Costs of building a loft home?

[vadimbz]

2splitlid

Out of curiocity, what system/brand of framing have you chosen?

[1Ping1]

This thing sounds beautiful. If possible could you pm me a few pics, both inside and outside views. I am dead serious. Someday I may want to design and build something similar. Sounds like you knew exactly what you were doing and that you spent the extra for quality materials.

Best Regards

PS, not think this is off topic as the member that posted wanted advice, not that he seems to take any of it very well but he has been given some great advice.

Interesting as a single person / couple home, I'm going to throw in a few 'buts' here.

Your first issue will be keeping that massive interconnected volume cool without getting hotspots on the upper level. $$$ in energy consumption

What about cooking smells in the living/work area, I really love my wife's cooking but I don't want to smell it in my office area.



The walls in a standard Thai structure are not load bearing and are cheap and quick to put up and (if necessary) take down. The money is in the post and beam structural elements, I don't think you'll save 'big bucks' by leaving walls out.

Leaving out part of the upper floor will save some cash, but it removes a considerable floor area too.


Just a few things to think about.

As to cost, I'll leave that to the construction experts.

Loft properties make fantastic homes I no longer own one however my property here in Thailand is very open plan for example in my very large lounge area which is apprx 75sq mtr I have a fitted European kitchen and off that is an office and coming of the office is a half bathroom ( toilet&washbowl) I am then left with a dining area and a large lounge area I have no problems with food smell as I had installed a proper European extractor hood which extracts food smells out of the building on top of this I had incorporated an extractor fan in the bathroom for any unpleasant oders, above this room is the master bedroom yes 75 sq mtr I access that from the 3 metre wide undercover terrace by way of a granite staircase no problem in the rainy season as such is the design the whole area is under cover if and when you build your property make sure you build it where you can benefit from good wind flow to ensure you get good free ventilation and one thing I have noticed with a lot of farang houses is the lack of undercover terrace or overhangs by doing this you will keep the heat of the sun away from your main living space especially if you have a lot of glass like I have . Build costs vary around Thailand I live on an island so transportation comes into the cost factor . my build cost was 30,000 per sq mtr but it is of a very high standard all the teak is mature aged teak and all window / doors are of brushed steel with double glazing it is not the typical Thai property ! Good luck with your venture!!

[splitlid]

internally we have specified http://www.siamgypsum.com/en/component/flippingbook/book/65-products-of-siam-gypsum-2010/11-all-gypsum-products.html?Itemid=214 for the wall framing.

structural steel members are I beams/u beams

other areas are 100mm c channel steel.

[lucjoker]

the good thing is : ones your thai builder has finished ,you will have the "old barn" look !

The big windows will act like stoves if the slightest sun light comes on them.

So you can sleep on the flat roof under a mosquito-net ,with is the coolest place (ex.aircon room)

And your wife can cook on the roof ,the wind will take away every smell !

So ones the cement -floor is finished....stop building ,think of it as your roof !

You will save a lot of money!

And when it rains ????

Well ,your house will be cleaned and the dishes done !

And the bed,in the rain ?

Sleep "under" your bed ,as your wife likes the best ,super cool !

Also your toilet pot will be topped up every time it rains ,is that not fantastic?

And in the dry season ?

Make a well in the middle of the living space and put some fish in it ....are you still reading ?

Really ?

If you want i can sell you the floor-plan ,just give me the

[fabphil]

good luck mate ur gunna need it ..

[vadimbz]

PS, not think this is off topic as the member that posted wanted advice, not that he seems to take any of it very well but he has been given some great advice.

OP is one arrogant bastard, but it's his pain, not his fault J

Seriously, I would like to thank everyone for the advice, background info, and objections/pitfalls, especially for the latter.

[vadimbz]

....are you still reading ?

Really ?

Yep, but don't get it. Are you from the future?

[zaZa9]

Isnt steel a very good conductor of heat?

The sweeping glass areas in many of the pics of some lovely (Cold Climate) lofts I just dont see as very practical for Thailand either.

Should the design not measure up in insulative properties as the builder hoped , open sided bedrooms situated at the pinnacle of the house ( heat rises ) will be very difficult to adequately air condition or cool.

Im not knocking the design or aesthetics presented , it looks great , but anything I build in a place as hot as here in Phuket would include heaps of opportunities for cross flow ventilation , wide eaves and verandahs for shading outside walls , and shade trees surrounding the house as close as is feasible , particularly to the West.

The last thing I would do is stick the bedrooms high up and presented to the sun for 12 hours a day.

After 3 months of no rain here , I also have turned my attention to water shortages. The extra costs of subterannean water storage and possibly a bore as well is something I will be saving extra for .

I do hope it all goes well , and that you continue to post your projects progress.

[lucjoker]

....are you still reading ?

Really ?

Yep, but don't get it. Are you from the future?

yes, and i'm looking at you right now!

If you want to see me : run very fast and close your eyes...you will be among the stars very soon.

[KonaRain]

Having build five houses on Phuket, all original designs, I have found the key to getting things done is a good architect to design the detailed working prints, and a good contractor with good subcontractors for the plumbing, electrical, aircon and carpentry work. Also that I personally spend a daily hour on the site carefully inspecting the work that is being done; errors will be found every day, guaranteed.

Avoid any exotic or new materials and techniques that the workers will not be familiar with. Your desired loft can be created very ably using the conventional Thai ferroconcrete post and beam construction method.

[vadimbz]

Yes, but your steelwork is not directly exposed to the sun, nor it is exposed to your house internal space. Heat transfer occurs, but can be disregarded. I think it comes to everyone's within first five minutes after considering steel framing. For peace of mind one can buy extra insulation or extra wall width, and sellers will market their ass of it, but consider this: such houses are most popular in Tropical Belt of Oz, and it has been this way for like 50 years.

[sfokevin]

I might suggest you look in your area for an old shophouse/townhouse to rent cheap (~ 5k/month) and gut and make into a loft style...

Also check out this guys Facebook... He built a loft style home in the suburbs of Bangkok

https://www.facebook.com/thewavehome?ref=ts&fref=ts

Edited March 29, 2014 by sfokevin

[KonaRain]

My friend built a house in Chaing Mai, 15x3.5 meters with brick walls and steel roof and framing.

Brick cabinet too..actually it was the stand for the stove..brick..but the inset for the sink was brick, your drawings are lovely, though.

The contractor was fantastic, and a couple of ladies were stone masons and all around carpenters!

600k baht.i was told that 3/4 of that went to contractor and crew. Brick bearing walls and stucco!

You're not building in Chaing Mai, but I know a good architect.

Good luck with project and Aloha to You All!

[philliphn]

Have you seen Suawarm (not sure of spelling) condominiumsin Pattaya. It is a new building with a loft design,

[rotary]

I would warn against building anything that is non-standard. In other words it will be better to find workers in your area, have a look at what they have built in the past, and make small changes to bring the home closer to what you really want. Fancy designs that Thais have not built before will not be constructed right plus will cost you an arm and leg. Better stick with what these guys know how to build then watch them like a hawk. Or maybe better yet buy something that someone has built several years ago that you can buy. You might save money, spend that cash to make improvements, and also make sure the foundation was done correct as there would be cracks showing after a few years. I was shown a photo of a fancy European designed house that someone built. When asked to guess the cost I missed by 60%. I am sure this guy spent 60% more money building non standard home than if he had just built a nice good quality Thai house. I thought it was ugly also. Ha Ha. It is your money but your best practical way is to stay standard.

Edited March 29, 2014 by rotary

[Mitker]

I might suggest you look in your area for an old shophouse/townhouse to rent cheap (~ 5k/month) and gut and make into a loft style...

Also check out this guys Facebook... He built a loft style home in the suburbs of Bangkok

https://www.facebook.com/thewavehome?ref=ts&fref=ts

My idea too.

I have visited a shop house in BKK that had been totally remodeled by a (foreign) architect. The place was truly impressive in its design and viability. It was even more shocking when, from outside, you could see the remaining units of the project on both side of this home. Their lack of inspiration and awful pattern had been entirely wiped from the renovated one. Cruel comparison

[bob strutt]

building in thailand, what an ordeal, i have 99% finished a 4 bed 2 bath australian , thai designed home for the heat, 150 ks from udon thani, i am just happy , not extatic, with the result, i am a carpenter, plumber ,tiler, electrician, and a roofing specialist and a licenced builder in aus, have been in charge of everything from a out house to a 50 story shopping , residencial complex, had my own building company for 40 years, this has been my finest hour, thais only know one way, the thai way at every thing, and its all wrong, try to tell them, you can not because you can not speak there lanuage and to them we just do not know, and they do not want to know any different, concrete is the perfect example. they can not use it without massive amounts of water, how wrong is that, i have built where i want to live , but i would very strongly advise some one who has no building experience to get a good architec, and a good builder, and look at there completed projects, then get a written contract for all costs and specifications of all materials to be used, and how they are to be installed, it is not easy to build in los bobs

[sfokevin]

I might suggest you look in your area for an old shophouse/townhouse to rent cheap (~ 5k/month) and gut and make into a loft style...

Also check out this guys Facebook... He built a loft style home in the suburbs of Bangkok

https://www.facebook.com/thewavehome?ref=ts&fref=ts

My idea too.

I have visited a shop house in BKK that had been totally remodeled by a (foreign) architect. The place was truly impressive in its design and viability. It was even more shocking when, from outside, you could see the remaining units of the project on both side of this home. Their lack of inspiration and awful pattern had been entirely wiped from the renovated one. Cruel comparison

Check out this link: http://villageinthecity.com/?cat=1

[Reddog1]

Just for the record. There was a book about building in Thailand that might be of use. I built for years in the USA and Patong Beach (Phuket) uses the same building codes as Reno Nevada USA. (they don't always use them - but that is another subject) My condo in Patong has the same codes as my house and condo in Reno. It's kind of strange.

The book is - Building Thailand by Stephen G Haigh

try www.buildingthailand.com

[vadimbz]

So to sum it up: The only way to build successfully here in LoS is to build a standard house based on standard design with standard materials, and/or to be a Bruce Lee of construction, right?

[vadimbz]

I might suggest you look in your area for an old shophouse/townhouse to rent cheap (~ 5k/month) and gut and make into a loft style...

Also check out this guys Facebook... He built a loft style home in the suburbs of Bangkok

https://www.facebook.com/thewavehome?ref=ts&fref=ts

Yeah, I thought about it, but building from the ground looked like an easier option — with major conversions/renovations too many things can go wrong, perspectives of finding a crew with relevant experience, and skillset looked quite discouraging too.

As for the house on FB, it looks my kind of thing, cats included J

Edited March 29, 2014 by vadimbz

[Farma]

Ref renovating a shop house.

We completed a corner double width 2 storey shophouse renovation this past year. Renovations included removing a set of stairs, filling in that stairwell hole, adding a bathroom and kitchen upstairs, knocking out upstairs walls, making 2 bedrooms, inserting a balcony doorway and making a balcony area using that flat area outside. The roof was replaced with heat resistant roofing sheets.

We had plenty of other work done including replacing roller shutters, additional doors along the side, an extension out front plus a total revamp of a downstairs rear area used as a kitchen. The electrical wiring was totally replaced with grounded wires throughout. There was a lot of other work like lifting and replacing the floor tiles throughout too.

One thing to consider is the standard width between uprights is either 4 or 5 metres. Our building is 4 metres between uprights.

If you do build a loft home you will need to look at how to support that wide open area. Our upper floor was made from 4m concrete beams fitted crossways and relying on support from the middle uprights.

The biggest problem we encountered was finding reliable tradesmen. We had to call in a 2nd plumber to fix leaks. Our initially good electrician discovered Yaba halfway through the job so we fired him and had to find a replacement. Then there were times when workmen didn't show up for a week or so come rice planting season. You need to be there to see progress on a daily basis. This also allows you to make minor changes as the build progresses.

It worked out cheaper for us to contract the work to various teams with us buying the materials. Each team would submit a list of materials needed a week or more in advance. This ensured we had quality fittings installed. The main building team had a cash float to buy small consumables with them providing receipts prior to the float being topped up.

[bbradsby]

OP, for your proposed design I recommend the following:

Framing in steel; as the thai concrete trade here for single family residential projects is abysmally low-tech and actually would be dangerous for the spans you indicate in your photos. One of the other poster's comments about the amount of water in their concrete is spot-on. And add the improper rebar placement, poor forming & shoring, and stripping of forms before the concrete has set, all make for dangerous structural concrete beyond 4m column spacing if even that. Concrete overhead on your project would be a bad idea, depending on final design of course.

As for all projects, you must get a proper set of drawings in Thai (for builders) and English (for you to play along) for architectural, structural, electrical & plumbing. These are required for getting a proper building priced and constructed. I can do these for you, whether steel or concrete frame, loft or otherwise. pm me if you would like to pursue this.

As you have zero experience in construction, this will be your biggest challenge to a successfully delivered project. As you are clearly very particular on what you want, you'll need to bird-dog it full-time, buy six months of an experienced, English & Thai speaking construction manager's time to manage the trades and interpret drawings alongside you and head off mistakes before/as they happen... and they will happen weekly, if not daily. Possibly thrice daily, as you are not going "Local" in your design.

Where is your site, either already purchased or preferred? IF you are upcountry, you should stop now with the idea of building "outside the [Thai] box." If suburban or urban you have a chance of success with the right team.

All the best,

[sfokevin]

I don't think what you want is too out of the ordinary for the locals to build... I would look in your area at the new row shop houses that are going up along the road - simple boxes... Use them as your base and modify... Stick to a standard grid of 4 or 5 meters... Have the builder build your box and you finish the inside off... I would also recommend having a two roof system where the top roof is just corrugated steel with big overhang that takes the heat and let's the air flow underneath...

[zaZa9]

So to sum it up: The only way to build successfully here in LoS is to build a standard house based on standard design with standard materials, and/or to be a Bruce Lee of construction, right?

Not at all.

Only if you wish to build a 'designer house' at the ridiculously low cost of 1 million baht.

Im from Australia , and let me tell you , a loft house is not the 'preferred' design for tropical Queensland houses at all.

The overwhelmingly popular Qld design is a 'standard' house with wooden floor boards ( that leak air )and on stilts! So that downstairs is always shady and cool.

People go down there in the hottest times to sleep. Or under verandahs outside. Absolutely nobody wants to sleep in the apex of a loft in the heat.... and it isnt , in Qld , as hot as most of Thailand... look up corresponding average temps.

Now have another swipe ... Im thinking you enjoy that more than any helpful info you receive ...555

Opinionated and kee niow , a heart warming combination...

Edited March 31, 2014 by zaZa9

[KonaRain]

OP, for your proposed design I recommend the following:

Framing in steel; as the thai concrete trade here for single family residential projects is abysmally low-tech and actually would be dangerous for the spans you indicate in your photos. One of the other poster's comments about the amount of water in their concrete is spot-on. And add the improper rebar placement, poor forming & shoring, and stripping of forms before the concrete has set, all make for dangerous structural concrete beyond 4m column spacing if even that. Concrete overhead on your project would be a bad idea, depending on final design of course.

As for all projects, you must get a proper set of drawings in Thai (for builders) and English (for you to play along) for architectural, structural, electrical & plumbing. These are required for getting a proper building priced and constructed. I can do these for you, whether steel or concrete frame, loft or otherwise. pm me if you would like to pursue this.

As you have zero experience in construction, this will be your biggest challenge to a successfully delivered project. As you are clearly very particular on what you want, you'll need to bird-dog it full-time, buy six months of an experienced, English & Thai speaking construction manager's time to manage the trades and interpret drawings alongside you and head off mistakes before/as they happen... and they will happen weekly, if not daily. Possibly thrice daily, as you are not going "Local" in your design.

Where is your site, either already purchased or preferred? IF you are upcountry, you should stop now with the idea of building "outside the [Thai] box." If suburban or urban you have a chance of success with the right team.

All the best,

Looks like You found what/who You needed..

I made vids of the concrete work, which was top notch, by hand and mixer on "our house".

Metal framing is the way in Thailand, roof and wall framing.. I gave our roof welder some earplugs for the LOUD cutting of metal beams as well as cutting plastic wood..actually I gave away many earplugs..growing older is hard enough without hearing loss..《servere》Alohz

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cheeryble]

What about cooking smells in the living/work area, I really love my wife's cooking but I don't want to smell it in my office area.

.

I'd really love to love my wife's cooking.

If only.

BTW hope I thanked u for advice properly on previous question about cable Crossy.

I'm starting a little " series" of questions for my "holiday home" and look forward to your valued input.

Sorry OP back to yr thread.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited April 1, 2014 by cheeryble

[smotherb]

Interesting side line--I know a falang who bought a rooftop as a condo. It is downtown on the seventh floor with elevator service to the sixth. It has great views of the city and mountains. It had only a 4x5m laundry room and toilet. However, he covered the entire rooftop, expanded the laundry room into a master bedroom, installed partitions on the opposite end of the roof to surrround a kitchen and utility area, and screened-in the entire area. The center of the rooftop is a quite spacious living room, bar and play area. He paid only B300k for the rooftop and spent anither B350k to fix it up. Quite a nice bachelor pad, very worthwhile, and I am a proponent of renting.

[vadimbz]

If you do build a loft home you will need to look at how to support that wide open area. Our upper floor was made from 4m concrete beams fitted crossways and relying on support from the middle uprights.

If I do this, I'll go with lightweight steel framing. Such structure will probably support itself.

As you have zero experience in construction, this will be your biggest challenge to a successfully delivered project. As you are clearly very particular on what you want, you'll need to bird-dog it full-time, buy six months of an experienced, English & Thai speaking construction manager's time to manage the trades and interpret drawings alongside you and head off mistakes before/as they happen... and they will happen weekly, if not daily. Possibly thrice daily, as you are not going "Local" in your design.

Where is your site, either already purchased or preferred? IF you are upcountry, you should stop now with the idea of building "outside the [Thai] box." If suburban or urban you have a chance of success with the right team.

To feel completely safe I will need to hire two guys like that, and provoke a feud between them, so that they keep an eye on each other. Divide et domicilium.

As for the rest, you are right, but I have guardedly high expectations about those fancy "building systems", and a handful of corresponding providers are active in Thailand, mostly in commercial and industrial segments. Those systems work like an erector set, so it's more difficult, though not impossible, to cut corners, and screw up — it simply will not fit where it doesn't belong, unless one tries really really hard.

Besides, when I contacted one of the providers, they claimed that they can give me the crew for framing assembly (at least), or may be even for the whole project (the guy sounded unclear). I am not holding my breath — the crew will be Thai, and Their boss will be Thai, and their work ethic will be Thai, but situation looks almost manageable from where I am standing. And I still have one year to do my homework.

There is nothing wrong in being self-complacent.

Edited April 5, 2014 by vadimbz

[bbradsby]

If you do build a loft home you will need to look at how to support that wide open area. Our upper floor was made from 4m concrete beams fitted crossways and relying on support from the middle uprights.

If I do this, I'll go with lightweight steel framing. Such structure will probably support itself.

As you have zero experience in construction, this will be your biggest challenge to a successfully delivered project. As you are clearly very particular on what you want, you'll need to bird-dog it full-time, buy six months of an experienced, English & Thai speaking construction manager's time to manage the trades and interpret drawings alongside you and head off mistakes before/as they happen... and they will happen weekly, if not daily. Possibly thrice daily, as you are not going "Local" in your design.

Where is your site, either already purchased or preferred? IF you are upcountry, you should stop now with the idea of building "outside the [Thai] box." If suburban or urban you have a chance of success with the right team.

To feel completely safe I will need to hire two guys like that, and provoke a feud between them, so that they keep an eye on each other. Divide et domicilium.

As for the rest, you are right, but I have guardedly high expectations about those fancy "building systems", and a handful of corresponding providers are active in Thailand, mostly in commercial and industrial segments. Those systems work like an erector set, so it's more difficult, though not impossible, to cut corners, and screw up — it simply will not fit where it doesn't belong, unless one tries really really hard.

Besides, when I contacted one of the providers, they claimed that they can give me the crew for framing assembly (at least), or may be even for the whole project (the guy sounded unclear). I am not holding my breath — the crew will be Thai, and Their boss will be Thai, and their work ethic will be Thai, but situation looks almost manageable from where I am standing. And I still have one year to do my homework.

There is nothing wrong in being self-complacent.

OK then. Your plan seems fool-proof, so you should be safe.

Be sure to post pix of the project progress and cost on this forum to pay forward the benefit you've received from the responders who took the time to offer their experience and advice to your request.