Nong Khai as a place to settle. Good Idea ?

[rct99q]

Good thread just came across it today. Firstly Simon something has opened gh and hotels in Phuket! I am sure you may have noticed Nong Khai is not Phuket. I have lived here going on some 6 or so years and worked in several hotel/GH in town. Currently there are way too many rooms. many locals with deep pockets are opening up what ever they can in the event the AEC brings lots of guests to Nong Khai......aint gooing to happen.

Meeting Place is closed and has been for quite some time. The Thai owners are locals with again deep pockets who own and operate several bars, restaurants, and guest houses in town. It is used mostly as a drop in for friends and family of the owners.

land is expensive. My 3 rai of land used to go for 200,000baht is now priced at 800,000baht and I am out of town. There have been maybe 15 new hotels built in the past 12-18 months all have been less than 50 % occupancy.

Mutmee is running at 30% occupancy currently and is one of the most popular gh in town. Budsabong Fine Resort which boasts rooms at 4,400 or there abouts yesterday had 1 guest.

Beer bars. after the string of bars near Brendans burnt down 2 months ago everybody was dying to open a bar. Currently there seems to be one bar for every expat that lives here. The string of bars by the ST apartments are strung out most nights with 22 to 3 people.....Brendans morning traffic is dying off, Ozzie Alley has turned over 13 places in the last 12 months with different owners. Some full timers still around but not many.

There is not a Thai male in town that does not own a VIP van doing some sort of business to Vientiane. it is however expensive to run vehicles across the bridge. Most 15 passenger vans cost 1,000-1,200 just in fees....then there is insurance and driver fee....etc. Along with that there is the tuk-tuk mafia which is not as militant as in the south but they protect their business. Very difficult business to get into if they sniff a farang in the mix.

just the facts of Nong Khai...pleasant twon but for doing business not a good place to hook up. i can think of a few places recently that have opened up with a farang in the middle of it.....Jing Jok pizza place (dying a slow death I think) but decent food and nice people, Smile Bar keeping their heads above the poverty line, any number of the bars along Ozzie Alley these days seems to have different owners in every couple of months, new coffee shop near the hornbill book store - struggling, the list is short...

Long stay exceptions are the two bakeries German bakery and Scandinavian bakery, Brendans, Mut Mee, Manchester Arms (but the owner is looking to sell), Chilis Bar (thai runs it, English money), Carston Travel (20 years i think) can't think of too many others.

The good locations in town are all owned by 3 or 4 Thai families, from the Siri Guest House to the end of Tasadet Market....under a long term lease agreement with the City signed 40 or 50 years ago. It is virtually impossible to rent anything without paying a high fee. Example jing Jok pizza and guest house is a rental. The current owners paid about 300,000 baht for just the spot and pay a monthly rent of about 25,000baht. Pizza joint and 3 guest rooms. You need to be full pretty much everyday to make any money and between May and October it gets very quiet here......very.

Good luck, it is a pleasant place to live.....doing business here is very difficult. But give it a try.

Business I have seen and failed

Travel Agencies - not enough business from expats and Thais won't use you if there is a farang involved

Bookstore - see above

Restaurants - see above with some exceptions

Hotels / GH - see above with some exceptions

[Benmart]

Family a 3 hour drive away by the way

Not to worry. Online banking can transfer money for loans instantly.

Humorous,? Maybe.

Useful? That's questionable.

Thoughtless factor. 5

[rumbo1]

Also, I don't know how it will affect Nong Khai but does anyone know when the rail link from China to Singapore will be complete?

The small (98 Sq meter) land I saw on the river and quite central was priced at 7 million baht.

Over priced for sure but it could be a sign.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The rail link is a very big "if". All I can say is that re-visiting NK a couple of years after the bridge had opened it had appeared to hit the tourist trade quite a bit, it had become a transit point rather than a destination in itself. The town itself had grown considerably but it seemed that most of the tourist trade was passing straight through to Laos then.How much trade there is now for a GH is something that only boots on the ground can judge.

I've been living in nong khai 7 months now and it appears there's quite a lot of expats living here but not to many tourists . Competition is very high among bars and guest houses as there is more supply than demand. It's a great place to settle but a bit of gamble in my opinion to try and compete against the many already established businesses even if you're only trying to cover the running costs.

Why not come here on holiday for a month and get a feel of the place before thinking about starting a small business ?

[Bangkok45]

I am living in Bangkok now and married to an Isaan girl from Nongkhai. Do have some land parcels, too.

Have been pondering on the idea of developing a guesthouse (am in the hospitality business, btw) and visa run services, perhaps.

Send me a PM with contact number and let's brainstorm over a coffee or a beer

[rct99q]

I am living in Bangkok now and married to an Isaan girl from Nongkhai. Do have some land parcels, too.

Have been pondering on the idea of developing a guesthouse (am in the hospitality business, btw) and visa run services, perhaps.

Send me a PM with contact number and let's brainstorm over a coffee or a beer

The city is littered with Visa Run Services as well. From the bridge up until the new Tesco Express there must 30 "travel" agencies offering this service. AYA visa runners operate out of Chiang Mai and are one of the few that seem to be doing okay. They run their buses hard and fast though. If you have business contacts in Laos it could help as mentioned earlier it is very expensive to take vehicles across the bridge. I know of very few people who do this....why! Unless you charge about 2,000baht for this service you lose money. And there is just not enough people willing to pay 2,000 baht to get into Laos when you can do it yourself for less than 500baht!

if for no other reason than to just up and open a GH to keep your self occupied then no issue. If looking to make any level of profit I am not sure how one would do it. The new river bank project which is no mostly completed makes it easier for people to walk from Wat Taat to almost the base of the friendship bridge and all along the way there are GH's. It is a very tough business here. As mentioned in my previous statement you need to run 100% occupancy during December through April to have any chance of lasting out the very slow months. September runs you about 5% occupancy, seriously.

It can be a long two months (october aint that great either) without any cash flow.

Not bursting any bubbles but Nong Khai is not the same as Chiang Mai, or south. Even a little town likje Sangkhom who up till about 4 or 5 years ago had one decent GH (Buoys, run by a wonderful Thai couple), there are now 10 or 12 all virtually the same.....and all losing money!

[crazydrummerpauly]

I spent a lot of time in Nong Khai in the 80s and early 90s, there was a fun guesthouse near the river run by a Thai woman who's now living in That Phanom, name began with n, ( the memory's going), Mutmee guesthouse used to be run by a Swiss woman who sold it to Julian, he had a Thai wife and child but the child got sick.

In my view it's a great place for those who love the small town atmosphere, enough to do but small enough for everyone to be friendly.The promenade is nice at dusk too.

I don't know who runs Mutmee guesthouse now but for sure they have a great location, next to the river, I heard my only ghost in Thailand there, used to be a graveyard for the nearby hospital, but it would be hard to compete with them.

As for restaurants, there are a few farang eateries and the number of tourists is not so high, thank god.

If the OP wants to make money I recommend he buys some land and plants sugar cane, etc but if neither he nor his Thai wife are inclined to farming but he wants something to do, then part time teaching may be the best option.

And yes, this choo choo sounds like a complete prick.Hopefully he'll never grace northern Issan.

Julian STILL running MutMee - same wife - sick child now a very nice teenager after 1,000s + 1,000s of pounds worth of heart-ops back in the UK. Nong Khai has EXPLODED since you were here - hundreds maybe thousands of EMPTY ROOMS due to the incredible number of new guest-houses and hotels built in the just the past 5 years. And so many Thai eating-places and a few Farang ones already - it would be tough to get another one really working well. On the other hand, there IS English-teaching often available - i know many guys & gals doing just that without any work-permits - including full-time - but the salaries up here are not like those heard about in BKK - maybe 20 - 25,000 Bt a month for full-time. By the way - the promenade has also expanded dramatically and now stretches all the way past MutMee towards the Friendship Bridge to Laos. In the past year, NK has acquired its own mini 'red light' district around the 'White Inn' hotel, but in general it is dull (in a safe way), predictable, and non-touristy - and pretty cheap for accommodation and food. EG: 2-bed concrete house with 1 air-con, small garden and space for car etc - 6,000 Bt a month.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Good thread just came across it today. Firstly Simon something has opened gh and hotels in Phuket! I am sure you may have noticed Nong Khai is not Phuket. I have lived here going on some 6 or so years and worked in several hotel/GH in town. Currently there are way too many rooms. many locals with deep pockets are opening up what ever they can in the event the AEC brings lots of guests to Nong Khai......aint gooing to happen.

Meeting Place is closed and has been for quite some time. The Thai owners are locals with again deep pockets who own and operate several bars, restaurants, and guest houses in town. It is used mostly as a drop in for friends and family of the owners.

land is expensive. My 3 rai of land used to go for 200,000baht is now priced at 800,000baht and I am out of town. There have been maybe 15 new hotels built in the past 12-18 months all have been less than 50 % occupancy.

Mutmee is running at 30% occupancy currently and is one of the most popular gh in town. Budsabong Fine Resort which boasts rooms at 4,400 or there abouts yesterday had 1 guest.

Beer bars. after the string of bars near Brendans burnt down 2 months ago everybody was dying to open a bar. Currently there seems to be one bar for every expat that lives here. The string of bars by the ST apartments are strung out most nights with 22 to 3 people.....Brendans morning traffic is dying off, Ozzie Alley has turned over 13 places in the last 12 months with different owners. Some full timers still around but not many.

There is not a Thai male in town that does not own a VIP van doing some sort of business to Vientiane. it is however expensive to run vehicles across the bridge. Most 15 passenger vans cost 1,000-1,200 just in fees....then there is insurance and driver fee....etc. Along with that there is the tuk-tuk mafia which is not as militant as in the south but they protect their business. Very difficult business to get into if they sniff a farang in the mix.

just the facts of Nong Khai...pleasant twon but for doing business not a good place to hook up. i can think of a few places recently that have opened up with a farang in the middle of it.....Jing Jok pizza place (dying a slow death I think) but decent food and nice people, Smile Bar keeping their heads above the poverty line, any number of the bars along Ozzie Alley these days seems to have different owners in every couple of months, new coffee shop near the hornbill book store - struggling, the list is short...

Long stay exceptions are the two bakeries German bakery and Scandinavian bakery, Brendans, Mut Mee, Manchester Arms (but the owner is looking to sell), Chilis Bar (thai runs it, English money), Carston Travel (20 years i think) can't think of too many others.

The good locations in town are all owned by 3 or 4 Thai families, from the Siri Guest House to the end of Tasadet Market....under a long term lease agreement with the City signed 40 or 50 years ago. It is virtually impossible to rent anything without paying a high fee. Example jing Jok pizza and guest house is a rental. The current owners paid about 300,000 baht for just the spot and pay a monthly rent of about 25,000baht. Pizza joint and 3 guest rooms. You need to be full pretty much everyday to make any money and between May and October it gets very quiet here......very.

Good luck, it is a pleasant place to live.....doing business here is very difficult. But give it a try.

Business I have seen and failed

Travel Agencies - not enough business from expats and Thais won't use you if there is a farang involved

Bookstore - see above

Restaurants - see above with some exceptions

Hotels / GH - see above with some exceptions

Good well-informed post - been here about the same time - the only thing i'd question is whether Jing Jok pizza is 'dying a slow death' - been there a couple of times recently and they were struggling to cope with demand from regulars. Good food, nice people - hope they survive ! (I heard that the German Bakery (Rudi) is to close btw.)

[jinners]

I was thinking of Nong Khai for retirement with a small business. Recently went there again to look at some land we have in the city but my wife could'nt find it .

I like the place close to Lao and seems to have reasonable eating holes and restaurants and markets and not too busy.

The only thing is it's a long way from Bangkok and it seems to get a bit cold for a couple of months of the year.

so when its cold you go to warm er weather and when you return your business will pick up right where it left off.....................lol.

such utter businessminded people here!

As susie ORMAN would say-DENIED~

You know I was told if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all is better. I know that might not apply all the time on TV, but the OP is looking for feedback, not smart arse piss taking.

[Maggusoil]

Nong Khai is very nice. A bit old worldy. Not too many bars when I last looked. I have a Thai/ Australian friend who has resettled their with his own hotel. It is well located with an Immigration office and a Friendship bridge for visas and "used" to have an international airport.

I am not sure why they ended that, but there is a reasonably good hospital there too. Only about an hour to the airport in Udon Thani.

[Benmart]

I was thinking of Nong Khai for retirement with a small business. Recently went there again to look at some land we have in the city but my wife could'nt find it .

I like the place close to Lao and seems to have reasonable eating holes and restaurants and markets and not too busy.

The only thing is it's a long way from Bangkok and it seems to get a bit cold for a couple of months of the year.

so when its cold you go to warm er weather and when you return your business will pick up right where it left off.....................lol.

such utter businessminded people here!

As susie ORMAN would say-DENIED~

You know I was told if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all is better. I know that might not apply all the time on TV, but the OP is looking for feedback, not smart arse piss taking.

I agree with you. I don't know if some of the posts are made out of boredom, attempts at humor or are chemical/liquid induced. Regardless, they seem poorly though out, uncivil and if said in person, most likely would result in a severe response from the recipient.

Perhaps the reason such remarks are made on this forum is a lack of moral and physical courage by the writter. Just a thought.

[Frank James]

Nong Khai is a lovely small city. If I didn't love CM so much I would live there. Bound to get a whole lot bigger and much busier in years to come. Only drawback: Seems much more humid than N. Thailand. However, I could look at that magnificent big river for hours on end.

Business? Who knows.

[rct99q]

Nong Khai is very nice. A bit old worldy. Not too many bars when I last looked. I have a Thai/ Australian friend who has resettled their with his own hotel. It is well located with an Immigration office and a Friendship bridge for visas and "used" to have an international airport.

I am not sure why they ended that, but there is a reasonably good hospital there too. Only about an hour to the airport in Udon Thani.

Curious?? Where was this airport?

[Chai67]

ASEAN may improve the Nong Khai economy. Real estate speculation has already increased land value. Import/export may be something of interest to you. I personal don't like dealing with unreasonable people and scammers. Electricity is fairly inexpensive compared to the US so I mine crypto currency instead. There is fiber optic access to the Internet here if you're into technology.

[Maggusoil]

Nong Khai is very nice. A bit old worldy. Not too many bars when I last looked. I have a Thai/ Australian friend who has resettled their with his own hotel. It is well located with an Immigration office and a Friendship bridge for visas and "used" to have an international airport.

I am not sure why they ended that, but there is a reasonably good hospital there too. Only about an hour to the airport in Udon Thani.

Curious?? Where was this airport?

That's why I used ". . . . . ". I am not sure.

Likewise to other posters, it did have a reputation as a great place to die, or at least to get ready for it. That's retirement isn't it?

Only joking. I wouldn't be in the area at all if it wasn't for the family.

I have not asked my friend how his hotel is going lately and haven't been there for a couple of years.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I don't do loans.

Anything constructive to add?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I like that haha. just wait, it won't be a loan it will be a gift. This people have talent

[simon43]

Simon also had to flee to Burma to escape two ex-wives that own those businesses while stealing his money.

A slight exaggeration there. For the hotels in question, I was 50% owner and was able to sell my half-share. Nowadays, I am happily divorced and spend my time between teaching in Myanmar and running small hotels/guesthouses without any spousal involvement...

Getting back on topic, Mutmee is certainly in a good location. There is also the Rim Kong road on the east side of town where I previously rented a shophouse for 20,000 baht/month - nice location for a guesthouse if you also provide cheap transport to the railway station and NK immigration by the bridge.

The best advice I can give about a guesthouse business is NOT to rent an existing building on a short lease, but to long-lease a suitable land plot for say 20 years, paying nothing 'up-front' and only paying a small rent per month. A half-rai plot should cost you no more than 20,000 baht/month. Register the lease at the land office and build your little hotel/guesthouse for say 2 million baht. You then have many years to recoup your capital investment and to earn a decent profit, whilst being able to live in your business premises.

Simon

[OxfordWill]

I tried it with my girlfriend for a few months. I found it unbearably boring, but I was not into much physical activity back then, which I think might have made a difference. If you're not active and going out to do things and perhaps social sports, you might find it too dull.

I was 25/26 at the time. Enjoyed the first month a lot. Ended up driving to Udon very frequently to find some life.

p.s. sounds like you might have married my ex! Just kidding..

Edited March 25, 2014 by OxfordWill

[laobali]

Good place to jump off the bridge when it all goes wrong

It's not high enough! Nongkhai is boring; too quiet, no decent restaurants or pubs, limited shopping (Tesco), nothing to do, nothing to see, better to live nearer the family and see the offspring grow up. Business? Forget it.

[Skeetjones]

Yes settle there. Nice place.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[laobali]

Only been there once but seemed like a nice place. I wish my wife would be willing to move there.

From where would you be moving?

[laobali]

Is the best idea you got a run of the mill Guesthouse?

Er.. yes. Some GHs make money you know...

Simon

Owner/builder of:

Phuket Airport Hotel

Phuket Airport Overnight Hotel

Phuket FLY Guesthouse

Phuket 24/7 Hotel

Phuket Airport B&B

Ao Nang VIP Hotel

Phuket Airport VIP Guesthouse

Just saying....

seriously sir. does op sound capable? for buddhas sake, his idea of business is his wife cooks edible meals.

2nd serious-ness....lol.. why do so many say they want to make enough bahts just to get by. Can you forcast profit to 8000 baht a month. Seems a good way to guaranttee lose your investment.

just going by income metric one would need to at least clear a teechers salary-one would think.

Hell- a million usa dollars would get you @ 2% interest . withdraw that and $10,000 of principal would last you forever and a legacy to boot.

ps it aint that hard to accumulate 1m$ in usa if you understood basic finance and started saving n investing right out of skool!

Choochoo

You make many assumptions.

Perhaps like other considering the same have already made money in the western world and just want a semi retirement without getting rich but more as a pastime and social activity.

If it pays the way all well and good.

A guest house would be an ideal semi retirement. And yes my wife cooks fantastic food and really enjoys cooking. So what is the issue in using those skills in a guest house. I would say quality catering is an important factor.

Cheers for your input

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You'd be wasting your time and money, not enough tourist traffic to warrant another guesthouse. Panthawee has the market pretty well sewn up.

[rotary]

Nong Khai was once ranked 7th in the world as a retirement place. (not sure who did the ranking) Any hotel in the place, probably bars too, will have the relevant articles posted up on the wall somewhere.

7th in the world? I bet they were smoking something that is illegal

[laobali]

I miss The Meeting Place in Nong Khai. It was run by a shady Aussie named Allan (since diseased) and had good farang food back when it was not easy to come by in Thailand. Back then, very few foreigners could get long term visas, so we all passed through Nong Khai every few months on the way to Laos for a new tourist visa and he would show us the seedy side of the town. Those were the days.

Oh boy, the memories are flooding back. Lovely guy, lovely location in a quiet side street. No email, no mobile phones, pin a message to the board. Travelling around in those days was just so more relaxing. People you met were interesting as it took time and effort to get to places, Thailand itself was a lot more laid back. I'm in CM at New Year (hopefully) we must meet up and toast Alan !

OP, times have changed but I still like Nong Khai and can see why you do. Good luck in your quest.

Allan tried to sell for years before moving on. It stayed empty for several years after that before another farang with both white and Thai 'wives' tried it; closed again; not sure what's going on there now. The "old days" are long gone. Been through there for over 10 years. No basic change. NK town is a semi-morgue.

[laobali]

I couldn't do a beer bar. I would drink myself to death.

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Better than dying of boredom.

Beer bars and guest houses need a regular supply of customers. There won't be enough in Nong Khai.

Edited March 25, 2014 by laobali

[dotpoom]

Wish you every happiness ML....nothing to suggest about the business end,.......may you and your wife have a happy time there. Dotpoom.

[rct99q]

Nong Khai was once ranked 7th in the world as a retirement place. (not sure who did the ranking) Any hotel in the place, probably bars too, will have the relevant articles posted up on the wall somewhere.

7th in the world? I bet they were smoking something that is illegal

In AARP Magazine sometime around 2007 they ranked it the 7th most popular place to retire based on 11 different categories.....none of which rings true today.

[MonkeyLoo]

Some great information there thanks everyone for sharing.

From what i have seen Nong Khai has a lot going for it. Ive rented a nice 3 bed house with a garden for just 4000 per month, There are some really good markets, fresh fruit and veg grown beside the river, Golf, fishing and cycling. Many many temples. Udon Thani just 50 mins drive, Vientiane just across the river.

Some decent bars and eating places.

I can see how people would say it can get boring, but its what you make it i guess, like anywhere.

If i can get something going here it will do for me.

I see many people from Laos coming across. I wonder what they are all here buying?

[choochoo]

Simon also had to flee to Burma to escape two ex-wives that own those businesses while stealing his money.

The best advice I can give about a guesthouse business is NOT to rent an existing building on a short lease, but to long-lease a suitable land plot for say 20 years, paying nothing 'up-front' and only paying a small rent per month. A half-rai plot should cost you no more than 20,000 baht/month. Register the lease at the land office and build your little hotel/guesthouse for say 2 million baht. You then have many years to recoup your capital investment and to earn a decent profit, whilst being able to live in your business premises.

Simon

Simon means well but is just mis-guided.

Op is not a young man. He doesn't have many years left to recoup a DUBIOUS venture . And he has NO experience.

Thanks for the guys who think its a waste of time. Does a sticks, hillbilly type of place need another guesthouse?

Im a bit direct but I don't believe in babying silly people and their half cocked ideas of grandeur. OP would do well just to lose a little money. Go live there if you want but that's all.

Leave business for real business people!

[MonkeyLoo]

Choo Choo

You really do come out with some BS.

Assumptions again, you dont know my age and you dont know my experience in business or life so shut the <deleted> up

[choochoo]

you said you background was in marketing and that you built up money in the west.