Crushdepth Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Oh god #facepalm Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 This is pointless.... you guys only draw info from anews aarticle. ... thats not an arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And my expertise is not on herbal treatment. ... im a nematologist and microbiologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And as I stated several times I dont recommend herbal remedies. .. I recommend research to find the active ingredient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Then you find the drugs method of action.... then you develop drugs with better efficacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Breakbone fever is no fun. Would hate to see a child with it. Currently no known vaccine or cure so whats the harm in trying this? If people think there is a treatment, they may not take enough prophylaxis precautions. Duh! I usually would not even respond to anyone who uses the expression, "Duh"; however, there currently is no prophylaxis except mozzie repellant and its not being used by most Thais who think different spices in their food are a preferred method. Furthermore, there are several types of biting mosquitos and insects that still cause discomfort if not Dengue so there is no reason to expect what you suggest. Other mechanical methods like mosquito netting will also continue to be used for the same reason, it blocks out more than just the Aedes mosquito. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphad Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And as I stated several times I dont recommend herbal remedies. .. I recommend research to find the active ingredient I do recommend herbal remedies and have been using them for 40 years. you talk of research..well guess who does the research..? drug companies. They are not going to do research on a plant's properties to solve a medical problem.. first the cost of the research..and then people would take the herbal medicine & not the expensive drug. Where you think aspirin came from?.. all drugs have plant extracts..& usually added chemical stuff that isn't good for your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Post Edited July 2, 2014 by ClutchClark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Iphad.... drug companies do research on plant properties. ... as do univerities... and the government. ... they just develop them into drugs... then make similar compounds with higher affinity or less toxicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphad Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Iphad.... drug companies do research on plant properties. ... as do univerities... and the government. ... they just develop them into drugs... then make similar compounds with higher affinity or less toxicity ok some ie... burns to your skin...get an aloe vera plant....yeah you can go to the drug store & buy antibacterial cream....are Drug companies gonna research aloe vera then tell the public yeah the aloe vera from the plant works better & cheaper than the antibacterial cream you buy? I had sever case of "hayfever"...I take stinging nettles plant as a tincture or capsules..end of hayfever...is research going to do studies on "Stinging Nettles"?...or they gonna sell you stuff at the drug store that isn't effective & has side effects. Taking marijuana for glaucoma,epileptic seizures, eases the pain of multiple sclerosis & many more medical benefits. Anyways there are many medical benefits from plants... just because there is none or little research on them by drug companies shouldn't be a surprise. Most research in Universities is supported by the drug companies as it happens there is no known cure for dengue fever....& homeopathy has proved in many live cases to be effective. So your solution to is wait until the West comes up with a drug? If I had a broken leg I would go to a doctor.. when doctors offer me a drug I usually refuse. Most elderly people are on average of 5-8 drugs daily...this is causing early deaths or early dementia & a myriad of other problems. Get educated...you might live longer. Edited July 2, 2014 by iphad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I would say that companies have researched aloe vera already and created creams that I can store alot longer and easily store for long periods of time. and the antibacterial cream is to stop infection it wont soothe the skin. Id say marijuana hasnt been researched due to it being schedule 1 in usa... and it does have some side effects... lol.... many good... some bad.... and for dengue I would focus on prevention and vector control but I would try the plant in question along with the current standard of care. I would not consider how I felt a reflection on whether or not the plant worked.... I still wouldn't know.... maybe placebo or maybe it even hurt me.... I prefer not to be the ginnie pig if possible... and currently there is no solution. ... only research. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partington Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 2. Don't google homeopathy and dengue.... thats not how science papers are written. ... we are way more specific than that. You write the specific drug and we look for specific results. You can try google scholar and try the plant or the extract.... 3. I gave specific citations. ... if you can't find them with that info you have no idea how to look up scientific papers.... gives you the title author year printed and journal. ... and your not even qualified to read or understand them. I used PubMed, not Google (and said so in my post) to try to find the papers you have given inadequate or no citations to. I don't use Google to find scientific literature - no one in research does. As you are one of those people who do not read or reply to specific points or question raised in posts which answer yours, it's difficult to have a conversation about these matters. Let me try to tell you again: you have NOT given correct or complete citations for many of the sources you quote. I know how to look up references. These are your complete "citations" for the homeopathy paper I wanted you to give the link to, followed by one on the vaccine. No journal name, no date, no page or volume number! Comparative Clinical Study on the Effectiveness of Homeopathic Combination Remedy with Standard Maintenance Therapy for Dengue Fever Syed Saeed-ul-Hassan1, Imran Tariq1*, Ayesha Khalid2 and Sabiha Karim1 Protective efficacy of the recombinant, live-attenuated, CYD tetravalent dengue vaccine in Thai schoolchildren: a randomised, controlled phase 2b trial Prof Arunee Sabchareon MD a, Dr Derek Wallace MB BS b , Chukiat Sirivichayakul MD a, Kriengsak Limkittikul MD a, Pornthep Chanthavanich MD a, Saravudh Suvannadabba MD c, Vithaya Jiwariyavej MD d, Wut Dulyachai MD d, Prof Krisana Pengsaa MD a, T Anh Wartel MD e, Annick Moureau MS f, Melanie Saville MB BS f, Alain Bouckenooghe MD b, Simonetta Viviani MD f, Nadia G Tornieporth MD h, Jean Lang MD g I mentioned this before. I won't go into the scientific rationale of "not providing a paper against this plant extract" because as you know from your vast scientific experience it is up to people making claims for efficacy to prove them , not the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The link does not provide one example of where homeopathy was used as a pro-actiive vaccination that resulted in death. So, therefore, the link is not applicable to the OP. But it is applicable to your question: "what's the harm?" I showed that reliance on homeopathic remedies can result in serious harm and/or fatality, which is the exact question you posed. If I had wanted to reply to a specific point in the OP, I would have quoted the relevant part. This attempt to use "homeopathy" is a "trial run" to see if it has any effect. You are saying that any money spent on "trials" is a waste. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. How many more trials do we need to confirm that distilled water has no medicinal value? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Ebsco or google scholar..... google scholar will search many databases.... and you have an auhor title and more.... at unc chapel hill nc state univ of new hampshire and ghent university (belgium) ive seen plenty of use of google scholar.... then you are redirected to a publishing company such as elsevier and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pubmed requires the author or publisher post his citation and abstract there. And im npt talking about distilled water.... for the laat time.... this is dumb.... I have published peer reviewed work and you haven't. ... you can't find papers with an author and title.... and use a wek excuse like I wont use google scholar (not google)..... and you probably wont have access to them anyways because it cost money or your university needs to pay for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 But here is what you type in..... eupatorium perfoliatum. .. that will give you a few studies.... I don't care to hold your hand to find more.... I dont know the other stuff in solution. ... and the major claim made was that the thais have no scientific basis for using this plant.... and once again I reiterate because you ignore"the solution used was not overly diluted as you claim" I saw it. I make no claims about homeopathy it is a silly word and your focus on it is unwarranted AND I DO NOT CLAIM IT PREVENTS DENGUE AND NEVER HAVE....I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST THAT IT MAY HAVE ANTIINFLAMMATORY EFFECTS ACCORDING TO THE AUTHORS of the papers I posted. Your arguments avoid any of my claims and your excuse is you cant find papers given authors and titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Your argument was it does nothing. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Your argument was it does nothing. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partington Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Pubmed requires the author or publisher post his citation and abstract there. And im npt talking about distilled water.... for the laat time.... this is dumb.... I have published peer reviewed work and you haven't. ... you can't find papers with an author and title.... and use a wek excuse like I wont use google scholar (not google)..... and you probably wont have access to them anyways because it cost money or your university needs to pay for it.... The fact that you wont post links when repeatedly requested doesn't inspire confidence in your integrity - you have spent more posts refusing this information than it would take simply to post it. You also make claims about the original article-that it is not really about homeopathy- but you have provided no evidence or corroboration for this claim. We probably wont get any more out of this discussion unless you are a bit more open about the sources for the inside knowledge you say you have about the the treatment described in the original article, and are a little less defensive when challenged. (Incidentally, it's a bit unwise to claim that you know whether someone who is a complete stranger to you has published peer-reviewed articles or not! Hint: I worked for 30 years as a research biochemist.) Edited July 2, 2014 by partington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942211000525 eres a link on science direct of one article... maybe it will lead you to others Ive wasted too much time on this.... have fun.... I tried to give people some actual data since you and others only mock thais and others and do not add anything constructive... if you wanted to find data you would... if you don't want to find good data.... you wont.... you simply made a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partington Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942211000525 eres a link on science direct of one article... maybe it will lead you to others Ive wasted too much time on this.... have fun.... I tried to give people some actual data since you and others only mock thais and others and do not add anything constructive... if you wanted to find data you would... if you don't want to find good data.... you wont.... you simply made a choice Article nothing to do with anything discussed, except that it mentions the same plant. I'm beginning to understand that you are not really being sincere here, so I'll say good bye too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What evidence can I post... steal a sample and mail it to you? I don't control a journalist.... you quote data from a non peer reviewed source and take it to be true.... I cant give you data they haven't published yet and won't for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 My only claim is the plant has effects... your claim is it has none.... im refuting your claim it is magic water that has no effect.... im on a phone in a village with no wifi.... a pain in the ass to find things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 So your claim: magic water and has no effect my claim: it has effects only point was to say it is more than magic water any paper will do to refute magic water claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874111004053 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874107002036 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0975357513000217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And I didn't see in the op any concentrations listed or a methodology... id like to have something to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe you can help me find the methodology... I am not able to....thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlancaster Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Ok I see the op conc.... yes I agree that is low.... what I saw had a slight scent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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