Bank Of America Sucks. Recommendation For An Expat-friendly Bank?

[westcoastnative]

I have heard Bank of the West does not charge service charges for overseas ATM use. Hope that helps.

[jfchandler]

I heartily endorse the comments of the OP, re Bank of America. I've used them in the U.S. for decades as a very happy domestic customer. But they SU

CK royally for those of us living abroad, and specifically here in LOS.

Now BofA has a 3% foreign currency transaction fee (same at HSBC) plus a flat rate surcharge if you try to use your BofA ATM card to withdraw cash abroad, including Thailand. That adds up to a LOT of BUCKS in stupid fees.

By the time I moved here, I found a great alternative in a U.S. based-bank. the EOne checking account from (New England-based) SalemFiveDirect at http://www.salemfivedirect.com/

The best thing about this checking account, apart from being free, is they give you a SalemFive Visa logo debit/ATM card that you can use in Thailand or elsewhere abroad to access your SalemFive account for NO fees, and unlimited numbers of ATM transactions per month (not limited to 3 or 6 like many money market accounts). The checking account also pays better than 4.5% interest now, depending on your level of deposit.

With the EOne account, no foreign currency % transaction charge and no out of network ATM charge from Salem 5. In fact, they also will reimburse you for other banks ATM charges, such as you would likely incur in the U.S., though Thai banks don't assess those kinds of charges typically.

Details of EOne checking include:

No monthly fee No minimum balance Free use of any ATM, anywhere, anytime* Free online bill payment Unlimited checking, debit card and ATM transactions One time $25 bonus when you enroll in direct deposit*

The only downside, and it's very small, is Salem 5 doesn't have a very useful ACH transfer system of their own, compared to some other banks. But, you can always initiate deposits or withdrawals into or out of Salem5 using the other bank's ACH system. Countrywide and their Online Savings acccount are great, in that they have a next business day free ACH transfer system.

I've used EOne Checking for months ever since relocating here, and couldn't be happier. They also have good and helpful telephone customer service staff in the U.S. reachable by a toll free phone number.

BTW, IndyMac Bank in the U.S. also has a comparable, fee-free ATM card associated with their accounts. But they've really whacked their interest rates lately and also have significant exposure to the mortgage disaster in the U.S.

John, formerly from L.A.

[sfokevin]

Every Bank has hidden fees... Hence the horror stories... You just need to know when they will be assessed...

I am with Gary A as a happy Citibank user and you can get it FREE of any monthly fees if you do one little trick... I have the Ultimate Money Market and EZ Checking combo which is free on monthly fees if you make two online payments - here is where the trick comes in... I set up two separate automatic $5.00 payments to my US credit card (Capital One 8.99%)

The Capital One is used to buy all plane tickets and to pay for hotels - I find it cheaper to book hotels for a weekend getaway to Hua Hin online than to try and book locally!

I have Fidelity brokerage account that has free online transfers to the Citibank account, free American Express Gold card (New accounts no linger get this perk) and has a ATM card that is free from all ATM fees and gives me an excellent exchange rate that I use for emergency ATM withdrawals on occasion.

[qualtrough]

I also have Bank of America, and the way i get most of my money here is by using Paypal.

Bank of America charges $5 per every transaction here. Whereas if you get a Paypal debit card all debit/credit card transactions are free, and ATM withdrawls cost $1 (and no cost on the Thai end)

It actually works out cheaper to take the money out of Paypal using an ATM than to wire transfer money from bank of america to a thai bank. (which is ridiculous)

(Bank of America charges $45 per wire transfer to Thailand)

The only downside to the Paypal card is that you are limited to withdrawing of $400 per day at the ATM and $2000 per day for debit/credit card transactions.

And its free to transfer money from Bank of America into your Paypal account. Plus you earn 4.8% interest from Paypal.

I use a PayPal card too. You can also keep money there in other currencies too, such as UKP, etc. BTW, I had to speak with a rep recently and she told me the card limit was $3000. Perhaps I misheard, I don't know. I rarely use it as a card anyway so not a concern to me. I do wish they would up the $400 limit since that is only about 12000 B or so.

[jonniebkk]

Citi Bank. Very good internet banking (can do everything and more that one can do at a teller/brach). Modest or no fees depending on account balance. Also, an affliated branch in Bangkok.

[Loom]

No longer have any US bank accounts but maintain a checking account thru Fidelity USA (brokerage account). HSBC in Asia accepts US$ checks drawn against the Fidelity account. It takes up to 20 working days for checks to clear, however. I would use Fidelity's wire transfer option (from US to Asian banks) but need to go back and get a medallion signature guarantee to get that established. Fidelity offers a cash card option. But I use a US credit card and pay with the Fidelity account when I want to use US$ to pay for things in Asia. I understand Schwab may be more expat friendly but haven't explored it.

[Gumballl]

I have a BofA account, and when I travel to Thailand, I perform a wire-transfer of funds to my account at Bangkok Bank, which has a branch in NYC. Thus the wire fees are only $3 plus whatever is charged by BB (500 baht?).

If I were to use my BofA ATM card in Thailand, there is a $5 fee plus a 1% foreign currency transaction fee of the amount withdrawn. For 20K baht w/d, that could amount to about $11. This is a little less than doing the wire-transfer. But then, I am only talking about a "small" amount here.

What are the fees for using an HSBC ATM card? I have an account with them as well, but have never used the card!

--- Wow, I just read above that BofA is now charging 3% for the FCT... that's steep. That means if I were to use the example above, the fee would be approximately $23 for a 20K Baht (~$600) withdrawal. Ouch!

Edited November 23, 2007 by Gumballl

[sonicdragon]

According to another thread on this forum BofA charges only US$3 to make transfers to bank accounts in thailand, so why wouldn't you just open an account at, say Bangkok Bank, and just fund it from your BofA in the US as and when needed ? $3 for transfers to other overseas banks is the lowest fee that I know of.

[Gary A]

Citibank changes and not for the better. Using their ATM card in Thailand will cost you a three percent currency exchange fee. Prior to this year I bought and sold bank CD's online without a problem. That has apparently ended. I had a Citibank credit card and Citibank refuses to renew it because my residence is not in the US. It just appears that the customer service has suffered because they no longer want to bother with the little guys.

The worst part about the whole thing is that I have been looking for a new bank for at least eight months and I CAN'T find a better one. It has become obvious to me that US banks are just not interested in expat accounts. I have three direct deposits going into Citibank and use the online wire transfers to keep my account balance there low. As long as the wire transfer fee stays at a flat $30 and I can do it online, I have no choice but to stay with Citibank.

[jonniebkk]

Citibank changes and not for the better. Using their ATM card in Thailand will cost you a three percent currency exchange fee. Prior to this year I bought and sold bank CD's online without a problem. That has apparently ended. I had a Citibank credit card and Citibank refuses to renew it because my residence is not in the US. It just appears that the customer service has suffered because they no longer want to bother with the little guys.

The worst part about the whole thing is that I have been looking for a new bank for at least eight months and I CAN'T find a better one. It has become obvious to me that US banks are just not interested in expat accounts. I have three direct deposits going into Citibank and use the online wire transfers to keep my account balance there low. As long as the wire transfer fee stays at a flat $30 and I can do it online, I have no choice but to stay with Citibank.

Gary...I don't know why you always have trouble with Citi...I just applied for another Mastercard online trough my USA based Citi account. I have already received the cards here in Thailand. I have all my mailings come to me here in Thailand (though most seem to come from some sort of Citi postal facility in Europe). Via their online banking site and the telephone, I can do anything I could do at a branch. In fact, I haven't even been into a Citi branch for almost 10 years. I don't know about all the fees but what do you expect...to get banking services for nothing? There are ways to minimize the costs however.

[jfchandler]

Re the comments above, BofA and HSBC now both charge 3% foreign currency transaction fees on ATM withdrawals if you are using their U.S. ATM cards here in Thailand. BofA also charges a couple bucks in a flat fee per transaction in addition to the % fee. Anyone using their BofA ATM card regularly here in Thailand is throwing their money down the drain.

Re SonicDragon's post, the BofA $3 transfer fee is not for a WIRE TRANSFER to any bank, but only an online banking transfer that their U.S. customers can do, by linking to Bangkok Bank's New York Branch, which happens to have its own U.S. ABA #. No other Thai bank has such an ABA number to the best of my knowledge, meaning that other Thai banks (Siam, Kasikorn, Ayudhya, etc) can't be linked to in that way via U.S. online banking from BofA or any other U.S. bank.

The downside of this approach, as has been reported by other posters, is it's apparently a bit of a back door route. Smallers transfers under $5000 seem to go through OK. But larger attempted transfers have resulted in BofA customers having BofA freeze their transfer function and/or cancel the online link to Bangkok Bank in their online banking set up. So yes, it is possible, but it's a bit less than secure or reliable, particularly is someone is trying to move more than $5000.

In addition, beyond BofA's $3 per online transfer fee, BKK Bank's New York branch charges a couple bucks handling fee, and then BKK Bank in Thailand charges a percentage rate that's capped at no less than 200 baht and no more than 500 baht.

John.

[Gary A]

Citibank changes and not for the better. Using their ATM card in Thailand will cost you a three percent currency exchange fee. Prior to this year I bought and sold bank CD's online without a problem. That has apparently ended. I had a Citibank credit card and Citibank refuses to renew it because my residence is not in the US. It just appears that the customer service has suffered because they no longer want to bother with the little guys.

The worst part about the whole thing is that I have been looking for a new bank for at least eight months and I CAN'T find a better one. It has become obvious to me that US banks are just not interested in expat accounts. I have three direct deposits going into Citibank and use the online wire transfers to keep my account balance there low. As long as the wire transfer fee stays at a flat $30 and I can do it online, I have no choice but to stay with Citibank.

Gary...I don't know why you always have trouble with Citi...I just applied for another Mastercard online trough my USA based Citi account. I have already received the cards here in Thailand. I have all my mailings come to me here in Thailand (though most seem to come from some sort of Citi postal facility in Europe). Via their online banking site and the telephone, I can do anything I could do at a branch. In fact, I haven't even been into a Citi branch for almost 10 years. I don't know about all the fees but what do you expect...to get banking services for nothing? There are ways to minimize the costs however.

Email from Citibank regarding another credit card;

We are responding to your recent e-mail.

We have received your request for an application. While our credit cards may be used internationally, our current policy limits the issuance of accounts to persons residing in the United States. Therefore, we are unable to honor your request. If you return to the United States and establish residency for six months, you may apply at that time.

If you currently have a duel residency please supply us with the address in the United States where we may be able to send the application.

Sincerely,

C. Mickelson

My email to Citibank after I could no longer purchase a CD online. Unfortunately I deleted the Citibank answer;

Date: 08-04-2007

Subject: Re: CD

Reference: 377C3NZY

It's now obvious to me that you simply DON'T understand my request. I have had the same foreign address for more than four years and had no problem doing everything online in the past.

If you can't fix the problem, then never mind. I'll simply draw my account down to the minimum.

Gary

Service now stinks. I don't know if they just got lazy or what but I WAS a satisfied customer for years. No more.

[Jingthing]

In my view, it is just easier to maintain a "faux" US address with a friend or relative. This kind of thing as from Citibank is very common! I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of US expats here do this.

The US in general is not an expat friendly country, especially when compared to the UK. Why would you want to leave the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD?????

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[Gary A]

In my view, it is just easier to maintain a "faux" US address with a friend or relative. This kind of thing as from Citibank is very common! The US in general is not an expat friendly country, especially when compared to the UK. Why would you want to leave the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD?????

I REFUSE to have to lie to be able to do business with a bank! It's just strange that I did EVERYTHING online including getting new credit cards in the past. Raising the ATM fee to three percent was the start of it. Another strange thing is that I have a Bank Of America credit card and they continue to issue new cards for me to my address here in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

I don't really consider it a "lie" to just list a US address you do use to receive mail. They ask for a US address. You give a US address. That is where they send your mail. You can get your mail from there, so what is the problem?

BTW, I also have a Vonage US phone number with the same area code as my "faux" US address which really gives even more credibility.

I see your point but people do report problems with not having a US address, so I think many people are doing this. I can imagine using a faux US address could cause problems later, but it solves some problems now, so I perfectly understand why people (including me) do this. This is an interesting topic perhaps, so feel free to comment.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[jfchandler]

This is beginning to get off the original post topic, but I'm not a stickler for details about such things...

So, re maintaining a U.S. address, which I do, I use these folks, and their service has been good at a good price: http://www.usa2me.com

Basic deal is, they are a professional mail forwarding service based in Texas that caters to ex-pats and world travelers. I have parents and a brother in Cali...but I don't want to burden or hassle them with getting my stuff back home.

So, you sign up with USA2ME, and they give you a real U.S. mail address that all the express delivery services (and anyone else for mail purposes) can drop to, as opposed to a post office box, which some will not send to.

They have a variety of plans, but the one I use costs basically $20 a month. And for that price, I get a real address I can use for all my U.S. banking and business stuff, and they foward my little remaining postal mail to me (those things that the senders don't yet have an e-mail delivery option for) once a month via U.S.P.S. Global Priority mail as part of that price (up to 4 lbs. of stuff in an envelope).

They also give you online, immediate web access to the details of your incoming mail (sender and size). If you want them to send more often, they do. If you see mail when you log on to their system that you want trashed, you can order that online. If you need to see something urgent, they will open, scan and e-mail the document to you the next day for a small charge.

Re the phone stuff, I've been using AOL AIMphone...which is absolutely free and allows you to pick your own phone area code and number. To receive live calls online, you have to use AOL's crappy AIM Instant Messaging program. But I hate it, so I just use my AOL number there as a voicemail service. Anyone who calls my number goes to my voicemail, then I get an e-mail with a link that allows me to play their voicemail as am MP3 file on my computer. The only condition for keeping the number is, you have to receive an incoming call of any kind (even from yourself) at least once a month. That's how I keep a free local number in the U.S., which I then also use for listing for banking and business purposes.

I'd like to hear also, what other folks are doing. HMMM...maybe this does begin to become a different topic thread....about how to maintain inexpensive mail and phone contact addresses/numbers in the states.

John.

[Gumballl]

I just received a notice the other day from the US District Court Settlement Administrator (PO Box 290, Philadelphia, PA 19105 USA); here's the text contained within the letter:

Dear FirstName LastName,

We are writing on behalf of the US District Court because you are eligible to receive a Court-approved refund of fees charged to your eligible cards, which are Visa, MasterCard, and/or Diners Club credit, charge, and/or debit/ATM cards. The fees were based on foreign transactions, including both purchases and ATM withdrawals, from February 1, 1996 to November 8, 2006.

Please read the enclosed Notice explaining the proposed $336 million settlement and all of your options under the settlement.

If you choose to request a refund, you may use one of three Refund Options. Each of these Options will pay a single refund of fees charged for foreign transactions on ALL of your eligible cards. You may choose only ONE Option from the following:

Refund Option 1: Request an Easy Refund of $25. [snip]; OR

Refund Option 2: Request a Total Estimation Refund based on typical spending during travel and your answers to a few questions about your own travel outside of the US. This Option is recommended if you traveled outside of the US for more than one week or had foreign transactions of more than $2500 using your eligible cards during the 1996 to 2006 period. Refunds will be a maximum of 1% of estimated foreign transactions; OR

Refund Option 3: Request a refund based on information that you provide concerning your Annual Estimated foreign transactions during the 1996 to 2006 period. This Option is recommended if you had extensive foreign travel or foreign transactions and are willing to provide year-by-year information. Refunds will be a maximum of 1% to 3% of foreign transactions. This is the only Option you can use to get a refund for corporate card use.

Enclosed are three forms, one for each Refund Option. You may also file online at the Settlement Administrator's website, using your Refund ID on the top of this letter. [snip]

-------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it looks like I will be eligible for Refund Option 2. I spent quite a long time in LOS, paying out the nose for the ATM withdrawals. The fact that the settlement covers over 10 years, it should be easy to collect more than offered by Option 1.

I hope all of those here on TV that have been unjustly charged foreign transactions fees will be eligible too.

[backflip]

Gumballl,

I filed a claim last week for 1300 days overseas. God willing, I'll get more than the $25 refund!