daily life than in Chiengmai. The other rural living expats in our district had very similar experiences to mine.

I believe it goes back to social heirarchy. There are always dominant Thai characters about and if you are an oddity in the social fabric they will seek you out and expect you to acknowledge their position. Most of us have problems with that and that is where the challenges usually begin.

...Ken

[chownah]

Why don't Christian Missionaries Tip.....sorry I haven't been able to nail that down to save my soul!!!!

hahahhahahahahahah

Edit: Isn't someone makeing a corny joke and then LAUGHING ABOUT IT really tacky?.....man it is endemic on the News Clipping section especially in the political topics

Edited July 30, 2006 by chownah

[Rasseru]

The other rural living expats in our district had very similar experiences to mine.

And what about the non-living ones? Similar but less fortunate?

[Ajarn]

My opinions are based on my personal experiences and anecdotal reports from those around me, within a 50 mile radius of Chieng Dao.

Yes, I was living in the wife's village and building up our small farm.

I believe the difference in experiences results from the environments lived in. When your next Fallang neighbour is 50 km away you tend to become more enmeshed in Thai daily life than in Chiengmai. The other rural living expats in our district had very similar experiences to mine.

You are telling me that you have lived in Chiang Dao fulltime for the last 15 years? That doesn't make sense to me...

And what does living in Chiang Mai have to do with it? I disagree with your assessment of the differences between Chiang Mai people and others... I don't think Thai daily life is less of an issue than it is for anyone else. And the other farangs and Thais I know in your area certainly don't feel the same as you...

[warfie]

I worked for tips for many years and American Jewish people - in general - are some of the most generous tippers around. I don't know about Israelis.

A lot of African Americans are quite demanding and don't tip at all and it causes a lot of resentment from people who are not racist, but don't like to serve other people without being paid properly for it.

Shouldn't the 'paying properly' bit be the responsibility of their employer rather than their customers?

I agree whole heartedly. "properly paid" for a job done to the required specifications is the responsability of the employer. A tip is earned if the job is performed above expectations.

[uptheos]

No offence taken I'm a firm believer in the basic teachings of all religions. in as much as they all preach that is is wrong to kill, steal, lie and bear false witness.

Sorry, but you need to read the Koran.....carefully and uninterpreted.

[tom21]

i do not read Aribic so i can not read the Koran.

[cm-happy]

I have no doubt what UG says is true about dining out frequently and the wait staff tellling him that these customers are demandng and cheap charlies ie no tip. But has he observed this personally? Or relyng on what the wait staff tell him.

I'm not defending the cheap charlies but perhaps the wait staff have an axe to grind, because of the customers demanding nature and their dinning in large groups which can be difficult for them to handle.

How does UG or wait staff know that they are Missionaries, unless he or they have overheard their conversations about saving souls or converting the heathens. Or do they wear huge religious medallions around their necks, drive around in station wagons or vans emblazoned with their church affiliation?

One poster had a good suggestion about automatically adding 15/20% service charge to the bill which could be overlooked on the checkbin to the regular customers who regularly tip anyway.

Anyway, I always tip not To Insure Prompt service but just as a token of appreciation for good service and food.

This is going to be an interesting thread

[Ulysses G.]

How does UG or wait staff know that they are Missionaries, unless he or they have overheard their conversations about saving souls or converting the heathens. Or do they wear huge religious medallions around their necks, drive around in station wagons or vans emblazoned with their church affiliation?

This is actually a very old thread, but it was easy to tell they were missionaries. They were eating in very big groups in Sojo's restaurant (almost all the customer were Christians at this time) and they would pray before eating and talk about the Lord a lot while eating their meals. I noticed that these large groups ran the staff ragged, but would add no tip at the end of the meal and I asked the wait staff how they felt about this and they shared their feelings.

I was actually trying to cover up that I had heard the manager of another resteraunt that was frequented by large groups of missionaries at that time complaining about them not tipping, but I didn't want to hurt his business, so I tried to take the focus off of just one or two places.

I don't think that the missionaries are frequenting either of these places any more. Perhaps they have moved out to the new Sojo's which I think is closer to where they live and bigger than the one near the Night Market.

I have given up on Sojo's because they got rid of the great breakfast menu completely and pretty much everything I liked on the lunchtime menu as well.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[siam-i-am]

I don’t know for sure if it is legal but I imagine it would be legal to post a sign that stated 15% added automatically to the bill of missionaries. At any rate if I open up a restaurant in Chiang Mai I would post such a sign. If nothing else it would get me some good publicity.

now that would work.

Would get my custom anyway! I should imagine the KKKryschunz would avoid you like the plague, but others flock to show their support. (You would have to serve good food though )

I don't know about missionaries but the concept you suggest here is pure idiocy. There is basically no tipping in Thailand, leaving a few baht or loose change is not really the same as tipping 15 - 20%

I take issue with this. Historically it is true, however in the last fifteen to twenty years or so tipping has become the expected norm in most restaurants above roadside noodle vendor class.

As an aside, I have seen staff in one restaurant follow a customer to hand back a small tip with the comment that if the customer can't afford more, they need the money more than the staff member does! This would certainly never have happened if tipping was not expected.

I applauded.

You applauded! Did it occur to you that the person may have had a meal or service below par, or was maybe short of funds? Of course you did how silly of me to think otherwise. If the member of staff was savvy enough to return the tip, why haven't they found a job that pays what they thing their worth and not the charity of others. Don't blame mean customers when the biggest scrouge is the employer for not paying them a decent wage in the first place, and that goes for restaurants world wide. I don't tip my dentist receptionist or car mechanic. I'm actually a generous tipper when the service or food is better than expected, but will not be brow beaten in to tipping everytime I have a cup of coffee. By the way ask any restaurant owner if they only want customers who tip judging by the empty tables they would be glad of anyone Christian, Jews, Buddhist, ...well ok Christian, Buddhists.

[Rasseru]

I applauded.

You applauded!

Yes, evidently he did . . . all of one and a half years ago.

[siam-i-am]

I applauded.

You applauded!

Yes, evidently he did . . . all of one and a half years ago.

So that's what 2006-06-02 means, you've obviously got a Thai PHD in calendar reading, or it's equivalent, give the guy a coconut.

[jumnien]

When a black guy steals a TV, it's always reported as a black guy. When a Christian tips poorly, it's always about the Christian. When will the world refer to theives and cheapskates as theives and cheapskates instead of demeaning ethnic and religious groups.

[Ulysses G.]

The point of the thread was supposed to be that certain (not all) missionaries are here living it up in a way that few of us can afford - big houses with servants, health clubs, expensive restaurants 3 times a day - but they can't even give a pittance to the poor Thais who have to work and take care of them.

How Christian is that?

Edited January 6, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[jumnien]

The point of the thread was supposed to be that certain (not all) missionaries are here living it up in a way that few of us can afford - big houses with servants, health clubs, expensive restaurants 3 times a day - but they can't even give a pittance to the poor Thais who have to work and take care of them.

How Christian is that?

Well, the atrocities in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia over the last few decades carried out by buddhists weren't particularly "buddhist" either; what's the point, that humans are capable of hypocrisy?