Teacher work permit & visa getting cancelled

[taiwanatoa]

I am a 59 year-old U.S. citizen. My American boss and his Thai wife run a small private English school

where I have been teaching part-time for almost a year. We signed a contract in October and they finally got

my visa & work permit. We had quite a few discussions over the months concerning my failure to successfully

adapt to his strange teaching methods. Anyway, yesterday he said he had decided to give me my 2 week

notice before firing me. (In the contract it said there would be a mutual 1 month advance notice given by

either one of us. But he's the rich one with the power).

My question is this:

He says that he has to have them cancelled immediately within 2 days of my last day of employment for tax

purposes,and that the government is very strict about these things. And he says they will probably give me

only a few days to get out of the country.

Does anyone have information or advice about this?

Thanks in advance.

[TerryLH]

Do you have a visa from a consulate outside of Thailand or an extension of stay from an immigration office?

If a visa, it's good until the expiration date.

If an extension from an immigration office, it ends the day your employment ends.

"And he says they will probably give me only a few days to get out of the country."

You will not get any extra days to get out unless you get a 7 day extension from an immigration office. 1900 baht.

[Tomtomtom69]

Well just ask when the exact date of termination is and using company documents obtained, go in to immigration and get your visa cancelled, leave across an international border (to Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Myanmar or somewhere else) no later than the employment termination effective date (you have to leave the same day as the employment termination effective date or earlier) and you can come straight back, but on a tourist visa waiver or you could obtain a tourist visa and come back with that to tie you over in the meantime while you look for a new job. A 7-day extension is also available for 1900 Baht, but it's generally not worth obtaining this as you could use that 1900 Baht towards doing a visa run to the nearest border and coming straight back with a 15 or 30 day visa waiver, depending on your nationality.

[digitalchromakey]

The first question is are you on a 90 day visa entry(based on a visa obtained outside of Thailand) or an Extension of Permission to Stay (obtained from your local Thai Immigration Dept)?

1) If you are on a 90 day visa entry then losing your job does not affect your visa/ 90 dayentry in any way.

2) If you are on an extension of permission to stay based on working as a teacher then your extension ends the day your employment ends.

If it is case 2) then you must cancel your current extension and then can at best for 1900 THB get a 7 day extension which gives you a littlle time to get things in order before you go to the border.

Go to the border and then as an American, you can turn straight around and re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry, or go to a nearby consulate to apply for a 60 day Tourist Visa (extendeable by 30 days withyin Thailand).

Also go see Labour, your boss owes you one salary period of notice plus 30 day severance pay (employed < 1 year but > 120 days). Labour have a good record of chasing employers who try to cheat employees out of due redundancy payments.

[Maroon Watcher]

... so you cant teach Thai kids?

(You need to learn about armchair teaching)

Or teaching in the private sector is Not armchair teaching

(You need to learn how to be a Trainer - Not a lecturer)

... you don't get on with your American boss? So much so he is only giving you 2 weeks to get out of town...?

It's never too late to learn...

If you want to stay -
go on the teacher forum for advice on keeping a teaching job in Thailand

(Especially after 60...)

Then follow the rules - as above.

Exit come in as Tourist - get job (Set-up before you go?)

Then apply for permit (Probably have to exit again and come back in as a teacher...)

Then follow the school rules - you are not the boss...

Good Luck

Keep Calm

[NomadJoe]

The first question is are you on a 90 day visa entry(based on a visa obtained outside of Thailand) or an Extension of Permission to Stay (obtained from your local Thai Immigration Dept)?

1) If you are on a 90 day visa entry then losing your job does not affect your visa/ 90 dayentry in any way.

2) If you are on an extension of permission to stay based on working as a teacher then your extension ends the day your employment ends.

If it is case 2) then you must cancel your current extension and then can at best for 1900 THB get a 7 day extension which gives you a littlle time to get things in order before you go to the border.

Go to the border and then as an American, you can turn straight around and re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry, or go to a nearby consulate to apply for a 60 day Tourist Visa (extendeable by 30 days withyin Thailand).

Also go see Labour, your boss owes you one salary period of notice plus 30 day severance pay (employed < 1 year but > 120 days). Labour have a good record of chasing employers who try to cheat employees out of due redundancy payments.

That may change again at any moment, if it hasn't already.

March 18th, 2014:

"Now, however, Immigration has announced that anyone arriving in Thailand across a land border will receive only 15 days. This will not apply to the first arrival in Thailand, whether by land or air, but will apply for subsequent arrivals by road or rail."

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-clampdown-coming-on-multiple-tourist-visa-runs-45216.php

[NomadJoe]

The first question is are you on a 90 day visa entry(based on a visa obtained outside of Thailand) or an Extension of Permission to Stay (obtained from your local Thai Immigration Dept)?

1) If you are on a 90 day visa entry then losing your job does not affect your visa/ 90 dayentry in any way.

2) If you are on an extension of permission to stay based on working as a teacher then your extension ends the day your employment ends.

If it is case 2) then you must cancel your current extension and then can at best for 1900 THB get a 7 day extension which gives you a littlle time to get things in order before you go to the border.

Go to the border and then as an American, you can turn straight around and re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry, or go to a nearby consulate to apply for a 60 day Tourist Visa (extendeable by 30 days withyin Thailand).

Also go see Labour, your boss owes you one salary period of notice plus 30 day severance pay (employed < 1 year but > 120 days). Labour have a good record of chasing employers who try to cheat employees out of due redundancy payments.

That may change again at any moment, if it hasn't already.

March 18th, 2014:

"Now, however, Immigration has announced that anyone arriving in Thailand across a land border will receive only 15 days. This will not apply to the first arrival in Thailand, whether by land or air, but will apply for subsequent arrivals by road or rail."

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-clampdown-coming-on-multiple-tourist-visa-runs-45216.php

[ubonjoe]

The first question is are you on a 90 day visa entry(based on a visa obtained outside of Thailand) or an Extension of Permission to Stay (obtained from your local Thai Immigration Dept)?

1) If you are on a 90 day visa entry then losing your job does not affect your visa/ 90 dayentry in any way.

2) If you are on an extension of permission to stay based on working as a teacher then your extension ends the day your employment ends.

If it is case 2) then you must cancel your current extension and then can at best for 1900 THB get a 7 day extension which gives you a littlle time to get things in order before you go to the border.

Go to the border and then as an American, you can turn straight around and re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry, or go to a nearby consulate to apply for a 60 day Tourist Visa (extendeable by 30 days withyin Thailand).

Also go see Labour, your boss owes you one salary period of notice plus 30 day severance pay (employed < 1 year but > 120 days). Labour have a good record of chasing employers who try to cheat employees out of due redundancy payments.

That may change again at any moment, if it hasn't already.

March 18th, 2014:

"Now, however, Immigration has announced that anyone arriving in Thailand across a land border will receive only 15 days. This will not apply to the first arrival in Thailand, whether by land or air, but will apply for subsequent arrivals by road or rail."

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-clampdown-coming-on-multiple-tourist-visa-runs-45216.php

It has not gone into effect and it may never happen.

You left this line out of your quote that to me is a bit of a disclaimer.

A Phuket Immigration officer told The Phuket News they knew about the new rule, but that it is not yet being applied, and they are not sure just when it will be.

[Tomtomtom69]

The first question is are you on a 90 day visa entry(based on a visa obtained outside of Thailand) or an Extension of Permission to Stay (obtained from your local Thai Immigration Dept)?

1) If you are on a 90 day visa entry then losing your job does not affect your visa/ 90 dayentry in any way.

2) If you are on an extension of permission to stay based on working as a teacher then your extension ends the day your employment ends.

If it is case 2) then you must cancel your current extension and then can at best for 1900 THB get a 7 day extension which gives you a littlle time to get things in order before you go to the border.

Go to the border and then as an American, you can turn straight around and re-enter Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry, or go to a nearby consulate to apply for a 60 day Tourist Visa (extendeable by 30 days withyin Thailand).

Also go see Labour, your boss owes you one salary period of notice plus 30 day severance pay (employed < 1 year but > 120 days). Labour have a good record of chasing employers who try to cheat employees out of due redundancy payments.

That may change again at any moment, if it hasn't already.

March 18th, 2014:

"Now, however, Immigration has announced that anyone arriving in Thailand across a land border will receive only 15 days. This will not apply to the first arrival in Thailand, whether by land or air, but will apply for subsequent arrivals by road or rail."

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-clampdown-coming-on-multiple-tourist-visa-runs-45216.php

It has not gone into effect and it may never happen.

You left this line out of your quote that to me is a bit of a disclaimer.

A Phuket Immigration officer told The Phuket News they knew about the new rule, but that it is not yet being applied, and they are not sure just when it will be.

The OP is American and will get 30 days upon returning. When I replied to this thread the first time, I didn't read the part about him being a US citizen but I did correctly advise that as soon as the extension is cancelled, it is possible to leave and come back immediately with a fresh 15/30 day stay - in his case 30 days.

Unless one can secure new employment within the 7 day extension period given (or they are permanently leaving the country and 7 days is enough time to pack your belongings etc.) there is little reason to use the 7 day extension. Simply get yourself ready to leave, just for a border run as soon as the extension is cancelled. You then come back in with a new visa waiver or tourist visa, which allows you to stay a while. I did exactly that a few weeks ago when my job ended - I cancelled my extension and left for Cambodia the same day. Paying 1900 Baht knowing that the chances of being offered the paperwork to get a new extension based on a new job within 7 days were slim, I needed more time to arrange my affairs. Consequently, paying for something that does little to extend your stay in Thailand when you know you have to leave anyway is pointless. Leave the country (Thailand isn't that big and there is a border crossing somewhere, within just a few hours drive of almost anywhere in the country) and then come straight back, even the same day.

I still can't understand the jist of that silly article, but even if it were applied one must realize that the OP would be coming back to Thailand on his FIRST tourist visa waiver after ending employment. How long he has been in Thailand on previous non-B's or other visa types is irrelevant. The cycle has been broken and like nearly everyone else, he will be eligible for numerous tourist visas and visa waivers to tie him over while he looks for new work or plans to do something else (such as possibly leave Thailand permanently) without attracting suspicion. Best would be to go out for a double entry TR in Vientiane or Savannakhet in Laos.

[ubonjoe]

If a person is doing things the way they should be done by going to immigration to cancel their extension the 7 day extension would be good because it might be hard to leave on the same day you cancel the extension.

[Tomtomtom69]

If a person is doing things the way they should be done by going to immigration to cancel their extension the 7 day extension would be good because it might be hard to leave on the same day you cancel the extension.

Yes true but I found out that you don't have to leave the day you get the cancellation done, but rather, the effective date of termination mentioned on the company termination letter. If you get the documents required say 1-2 weeks before the effective termination date, then there is no reason to wait until the last day to go to immigration. Go in whenever you have time before the date of termination, and the date you have to leave will be from the date mentioned on the letter, which could be 1-2 weeks or more ahead of when you go in. If however, you happen to only arrive at immigration on the effective date of termination, it might be difficult to leave the same day without getting a 1-week extension, although if you have your own car and arrive in the morning, there's usually enough time to get to a border sometime in the afternoon.

It was this incorrect advice about needing to leave on the same day you go to immigration, as opposed to the date mentioned on your letter, that caused me untold stress when I went in on the day before the effective date of termination specified in the letter - I even tried to rush immigration along to process my paperwork more quickly (not a good idea) and had planned to drive to the Cambodian border and grab a taxi to Phnom Penh from the border all on the same day. It worked out in the end and I did indeed make it to Phnom Penh from Bangkok overland in one day, but it was unnecessary to go through all of that. Immigration even told me I could have come in a few days earlier as the stamp they gave me allowed me to stay until the following day anyway.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[rct99q]

Is your contract a fixed term or open ended contract. Not to make a big point of it, but there are special rules that apply for each in how an employee is released and possible severance pay. Unless of course you have shown an extreme cause for being fired.

Fixed term normally has a begin and end date stated in the contract if it includes wording such as "by mutual agreement parties agree to one months notice...." then the courts have established this would interpreted as an open contract in which case advanced notice would be required and severance pay may be involved.

Open ended contract are as they state open ended.

[PhillyBoy]

Has anyone suggested that he leave and re-enter with a Tourist 60 day Visa, then later apply for a Non O and Retirement Visa. If he is only teaching part-time and he is 59 he might be eligible to do it that way. At least that is what I did.

[Keoni]

Hello all,

Regarding the 30 day or 15 day visa at the border:

I am an American. I just did a border run to Poipet earlier this week. I came back into Thailand the same day I exited. The immigration officer did make angry faces, and gave me a lecture about the tourist visa...blah, blah, blah.

He seemed to reluctantly give me the 30 day stamp, but told me that next month they would not give me another 30 day visa. MAYBE they would give me 15 days. And last month I came in through the airport, not a border crossing. This was my first border crossing - not my 3rd or 4th consecutive border crossing.

This was just earlier this week, so even at a little border crossing like Poipet, the immigration officers seem to have been instructed to be more alert looking for people with multiple border crossings to renew their stay.

My experience occurred only a few days ago - so be aware, it may not be as easy as making a quick border run (as it was in the past) as some posters have indicated.

Good luck

Edited March 22, 2014 by Keoni

[recom273]

Maybe you should ask some advice in the teaching forum about going to the labour tribunal, you should get your 4 weeks severance.

I have been on the other end a couple of times over the years, walking away to take other jobs, and employers have been pretty quick to quote the contract, refusing to pay a couple of weeks salary or return illegal deposits. Its irritates me when I hear stories like yours, seems like these language school / agency owners win all the time.

I gather its not such a hard process, and the tribunal will often side with the employee, regardless of influence / money.

Good luck with everything.

[Tomtomtom69]

Hello all,

Regarding the 30 day or 15 day visa at the border:

I am an American. I just did a border run to Poipet earlier this week. I came back into Thailand the same day I exited. The immigration officer did make angry faces, and gave me a lecture about the tourist visa...blah, blah, blah.

He seemed to reluctantly give me the 30 day stamp, but told me that next month they would not give me another 30 day visa. MAYBE they would give me 15 days. And last month I came in through the airport, not a border crossing. This was my first border crossing - not my 3rd or 4th consecutive border crossing.

This was just earlier this week, so even at a little border crossing like Poipet, the immigration officers seem to have been instructed to be more alert looking for people with multiple border crossings to renew their stay.

My experience occurred only a few days ago - so be aware, it may not be as easy as making a quick border run (as it was in the past) as some posters have indicated.

Good luck

Maybe this is related to the thread on this topic from thephuketnews.com or that Aranyprathet/Poipet was mentioned as one of the crossings where officials have been instructed to crack down on multiple border runs. How many stamps do you have in your passport from coming in via air, particularly in recent times (seeing you mentioned this was your first overland border crossing)?

Aranyaprathet is one of the busiest Thai border crossings from a foreign country, it's not just a "little border crossing". Sometimes hundreds of people (foreigners that is) cross at any one time, particularly when a Russian tour group comes through.

If you don't want to be grilled as much, try crossing at a smaller crossing where there are few foreigners - try Ban Laem, Ban Pakkard, or Phu Nam Ron (for Myanmar) etc.

I had to do a couple of visa runs before I sorted out my visa and every time I went to a different Cambodian crossing. Aranyaprathet/Poipet is definitely the worst and you can lose a lot of time just at the border alone (usually only on the Thai side)

[Tomtomtom69]

Has anyone suggested that he leave and re-enter with a Tourist 60 day Visa, then later apply for a Non O and Retirement Visa. If he is only teaching part-time and he is 59 he might be eligible to do it that way. At least that is what I did.

I mentioned getting a TR, even a double entry, just in case more time is needed. The retirement visa is a very good idea for staying long term. I think what the OP needs is something better than a visa exempt stay to tie him over in the meantime, but leaving and re-entering for a 30-day visa exempt entry is OK for figuring out what to do as having to leave on the date of termination of employment (or within 7 days if an extension is applied for) is not enough time to sort out matters. Either way, a visa run is required.

[Keoni]

Hello all,

Regarding the 30 day or 15 day visa at the border:

I am an American. I just did a border run to Poipet earlier this week. I came back into Thailand the same day I exited. The immigration officer did make angry faces, and gave me a lecture about the tourist visa...blah, blah, blah.

He seemed to reluctantly give me the 30 day stamp, but told me that next month they would not give me another 30 day visa. MAYBE they would give me 15 days. And last month I came in through the airport, not a border crossing. This was my first border crossing - not my 3rd or 4th consecutive border crossing.

This was just earlier this week, so even at a little border crossing like Poipet, the immigration officers seem to have been instructed to be more alert looking for people with multiple border crossings to renew their stay.

My experience occurred only a few days ago - so be aware, it may not be as easy as making a quick border run (as it was in the past) as some posters have indicated.

Good luck

Maybe this is related to the thread on this topic from thephuketnews.com or that Aranyprathet/Poipet was mentioned as one of the crossings where officials have been instructed to crack down on multiple border runs. How many stamps do you have in your passport from coming in via air, particularly in recent times (seeing you mentioned this was your first overland border crossing)?

Aranyaprathet is one of the busiest Thai border crossings from a foreign country, it's not just a "little border crossing". Sometimes hundreds of people (foreigners that is) cross at any one time, particularly when a Russian tour group comes through.

If you don't want to be grilled as much, try crossing at a smaller crossing where there are few foreigners - try Ban Laem, Ban Pakkard, or Phu Nam Ron (for Myanmar) etc.

I had to do a couple of visa runs before I sorted out my visa and every time I went to a different Cambodian crossing. Aranyaprathet/Poipet is definitely the worst and you can lose a lot of time just at the border alone (usually only on the Thai side)

Yes TomTomTom69, I mentioned this here because many people posting were suggesting how a simple visa run could solve the problem.

The recent articles/stories you mentioned, along with my account of my own very recent experience are simply offered to suggest that making borders runs may not be the easy solution that it has been for so many for so long.

I simply offered it as a warning that current policies/practices at the border may be in fact changing.

As for me, I have many stamps in my passport from all over. In October 2012 I made a one day border run to Poipet. In December 2012 I took the train to Vientiane and stayed for a few days to get my Non-B visa. Since then I've flown to the US a few times. I stopped working recently and when my non-B expired, I flew to Vietnam to visit a friend and flew back. Then the following month, I flew back to the US again for almost 3 weeks and arrived back in Thailand in mid February. That brings us to my border run to Poipet earlier this week.

I haven't been working illegally. I've been relaxing on vacation getting my things in order before moving on to a new job in another country. Now while I have the time off work, I hope to travel a bit around Thailand to see some of the places I still haven't gotten to yet. I also may make another trip to Cambodia since I still haven't seen Angkor Wat yet either.

Hopefully the people at immigration will allow me to continue my vacation and travels within Thailand before I have to move on to my new job.

I meant no offense by referring to Poipet as "a little border crossing". In Thailand I've only been to the crossings into Poipet and Vientiane. Compared to the popular border crossings we see in the US, those are both rather small. Below is a link to a photo of a border crossing between the US and Mexico.

http://www.noozhawk.com/images/uploads/630-Border.jpg

[Tomtomtom69]

Hello all,

Regarding the 30 day or 15 day visa at the border:

I am an American. I just did a border run to Poipet earlier this week. I came back into Thailand the same day I exited. The immigration officer did make angry faces, and gave me a lecture about the tourist visa...blah, blah, blah.

He seemed to reluctantly give me the 30 day stamp, but told me that next month they would not give me another 30 day visa. MAYBE they would give me 15 days. And last month I came in through the airport, not a border crossing. This was my first border crossing - not my 3rd or 4th consecutive border crossing.

This was just earlier this week, so even at a little border crossing like Poipet, the immigration officers seem to have been instructed to be more alert looking for people with multiple border crossings to renew their stay.

My experience occurred only a few days ago - so be aware, it may not be as easy as making a quick border run (as it was in the past) as some posters have indicated.

Good luck

Maybe this is related to the thread on this topic from thephuketnews.com or that Aranyprathet/Poipet was mentioned as one of the crossings where officials have been instructed to crack down on multiple border runs. How many stamps do you have in your passport from coming in via air, particularly in recent times (seeing you mentioned this was your first overland border crossing)?

Aranyaprathet is one of the busiest Thai border crossings from a foreign country, it's not just a "little border crossing". Sometimes hundreds of people (foreigners that is) cross at any one time, particularly when a Russian tour group comes through.

If you don't want to be grilled as much, try crossing at a smaller crossing where there are few foreigners - try Ban Laem, Ban Pakkard, or Phu Nam Ron (for Myanmar) etc.

I had to do a couple of visa runs before I sorted out my visa and every time I went to a different Cambodian crossing. Aranyaprathet/Poipet is definitely the worst and you can lose a lot of time just at the border alone (usually only on the Thai side)

Yes TomTomTom69, I mentioned this here because many people posting were suggesting how a simple visa run could solve the problem.

The recent articles/stories you mentioned, along with my account of my own very recent experience are simply offered to suggest that making borders runs may not be the easy solution that it has been for so many for so long.

I simply offered it as a warning that current policies/practices at the border may be in fact changing.

As for me, I have many stamps in my passport from all over. In October 2012 I made a one day border run to Poipet. In December 2012 I took the train to Vientiane and stayed for a few days to get my Non-B visa. Since then I've flown to the US a few times. I stopped working recently and when my non-B expired, I flew to Vietnam to visit a friend and flew back. Then the following month, I flew back to the US again for almost 3 weeks and arrived back in Thailand in mid February. That brings us to my border run to Poipet earlier this week.

I haven't been working illegally. I've been relaxing on vacation getting my things in order before moving on to a new job in another country. Now while I have the time off work, I hope to travel a bit around Thailand to see some of the places I still haven't gotten to yet. I also may make another trip to Cambodia since I still haven't seen Angkor Wat yet either.

Hopefully the people at immigration will allow me to continue my vacation and travels within Thailand before I have to move on to my new job.

I meant no offense by referring to Poipet as "a little border crossing". In Thailand I've only been to the crossings into Poipet and Vientiane. Compared to the popular border crossings we see in the US, those are both rather small. Below is a link to a photo of a border crossing between the US and Mexico.

http://www.noozhawk.com/images/uploads/630-Border.jpg

Good point, all border crossings between Thailand and other countries are small compared to the USA! Another thing you'll quickly spot is the lack of vehicles crossing between Thailand and Cambodia, particularly between Poipet and Aranyaprathet. Basically only 2 or 3 cars cross between the two countries each day. That's the result of dumb Cambodian officials who for some reason don't want to follow the terms of the GMS transport agreement meaning you have to get permission to take your car across in advance, or do what some people on TV have recommended and avoid Cambodian customs!

Even though Laos and Malaysia along with Thailand do follow these agreements, the few hundred vehicles that cross the border between Thailand and these other two countries daily is a far cry from the US-Mexico or US-Canada borders. A far, far cry.

[taiwanatoa]

Thanks for the replies.

If I only had the money, I would simply get a retirement visa.

Alas, I am a poor man.

[taiwanatoa]

Has anyone suggested that he leave and re-enter with a Tourist 60 day Visa, then later apply for a Non O and Retirement Visa. If he is only teaching part-time and he is 59 he might be eligible to do it that way. At least that is what I did.

You do have to have proof of your wealth in order to obtain a retirement

visa,do you not?