Help! Thai wife buys house but farang husband has no rights?

[Stan7444]

_{One point that has been raised here is of the wife making a will. I had a will drawn up more than 20 years ago leaving everything to my husband then on to closest relatives if he goes before me, but tomorrow I can make a new will leaving everything to the lost dog's home or whoever I choose to. I don't even have to tell anyone I've changed my will and nobody will know that I have until I die and the relatives find out that they are getting nothing.}

_{I think relying on a will isn't very sensible; as I pointed out, I can change my will without anybody knowing about it. If I were in the business of cheating someone out of money, and I am in no way saying that this is the case for the OP, I would happily go to a solicitor and draw up a will to make everything look above board then go back to his office the next week and make a new one to replace it. Nothing at all illegal in that and I assume confidentiality laws would prevent the solicitor from telling anyone including a husband/wife.}

_{Quite surprised that nobody else picked up on this as it was the first thought that popped into my mind as I read it. Perhaps I just have an evil devious mind.}

Good point from obviously a woman's perspective and presume it has occurred in several cases that a woman changes her mind as to her Will and beneficiaries. This is also true in the West in that one can change their Will weekly if they so wish.

Since I have currently looking at getting into a marriage relationship with a Thai lady, in which the buying of a house is always the 1st question from every Thai I have met, these legal issues become critical. There is absolutely no way I will put my money into any house in which I have no control and can be arbitrarily kicked out in case of a "spat" or any other reason. The house or condo will be in my sole name for ownership, with 100% rights going to her upon my death, and I will not change my Will to prevent her from getting the house. That to me is fair, unless she wishes to put in some cash up front for such purpose, which is highly unlikely.

[larsjohnsson]

Why does she need a house in Thailand if you and family are living in UK? Don't do it! It is a gift and you have absolutely no rights. Like others have said read and consult with a lawyer first.

I have meet at least 25 farangs buying land/house for their GF. Most of them meet the girl less than a year before buying the house. And most of them had never owned a house in their home country!!

It doesn't matter how many people that warn them and tell them about the risk involved. It's like a drug, they don't listen. A few years later you find many of them in threads here about losing everything!!!

Edited April 8, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[rayongchelsea]

You nor your Thai/English son with only a foreign passport can ever "own" the land. I guess a Usufruct or something similar is a way to protect you in case of divorce, but a will written up properly by a Thai lawyer will protect you in case of your wife's untimely demise before you and give you total "control" of your assets, including land here. I invested heavily into land and house when I first came here ten years ago and had to sign the same form you mentioned saying I have no financial interests in the land, however I got a Thai will drawn up that gives me control over the land until my death or sale of the land (and house). This is legal.

I did it because this happened to an American friend who lives here. He, luckily, had this type of will drawn up as soon as he bought property here in his wife's name (who was the same age as him). He did it to keep the family vultures from swooping in upon her death and taking everything from him. The will stated (as mine does) that if the Thai wife passes away before the foreign husband, the husband has a right to live in the house for the rest of his life, or sell the land and house and keep the proceeds. My friend's wife did pass away about ten years ago. He lived in the house until last year when he sold it for 28m baht that went into his bank account.

On his advice I had the same type of wills (you may want one for you and one for your spouse) drawn up for us. I used a very professional law firm (same one he used) called Pensit and Laws in Bangkok. It covers my wife's farm, her family home in Issan which are both in her name and land and houses we own in Hua Hin. I can control, live on, lease out, sell, any of them as I wish upon her death before mine. If I die first, of course everything is hers, and if we both go together or when the last of us dies everything will go to our daughter who lives in California but has both Thai and U.S. passports.

My daughter was born in the uk, has both passports. Owns a house and land.

Can you explain whose name the chanote was in, when he sold for 28m..

On the death of his wife, did he actually go thru probate..?

Interesting..

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The Chanote was in his wife's name and yes he did go through probate and went to probate court along with a lawyer from the Bangkok firm I mentioned.

Thanks for the reply.

After the death of the wife , and after probate ,whose name was on the chanote.

Are you saying that for 10 years until sale he left it in his deceased wife's name?

I have been thru probate and my name was only allowed on the chanote as the administrator to administer the assets of my deceased wife.i am interested because they never really put any pressure for me to remove my name at anytime.

Many here will disagree with you about using lawyers. I have a good one, imperative in my opinion.

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[larsjohnsson]

After lifetime in uk property market and with Thai partner and with close friends fooled into buying Thai property that becomes a gift to the wife my suggestion is " don't buy, rent " unless you afford the capital loss which is what it is! Its a real challenge with Thai wives pushing this and its too easy for a brit used to uk clear regulations to misunderstand. Simple solution is to KEEP YOUR CAPITAL IN YOUR NAME and rent a home for your wife. That still leaves you able to leave capital to her when you die but avoids you unintentionally sacrificing hard earned capital which is the outcome if you buy in Thai. John W

+1

Very true, and good advice

[Thai at Heart]

My Thai wife from UK is soon ( hopefully) to purchase new house in HH with our monies + mortgage from a Thai bank. As I am in UK I have to sign & take to Thai embassy in London among other things something called a 'letter of confirmation'. I think this means I am signing as a foreigner ( even though I am spouse of Thai) that I have no ownership rights of this property especially on divorce or bereavement. Is this correct?

Moreover what about the children of our marriage, I guess our Thai son ( living in UK with both passports) has inheritance rights? Our UK born son ( half Thai/half English) with UK passport has no rights too as he is a foreigner too. He's 11 years old so presumably could get Thai passport too.

Its so dam confusing - in sum, sounds like farang buys property for wife and it's just like a gift , like a car or something. Farang has no rights whatsoever. Can any one help.

You have got this far and only just worked this out?

[rayongchelsea]

Why does she need a house in Thailand if you and family are living in UK? Don't do it! It is a gift and you have absolutely no rights. Like others have said read and consult with a lawyer first.

I have meet at least 25 farangs buying land/house for their GF. Most of them meet the girl less than a year before buying the house. And most of them had never owned a house in their home country!!

It doesn't matter how many people that warn them and tell them about the risk involved. It's like a drug, they don't listen. A few years later you find many of them in threads here about losing everything!!!

So have I. Why is this? Insane..and they always end up for the most part in some forsaken village which they have never heard of before..!!

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[hotrod4098]

T.I.T. This is Thailand. I was thrown out of 'our house' AFTER 12 YEARS LIVING TOGETHER. I had no rights at all and I have been living in a hotel for the past year !.

same me..kicked out after 4 years...

[ayayay]

Don´t refer to yourself as a "farang", it is just ignorant

[PattayaPhom]

I'm sorry, but I need to repeat myself from a previous post:

Don't buy real estate in Thailand.

There is plenty to rent here. Real estate investments rarely make financial sense. There is simply no reason to do it...ever.

Rent is wasted money....and for everyone one person that has lost becausse they bought out in the boonies or a shoebox condo, there are thousands that have made a nice profit while having the security and luxury of their own home instead of peeing money down the drain on rent.Tthose that cant afford tobuy will always be pro renting..pot, pee and penny springs to mind reading your post.

[slipperylobster]

My rent is a meager 2500 baht a month for 3 bedroom 3 bath one rai in the city (Udon)... It is a special deal

I would be dumber than a bag of rocks to purchase a home I could not own. Just the upkeep would cost more than that.

This allows me to put 20,000 baht a month in savings. Purchasing a home would be way more...and, because I can not own it...I can not profit.

Some things just do make sense. Renting in Thatiland is like paying for Insurance....you get to walk away relatively unscathed...when things go bad.

Much better than lost 4 or 5 million. I lose 30 thousand baht a year.....ten years would be 300,000.

Nobody in their right mind would invest in a home in Thailand, with the idea that they are going to make a fortune by selling it in a few years. It just does not work like back home. You pretty much are stuck with it for life...or you lose it entirely (premature divorce or just need to leave Thailand for any number of reasons).

[larsjohnsson]

I'm sorry, but I need to repeat myself from a previous post:

Don't buy real estate in Thailand.

There is plenty to rent here. Real estate investments rarely make financial sense. There is simply no reason to do it...ever.

Rent is wasted money....and for everyone one person that has lost becausse they bought out in the boonies or a shoebox condo, there are thousands that have made a nice profit while having the security and luxury of their own home instead of peeing money down the drain on rent.Tthose that cant afford tobuy will always be pro renting..pot, pee and penny springs to mind reading your post.

No way there are thousends that have made a good profit for every one person that have lost. It would be millions of farangs then that have made good profit!!!!!

And even if it was so, it's the girlfriend/wife that have made a profit. Not the farang.

It's not about "those who can't afford to buy will always be pro renting" I'm not allowed to buy even if I have millions of $

Edited April 8, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Konini]

I agree with you on the renting; it's not wasted money. When we were getting ready to sell up and leave Australia, our house sold the day it went onto the market which caught us by surprise and we weren't ready to leave. We had to lease a house for 6 months, and with the money in the bank from the sale of the (mortgage-free) house, the return we got more than covered the rent. We were in a bigger,newer house in a much better area with no bills apart from utilities, no worries about maintenance and a leaking tap was a phone call to the property manger to have a handy man come out and fix it.

Renting worked for us. Once we had taken the emotion out of owning our own home, we were better off. I did the figures several times because I couldn't believe we were better off financially, but we were. And in a better, bigger, newer house in a better location. We concluded at the time that we should have done it years earlier, as soon as the mortgage was paid. No matter what, we will never own again.

Just my opinion.

[ve741]

People generally love looking for their own problems...

Just buy a nice Condo in your name.. there's tons of them around in new construction that look like themed resorts. At least in Pattaya there are...

if she refuses.. then she might know about the whole land thing and that she would get the house if she divorces you.

Edited April 8, 2014 by ve741

[jcnbkk]

_{One point that has been raised here is of the wife making a will. I had a will drawn up more than 20 years ago leaving everything to my husband then on to closest relatives if he goes before me, but tomorrow I can make a new will leaving everything to the lost dog's home or whoever I choose to. I don't even have to tell anyone I've changed my will and nobody will know that I have until I die and the relatives find out that they are getting nothing.}

_{I think relying on a will isn't very sensible; as I pointed out, I can change my will without anybody knowing about it. If I were in the business of cheating someone out of money, and I am in no way saying that this is the case for the OP, I would happily go to a solicitor and draw up a will to make everything look above board then go back to his office the next week and make a new one to replace it. Nothing at all illegal in that and I assume confidentiality laws would prevent the solicitor from telling anyone including a husband/wife.}

_{Quite surprised that nobody else picked up on this as it was the first thought that popped into my mind as I read it. Perhaps I just have an evil devious mind.}

You know, I was wondering about that very thing myself..

[benalibina]

T.I.T. This is Thailand. I was thrown out of 'our house' AFTER 12 YEARS LIVING TOGETHER. I had no rights at all and I have been living in a hotel for the past year !.

same me..kicked out after 4 years...

With or without force ?

[Konini]

Quite surprised that nobody else picked up on this as it was the first thought that popped into my mind as I read it. Perhaps I just have an evil devious mind.

You know, I was wondering about that very thing myself..

About the will or my evil devious mind?

[Showbags]

^ exactly...wills are worth the toilet paper they are written on here.

Mind you...wondering if you can have any inclusions in a Will that make it invalid if it is changed without the husbands/wifes acknowledgement or some such thingy.....

Maybe a question for Somchai the lawyer...although he seems somewhat lacking

[Kwanting]

With usufruct she can not kick you out of the house but you can kick her out if you would like to do that. However, when you die the agreement dies with you and your son can not inherit.

Everything you want to know about usufruct:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/171307-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-usufruct-agreements-in-thailand/

Edited April 9, 2014 by Kwanting

[Just Destiny]

Go to

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

There are no taxes to be paid like a 30 year lease and it only costs 270 bt to register it and your name goes on the title deed.

Some law firms will charge 90,000 bt or have a local law firm do it for 7,000 bt

I have done it and it works.

The only way to go.

Can you give me the contact details of the lawyer who can do it for 7000 B?

[ve741]

Siam Legal International
Interchange 21 Building, 23rd Floor,
399 Sukhumvit Road, North Klongtoey
Wattana, Bangkok, Thailand 10110

Tel: 02 259-8100
Fax: 02 259-8025

Thailand: +66 2259-8100
US-Toll Free: 1-877-252-8831
United Kingdom: 0207-101-9301
Australia: 128-015-5273

[watcharacters]

Correct above mostly.

Get her to make a will and leave directly to the kids, bypassing the requirement to sell within a year if left to you.

However, if left to you, you can then simply transfer/sell it to your kids anyway.

As for divorce...I believe if you keep the records, you can claim half of it...50% of any assets raised after marriage can be split equally.

Making a will?

Can't a will be changed on any given day and, thusly, rendering any previous will obsolete?

[animatic]

Farangs can own a house, that naturally sits on land of course,

but can NOT own the land, so you need only sign 'no interest'about the land transaction,

And structure can still be yours.

There is usually a company of sorts created to own the land.

But it can be the wife alone, but then you lease the land for 30 years option for 3o more.

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Edited June 29, 2014 by animatic

[Bernard Flint]

Sorry on my last point - its quite general really but can be seen as ambiguous.In Thailand if the Thai wife passes away or 'the Farang -Thai couple' divorce does not the husband have some rights to the property especially after long marriage ? Surely we are not saying he is left with zero.

Foreigner can inherit property in Thailand, but will have to sell it within a certain period of time set by the court .

I would think that in a divorce he also can claim some part, since it are assets the wife acquired during the marriage, but you better ask that question in the Ask the lawyer forum.

sir you are correct

If not married get a last will and testament for both, quicly,as if your partner/gf dies first. her next of kin get the house, ie, mum/dad

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Your wife can legally leave you the house and land in her Will. But you will have to sell it within six months after taking possession. According to Thai law, all assets of a marriage belong to both partners, which means you could claim half the cost of the house/land sale if you divorce. In practice, I have yet to find a single case where a falang has walked away with half of anything!

Complete and utter rubbish.

Thai law says nothing of the kind.

And a racist to boot!

Has the OP stated his ethnicity at any point in this thread, I think not.

Edited June 29, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Bernard Flint]

Your wife can legally leave you the house and land in her Will. But you will have to sell it within six months after taking possession. According to Thai law, all assets of a marriage belong to both partners, which means you could claim half the cost of the house/land sale if you divorce. In practice, I have yet to find a single case where a falang has walked away with half of anything!

Complete and utter rubbish.

Thai law says nothing of the kind.

And a racist to boot!

Has the OP stated his ethnicity at any point in this thread, I think not.

I thought it was one year not 6 months.

[Dibbler]

If you don't understand the process you should have a Thai lawyer explain it to you. Don't sign any papers before you get legal advice. In any case as a foreigner regardless of your visa status you have no rights to be on the ownership papers for a house (tabien ban). The only "right" you may have is to be the guarantor of your wife's mortgage! The bank will come after you if she fails to make monthly repayments.

[NeverSure]

It doesn't matter how many good ways you find to protect your investment. So you have a lease on the land, for instance?

What good is that going to do when ten of her "brothers" show up and order you out?

The moment any Thai woman started pressing me to buy a house, I'd dig my heels in hard. There is a reason she's pressing for a house, and don't forget that many seemingly good marriages broke up after 25 or 30 years, not to mention 10 years. Often the other partner is caught completely unaware that anything is wrong.

Edited June 29, 2014 by NeverSure

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It doesn't matter how many good ways you find to protect your investment. So you have a lease on the land, for instance?

What good is that going to do when ten of her "brothers" show up and order you out?

The moment any Thai woman started pressing me to buy a house, I'd dig my heels in hard. There is a reason she's pressing for a house, and don't forget that many seemingly good marriages broke up after 25 or 30 years, not to mention 10 years. Often the other partner is caught completely unaware that anything is wrong.

Exactly right, except,

Often the man is completely unaware anything is wrong. It's rarely the woman caught out.

[Bazw57]

Why are all these guys so he'll bent on throwing there money away buying these woman a house.

Invest the money and rent for god sake and live in sin... Who said you have to marry them anyway.

Pay the rent and help to support them if you must but that is it.

If they don't like that arrangement them show them where the door is and send them on their way....

I mean pretty young woman almost grow on trees in Thailand so it's hardly going to hard to find a replacement .... Come guys, start using the big head for thinking instead of the small one down below.

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[arunsakda]

1) Do not get in a physical altercation with a Thai.

2) Do not purchase a home to be registered in a woman's name.

3) Do not open a business.

I was gifted these three jewels of wisdom early in my experience here as rules to live by

to maximize the chance your experience stays safe and worry-free in the Land of Smiles.

I follow them religiously and It's worked for me.

I will add the classic "Do not invest anything more here than you can afford to walk away from".

Edited July 15, 2014 by arunsakda