Want to set up small food area in my home

[irlguy1]

Hi
Not really sure where to post this and I am sure a lot of people are gonna just be negative or dismiss the idea but please no opinions just facts if possible.
I am a Falang married to a Thai can someone please tell me if we want to use our garden to have a small food area and sell home grown food is that allowed as long as my wife is running it. Do we need permits or anything or can anyone sell food from home.

Also if we sell food grown from the garden that has been taken care of by me but picked and sold by my wife would that be against the law without a work permit?
I would have no contact with money or direct dealing with the customers.
Thank you


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[sceadugenga]

I would say that you would have no problem at all.

If you look at the farming section here you will see a number of farangs running farms.

[kevvy]

I see why not. Have a "farang" near the village we are building selling pork with his wife.  He is very popular with the locals.. There is a free service on the forum"ask a lawyer" The only worry I have is that you grow them and your wife sells them . Maybe the BIB will look at this ... But I doubt it .Good luck . Where are you selling from , and what goodies you have ...

kevvy

[irlguy1]

I would say that you would have no problem at all.
If you look at the farming section here you will see a number of farangs running farms.

Yes I am always curious about that because Thai law says we cannot do farming or any job that basically a Thai can do so I am quite confused.
We would love to have our own farm but have been told by others I can't work on it unless it's a private farm for private use only.
:(


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[irlguy1]

I see why not. Have a "farang" near the village we are building selling pork with his wife.  He is very popular with the locals.. There is a free service on the forum"ask a lawyer" The only worry I have is that you grow them and your wife sells them . Maybe the BIB will look at this ... But I doubt it .Good luck . Where are you selling from , and what goodies you have ...
kevvy

From what I have been told yes the BIB could kick him out of the country for that...
I have ask the lawyer section and awaiting reply but so far it seems like a really vague subject.


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[AjarnP]

I'm sure you need a total of three permits as follows:
Simple trading license
License to sell "SURA" (alcohol and tobacco) if you do
License to sell "Imported SURA" means what it says
I'm not sure though whether this only applies to a "nittibukon" (company set up for the purpose) or Suan Bukon" private individual.
Your village headman is the best to ask and if he/she doesn't have an answer, try the Amperh.

[irlguy1]

I'm sure you need a total of three permits as follows:
Simple trading license
License to sell "SURA" (alcohol and tobacco) if you do
License to sell "Imported SURA" means what it says
I'm not sure though whether this only applies to a "nittibukon" (company set up for the purpose) or Suan Bukon" private individual.
Your village headman is the best to ask and if he/she doesn't have an answer, try the Amperh.

I have never heard of any of the roadside sellers or small garden sellers having a trading licence?

No alcohol or tobacco on sale we are considering allowing to bring your own booze and charging a small opening fee to bypass that. We would sell soft drinks only.


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[NamKangMan]

"if we sell food grown from the garden that has been taken care of by me" - see the below list of occupations reserved for Thai's.

 

At number one is "labour work" and at number two is "agriculture."

 

The work you describe is labour, in the agriculture sector.  You would be working illegally.  Of course, the chances of getting caught would be slim, but your chances of being arrested increase if/when you start taking customers from Thai's who will then inform police.

 

 

Under the Alien Employment Act, the following occupations are closed to foreigners and is reserved for Thai nationals only:

• Labor work except labor work in fishing boats under the next category below.
• Agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery, except work requiring specialized knowledge, farm supervision, or labor work in fishing boats, particularly marine fishery.
• Bricklaying, carpentry, or other construction work.
• Wood carving.
• Driving motor vehicles or vehicles which do not use machinery or mechanical devices, except piloting international aircraft.
• Front shop sale.
• Auction sale work.
• Supervising, auditing, or giving service in accountancy, except occasional internal auditing.
• Cutting or polishing precious or semi-precious stones.
• Haircutting, hairdressing, or beautification.
• Cloth weaving by hand.
• Mat weaving or making utensils from reed, rattan, jute, hay, or bamboo.
• Making rice paper by hand.
• Lacquer work.
• Making Thai musical instruments.
• Niello work.
• Goldsmith, silversmith, or gold-and-copper alloy smith work.
• Stone work.
• Making Thai dolls.
• Making mattresses or quilts.
• Making alms bowls.
• Making silk products by hand.
• Making Buddha images.
• Knife making.
• Making paper or cloth umbrellas.
• Making shoes.
• Making hats.
• Brokerage or agency except in international trading.
• Professional civil engineering concerning design and calculation, systemization, analysis, planning, testing, construction supervision, or consulting services, excluding work
  requiring specialized techniques.
• Professional architectural work concerning design, drawing-making, cost estimation, or consulting services.
• Dressmaking.
• Pottery.
• Cigarette rolling by hand.
• Tour guiding or conducting.
• Hawking of goods.
• Thai typesetting by hand.
• Unwinding and twisting silk by hand.
• Clerical or secretarial work.
• Providing legal services or engaging in legal work (except arbitration work sand work relating to defense of cases at arbitration level, provided the law governing the dispute
  under consideration by the arbitrators is not Thai law)s

[irlguy1]

Hi namkangman yes I already know about that long list that's why I mentioned that I wouldn't be dealing with customers or handling cash. As you will see in my second post I already said that I know Thai law says I cannot do farming unless for private use. Yet it seems many Falang (a lot on this forum) do indeed work farms ? Thats the problem nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer which considering the amount of people farming on this board I find quite unbelievable :(
I guess the wife is gonna have to do all the work and I will just take care of the part of the garden reserved for our own private food :)
thanks anyway though for taking time to reply.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited April 8, 2014 by irlguy1

[AjarnP]

The official line/rules and what actually happens don't always meet each other. Some say TIT!

[sceadugenga]

My Mrs quite often sells fish at the market, if she brings me something home out of the proceeds does this make me a beneficiary of the business?

 

[monty9]

You can say that you provide specialist supervision. A farang paradise, watching his wife work.

[onthedarkside]

You can say that you provide specialist supervision. A farang paradise, watching his wife work.

Best of luck with that

[NamKangMan]

Hi namkangman yes I already know about that long list that's why I mentioned that I wouldn't be dealing with customers or handling cash. As you will see in my second post I already said that I know Thai law says I cannot do farming unless for private use. Yet it seems many Falang (a lot on this forum) do indeed work farms ? Thats the problem nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer which considering the amount of people farming on this board I find quite unbelievable
I guess the wife is gonna have to do all the work and I will just take care of the part of the garden reserved for our own private food
thanks anyway though for taking time to reply.



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"nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer" - I've given you a proper answer, and supplied you with the relevant Thai laws.

 

Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it legal. :) 

[irlguy1]

Hi namkangman yes I already know about that long list that's why I mentioned that I wouldn't be dealing with customers or handling cash. As you will see in my second post I already said that I know Thai law says I cannot do farming unless for private use. Yet it seems many Falang (a lot on this forum) do indeed work farms ? Thats the problem nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer which considering the amount of people farming on this board I find quite unbelievable
I guess the wife is gonna have to do all the work and I will just take care of the part of the garden reserved for our own private food
thanks anyway though for taking time to reply.



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"nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer" - I've given you a proper answer, and supplied you with the relevant Thai laws.
 
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it legal. :) 

You haven't given me anything that I didn't already say in my own post.

:)


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[NamKangMan]

 

 

Hi namkangman yes I already know about that long list that's why I mentioned that I wouldn't be dealing with customers or handling cash. As you will see in my second post I already said that I know Thai law says I cannot do farming unless for private use. Yet it seems many Falang (a lot on this forum) do indeed work farms ? Thats the problem nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer which considering the amount of people farming on this board I find quite unbelievable
I guess the wife is gonna have to do all the work and I will just take care of the part of the garden reserved for our own private food
thanks anyway though for taking time to reply.



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"nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer" - I've given you a proper answer, and supplied you with the relevant Thai laws.
 
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it legal.

You haven't given me anything that I didn't already say in my own post.




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Let me clarify my post for you.  IT'S ILLEGAL! 

 

Is that a "proper answer?"
 

[kevvy]

I checked today with the guy selling in our soi . The bib come around once a week and get free goodies from him and go on their way . Doesn't make it legal though.

[irlguy1]

 

 

 

Hi namkangman yes I already know about that long list that's why I mentioned that I wouldn't be dealing with customers or handling cash. As you will see in my second post I already said that I know Thai law says I cannot do farming unless for private use. Yet it seems many Falang (a lot on this forum) do indeed work farms ? Thats the problem nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer which considering the amount of people farming on this board I find quite unbelievable
I guess the wife is gonna have to do all the work and I will just take care of the part of the garden reserved for our own private food
thanks anyway though for taking time to reply.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 
 
"nobody seems to be able to give a totally proper answer" - I've given you a proper answer, and supplied you with the relevant Thai laws.
 
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it legal.

You haven't given me anything that I didn't already say in my own post.




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Let me clarify my post for you.  IT'S ILLEGAL! 
 
Is that a "proper answer?"
 

No it's a smartass answer but thanks anyway.
Even <twats> can be helpful sometimes shame it's not this time.

You really need to chill out mate, maybe lie down in the garden for a while, or would that be regarded as work for someone who seems to be asleep for a living

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[irlguy1]

Just to clarify with everyone, the helpful ones and the not so helpful.
I already know it's illegal if I sell anything or do work without a permit.
My question was in relation to me tending to the area where my wife would pick and sell the food. I will not, I repeat NOT be picking or selling the food.
This area would have food for our own consumption which I am legally allowed to grow and pick and eat.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited April 11, 2014 by irlguy1

[NamKangMan]

@ irlguy1

 

It wasn't a smartass answer - I was just telling you a fact.

 

I'm very chilled.  I don't need to bend my back in the hot sun in a garden for a few baht, just to have the police come and take the pick of the crop, or arrest me and make me pay 20,000 baht for my freedom.

 

"My question was in relation to me tending to the area" - "tending the area" is illegal.  It doesn't matter who "picks and sells" the food.  You will be working illegally. 

 

You sound like you are trying to convince yourself that you will be doing nothing illegal.  Good luck with that. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2014 by NamKangMan

[irlguy1]

@ irlguy1
 
It wasn't a smartass answer - I was just telling you a fact.
 
I'm very chilled.  I don't need to bend my back in the hot sun in a garden for a few baht, just to have the police come and take the pick of the crop, or arrest me and make me pay 20,000 baht for my freedom.
 
"My question was in relation to me tending to the area" - "tending the area" is illegal.  It doesn't matter who "picks and sells" the food.  You will be working illegally. 
 
You sound like you are trying to convince yourself that you will be doing nothing illegal.  Good luck with that. 
 
 
 
 

Strange that the "Ask the lawyer section" said it would be ok.

As I said before it's impossible to get a proper answer.

But hey I am sure you know more than a real lawyer.

For the record I don't "need" to bend my back I actually like gardening and I like to be active. I wouldn't choose to be a lazy fat Falang.


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[Fiddlesticks]

Admin, I believe it is time to close this thread as it has become a pissing match.  

[irlguy1]

Admin, I believe it is time to close this thread as it has become a pissing match.  

I agree .
It's also the second thread of mine that has been hijacked by people with a bigger need to be an ass than a need to be helpful.
Gotta be said that a lot of threads seem to be getting negative or smartass comments on them lately and less are being helpful.
:(
It's a shame


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[onthedarkside]

 

Admin, I believe it is time to close this thread as it has become a pissing match.  

I agree .
It's also the second thread of mine that has been hijacked by people with a bigger need to be an ass than a need to be helpful.
Gotta be said that a lot of threads seem to be getting negative or smartass comments on them lately and less are being helpful.

It's a shame
 

I have been closely following this topic, In my opinion I would suggest that much good opinion has been aired.

 

Fact of the matter is that a work permit would be required for a foreigner if involved in any way with any sort of commercial (money making) enterprise. 

 

No doubt that in a quiet back water area then any sort of official regulation might be more relaxed, but that does not imply that it should be ignored.

[Fiddlesticks]

I read through all this thread a few times and I have to say that I do not see any attempt to hijack this thread.  I see questions being asked and answers being given.  As an unbiased observer, I read Nam Kang's replies and he seemed to be quite sincere in giving you his understanding of the applicable law.  OP, I see your replies and you do seem to be a little short in your handling of the replies especially given that folks have tried to give you advice.  Keep in mind that none of us are Thai lawyers and the best you can reasonably expect would be educated opinions.  I sincerely doubt you will find many in the Thai government that can give you a hard-n-fast answer because everything in Thai law seems to change based upon who you are, who you know or who you pay!  

 

If you are truly worried about the legality then may I suggest you ask a Thai attorney.  

 

Stix

[NamKangMan]

I read through all this thread a few times and I have to say that I do not see any attempt to hijack this thread.  I see questions being asked and answers being given.  As an unbiased observer, I read Nam Kang's replies and he seemed to be quite sincere in giving you his understanding of the applicable law.  OP, I see your replies and you do seem to be a little short in your handling of the replies especially given that folks have tried to give you advice.  Keep in mind that none of us are Thai lawyers and the best you can reasonably expect would be educated opinions.  I sincerely doubt you will find many in the Thai government that can give you a hard-n-fast answer because everything in Thai law seems to change based upon who you are, who you know or who you pay!  

 

If you are truly worried about the legality then may I suggest you ask a Thai attorney.  

 

Stix

 

Good post.

 

I can assure the OP that I have his best interests at heart, unlike a Thai lawyer, who may have his own wallet at heart.

 

Yes, we live in a corrupt country where money talks, and can make many breaches of the law disappear.  However, I believe the question was, basically, "is it legal" and not, "what can I get away with." 

 

On the basis of that question, I have posted accordingly and stand by my original advice to the OP. 

[irlguy1]

I read through all this thread a few times and I have to say that I do not see any attempt to hijack this thread.  I see questions being asked and answers being given.  As an unbiased observer, I read Nam Kang's replies and he seemed to be quite sincere in giving you his understanding of the applicable law.  OP, I see your replies and you do seem to be a little short in your handling of the replies especially given that folks have tried to give you advice.  Keep in mind that none of us are Thai lawyers and the best you can reasonably expect would be educated opinions.  I sincerely doubt you will find many in the Thai government that can give you a hard-n-fast answer because everything in Thai law seems to change based upon who you are, who you know or who you pay!  
 
If you are truly worried about the legality then may I suggest you ask a Thai attorney.  
 
Stix

 
Good post.
 
I can assure the OP that I have his best interests at heart, unlike a Thai lawyer, who may have his own wallet at heart.
 
Yes, we live in a corrupt country where money talks, and can make many breaches of the law disappear.  However, I believe the question was, basically, "is it legal" and not, "what can I get away with." 
 
On the basis of that question, I have posted accordingly and stand by my original advice to the OP. 

I never asked what I can get away with. My point about not getting a proper answer still stands.
Surely you can see from all the subsequent posts after my first post including your own that the advice and recommendations are all over the place? While I really do appreciate any real advice, it seems more and more pointless to ask a question here because the answers vary from
"My friend does it and has no problems"
To " it's illegal don't do it"
To " u can do it but if you get caught your in trouble"
To blah blah blah...
So what do I go and do? Yes as some recommended I asked the lawyer. Now he tells me it shouldn't be a problem but wow to my frustration another poster here says the lawyers are just trying to scam you for cash and can't be trusted.

So my question stands but appears I will never have a reliable answer.

If you all think I an unreasonable in my frustration well up to you.


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[irlguy1]

I read through all this thread a few times and I have to say that I do not see any attempt to hijack this thread.  I see questions being asked and answers being given.  As an unbiased observer, I read Nam Kang's replies and he seemed to be quite sincere in giving you his understanding of the applicable law.  OP, I see your replies and you do seem to be a little short in your handling of the replies especially given that folks have tried to give you advice.  Keep in mind that none of us are Thai lawyers and the best you can reasonably expect would be educated opinions.  I sincerely doubt you will find many in the Thai government that can give you a hard-n-fast answer because everything in Thai law seems to change based upon who you are, who you know or who you pay!  
 
If you are truly worried about the legality then may I suggest you ask a Thai attorney.  
 
Stix

So basically your saying nobodies "educated opinions" are of any real help because realistically nobody knows squat because the government change the rules to suit themselves. Then u suggest I ask the lawyer which incidentally I did to be told it was ok to do but hey as the law can change depending on your wallet it's really quite useless to get legal help.
And you wonder why I am frustrated ?
Jeez


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[irlguy1]

 

Admin, I believe it is time to close this thread as it has become a pissing match.  

I agree .
It's also the second thread of mine that has been hijacked by people with a bigger need to be an ass than a need to be helpful.
Gotta be said that a lot of threads seem to be getting negative or smartass comments on them lately and less are being helpful.

It's a shame
 

I have been closely following this topic, In my opinion I would suggest that much good opinion has been aired.
 
Fact of the matter is that a work permit would be required for a foreigner if involved in any way with any sort of commercial (money making) enterprise. 
 
No doubt that in a quiet back water area then any sort of official regulation might be more relaxed, but that does not imply that it should be ignored.

Opinion yes
Any real and helpful advise no.

I rest my case :(


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[Fiddlesticks]

 

 

 

Admin, I believe it is time to close this thread as it has become a pissing match.  

I agree .
It's also the second thread of mine that has been hijacked by people with a bigger need to be an ass than a need to be helpful.
Gotta be said that a lot of threads seem to be getting negative or smartass comments on them lately and less are being helpful.

It's a shame
 

I have been closely following this topic, In my opinion I would suggest that much good opinion has been aired.
 
Fact of the matter is that a work permit would be required for a foreigner if involved in any way with any sort of commercial (money making) enterprise. 
 
No doubt that in a quiet back water area then any sort of official regulation might be more relaxed, but that does not imply that it should be ignored.

Opinion yes
Any real and helpful advise no.

I rest my case


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Good morning irlguy1,

 

I guess I am somewhat confused now.  You DID ask a lawyer and you received a reply from a legal 'professional' yet you chose to ask the same question on a forum that is used by expats (none of whom would I expect to know more about Thai law than a Thai lawyer) to converse and share thoughts, observations and opinions and you were expecting a more definitive answer than you got from a Thai legal professional? ! ! ! 

 

OF course your confused now!  Please keep in mind that this is Thailand.  There are no absolutes here except death.  Look at the current situation within the government where not even the legislators understands the legality of the things they try to do and if they do, there are those who will bend the law to fit their agendas!  In Thailand laws tend to be 'soft', they tend to be guidelines for conduct but in the end most do what they want to do.  In the end, you can be legally 'right' but still end up in trouble if someone with more influence wants to get their way.  The opposite is also true, you can be legally wrong but if you secure the proper influence you can bypass the law.

 

So what you are seeing here in your thread is the result of the soft laws where nobody KNOWS what will happen with any absolute certainty.  The forum members try to be helpful but there are no black and whites and those who have lived with it long enough understand this and deal with it or they go back to home because they need the rigid structure of legal certainties.

 

I know this isn't what you hoped to hear but it is the reality of living in this culture. Wishing you and your wife the best of luck in your new venture.  

 

Cheers,

Stix