Fee 10000$ per day, no acceptable move from hospital.Help!

[mamgo]

Sorry I did not update lomg time. We was busy to make many documents. Thank you everyone for your forum and help. We got 13000 from government money for child birth. Thank you for that advice.

[mamgo]

But our problems did not finish yet. Total price of Thammasat treatmemt is 700 000 bahts. We try to make agreement for pay by month slowly. Oir child is healthy but hospital doesnt allow to doscharge him. They promise they will but every day (3 days already)they mistake to complite documemts. We sighn everything already, paid some deposit and gave them passport and worlpermit. But hospital doesn allow our child discharge. Now we sleeping in coridor and waiting again tomorrow

I think they can not keep our chold anymore but they say we need wait or pay all total amount. Just i need advice if tomprrow they will not make docuents how to go? Whom we can ask help?

[Sheryl]

I am not really clear why they delay in discharge. If it is just red tape then with time it will resolve.

If they are refusing because the bill is not paid in full then you need to see the hospital Social Worker -- I'm not sure what the office will be called, maybe Social Work or Social Welfare, something like that, ti is where people with a problem paying the bill or other family issue go and that person(usually a woman) can help resolve things with the billing department. Not sure what the term will be in Thai. Usually (but not always) this office is on the ground floor. You will probably need a Thai speaker to find it and maybe also to talk with her.

You will also probably have t sign a repayment contract of some sort before your child is discharged.

If this advice does not work then since it sounds like you are under the Social Security plan for employed people, talk to the Social Security Office and ask them to intercede. Even though your child's care isn't covered, they have some influence. http://www.sso.go.th/

Glad to hear your baby pulled through. Goodl uck.

[Thai at Heart]

To be fair to Bumrungrad, the misinformation and lack of responsiveness to the parent's situation was occurring at a low level within the hospital and probably limited to a few individuals, and communication issues may have played a role as none of the parties involved were native English speakers. As soon as higher-ups were made aware of the situation, clearly and in writing, it was immediately resolved.

The moral of the story is to be firm, stick to your guns/assert your rights, put things in writing and to those in authority. Do not allow yourself to be fobbed off by lower level administrative staff nor by doctor(s).

As those of us living in Thailand know, "mai dai" ("cannot") often just means " "I don't want to bother" or "I don't know how to do what you ask" or "I don't understand exactly what you want and do not want to spend the time to try to figure it out" or "I'm not able/authorized to do this and I am too kreng jai to refer it to a higher up who could",

Along with "mai mee" it is a stock refrain and should not be too readily accepted at face value when it comes to health care issues. Rather it is often an indication that you need to move up the chain of command with your request.

OP: you still need to get the bill for that initial period resolved. Do not stop until you have gotten a full itemization of the medical supplies and medications and compared them to the patient record. Especially the medication.

Billing errors are a common occurrence.

Yes but who is authorising the exorbitant fees from the beginning ?

Certainly not the lowly staff.

Several years ago we had a price for a baby delivery package, think from memory it was 35k.

This was when we had to pay ourself.

Due to an awesome health ins broker we have, he got us in under insurance coverage for everything and when I signed off on the final bill....nothing different to what we were quoted in the initial package...the bill to the insurance company was circa 110k.

Same hospital.

This type of fraud is enormous in Thailand . it is theft. Simple.

[mamgo]

Thank you Sheryl!

Yesteray was really stressfull day. We came to Tammasat at 8 oclock in the morning. And 10 pm evening hospital staff still promised soon they will complite documents. But someone of them forgot or mistake sign and went home. So we waited untill today lunch time.

We went to the hospital Social Worker 2 weeks ago to make clear about our finincial condition. Also visited them on Fruday and Monday. All our sign was correct and complite. Itis amazing but after today talk with hospital Social Worker again they discount 700 000 bahts to 300 000 bahts. Still expensive but amazing discount.

Our child could discharge today. I prefer we never need stay in thai hospital inpatiant again!

About money at first we will try to apply to health government insurance (if they will accept) in our country. Now waiting for process citizen of our child. Then depend on result we will think what to do.

Thank you everyone. Wish you good health!

[Sheryl]

Thank you for the feedback. I am extremely happy to know that the system worked in that the Social Worker really helped you, even though you are not Thai, this is actually the first experience I have had (indirectly) of a foreigner seeking help from the Govt Hosp Social Worker so it is very good to know.

Government hospitals are always full of red tape and inefficient bureaucracvy, it is not unusual for them to be slow in processing paperwork.

Can I ask what your impression was of the quality of the medical care your baby received there? As this is also the first time I will have the chance to get feedbaxk o nthe NICU at Thammasat.

[NancyL]

Sheryl, here in Chiang Mai, the social workers at the Suan Dok gov't hospital (admittedly it's the tertiary level gov't hospital -- part of CM University) are more than willing to assist foreigners. But, there are big problems with language and in trying to communicate the workings of hospital bureaucracy to the patients and their families. On the other side, the social workers have trouble understanding that foreigners often don't have family members (or friends) available for post-discharge care and can't understand why family members won't fly in from overseas to do this chore. So, it's a matter of educating both sides to encourage them to work together.

I've also assisted social workers at the gov't neurological hospital (yes, it's part of CMU, now that I think about it) and Nakorn Ping, the district hospital. In all these hospitals, I've found the social workers to be willing to negotiate long-term payment contracts and to assist in post-discharge care planning. Actually, they're often more caring than people in similar positions at private hospitals.

Edited April 30, 2014 by NancyL

[mamgo]

Sheryl, thank you! Thammasat hospital NICU equipment that we need is same as in Burmrungrad. I think quality of medical service is good also. When they use some medication every time automatic add or reduce medicine depend on how much it need.

Doctors are very young (looks just finished university) but enought competent.

Just I doubt about the hospital fee 700000 bahts. I think its too expensive (for thai government hospital) even after discount.

NancyL, you are right. Hospital Social Sercive people looks nice (much more than Burmrungrad workers) but better use thai language for communication.

Finally we paid 10000 bahts initial payment in Thammasat (in Burmrugrad 100000). Next time in Thammasat need pay in July (for burmrungrad in May). Thammasat accept 2 years payment contract (but can not more than 2 years). Burmrungrad 1 year contract with 7% at interest.

On the other side, the social workers have trouble understanding that foreigners often don't have family members (or friends) available for post-discharge care and can't understand why family members won't fly in from overseas to do this chore.

Yes, Thammasat hospital want I stay with my child for take care but they did not accept my 4 years old daughter stay together.

Edited April 30, 2014 by mamgo

[Sheryl]

Sheryl, thank you! Thammasat hospital NICU equipment that we need is same as in Burmrungrad. I think quality of medical service is good also. When they use some medication every time automatic add or reduce medicine depend on how much it need.

Doctors are very young (looks just finished university) but enought competent.

Just I doubt about the hospital fee 700000 bahts. I think its too expensive (for thai government hospital) even after discount....

Good to know, thanks. The doctors would indeed be recent graduates though somewhere in the background is a more experienced one supervising.

Did you find they were OK about informing you/explaining your baby's condition? That is often the biggest complaint people have about government hospitals.

The 700,000 baht fee does not surprise me. In fact I would have expected higher but probably the fact that the most expensive things (initial tests etc) had a;ready been done at Bumrungrad reduced the cost at Thammasat. ICU care is very expensive and NICU the most of all.

I have known people to have bills exceeding several million baht at government hospitals (though these were with really long ICU stays and multiple surgeries). But of course, whatever the cost is, it is much, much lower than at any private hospital.

[citizen33]

Just wanted to add my voice to those expressing appreciation for Sheryl's efforts on this thread - she is indeed one of TVF's greatest assets,

[mamgo]

Did you find they were OK about informing you/explaining your baby's condition? That is often the biggest complaint people have about government hospitals.

Yes, it was really OK. Doctors explane everything very well in English. Even without our questions. Even they explane by show and draw medical pictures for us.

I have known people to have bills exceeding several million baht at government hospitals (though these were with really long ICU stays and multiple surgeries). But of course, whatever the cost is, it is much, much lower than at any private hospital.

It is horrible stories if they dont have insurance. I though if something happen in America, Europe or Japan it could be very expensive. But I never imagine like that price in Thailand. I think it is very hard to pay for local people.

Some babies in nicu room waited for surgeries (our child did not) probably it was very expensive too.

Thank you for useful information!

[Sheryl]

Local people are covered by government health care scheme, pay very little as Thailand has a system of universal health care.

The problem is for foreigners.

[paz]

It is horrible stories if they dont have insurance. I though if something happen in America, Europe or Japan it could be very expensive. But I never imagine like that price in Thailand. I think it is very hard to pay for local people.

Not in Europe, there is public health system. At least in my country if anyone (no matter nationality and immigration status) has an emergency, including giving birth, will be treated to the best of their possibilities until discharged. Even if given a bill, payment will not be enforced. In fact our public hospitals don't even have a real billing department. Either you're admitted (depending on availability), or you are not, money is never an issue.

Glad to know your baby is out of danger, best of luck and don't worry about the money, one way or another you will find a solution, just remember that Thailand is not your country and it never will be.

Edited May 4, 2014 by paz

[kriswillems]

It is horrible stories if they dont have insurance. I though if something happen in America, Europe or Japan it could be very expensive. But I never imagine like that price in Thailand. I think it is very hard to pay for local people.

Not in Europe, there is public health system. At least in my country if anyone (no matter nationality and immigration status) has an emergency, including giving birth, will be treated to the best of their possibilities until discharged. Even if given a bill, payment will not be enforced. In fact our public hospitals don't even have a real billing department. Either you're admitted (depending on availability), or you are not, money is never an issue.

Glad to know your baby is out of danger, best of luck and don't worry about the money, one way or another you will find a solution, just remember that Thailand is not your country and it never will be.

Well, in Europe, if you're a non-resident, you pay the full price, which is actually not very different from what you would pay in a private hospital in Thailand.

The fact that they don't have a billing department which you can physically go to pay, doesn't mean that you don't have to pay the bill.

If you don't pay and you're still in the country, you'll eventually get in trouble.

That said, I think that it's remarkable that European healthcare is sometimes cheaper than Thai healthcare.

For instance the full price of IVF treatment is lower in many European countries than it is in Thailand.

If you've got a very serious problem (life threatening), which requires very specific imported medicines or implants Thailand is probably not the place to be.

If you go for a standard treatment, which are usually offered in packages, Thailand might be cheaper.

I am very happy for the thread starter everything turns out ok.

The fact you got a reduction from 700000 to 300000 B is really special.

The next 2 years might be financially harder, but hey, it's only 2 years.

Just think about it like you've lost a new car.

It's bad luck - but what's important is that you're alive and well.

Edited May 5, 2014 by kriswillems

[CaptHaddock]

Just wanted to add my voice to those expressing appreciation for Sheryl's efforts on this thread - she is indeed one of TVF's greatest assets,

Certainly true. Sheryl, how is it that you come by your very detailed knowledge of the Thai healthcare system? Are you or were you a nurse? Have you worked in a hospital here?

[Issangeorge]

Just wanted to add my voice to those expressing appreciation for Sheryl's efforts on this thread - she is indeed one of TVF's greatest assets,

Certainly true. Sheryl, how is it that you come by your very detailed knowledge of the Thai healthcare system? Are you or were you a nurse? Have you worked in a hospital here?

A little bit sexist there? Why not a doctor?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app