Charity work and work permits - you have to have a work permit ! Does Thailand want help?

[kitkathai]

I could not believe that Thailand does not allow expats on either what are commonly referred to as "Retirement visas" to do voluntary work. I wanted to help a small community based organisation but learned I had to get a work permit to protect them and myself. It was going to cost for them to get legal advice and provide the complex administrative support and make it not worthwhile then the amount of time I would have had to devote on a regular basis. They simply gave up and said it was too difficult after trying to do everything.

Both the charity and I now have to either not work together or I have to risk being fined and deported.

I understand this is to stop sleazy farengs who try to get around legitimate ways to stay and earn money in Thailand. How many other countries would do this to charities in desperate need?

[PattayaPhom]

Singapore and UK amongst many others are the same....its not a Thai thing

[dddave]

Actually, most of the countries in the world require some form of employment documentation for volunteer or unpaid labor. As someone else pointed out, opportunists will use any loophole they can find to cover illegal work and quite honestly, sometimes hordes of eager volunteers are far more trouble than they are worth.

It became a contentious issue in Thailand during the crisis immediately following the Tsunami in 2004.

Edited April 2, 2014 by dddave

[connarandduncan]

I've met some so called foreign volunteers here without work permits and I sometimes pray to be forgiven for not having turned them in.

Just because someone wants to be a volunteer doesn't mean they are professionally or psychologically qualified; there must be some type of control and database.

If you were allowed in then the next guy allowed might be a pedophile or other sub-human thing.

[Dork]

I don't see how having a work permit for unpaid charity work would help an anyone (undesirable or not) with their immigration status in Thailand.

[samran]

If you are genuine about helping, then surely getting a work permit to do such things isn't really an issue?

[Dork]

It's difficult to offer the advice that I might because doing so may break forum rules. So I won't.

However I can say that I have been involved in various charitable projects in Thailand including some where I have had to liaise with govt. officials. Though I have a work permit for my day job that doesn't cover me for anything else. I suppose I am aware that this is technically illegal but that I could be prosecuted for it wouldn't even occur to me. I know that it won't happen.

For me, if it is worth spending my time then it is worth taking the (miniscule) risk that it would cause any problems.

[AyG]

If you are genuine about helping, then surely getting a work permit to do such things isn't really an issue?

It certainly was an issue in the aftermath of the tsunami in 2004. More help could have been provided faster had it not been for the authorities' insistence on work permits.

[Dork]

If you are genuine about helping, then surely getting a work permit to do such things isn't really an issue?

It certainly was an issue in the aftermath of the tsunami in 2004. More help could have been provided faster had it not been for the authorities' insistence on work permits.

As far as I recall there was some sabre rattling by local officials mainly brought on by squabbling amongst NGO's. But that was well after the initial relief efforts.

Was there any prosecutions? I haven't heard of any.

[streetlite]

I have been volunteer teaching in my Village school for the past 3 years and now have a 2nd school I visit once a week. I work with grades 1,2,3 and 4 for 1 maybe 2 hours per day. I have a Master's Degree in Education from the USA and I am a retired educator. I volunteer more for my benefit and sort of a "give back" mentality. I thoroughly love the students I work with. Small classes, Thai teacher support and full administrative support. Recently they had a 3 day evaluation from the Educational office in Bangkok. My school is several hundred miles northeast of Bangkok. Upon request by my Principal I was invited into the evaluations. I was hesitant because of the "volunteer" rules but he insisted that everything would be OK. I took the chance and it turned into a rewarding experience with everyone thanking me profusely for "helping our children". I've met all the Provincial education administrators and police throughout my volunteering and I've received nothing less than gratitude.

I haven't been deported yet so they must all be sincere. in their thanks.

[Soutpeel]

It's difficult to offer the advice that I might because doing so may break forum rules. So I won't.

However I can say that I have been involved in various charitable projects in Thailand including some where I have had to liaise with govt. officials. Though I have a work permit for my day job that doesn't cover me for anything else. I suppose I am aware that this is technically illegal but that I could be prosecuted for it wouldn't even occur to me. I know that it won't happen.

For me, if it is worth spending my time then it is worth taking the (miniscule) risk that it would cause any problems.

althouigh your correct on the "technically illegal" aspect however one suspects what would happen if somebody "challenged" you about having a WP and you pulled out the blue book and showed them your picture in it, most people will back off very quickly, of course you could still have an "anal" immigration guy trying to nail you to the letter of the law...

Many years ago when I first came to Thailand, I went to go and look at some equipment from one of the vendors which was close to our offices, had a look at the equipment and rejected the equipment, and had the rather irate owner of the company threatening to phone police, immigration, the Prime minister, because I had come to HIS premises and was working without a work permit, he was going to get me arrested ie...he went off on a real rant.

jumped back in car shot back the office grabbed my blue book out the desk, went back to the place put the WP in his face and asked him to phone cops, never seen someone back down so quick...

[ubonjoe]

In reality a person on a retirement extension should be a able to get a work permit based upon volunteering. The only requirement is a non immigrant visa entry.

But it is an unofficial rule not to do work permits for retirees. Although I have seen posts from people stating they had gotten a work permit as one.

I suspect the reason for not doing them for volunteer work is because a person could then change the reason for their extension to one for volunteering and avoid the financial requirements..

[stickylies]

all countries i have visited sofar (east/west) require official papers for charity/volunteering work.

back at home i have worked with volunteers (retired, unemployed, etc) and they all needed the necessary approval/documentation from the respective administration.

[jphantom]

Laws and regulations of all countries are made by the "ruling elite" of the moment....... This is a feudal society where the elite are desparate to protect their elite status.... of course at the expense of the broader population.

I no longer do charity work..... due to stupid rules and regulations...... its that simple. The red herring that such work permit rules must be in place to limit marginals and scam artists from preying on the unsuspecting is a lot of hooie!

Elites don't want change!

[stickylies]

we all know there are many ways to get things done here. talk to the right people with the right words using the right tone and all will be fine.

[Mario2008]

The WP would be 3,100 baht a year and no legal advice needed. The labour office is more than helpful in much cases to help with the application.

[stickylies]

tooktong...

Edited April 3, 2014 by stickylies

[recycler]

Laws and regulations of all countries are made by the "ruling elite" of the moment....... This is a feudal society where the elite are desparate to protect their elite status.... of course at the expense of the broader population.

I no longer do charity work..... due to stupid rules and regulations...... its that simple. The red herring that such work permit rules must be in place to limit marginals and scam artists from preying on the unsuspecting is a lot of hooie!

Elites don't want change!

You're right, helping people from being poor and ignorant will in the end kill the chicken with the golden eggs!

[long klong]

This regulation doesn't seem to apply to the Rotary Club. Its members do a lot of charity work and many of them do not have a work permit!

[BudRight]

Just to properly characterize Thailand's refusal to allow volunteer work without a permit;

Volunteering in the US requires no work permit, special visa or SSN provided you receive no goods, services or money in return.

Just tired of hearing how 'normal' Thailand's laws on this are.

Edited April 3, 2014 by BudRight

[belg]

thailand, the country where you have to pay, to work & help for free

they should not allow farang to come here on a volunteer visa, which does not excist, but for crying out loud, we already have a valid visa/reason to be here (retirement, non-o), so it is not that we would abuse the system of wanting to stay here in a fake reason, like many ED visa tourists...

but whatever... TIT ... 3rd world country & thinking pattern...

hi-so want to own everything, and do not want poor people to evolve to middle class or improve their life.

Edited April 3, 2014 by belg

[Dork]

Laws and regulations of all countries are made by the "ruling elite" of the moment....... This is a feudal society where the elite are desparate to protect their elite status.... of course at the expense of the broader population.

I no longer do charity work..... due to stupid rules and regulations...... its that simple. The red herring that such work permit rules must be in place to limit marginals and scam artists from preying on the unsuspecting is a lot of hooie!

Elites don't want change!

You're absolutely right. The rules on this issue are ridiculous and I would have no problem telling anyone in authority that is my opinion and that I have already broken the law, even if that happened to be the Minister of Labour (of course the present Minister would never break any laws would he, ha ha?). But I don't think you would find any single person that would seriously defend them. They would probably just laugh and tell you not to worry. It's just the system.

Your reaction is also perfectly understandable and sometimes I have to fight hard not to let myself think that way. But the problem with that thinking is that, when doing charity work, the very people that you are trying to help are even more defenceless against unfair rules and regulations than you are. I try to remind myself that though the system definitely sucks sometimes, it's not personal.

[asiaexpat]

Just to properly characterize Thailand's refusal to allow volunteer work without a permit;

Volunteering in the US requires no work permit, special visa or SSN provided you receive no goods, services or money in return.

Just tired of hearing how 'normal' Thailand's laws on this are.

But volunteer work in USA does require Immigration approval and documentation in many cases including students, NGO workers, and Tourist Visa holders. Check out the law before doing any volunteer work in USA.

[Doc46]

I have been volunteer teaching in my Village school for the past 3 years and now have a 2nd school I visit once a week. I work with grades 1,2,3 and 4 for 1 maybe 2 hours per day. I have a Master's Degree in Education from the USA and I am a retired educator. I volunteer more for my benefit and sort of a "give back" mentality. I thoroughly love the students I work with. Small classes, Thai teacher support and full administrative support. Recently they had a 3 day evaluation from the Educational office in Bangkok. My school is several hundred miles northeast of Bangkok. Upon request by my Principal I was invited into the evaluations. I was hesitant because of the "volunteer" rules but he insisted that everything would be OK. I took the chance and it turned into a rewarding experience with everyone thanking me profusely for "helping our children". I've met all the Provincial education administrators and police throughout my volunteering and I've received nothing less than gratitude.

I haven't been deported yet so they must all be sincere. in their thanks.

Yes ,all is very well so far until you by accident step on someone's toes;;;;; than the S.h.i.t. hits the fan they will kick your A.r.s.e. out of LOC (land of cries) (

[larsjohnsson]

What would be the point of having the non immigrant visa O "volunteering work" if you could do it with any other visa, without wp?

Edited April 3, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Estrada]

This regulation doesn't seem to apply to the Rotary Club. Its members do a lot of charity work and many of them do not have a work permit!

Rotarians do not work on a daily basis for a charity. Someone who wants to volunteer on a weekly, monthly or yearly basis could run the risk of arrest. There was a problem during the February 2005 Tsunami in Phuket where many foreign volunteers helped rescue victims and recover bodies. The head of the Phuket Employment Service warned the volunteers that they should get work permits and any volunteers found without a work permit in March would be fined B30,000 and/or jailed for 3 years. However they did say that if presented with a letter from a recognised charity they would issue a work permit. Although strictly speaking you still need the right visa and not a retirement visa.

[Rumblecat]

I've met some so called foreign volunteers here without work permits and I sometimes pray to be forgiven for not having turned them in.

Just because someone wants to be a volunteer doesn't mean they are professionally or psychologically qualified; there must be some type of control and database.

If you were allowed in then the next guy allowed might be a pedophile or other sub-human thing.

That's a potent mix of paranoia and broken logic you've got going on there.

[connarandduncan]

I've met some so called foreign volunteers here without work permits and I sometimes pray to be forgiven for not having turned them in.

Just because someone wants to be a volunteer doesn't mean they are professionally or psychologically qualified; there must be some type of control and database.

If you were allowed in then the next guy allowed might be a pedophile or other sub-human thing.

That's a potent mix of paranoia and broken logic you've got going on there.

It's easy to write a short sentence but perhaps you could try the grown up thing and explain your statement.

I could easily turn around and accuse you of.................................

I had dealings with an NGO who took on foreigners without work permit or background checks and one of them hurt my children so you can go to Hell with your childish comment.

[SavageNZ]

Tanzania is much the same. You can always say you are just visiting the school or university or charity for the day. I was shocked to hear it would cost me $500 US odd (from memory) last year. The Charity told me to tell anyone that comes along that I was just visiting and dropping off pencils and books. The Charity wants help but they as in previous posts here do'nt want/need the hassle or want to be caught. It is a shame though. Good luck OP on getting around it somehow - keep at it.

[ppmacready]

This regulation doesn't seem to apply to the Rotary Club. Its members do a lot of charity work and many of them do not have a work permit!

Ive not met a Rotarian that was doing charity work, that had or needed a work permit.