DPM Pongthep: Govt. is not responsible for failed election

[Lite Beer]

DPM Pongthep: Govt. is not responsible for failed election

BANGKOK, 23 Mar 2014, (NNT) - The government does not have to take any responsibility for the struck-down February 2nd election, says Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana.

The Charter Court late this week ruled that the general election was unconstitutional as it breached Section 108 Clause 2 of the Constitution, which stated that the election must be conducted on the same day nationwide. However, Mr. Pongthep pointed out that the same Section also specified that the polls must be held within 60 days after the dissolution of the parliament.

The Election Commission (EC) claimed that setting the election date on February 2nd was the responsibility of the government, reasoning that the EC had requested that it be postponed and held at later date; however, the request had been turned down by the administration. Mr. Pongthep, meanwhile, argued that the date the election was held was already 56 days after the parliament dissolution, adding if the election date had been moved beyond 60 days it would have been unconstitutional, too.

The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day. The government had made several suggestions to facilitate the polls such as moving polling stations out of the troubled areas, and extending the period for accepting MP applications, all of which were declined by the EC, said Pongthep.

-- NNT 2014-03-23

[dickyknee]

Who dissolved parliament?

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[khwaibah]

"DPM Pongthep: Govt. is not responsible for failed election "

Same BS for non payment to the farmers.

[drand11]

Seems like Thais are robots. Can't they take things in context. The election was 100% valid. The only problem with this whole mess was that a political group chose to sabotage the process. Constitutions are not written to address illegal acts. No constitution is done this way. The Constitutional court chose to ignore the question of "Why" 12% of the electorate had to have a late vote. How convenient when they can now award Mr. Suthep for his illegal acts. Furthermore, since it ignored whole question of "Why" there were delays, it allows Suthep to again delay elections and then again, cause the election to be voided.

Only in Thailand can this shit happen. In any other country, the guy would be arrested, out on bail, and the first time he has any involvement with similar illegal acts, he would be put into jail with no bail.

[drand11]

Government was dissolve to passify Mr. Suthep. Dissolving of Government is Legal, and it was blessed by the King.

Yingluk was also assigned the Care Taker.

[animatic]

Yeah right, not governments fault. NOT!

a ) You called the election.

b ) You didn't make the election work. Despite controlling the mechanisms of governance.

c ) You had no other primary responsibility besides the election.

d ) You wasted much time and money trying to do things that were not in the caretakers mandate,

for your own political benefit.

No other place fault can be laid, no matter what other factors were in play,

as the 'Caretaker Government' your duty was to properly run the election once called.

Not doing that in all cases devolves to the government itself by the constitution.

Edited March 23, 2014 by animatic

[drand11]

Is that a softball question?

- Constitution required the election to take place in 60 days. Remember?

- King Authorized and directed the Caretaker to hold election in 60

- You can't possibly say that if Suthep threatens to delay elections, the world should stop and wait til Suthep agrees to elections?

Suthep should pay for all costs for new elections. He was successful in his plan. Congratulations!

[Soutpeel]

"The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day"

Didnt the EC tell the goverment NOT to hold the election on the 2nd Feb, but the PTP forced the issue went ahead anyway ?

If this is case then Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana, the responsibility for the failed election rest solely with the band of merry thieves that is the PTP

[Thai at Heart]

Seems like Thais are robots. Can't they take things in context. The election was 100% valid. The only problem with this whole mess was that a political group chose to sabotage the process. Constitutions are not written to address illegal acts. No constitution is done this way. The Constitutional court chose to ignore the question of "Why" 12% of the electorate had to have a late vote. How convenient when they can now award Mr. Suthep for his illegal acts. Furthermore, since it ignored whole question of "Why" there were delays, it allows Suthep to again delay elections and then again, cause the election to be voided.

Only in Thailand can this shit happen. In any other country, the guy would be arrested, out on bail, and the first time he has any involvement with similar illegal acts, he would be put into jail with no bail.

Nuts isn't it. Do they fine people who are in jail for not paying their taxes?

[Thai at Heart]

"The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day"

Didnt the EC tell the goverment NOT to hold the election on the 2nd Feb, but the PTP forced the issue went ahead anyway ?

If this is case then Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana, the responsibility for the failed election rest solely with the band of merry thieves that is the PTP

You do understand the window to dictatorships opened up if u allow the government to arbitrarily stop elections.

[Tatsujin]

Do they actually really believe the crap coming out of their mouths or is it all just the usual hot air and blaming everyone else but themselves for the problems?

If the EC advised them to schedule elections at a later date and they ignored this suggestion and refused to work "with" the EC instead of dictating to them, things might have run a little better.

Responsibility for any and all of these "problems" start and stop at the doors of Thaksin/Yingluck/PTP/UDD/DSI/CMPO/CAPO and the Police.

If the Police at any point had done their jobs properly, this need not have escalated in the way it has. They had a huge presence in BKK yet were unable to control or prevent anything that has happened. Simple presence of numbers would have done a lot to mitigate what happened, yet that never occurred.

Of course, if PTP also stopped dictating, followed the law and constitution, followed court rulings, stopped intimidating, stopped underhanded methods in Parliament, were open, honest and transparent, again, we wouldn't be in this situation.

You can try to spin it and blame the anti-Govt side, but there wouldn't have been protests in the first place if they'd followed the law and constitution and acted in an open and honest way.

As and when the opposition gain power and do as PTP / Thaksin have done whilst in power, I'll complain about them too. Until then, everything that has happened to PTP / Thaksin is down to this ... a blatant and arrogant superiority complex and out and out blatant greed, kleptocracy, lies and obfuscation.

Thaksin and PTP do NOT have the best interests of "the majority" at heart, they never did despite the propaganda, they are pawns to be used and conned to allow the rape and pillage of Thailand's coffers for the benefit of no one except themselves.

The "good" things Thaksin did, health care, infrastructure in smaller villages etc, is FAR outweighed by the amounts of monies skimmed into their own bank accounts.

If you can't see that, then yes, I'd have to say you are blind, stupid and ignorant.

[Tatsujin]

Seems like Thais are robots. Can't they take things in context. The election was 100% valid. The only problem with this whole mess was that a political group chose to sabotage the process. Constitutions are not written to address illegal acts. No constitution is done this way. The Constitutional court chose to ignore the question of "Why" 12% of the electorate had to have a late vote. How convenient when they can now award Mr. Suthep for his illegal acts. Furthermore, since it ignored whole question of "Why" there were delays, it allows Suthep to again delay elections and then again, cause the election to be voided.

Only in Thailand can this shit happen. In any other country, the guy would be arrested, out on bail, and the first time he has any involvement with similar illegal acts, he would be put into jail with no bail.

As I've said before, make sure your own house is clean before accusing others.

The man running the country skipped out on bail, Kitiporn should be in jail now also along with a slew of other PT MP's, yet they get rewarded by huge payoffs, massive increases in their personal wealth, not even taking into account what has been hidden.

So start there and then complain, arrest and jail the others. And don't even start with the "politically motivated convictions". That's just a smoke screen. Break the law and pay the price with massive fines, long jail terms, frozen assets, bans for life for holding political office for the perpetrator AND all their family members. That goes for both sides. Equality for all.

[Old Man River]

Yeah right, not governments fault. NOT!

a ) You called the election.

b ) You didn't make the election work. Despite controlling the mechanisms of governance.

c ) You had no other primary responsibility besides the election.

d ) You wasted much time and money trying to do things that were not in the caretakers mandate,

for your own political benefit.

No other place fault can be laid, no matter what other factors were in play,

as the 'Caretaker Government' your duty was to properly run the election once called.

Not doing that in all cases devolves to the government itself by the constitution.

While I agree, it has to be said that in 2010, having failed to get the watermelons to do their jobs, Aphisit finally got Anupong to clean things up, and both have now been indicted for murder. Simply put, using this as the experience, everyone would have done what the PTP did.

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Edited March 23, 2014 by Old Man River

[Scamper]

The Pheu Thai party has now invented a new period in the constitution, called dressing down and quarterbacking the Constitutional Court's ruling after the fact. They can do that until they work themselves into a state of utter exhaustion, but it doesn't change the fact that they have no choice but to accept the ruling. Unless of course they take the Ko Tee route. So we are to assume that at this point the " administration " doesn't have the maturity to accept the ruling and go forward. They would rather :

- keep pressing their arguments and stamping their feet regarding the Constitutional Court's ruling

- continue to refuse to meet with the EC to arrange the next step

- in fact, now affirm their demand that the whole EC resign

- keep affirming that the EC pay 3.8 billion baht for an election that they - in their constitutional capacity - recommended against.

- keep affirming that there is a conspiracy of the independent agencies against them, thereby bolstering the UDD/Ko Tee argument to de-legitimize the checks and balances, which are the constitutionally empowered responsibility of the independent agencies.

That is what Pheu Thai are doing. That is the path they are taking. Straight to the Twilight Zone.

" The government had made several suggestions to facilitate the polls such as moving polling stations out of the troubled areas, and extending the period for accepting MP applications, all of which were declined by the EC, said Pongthep. "

The reason why those suggestions were declined by the EC is that they contravened electioneering rules. When Pheu Thai started unilaterally moving registration venues to police stations against the wishes and the overseeing eye of the EC, and proceeded to parachute Pheu Thai candidates out of helicopters onto the roofs of such stations, they invented election regulatory law. When they proposed extending registration periods they also contravened election law, which has a very specific set of dates the EC must adhere to, that allows a certain amount of time for registration, a certain amount of time for campaigning, and a certain amount of time for advance polling and election day. To change any of these timelines would mean to delay the election accordingly, which naturally would have required a new decree.

But again, Pheu Thai can rant and rave to their heart's content. That's what the UDD is doing, and they are getting exceedingly good at it. But to go forward, Pheu Thai at some point has to accept the Constitutional Court's ruling, work with the EC, and not try to undermine the authority of the independent agencies and judicial system.

[siampolee]

Note the pre- pres release of the new P.T.P. election video , voice over by master ventriloquist Thaksin Shinwatra and English language input by his sister Yingluck ''My way or no way.'' Fight scenes directed by Jutuporn and Thida Red Shirt productions

Edited March 23, 2014 by siampolee

[Dogmatix]

The caretaker government knew that the election could not be completed because there were no candidates in 28 constituencies which meant the House would never have the 95% quorum necessary for convocation within 30 days. The EC advised them to postpone elections for 3 to 5 months in the hope that tensions would subside. The Constitutional Court ruled that such a postponement would be deemed constitutional.

The caretaker government ignored the EC and the court and pressed ahead with elections, knowing that the constitution provided no way they could be completed. Now with utterly perverse logic they say the EC is responsible for the cost. The government has already paid for the cost but I hope the individual cabinet members will be sued in the Civil Court for reimbursement of the cost to the taxpayer.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Thai at Heart]

The caretaker government knew that the election could not be completed because there were no candidates in 28 constituencies which meant the House would never have the 95% quorum necessary for convocation within 30 days. The EC advised them to postpone elections for 3 to 5 months in the hope that tensions would subside. The Constitutional Court ruled that such a postponement would be deemed constitutional.

The caretaker government ignored the EC and the court and pressed ahead with elections, knowing that the constitution provided no way they could be completed. Now with utterly perverse logic they say the EC is responsible for the cost. The government has already paid for the cost but I hope the individual cabinet members will be sued in the Civil Court for reimbursement of the cost to the taxpayer.

I think u may find that was because the candidates were prevented d from registering, not because there were no candidates.

Could you imagine the howls of dictatorship if ptp had stopped the election.

[Dogmatix]

The Pheu Thai party has now invented a new period in the constitution, called dressing down and quarterbacking the Constitutional Court's ruling after the fact. They can do that until they work themselves into a state of utter exhaustion, but it doesn't change the fact that they have no choice but to accept the ruling. Unless of course they take the Ko Tee route. So we are to assume that at this point the " administration " doesn't have the maturity to accept the ruling and go forward. They would rather :

- keep pressing their arguments and stamping their feet regarding the Constitutional Court's ruling

- continue to refuse to meet with the EC to arrange the next step

- in fact, now affirm their demand that the whole EC resign

- keep affirming that the EC pay 3.8 billion baht for an election that they - in their constitutional capacity - recommended against.

- keep affirming that there is a conspiracy of the independent agencies against them, thereby bolstering the UDD/Ko Tee argument to de-legitimize the checks and balances, which are the constitutionally empowered responsibility of the independent agencies.

That is what Pheu Thai are doing. That is the path they are taking. Straight to the Twilight Zone.

" The government had made several suggestions to facilitate the polls such as moving polling stations out of the troubled areas, and extending the period for accepting MP applications, all of which were declined by the EC, said Pongthep. "

The reason why those suggestions were declined by the EC is that they contravened electioneering rules. When Pheu Thai started unilaterally moving registration venues to police stations against the wishes and the overseeing eye of the EC, and proceeded to parachute Pheu Thai candidates out of helicopters onto the roofs of such stations, they invented election regulatory law. When they proposed extending registration periods they also contravened election law, which has a very specific set of dates the EC must adhere to, that allows a certain amount of time for registration, a certain amount of time for campaigning, and a certain amount of time for advance polling and election day. To change any of these timelines would mean to delay the election accordingly, which naturally would have required a new decree.

But again, Pheu Thai can rant and rave to their heart's content. That's what the UDD is doing, and they are getting exceedingly good at it. But to go forward, Pheu Thai at some point has to accept the Constitutional Court's ruling, work with the EC, and not try to undermine the authority of the independent agencies and judicial system.

You are right. The law concerning candidate registration is very specific and the EC commissioners would certainly have been prosecuted if they had re-opened candidate registration, as the caretaker government kept on pushing them to do. Section 7 (1) of the Organic Law on Elections is as follows:

(1) the date of an application for candidacy in the election on a constituency basis

which shall commence not later than twenty days as from the date the Royal Decree coming

into force and the period of application shall not be less than five days;

f

[Kasset Tak]

The government are responsible for the failed election!

1. EC wanted to delay the election from the beginning because of the political unrest.

2. Registration of candidates to the election was disrupted because of the political unrest.

3. Election could not be held because of the political unrest.

Now I have pointed out 3 things, how could EC handle those?

For point 1 the EC wanted to delay but the government said NO.

For point 2 and 3 EC could not have done anything as they don't have jurisdiction to deploy police or military to keep the order and secure the polling stations, office for registration and so on. Only the government have that power and they did NOT see to that the polling stations where secured!

So I can in no way see that it's the fault of EC that the election failed!

Edited March 23, 2014 by Kasset Tak

[Dogmatix]

The caretaker government knew that the election could not be completed because there were no candidates in 28 constituencies which meant the House would never have the 95% quorum necessary for convocation within 30 days. The EC advised them to postpone elections for 3 to 5 months in the hope that tensions would subside. The Constitutional Court ruled that such a postponement would be deemed constitutional.

The caretaker government ignored the EC and the court and pressed ahead with elections, knowing that the constitution provided no way they could be completed. Now with utterly perverse logic they say the EC is responsible for the cost. The government has already paid for the cost but I hope the individual cabinet members will be sued in the Civil Court for reimbursement of the cost to the taxpayer.

I think u may find that was because the candidates were prevented d from registering, not because there were no candidates.

Could you imagine the howls of dictatorship if ptp had stopped the election.

Who would have made the howls of dictatorship, if the caretaker government had followed the advice of the EC and the court and postponed the elections that they knew would not be completed and save the taxpayers' money? Are you perchance referring to "the night of the howling dogs" (kuen maa hon <Thai language removed>) when the village headmen hand out the vote buying money to the Shin clan faithful in the red shirt villages. Yes, of course the red villagers would have been upset by the postponement of their windfalls and the village headmen would have been sorry to miss out on the chunks they would grab for themselves.

Edited March 23, 2014 by metisdead
Thai language edited out of post. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed.

[slapout]

Until some group or force, whose sense of service is not for themselves, nor cronies, nor self intrest groups, but the benifet of the general Thai public, will the 'blame game' be finished.

We hear about loss of face, lack of responsible behavior, unequal enforcement of law, etc, but basically what we are seeing is the result of a social order (political system) which has broken down morally and socially to the point of being non functional.

I hope the Thai's find the people who will use the most peaceful methods to achieve their democratic goals, they must be sleepers as those wannabes in the public's view leave a lot to be desired and may be more suited for isolation from the good people of Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

The government are responsible for the failed election!

1. EC wanted to delay the election from the beginning because of the political unrest.

2. Registration of candidates to the election was disrupted because of the political unrest.

3. Election could not be held because of the political unrest.

Now I have pointed out 3 things, how could EC handle those?

For point 1 the EC wanted to delay but the government said NO.

For point 2 and 3 EC could not have done anything as they don't have jurisdiction to deploy police or military to keep the order and secure the polling stations, office for registration and so on. Only the government have that power and they did NOT see to that the polling stations where secured!

So I can in no way see that it's the fault of EC that the election failed!

I think you have identified the problem that stopped the election quite clearly.

Political unrest.

And what would should the EC have done.

Called in the police and any other mechanism to insure the election went ahead. Petitioned the CC for a ruling to allow it to delay.

Not the governments right to call the delay. That would be unconstitutional.

[Thai at Heart]

The caretaker government knew that the election could not be completed because there were no candidates in 28 constituencies which meant the House would never have the 95% quorum necessary for convocation within 30 days. The EC advised them to postpone elections for 3 to 5 months in the hope that tensions would subside. The Constitutional Court ruled that such a postponement would be deemed constitutional.

The caretaker government ignored the EC and the court and pressed ahead with elections, knowing that the constitution provided no way they could be completed. Now with utterly perverse logic they say the EC is responsible for the cost. The government has already paid for the cost but I hope the individual cabinet members will be sued in the Civil Court for reimbursement of the cost to the taxpayer.

I think u may find that was because the candidates were prevented d from registering, not because there were no candidates.

Could you imagine the howls of dictatorship if ptp had stopped the election.

Who would have made the howls of dictatorship, if the caretaker government had followed the advice of the EC and the court and postponed the elections that they knew would not be completed and save the taxpayers' money? Are you perchance referring to "the night of the howling dogs" (kuen maa hon <Thai language removed>) when the village headmen hand out the vote buying money to the Shin clan faithful in the red shirt villages. Yes, of course the red villagers would have been upset by the postponement of their windfalls and the village headmen would have been sorry to miss out on the chunks they would grab for themselves.

The PDRC, the media, the CC.

U can't have govts postponing elections. That creates dictatorship instantly.

[metisdead]

A post containing inflammatory insults has been removed as well as a reply.

[animatic]

"The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day"

Didnt the EC tell the goverment NOT to hold the election on the 2nd Feb, but the PTP forced the issue went ahead anyway ?

If this is case then Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana, the responsibility for the failed election rest solely with the band of merry thieves that is the PTP

You do understand the window to dictatorships opened up if u allow the government to arbitrarily stop elections.

Sadly that window has been wide open for years, considering the way the electoral system has been jiggered here.

[HonestQuietBob]

Why all the debate?

There is no need to quote the constitution or electoral law here.

Suthep, the PDRC and the geriatrics behind them are responsible.

End of story.

[crapper3]

I m totally bemused at the amount of people within this government who act like totally spoiled kids with their stupid nonsensical press releases.

My children are lots more mature than this lot. I really can't get my mind around the child like thinking in people actually responsible for the fate of this nation and who 68 million people have their future invested in.

Really really shocking to me, and I have been here for years. I wonder what the hell an outsider living in the west thinks of all this... probably with utter bemusement the same as me.

They want the EC to take the blame when all the EC did was totally follow the lead and demands of the government for the simple reason that they refused to do it any other way than 'their way'.

If the government challenges any of this, or the constitutional court ruling, then it should be taken as a refusal to accept the ruling and the appropriate punishment handed out with immediate effect.... no investigations, no debates... just plain and simple impeachment.

End of conversation.

Edited March 23, 2014 by crapper3

[Thai at Heart]

"The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day"

Didnt the EC tell the goverment NOT to hold the election on the 2nd Feb, but the PTP forced the issue went ahead anyway ?

If this is case then Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana, the responsibility for the failed election rest solely with the band of merry thieves that is the PTP

You do understand the window to dictatorships opened up if u allow the government to arbitrarily stop elections.

Sadly that window has been wide open for years, considering the way the electoral system has been jiggered here.

That's true, but it can't be a good thing to allow governments to decide to change or cancel election days Edited March 23, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[fab4]

Lets hear it from Somchai, the man whose responsibility it was to organise the election

Mr. Somchai said that he and other commissioners were facing “massive pressure” from anti government protesters and that the military had declined requests to help guard the election process.

“I am afraid that if the election goes ahead, there will be violence and it may lead to a coup,” he said. His critics say he has it the wrong way around: They say putting off elections will create a power vacuum that could lead to a coup.

Mr. Somchai said he was aware that the Election Commission had the power to call upon the security forces to ensure that the elections took place on time. But the law, he said, is not paramount at a time of intense turmoil.

“Our society today cannot only live by the law,” he said. “We also have to make sure the country survives.”

and now from a former Election Commissioner, Ms. Sodsri Satayathum:

Sodsri Satayathum, a former election commissioner, said she recognized the difficulty of the situation but that the Election Commission should have done more, including asking the military to help ensure that candidates could register...........Ms. Sodsri said the Election Commission had no choice but to go ahead with the elections.“The law doesn’t allow postponement,” she said.

So, Somchai, what is his character?

Mr. Somchai has also been criticized by some for his adversarial comments toward the government.

Last week he said that to get Ms. Yingluck, Thailand’s first female prime minister, to meet with him, he will propose a rendezvous at the Four Seasons hotel in Bangkok.

That was a reference to rumors — denied by Ms. Yingluck — that she met a real estate mogul there for a tryst.

Mr. Somchai says with a smile that he made the comment to “get someone’s attention.”

But the governing party did not take it as a joke. The comments about the Four Seasons are listed as evidence in impeachment proceedings started last week by the governing party against Mr. Somchai.

Classy.

Is he apolitical?

Government supporters say Mr. Somchai, the commissioner, sympathizes with the demonstrations, offering as evidence a photo of him on the Internet posing with two people at one of the protest sites in Bangkok.

Mr. Somchai says he happened to be at a shopping mall situated in the middle of the protests and “it’s common for people to take photos with me.”

Is he f........................................

[animatic]

"The EC must be held responsible for its inability to organize the general election on the same day"

Didnt the EC tell the goverment NOT to hold the election on the 2nd Feb, but the PTP forced the issue went ahead anyway ?

If this is case then Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana, the responsibility for the failed election rest solely with the band of merry thieves that is the PTP

You do understand the window to dictatorships opened up if u allow the government to arbitrarily stop elections.

Sadly that window has been wide open for years, considering the way the electoral system has been jiggered here.

That's true, but it can't be a good thing to allow governments to decide to change election days

Agreed.

Though I have seen elections moved because of hurricanes, snow and civil unrest in America,

on state size levels, and that generally is the same population size as Thailand. the elections do get run,

When it is safe for voters. Which is the logic the EC was using for a delay.

Never a cancelation, but a postponement.

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