Gonsalviz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I actually was never taught nor read about counter steering. It was something I picked up after experimenting driving down the highway with my KZ400 at 100mph and noticed that if I pushed slightly on the left bar the bike went left and vice versa. I carried that over to corners and was more comfortable after this discovery. I just assumed all bike riders have the feel of it after driving long enough. Trust me, not all rider get this. Many try to ride outside their envelope and panic. This is a mistake. Mods please remove. Edited March 22, 2014 by Gonsalviz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonsalviz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I grew up tearing through the desert and saltbush chasing kangaroos to shoot. Don't ever remember countersteering. Maybe it is just a coffee table topic for you city kids that can't actually ride. From what I remember of doing this In Saudi Arabia (no Kangaroos), you spend most of the time on the rear wheel. Counter steering is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 "Again it's very important to keep your body parallel with the bike when you shift your weight. Don't only shift your bottom, your arms and upper body must come over too. Again whole body PARALLEL with the bike." I am not comfortable with that description. The upper body isn't parallel to the bike. Your leaning the bike and staying upright by swivelling at the hips. Your lower body stays with the lean of the bike. Staying parallel with the bike is what one does when leaning the bike into a curve without counter steering. Agree with you on this.. Back in late 60's early 70's when i was 'playing around racing' on a BSA Gold Star this was indeed the technique It was normal then to keep your body parallel to the bike at all times, including hard cornering,and you were taught to ride tidy ..ie you never even stuck a knee out on a high speed corner,let alone hang off it... you kept it so body and bike always looked to be one and the same. Obviously counter steering happened as it is normal, but i remember being told to only 'use body english' to control the bike...pressure on the sides of the gas tank from the knees being the main one AFAIR..worked for sure at the time, but things were a lot less sophisticated then than now . Dunlop Triangular Tyres were the tyre of choice then and because of their triangular profile you literally fell into a corner with very little input of your own.You were either up right vertical or over to the flat of the tyre..not much in between...a weird feeling..$(KGrHqV,!rcFDu1!rkbBBRMM8wJJ3g~~60_35.JPG The front tyre on the right shows the profile which remained much the same when inflated.. Well that's something I never knew. Triangular tires. They must have caused a lot of accidents? Thanks for giving me some background on yourself now I understand you a lot better. I was always a car guy. I had a Hillman Hunter GLS when I was 18 and used to rally it. It had overdrive on 3rd and 4th gears (only four gears then!) and twin carbs. Since then I've had lots of fast cars including top end Italians. I've ridden bikes for over 20 years but only got the fast bike bug about 5 years ago, and I'm glad I saved my biking days for later life, otherwise I don't think I would have been around to enjoy them. When I get into something I do it 100% and try to find out everything about it - obsession! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I grew up tearing through the desert and saltbush chasing kangaroos to shoot. Don't ever remember countersteering. Maybe it is just a coffee table topic for you city kids that can't actually ride. Been said before, i''ll bet but your nic is obviously very appropriate..especially the last 6 letters huh.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Here's a detailed explanation of the process: http://www.examiner.com/article/counter-steering-revisited-redux-how-it-works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The rider in the pic is 'backing it in' and steering with the rear- that goes beyond simple counter-steering, and is often the result of a good rider showing off or a poor rider getting into the corner too hot (occasionally resulting in a high side)- it's usually not the fastest way around a track unless you're on a dirt bike or supermoto. You used to see it more in MotoGP (famously by Gary McCoy), but with improved tires and clutches it's not as prevalent today.Agreed, that's trail breaking in the photo.Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Talking about horrible tyres....my dads Bessa Bantam had rubber like this! Bloody horrible!!! Of course I am going back 45 years or so! And I wasn't complaining about them then.....even though they where as old (older) as I was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Talking about horrible tyres....my dads Bessa Bantam had rubber like this! Bloody horrible!!! Of course I am going back 45 years or so! And I wasn't complaining about them then.....even though they where as old (older) as I was! CropperCapture63.jpg Yes tyres were mostly very basic not sure if this is one but a common one was called a Dunlop Universal.. On a bantam all they really had to do was to keep the rims off the road ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Here's a detailed explanation of the process: http://www.examiner.com/article/counter-steering-revisited-redux-how-it-works Thats all very well and good and interesting re the physics of counter steering, but please try and understand that you don't need to know all this tech stuff. FACT; if anyone is already riding any motorcycle/scooter at a speed of 15-20 kph and up they are already counter steering..probably without realising it or even thinking about it . As i said in an earlier post ;it is physics at work and is about the only control technique that is done instantly and without any concious thought or action. It does not need to be thought about at all...by the laws of physics it just happens...forget about it mate.. Concentrate on the myriad of other things that you can actually practice and control to improve your riding skills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Here's a detailed explanation of the process: http://www.examiner.com/article/counter-steering-revisited-redux-how-it-works Thats all very well and good and interesting re the physics of counter steering, but please try and understand that you don't need to know all this tech stuff. FACT; if anyone is already riding any motorcycle/scooter at a speed of 15-20 kph and up they are already counter steering..probably without realising it or even thinking about it . As i said in an earlier post ;it is physics at work and is about the only control technique that is done instantly and without any concious thought or action. It does not need to be thought about at all...by the laws of physics it just happens...forget about it mate.. Concentrate on the myriad of other things that you can actually practice and control to improve your riding skills "you don't need to know all this tech stuff" I have to disagree with you there. Yes, you don't need to know all this tech stuff when you are riding along most times. But that one time when you need to swerve suddenly to avoid a pothole or a dog running across the road etc, knowing about countersteering is the difference between grabbing the brakes and hoping for the best or safely negotiating the hazard. Similarly when entering a curve too hot or too tight - you need to know about countersteering to avoid drifting into the opposite lane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Here's a detailed explanation of the process: http://www.examiner.com/article/counter-steering-revisited-redux-how-it-works Thats all very well and good and interesting re the physics of counter steering, but please try and understand that you don't need to know all this tech stuff. FACT; if anyone is already riding any motorcycle/scooter at a speed of 15-20 kph and up they are already counter steering..probably without realising it or even thinking about it . As i said in an earlier post ;it is physics at work and is about the only control technique that is done instantly and without any concious thought or action. It does not need to be thought about at all...by the laws of physics it just happens...forget about it mate.. Concentrate on the myriad of other things that you can actually practice and control to improve your riding skills Of course we do some by instinct but at least you need to know the fact that you are doing counter steering . a good rider has to be aware of physics, dynamics of a bike etc so some tech stuff needed to be known 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Here's a detailed explanation of the process: http://www.examiner.com/article/counter-steering-revisited-redux-how-it-works Thats all very well and good and interesting re the physics of counter steering, but please try and understand that you don't need to know all this tech stuff. FACT; if anyone is already riding any motorcycle/scooter at a speed of 15-20 kph and up they are already counter steering..probably without realising it or even thinking about it . As i said in an earlier post ;it is physics at work and is about the only control technique that is done instantly and without any concious thought or action. It does not need to be thought about at all...by the laws of physics it just happens...forget about it mate.. Concentrate on the myriad of other things that you can actually practice and control to improve your riding skills "you don't need to know all this tech stuff" I have to disagree with you there. Yes, you don't need to know all this tech stuff when you are riding along most times. But that one time when you need to swerve suddenly to avoid a pothole or a dog running across the road etc, knowing about countersteering is the difference between grabbing the brakes and hoping for the best or safely negotiating the hazard. Similarly when entering a curve too hot or too tight - you need to know about countersteering to avoid drifting into the opposite lane. Similarly when entering a curve too hot or too tight - you need to know about countersteering to avoid drifting into the opposite lane. What?? Jeez i'd hate to be out on a ride with some of you guys..fair go! EDIT..as gsxrnz said #9.. Riders are constantly adjusting their lean during a turn through on/off counter steering and weight shift, and the adjustments are so intuitive that they really are just part of riding. Basically the same as i am trying to say to you...its automatic... Edited March 24, 2014 by andreandre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thats all very well and good and interesting re the physics of counter steering, but please try and understand that you don't need to know all this tech stuff. FACT; if anyone is already riding any motorcycle/scooter at a speed of 15-20 kph and up they are already counter steering..probably without realising it or even thinking about it . As i said in an earlier post ;it is physics at work and is about the only control technique that is done instantly and without any concious thought or action. It does not need to be thought about at all...by the laws of physics it just happens...forget about it mate.. Concentrate on the myriad of other things that you can actually practice and control to improve your riding skills "you don't need to know all this tech stuff" I have to disagree with you there. Yes, you don't need to know all this tech stuff when you are riding along most times. But that one time when you need to swerve suddenly to avoid a pothole or a dog running across the road etc, knowing about countersteering is the difference between grabbing the brakes and hoping for the best or safely negotiating the hazard. Similarly when entering a curve too hot or too tight - you need to know about countersteering to avoid drifting into the opposite lane. Similarly when entering a curve too hot or too tight - you need to know about countersteering to avoid drifting into the opposite lane. What?? Jeez i'd hate to be out on a ride with some of you guys..fair go! EDIT..as gsxrnz said #9.. Riders are constantly adjusting their lean during a turn through on/off counter steering and weight shift, and the adjustments are so intuitive that they really are just part of riding. Basically the same as i am trying to say to you...its automatic... I think you misunderstand. One doesn't have to be riding fast to go into a corner a bit too hot or tight. If you imagine riding from Pai to MHS, there are hundreds of switchbacks, both up and downhill. Sure, you can ride gingerly around them which might be the right choice on scooters for eg but the reason for having a sportsbike is to be able to "attack" the curves a bit more. This is when conscious countersteering could be the difference between taking the right line or drifting dangerously close to the edge or centerline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DualSportBiker Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 IMHO the best place to learn to counter steer is on a straight, wide road. Once over 30mph, and riding in the middle of the road, gently push the bar away - which side is up to you. Get comfortable with the effect in both directions and then try in a corner. When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... Ride safe. Sent - how is not that important... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 IMHO the best place to learn to counter steer is on a straight, wide road. Once over 30mph, and riding in the middle of the road, gently push the bar away - which side is up to you. Get comfortable with the effect in both directions and then try in a corner. When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... Ride safe. Sent - how is not that important... When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 IMHO the best place to learn to counter steer is on a straight, wide road. Once over 30mph, and riding in the middle of the road, gently push the bar away - which side is up to you. Get comfortable with the effect in both directions and then try in a corner. When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... Ride safe. Sent - how is not that important... When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... You are a strange one. First you said you won't want to ride with me when I'm arguably one of the safest group riders you will ever meet (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712164-road-trip-where-the-wind-blows-me-to/page-2). But then you go on to say that you ride with no hands!!! I think I would rather not ride with you. Considering your claimed competency, I cannot believe that you would advise other riders that they do not need to know about counter steering and just rely on intuition. I think that's very bad advise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreandre Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 IMHO the best place to learn to counter steer is on a straight, wide road. Once over 30mph, and riding in the middle of the road, gently push the bar away - which side is up to you. Get comfortable with the effect in both directions and then try in a corner. When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... Ride safe. Sent - how is not that important... When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... You are a strange one. First you said you won't want to ride with me when I'm arguably one of the safest group riders you will ever meet (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712164-road-trip-where-the-wind-blows-me-to/page-2). But then you go on to say that you ride with no hands!!! I think I would rather not ride with you. Considering your claimed competency, I cannot believe that you would advise other riders that they do not need to know about counter steering and just rely on intuition. I think that's very bad advise. Obviously comprehension is not your forte..If you want to have a go at me ..get it right.. . Yes, i said you do not need to know the theory/phyics of countersteering...it just happens as are the physics of cornering a bike..you must know that..no? Thats how bikes work..basically you cannot corner without countersteer being the main contributer..Thats Fact!![apart from huge body engish input and thats not smooth efficient method at all]... You don;'t have to think about it..it occurs naturally <deleted>! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... You are a strange one. First you said you won't want to ride with me when I'm arguably one of the safest group riders you will ever meet (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712164-road-trip-where-the-wind-blows-me-to/page-2). But then you go on to say that you ride with no hands!!! I think I would rather not ride with you. Considering your claimed competency, I cannot believe that you would advise other riders that they do not need to know about counter steering and just rely on intuition. I think that's very bad advise. Obviously comprehension is not your forte..If you want to have a go at me ..get it right.. . Yes, i said you do not need to know the theory/phyics of countersteering...it just happens as are the physics of cornering a bike..you must know that..no? Thats how bikes work..basically you cannot corner without countersteer being the main contributer..Thats Fact!![apart from huge body engish input and thats not smooth efficient method at all]... You don;'t have to think about it..it occurs naturally <deleted>! No, I'm not having a go at you, why should I bother? But you are being very inconsistent in what you are saying. You opined that it's not necessary to know the theory and physics behind counter steering, as it's INTUITIVE (it will not be intuitive in an emergency situation, especially when riding sports bikes). You then express horror at riders like me that states that occasionally, we might enter a corner a bit too hot and too tight. You subsequently go on to say that you are quite comfortable to ride one handed and even no handed, situation permitting, just by using body English. I put it to you that while you may be an accomplished rider, you are one heck of a dangerous instructor. p/s: regarding body English, you might want to read Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code - you will see how efficient (or inefficient as the case may be) body English actually is in STEERING a bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... You are a strange one. First you said you won't want to ride with me when I'm arguably one of the safest group riders you will ever meet (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712164-road-trip-where-the-wind-blows-me-to/page-2). But then you go on to say that you ride with no hands!!! I think I would rather not ride with you. Considering your claimed competency, I cannot believe that you would advise other riders that they do not need to know about counter steering and just rely on intuition. I think that's very bad advise. Obviously comprehension is not your forte..If you want to have a go at me ..get it right.. . Yes, i said you do not need to know the theory/phyics of countersteering...it just happens as are the physics of cornering a bike..you must know that..no? Thats how bikes work..basically you cannot corner without countersteer being the main contributer..Thats Fact!![apart from huge body engish input and thats not smooth efficient method at all]... You don;'t have to think about it..it occurs naturally <deleted>! p/s: regarding body English, you might want to read Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code - you will see how efficient (or inefficient as the case may be) body English actually is in STEERING a bike. you can download his dvd if reading a book is too long for you by torrent on some sites........ well worth watchinig -you can not steer a motorcyle using your bodyweight as many people seem to believe but keith will prove otherwise .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Andre, Everyone including myself has done their best to converse with you as a gentleman but you really have lost the plot. First you argued with RSD about the benefits of NOT wearing a helmet and now you are professing the benefits of riding a bike with no hands and telling everyone they don't need to learn. Everything is instinctive and if you can't do it automatically you're an idiot. Well I have an IQ over 160 and have to think everytime I enter a corner. If you are such a great rider how come your name isn't in lights? I started this post to try to help inexperienced riders understand the physics of motorbikes but you don't believe in physics. My post is not perfect as other riders have pointed out but it has created awareness. Just p$$s off and stay away from my posts in the future and ride with no hands and no helmet to your heart's content. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Explaining the physical mechanism of how a bike changes direction at speed can alarm new riders. Especially when you tell them the bike needs to be counter steered to change direction once you are at a reasonable speed where centrifugal forces are coming into play. Albeit this will become intuitive with experience and developing your road craft. Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Explaining the physical mechanism of how a bike changes direction at speed can alarm new riders. Especially when you tell them the bike needs to be counter steered to change direction once you are at a reasonable speed where centrifugal forces are coming into play. Albeit this will become intuitive with experience and developing your road craft. Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk Agreed, but telling people they don't need a helmet and to practice steering with no hands? Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have removed a post containing a flame and a profanity. No more of this please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 IMHO the best place to learn to counter steer is on a straight, wide road. Once over 30mph, and riding in the middle of the road, gently push the bar away - which side is up to you. Get comfortable with the effect in both directions and then try in a corner. When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... Ride safe. Sent - how is not that important... When i was first working on my active steering technique I rode one-handed for around 50km in the MHS loop after a day and a half in deep dust near Khun Yuam. Massive confidence boost as a result. Highly recommend picking a road you know well, a gear that will suit, and just riding with your left hand on your tank/tank bag, or behind your back. It worked wonders for me... At last, someone posting a sensible bike riding practice...i ride a huge amount of the time , one handed and a lot no handed[down a 5-10klm winding canyon type good road is great]... Fast enough 30-80kph for gyroscopic effect to keep you stable and using only minor rear brake pressure to control speed when needed and huge amounts of "body-engish" to follow the bends in the road. Always being ready to grab the bars if needed, but seldom do. A great way to really get to know your bikes characteristics under and a great control/confidence booster as well. Wish you had been on this thread..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710618-phuket-expat-dies-in-motorbike-smash/ I came in at #27... where i was dealing with yet another '<deleted>'or two.. who argued only how dangerous this is [and we were only debating one handed..he would have gone away crying to his mummy if i had told him about no-hands... Safety is in the hands of the beholder. i realise, but anything at all that made me more confident and therefore a better, more competent rider, i did and still do... what a nonsense. What is the relation with riding no handed and counter steering? please stop posting these kind of bs dangerous advises here. You sound like a ten years old boy my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Explaining the physical mechanism of how a bike changes direction at speed can alarm new riders. Especially when you tell them the bike needs to be counter steered to change direction once you are at a reasonable speed where centrifugal forces are coming into play. Albeit this will become intuitive with experience and developing your road craft. Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk It may be intuitive but that is not a good reason for not explaining what counter steering is and more importantly, what it does. Like most on this forum, I have been riding two wheelers since I was knee high to a grasshopper. However, my light bulb moment came when I learnt about counter steering. I was able to lean into corners with a lot more stability and confidence as I knew a lot better what I was actually doing. A second but smaller light bulb moment came when I read that it was even better to use both hands for CS (ie pull with one and push with the other). It was a lot less effort than just pushing with the one hand and also a lot more controlled. I think that if new riders were taught CS from the beginning, there would be a lot less accidents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Please allow me to put this Intuition nonsense to rest. First the Oxford English Dictionary explanation: The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning. Secondly the origin of the word: Late Middle English (denoting spiritual insight or immediate spiritual communication): from late Latin intuitio(n-), from Latin intueri 'consider'. What you are getting Intuition confused with is Experience, no one including Rossi has a spiritual experience with his bike. Even though it may look that way sometimes. I am sure he could ride his bike while standing on his head and juggling a beach ball with his feet. That is not Intuition it is experience coupled with a tremendous ability to understand the physics required. That's why Rossi and his mates have no need for ABS, Traction control etc. F1 and Moto GP teams have physicists calculating the maximum speed attainable through corners on different circuits with different tires etc. I'm also a golfer but pro-golfers have expert caddies to map the greens for them and they know at what time of the day, according to the Sun what type of angle the grass is going to be angled at. This minute attention to detail makes the difference between winners and losers. Experienced riders have a feel for their bike. They know how far they can push it, but put them on a different bike and a large part of that "Intuition" is lost. You see it time and time again when pro-riders change teams. So countersteering, accelerating through corners, weight shifting, backing in, wheelies etc. is taught but is improved upon with Experience. Eienstien did disprove some of Newton's Laws but not all of them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Explaining the physical mechanism of how a bike changes direction at speed can alarm new riders. Especially when you tell them the bike needs to be counter steered to change direction once you are at a reasonable speed where centrifugal forces are coming into play. Albeit this will become intuitive with experience and developing your road craft. Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk It may be intuitive but that is not a good reason for not explaining what counter steering is and more importantly, what it does. Like most on this forum, I have been riding two wheelers since I was knee high to a grasshopper. However, my light bulb moment came when I learnt about counter steering. I was able to lean into corners with a lot more stability and confidence as I knew a lot better what I was actually doing. A second but smaller light bulb moment came when I read that it was even better to use both hands for CS (ie pull with one and push with the other). It was a lot less effort than just pushing with the one hand and also a lot more controlled. I think that if new riders were taught CS from the beginning, there would be a lot less accidents. Please tell me where at all in my post did I say ...that it is not a good reason for not explaining what countersteering is... perhaps my post wasn't indepth enough. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS1 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Explaining the physical mechanism of how a bike changes direction at speed can alarm new riders. Especially when you tell them the bike needs to be counter steered to change direction once you are at a reasonable speed where centrifugal forces are coming into play. Albeit this will become intuitive with experience and developing your road craft. Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk this is true, ive been met with dumbfounded looks when trying to explain. after a few weeks-months they finally start to get it, but not until they are comfortable with riding in their own style first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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