Help With Refused Settlement Visa

[r4b]

Hi everyone, excuse my spelling please.... This morning my Thai wife got a refusal letter for a settlement visa for uk on the grounds of not being maintained. However i am on DLA £74 weekly and in receipt of Employment support allowance £162 weekly, child tax credit for my to British children from previous relationship that i have custody of £113 weekly, child benefit £33 weekly, Housing benefit £98 weekly which covers my full rent. total weekly income £487. also they said me and my wife got married quickly ( 9 months in relationship but know each other 1 year and 6 months) they also said they are not satisfied with her english to find a job in the uk however she passed the english test. As far as i am aware and according to other sites and the ukba website because i get dla then my other benefits can be used for the maintenance. they say my accomidation not suitable yet i provide tenantcy aggreement of a 3 bedroom house only me and my 2 children live in. Could someone please advise me if this is true because in the refusal letter they have said that my other benefit CANNOT BE USED for this. I think this to be wrong and would like anyones advise on our next move. i have drafted a letter to the entry clearance manager but would also like to know the address of where i would send it to him in bangkok, do i direct it straight to his attention at the embassy or the vfs ?. they also never returned all the documents back to my wife ie my finances , proof of income papers reports, they kept these. I would be greatful of any advise. many thankss

Edited March 27, 2014 by metisdead
Please do not post using all caps. Topic title edited to remove all caps.

[r4b]

Something i just found online from the law center. Would this surely not prove my case the the entry clearance officer has got it wrong ?.

6.1 Exemption from the financial requirement

An applicant whose sponsor is in receipt of any of the following disability related benefits will be exempt from the financial requirement in respect of that application stage:

• Disability Living Allowance;

• Severe Disablement Allowance;

• Industrial Injuries Disablement Allowance;

• Attendance Allowance;

• Carers Allowance.

The applicant will have to show that s/he will be adequately maintained and accommodated without direct recourse to public funds.

The maintenance rules require an applicant to show that the family will be able to:

• maintain ‘themselves’;
• ‘adequately’;
• without recourse to public funds.

There is no objection to the UK resident sponsor claiming any benefits to which s/he is entitled, as it is additional recourse to public funds that the rules aim to avoid. Payment to the sponsor is not treated as reliance on public funds unless the level of payment ‘is (or would be) entitled to’ be increased by the arrival of the applicant.

The sponsor should be able to demonstrate on her/his own finances that the family will have means above the level at which the non-contributory, ’safety net’ benefits, Income Support and Income based Jobseeker’s Allowance would be paid. Where the sponsor is unable to maintain the family adequately from her/his own resources, S/he may be able to rely on the offer of a job for the applicant. This is often particularly relevant where a husband is being sponsored for entry and the wife has care of young children, or where the sponsor is unable to work on health grounds. All cases where maintenance is in issue require careful preparation of the evidence. This will involve calculations of the income and principal expenses of the household, and a comparison with the levels of benefit payments.

The Immigration Rules therefore require that both the sponsor and applicant for the visa will be able to demonstrate with sufficient original documentary evidence that they have enough money and adequate housing for themselves, without any additional recourse to public funds for the non-UK spouse/ civil partner/ partner. However, please note that there are certain very specific exceptions to this rule and further specialist advice should be sought.

Therefore, because the Immigration Rules only prohibit any ‘additional’ recourse to public funds for the non-settled spouse/civil partner/partner, the sponsor in the UK can still apply for benefits for themselves, if relevant.

[7by7]

If you can post the refusal notice in full, first deleting any names or other identifying information, we will be better able to advise you.

[r4b]

If you can post the refusal notice in full, first deleting any names or other identifying information, we will be better able to advise you.

.

I am sorry but the letter is with my wife in thailand, im in uk so i havent got it but the refusal was on the grounds that i have said. that i cannot prove adequate maintainence and accomadation. Along with our relationship only being 9 months and only recently married 1 month. I am unaware of there being a time limit on how long you know someone before u can marry or by how long you have to be married for before u can apply for a visa. as above i have clearly shown i have to funds to maintain my wife above the minimum income support threshold. which i believe to be 114 for a couple approx.

[7by7]

I am aware of what you posted, but the actual wording of the refusal notice can aid greatly in advising you of the way forward.

Can't she email a copy to you?

[r4b]

I am aware of what you posted, but the actual wording of the refusal notice can aid greatly in advising you of the way forward.

Can't she email a copy to you?

thank you for your reply. Im not sure of the actual wording only the basic reasons i have said. i think it would take her a week to type it down and send it to me. I only know That they have said i cannot use my esa and other benefits towards adequate maintainence. That she wont find work due to her basic english. she passed the test and her english is really good although following instructions is a problem. however she passed. really i would like to know if they are wrong that i cannot use my benefits for adequate maintaince and if i want to ask for an immediate review to the entry clearence officer where do i send this to

mayn thanks f

[r4b]

I was under the understanding that if i receive DLA then my other benefits can be taken into consideration and will be but according to the entry clearence officer who dealt with the case he says no and only took my DLA into consideration

[hotrod4098]

on most visa to the uk..the amount you must earn is around £18600..so that you do not use benefits to keep the person..

so you dot qualify as you are on benefits...so they look at is as the state is keeping the person..

[r4b]

on most visa to the uk..the amount you must earn is around £18600..so that you do not use benefits to keep the person..

so you dot qualify as you are on benefits...so they look at is as the state is keeping the person..

Becasue i am disabled and in receipt of DISABILITY LIVING ALLOWANCE i am exempt from the financial aspects. but must show adequate maintainance

[hotrod4098]

if she comes to the uk..you would get more benefits maybe as you are married..

[r4b]

if she comes to the uk..you would get more benefits maybe as you are married..

it actually works out slightly less but i word not be claiming benefit for her and she is not intitled to any

[hotrod4098]

3.6.4. The applicant will not need to meet the minimum income threshold. Instead, the applicant

is required to demonstrate that they will be adequately maintained without recourse to public

funds. The relevant guidance is set out in IDI Chapter 8 section 1.7a. This does not allow

the applicant to rely on promises of third party support or prospective employment or a job

offer.

here you have it...you need to show you can take care of her...

[ThaiVisaExpress]

As 7x7 says, nobody can really give you advice if we can't see the refusal notice. The wording is important.

There is a right of appeal against the decision, but no immigration advisor or lawyer will be able to help you unless they can also see the refusal notice. They would be unable to submit an appeal without it.

If your wife is in, or near, Pattaya, by any chance, she could bring the refusal notice to the office, and Paul could give you an opinion.

Tony M

[r4b]

3.6.4. The applicant will not need to meet the minimum income threshold. Instead, the applicant

is required to demonstrate that they will be adequately maintained without recourse to public

funds. The relevant guidance is set out in IDI Chapter 8 section 1.7a. This does not allow

the applicant to rely on promises of third party support or prospective employment or a job

offer.

here you have it...you need to show you can take care of her...

hi, thanks for your reply. As far as im aware the minimum to maintain is what you receive on income support. for a couple this is around 114. i clearly am above this as i receive 487. But in the refusal letter the eco has said i cannot use my benefits other than y DLA towards adequate maintainance.. as i have previously posted i think this to be incorrect. i only want to know if i am right in saying this and if i a can as for an immediate review by the entry clearance manager and also does anyone know the address of the entry clearance manger thanks

[7by7]

This is the visas and migration forum; people come here for advice and help on visa matters; including refusals.

The comments from some posters are totally uncalled for and completely out of place in this forum.

If you have no useful advice to offer the OP, I suggest that you Foxtrot Oscar!

[r4b]

As 7x7 says, nobody can really give you advice if we can't see the refusal notice. The wording is important.

There is a right of appeal against the decision, but no immigration advisor or lawyer will be able to help you unless they can also see the refusal notice. They would be unable to submit an appeal without it.

If your wife is in, or near, Pattaya, by any chance, she could bring the refusal notice to the office, and Paul could give you an opinion.

Tony M

Thanks for your reply, No my wife is far away from Pattaya. It is a review i am asking about by the entry clearance manager.I want him to look at the application again because i believe the fact the entry clearance officer has said my benefits Employment Support Allowance, tax credit, child benefit cannot be used towards adequate maintainance to be incorrect. As far as i am aware they can. Am i not correct in this

[7by7]

Tax credit and child benefit definitely cannot be used towards the income requirement.

However, as you are in receipt of DLA you do not have to satisfy the minimum income requirement; instead you have to show that your wife will be adequately supported and accommodated without recourse to public funds; other than those you already receive.

In calculating this the ECO will look at your total income and total expenditure.

Which is why we need to know what the refusal notice actually says; to see the arguments put forward by the ECO upon which s/he based the refusal.

There is, of course, no reason why your wife cannot submit her appeal now (it must be done within 28 days of the refusal anyway) and this will initiate an ECM review as the first step of the process.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

As 7x7 says, nobody can really give you advice if we can't see the refusal notice. The wording is important.

There is a right of appeal against the decision, but no immigration advisor or lawyer will be able to help you unless they can also see the refusal notice. They would be unable to submit an appeal without it.

If your wife is in, or near, Pattaya, by any chance, she could bring the refusal notice to the office, and Paul could give you an opinion.

Tony M

Thanks for your reply, No my wife is far away from Pattaya. It is a review i am asking about by the entry clearance manager.I want him to look at the application again because i believe the fact the entry clearance officer has said my benefits Employment Support Allowance, tax credit, child benefit cannot be used towards adequate maintainance to be incorrect. As far as i am aware they can. Am i not correct in this

This is one of the reasons I asked for sight of the refusal letter. The ECO uses a calculation to assess whether you can meet the requirement to adequately maintain your wife or not. The calculation includes :

Assessing the adequacy of the funds available

In calculating whether the applicant can be adequately maintained, the decision

maker should follow the following steps:

(a) Establish the sponsor’s and/or applicant’s (if they are in the UK with

permission to work) current net income. The net income should be established

and if the income varies, an average should be calculated. Income from

benefits can be included as income.

(b ) Establish the sponsor’s current housing costs from the evidence

provided.

© Deduct the housing costs from the net income.

(d) Calculate how much the sponsor and his family would receive if they

were on Income Support.

(e) Compare the sponsor’s net income after deduction of housing costs with

the equivalent Income Support rate.

In addition, the ECO must show the figures in the refusal notice, including his calculations. The refusal notice must contain the following wording ( in addition to the calculations). Note the use of the word "must" :

Where an applicant fails to provide evidence of ‘adequate’ maintenance the following wording must be used in refusal notices:

You have failed to demonstrate that there will be ‘adequate’ maintenance for yourself, your partner and any dependants without recourse to public funds.

The calculation below sets out your net income after accommodation costs have been deducted.. These figures demonstrate that your net income, after accommodation costs have been deducted, is less than the level a British family of that size would be entitled to under Income Support.

Based on the current benefit and tax rates it is apparent that your net income after accommodation costs have been deducted is less than would be available to a British family of equivalent size. It is therefore found that you do not have ‘adequate’ maintenance to support you and your partner (and any dependants – delete as appropriate).

If the ECO has used this wording, and has included the calculations, you will only be able to argue a case if his figures are wrong, I suspect. If he has not included the wording, or the calculations, then you already have a case.

I do have some concerns about you saying that the ECO says that your wife's English is not good enough to get a job. That cannot be a reason for refusal, and if the ECO actually said this, you may have a valid complaint concerning that reason.

You can do your own calculations of course. This is the full guidance on "Maintenance" :

maintenance Feb 2014.pdf

Tony M

[r4b]

Tax credit and child benefit definitely cannot be used towards the income requirement.

However, as you are in receipt of DLA you do not have to satisfy the minimum income requirement; instead you have to show that your wife will be adequately supported and accommodated without recourse to public funds; other than those you already receive.

In calculating this the ECO will look at your total income and total expenditure.

Which is why we need to know what the refusal notice actually says; to see the arguments put forward by the ECO upon which s/he based the refusal.

There is, of course, no reason why your wife cannot submit her appeal now (it must be done within 28 days of the refusal anyway) and this will initiate an ECM review as the first step of the process.

Hi, again thanks for your reply, my wife is now going type out and to send it to me through email so i hope i can put it on the post when she finishes, ( could be a while ). Yes it says about the appeal but i have read that the appeal system can drag out a long time even more than a year. This is the reason i would like to send it to the Entry Clearance Manager directly to ask him to look and review this immediately as i believe the eco has not taken into effect my esa and other benefits when working out adequate mantainance. my wife says the letter says they cannot take these benefits into account even though the apendix say you can if person on DLA.

[r4b]

As 7x7 says, nobody can really give you advice if we can't see the refusal notice. The wording is important.

There is a right of appeal against the decision, but no immigration advisor or lawyer will be able to help you unless they can also see the refusal notice. They would be unable to submit an appeal without it.

If your wife is in, or near, Pattaya, by any chance, she could bring the refusal notice to the office, and Paul could give you an opinion.

Tony M

Thanks for your reply, No my wife is far away from Pattaya. It is a review i am asking about by the entry clearance manager.I want him to look at the application again because i believe the fact the entry clearance officer has said my benefits Employment Support Allowance, tax credit, child benefit cannot be used towards adequate maintainance to be incorrect. As far as i am aware they can. Am i not correct in this

This is one of the reasons I asked for sight of the refusal letter. The ECO uses a calculation to assess whether you can meet the requirement to adequately maintain your wife or not. The calculation includes :

Assessing the adequacy of the funds available

In calculating whether the applicant can be adequately maintained, the decision

maker should follow the following steps:

(a) Establish the sponsor’s and/or applicant’s (if they are in the UK with

permission to work) current net income. The net income should be established

and if the income varies, an average should be calculated. Income from

benefits can be included as income.

(b ) Establish the sponsor’s current housing costs from the evidence

provided.

© Deduct the housing costs from the net income.

(d) Calculate how much the sponsor and his family would receive if they

were on Income Support.

(e) Compare the sponsor’s net income after deduction of housing costs with

the equivalent Income Support rate.

In addition, the ECO must show the figures in the refusal notice, including his calculations. The refusal notice must contain the following wording ( in addition to the calculations). Note the use of the word "must" :

Where an applicant fails to provide evidence of ‘adequate’ maintenance the following wording must be used in refusal notices:

You have failed to demonstrate that there will be ‘adequate’ maintenance for yourself, your partner and any dependants without recourse to public funds.

The calculation below sets out your net income after accommodation costs have been deducted.. These figures demonstrate that your net income, after accommodation costs have been deducted, is less than the level a British family of that size would be entitled to under Income Support.

Based on the current benefit and tax rates it is apparent that your net income after accommodation costs have been deducted is less than would be available to a British family of equivalent size. It is therefore found that you do not have ‘adequate’ maintenance to support you and your partner (and any dependants – delete as appropriate).

If the ECO has used this wording, and has included the calculations, you will only be able to argue a case if his figures are wrong, I suspect. If he has not included the wording, or the calculations, then you already have a case.

I do have some concerns about you saying that the ECO says that your wife's English is not good enough to get a job. That cannot be a reason for refusal, and if the ECO actually said this, you may have a valid complaint concerning that reason.

You can do your own calculations of course. This is the full guidance on "Maintenance" :

maintenance Feb 2014.pdf

Tony M

Hi Tony M. thanks for you reply. Yes i done the calculations from this site before in the application and even drew it out in the same format and included it with my income....

DLA £ 74 WEEKLY

ESA £ 162 WEEKLY

CHILD TAX CREDIT £113 WEEKLY

CHILD BENEFIT £ 33 WEEKLY

CHILD MAINTAINANCE £ 5 WEEKLY

HOUSEING BENEFIT £ 97 WEEKLY

i pay out HOUSING COST ie RENT === £ 97 WEEKLY council tax included with rent

THIS GIVES MY TOTAL INCOME £487 WEEKLY MINUS £97 RENT AND COUNCIL TAX. = £ 390 WEEKLY AFTER HOUSING..

[theoldgit]

People come onto this forum for advice, if you have meaningful advice then thank you for your time.

This is not a forum for troll type comments, if that's all you have to offer then kindly stay away.

A number of posts have been removed, as well as some reasoned responses.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Then you need the refusal notice to see how the ECO came to his conclusions. His figures will have to be different from yours.

Tony M

[thepool]

R4b

It is the refusal letter which is important.

Unless that is available no one can provide considered advise.

Please have that refusal letter scanned and posted ASAP. (redact personal detail)

Any internet shop can do this if the letter is in Thailand. All they need is an email address and the letter to scan.

[r4b]

Then you need the refusal notice to see how the ECO came to his conclusions. His figures will have to be different from yours.

Tony M

Yes Tony M, this is what i a trying to say, i believe him to be wrong in all the research i have done. He has said my benefits income cannot be used for adequate maintaince. ONly that of my DLA and CHILD MAINTAINCE can go towards this. .

[r4b]

My wife is in the middle of writing the letter out in email so hopefully i can have it up when she finishes. thanks

[marstons]

R4b

It is the refusal letter which is important.

Unless that is available no one can provide considered advise.

Please have that refusal letter scanned and posted ASAP. (redact personal detail)

Any internet shop can do this if the letter is in Thailand. All they need is an email address and the letter to scan.

Think this is about the 6th time this has been mentioned, if OP wife cannot fax, scan some where then as the saying goes the Lord helps those who help themselves.

[r4b]

REFUSAL FOR RELATIONSHIP

you say that you met your soponsor in 2012 when he was in thailand on
holiday . you say that you began a relationship with him when he
returned in 2013 when he come to see his father who was in hospitata.you say that you spent 6 weeks togetter in that time and
your husband says he returned afew weeks later in the year and spent a
futher 4 weeks here as evidence you have sent 7 photos of you together
appparently taken on 4 separate occasions. i acknowledge that your
husband says you have also spent significant time on line getting to
know each other bet the 28 pages of internet chats you have sent
contain littel of any substance and do not appear to show the
development of a relationship to the point of marrage. i acknowledge
that you have you applied for a visa to the uk to see this
sopnsor. but you have very littel proof of sort of relationship
togetter and have not adequaately explained why. haveing spent only 7
weeks togetter .you decided to marry. there is no proof of how this
relationship developed to the point of marriage or of why.having spent
only a short time togetther. you decided to marry so quickly.
partcularly as your sponsor has 2 yonung children living with him who
you have not met . iam minful that your husband has visited thailand
and supports this application.but the motvation for this union is not
clear .and on balance.given all of the above factors,i amnot satified
your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting or that
you intend to live togetter permanently in the uk .i therefore refuse
you r aplication under paragraph e cp 1 1

THIS IS NOT CORRECT AS CLEARLY IN MY SPONSER LETTER IT WAS SAID AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY FLIGHTS ETC THAT IN APRIL I WENT OUT FOR 6 WEEKS AND RETURNED TO THE UK FOR 3 WEEKS THEN I RETURN TO THAILAND 4 WEEKS IN JUNE AND AGAIN I WAS OUT NEARLY 3 WEEKS FEB.. ALL TICKETS BOARDING CARDS WHERE PROVIDED

[r4b]

REFUSAL FOR RELATIONSHIP

you say that you met your soponsor in 2012 when he was in thailand on

holiday . you say that you began a relationship with him when he

returned in 2013 when he come to see his father who was in hospitata.you say that you spent 6 weeks togetter in that time and

your husband says he returned afew weeks later in the year and spent a

futher 4 weeks here as evidence you have sent 7 photos of you together

appparently taken on 4 separate occasions. i acknowledge that your

husband says you have also spent significant time on line getting to

know each other bet the 28 pages of internet chats you have sent

contain littel of any substance and do not appear to show the

development of a relationship to the point of marrage. i acknowledge

that you have you applied for a visa to the uk to see this

sopnsor. but you have very littel proof of sort of relationship

togetter and have not adequaately explained why. haveing spent only 7

weeks togetter .you decided to marry. there is no proof of how this

relationship developed to the point of marriage or of why.having spent

only a short time togetther. you decided to marry so quickly.

partcularly as your sponsor has 2 yonung children living with him who

you have not met . iam minful that your husband has visited thailand

and supports this application.but the motvation for this union is not

clear .and on balance.given all of the above factors,i amnot satified

your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting or that

you intend to live togetter permanently in the uk .i therefore refuse

you r aplication under paragraph e cp 1 1

THIS IS NOT CORRECT AS CLEARLY IN MY SPONSER LETTER IT WAS SAID AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY FLIGHTS ETC THAT IN APRIL I WENT OUT FOR 6 WEEKS AND RETURNED TO THE UK FOR 3 WEEKS THEN I RETURN TO THAILAND 4 WEEKS IN JUNE AND AGAIN I WAS OUT NEARLY 3 WEEKS FEB.. ALL TICKETS BOARDING CARDS WHERE PROVIDED

MORE TO FOLLOW

[r4b]

financial requirements
your sponser is exempt from meeting the requrements of paragraph e
ecp.3.1 as he is in receipt of disability living allowance.in order to
meet the requirements of these rules you and your sponser must be abel
to maintain and accommodate yoursevlves and any dependents adequately
in the uk with out recourse to public funds. your sponser receives 74
each week in dla .he also receives employment support allowance, child
tax credit,child benefit and housing benefit however esa ,child tax
credit, child benefit and hb are in come related benefits and as such
are not premissible for inclusion in any financial year.

Edited March 27, 2014 by r4b

[thepool]

Is what you have posted the actual refusal letter ?

Headed "REFUSAL FOR RELATIONSHIP" ?

I think many will doubt the validity of this post which contains many errors relating to the use of English .

Sorry I do not believe this originated from an ECO based in the British Embassy.