Minister slammed for proposal to seek royal judgement if PM is disqualified

[khunken]

Some folks here need to try and figure out what "Ammat" means & quit throwing it around like some code word. If you mean "elite" then use "elite". Actually, on the lips of the reds it is a code word, that even many Thais don't understand.

On PAD-DEM: Huh? What was left of the PAD and its political spin-off the NPP opposed the Dems in 2010 ("Vote No" remember?). After the Airport fiasco many, many anti-Thaksin folks turned against PAD (torching Bangkok cost the reds much support as well). Then when the PAD-NPP came out with its corporatist (proto-fascist in the technical sense) platform they lost all credibility and popular support. Even the madman Suthep isn't PAD.

--S

I can assure you every Thai knows what the Amaart is and it is very REAL and is kicking, screaming and using every means possible at the thought of losing it's feudal power

There is no "r". "ar" is an archaic way of writing a long "a", i.e. ahh. Like Khaosarn. Okay, having been pedantic... while I was researching the word several years ago I came across Thai-language forums where Thais were asking what "ammat" means and "Who are these ammat we are supposed to be opposed to??????" The answer: "come to the rallies (this was in 2010) listen to the speeches, ask the people around you. Then you'll find out." If you look in a dictionary, one of the definitions is "kharachakan", i.e. government worker. That's certainly not who the red leadership is refering to. Some people think it means those in service to His Majesty the King. Others just scratch their heads. Yes there is fuedal power here along with its abuses. Think how long it took Europe to get past that (if indeed it fully has) BTW, the attitude to political leaders is rather fuedal--rather than public servants they are often thought of as patrons who take care of their vassals and reward loyalty. I think we need to observe and comment constructively and let Thailand evolve. That doesn't mean we have to be neutral--I'm not--

Very observant and knowledgeable post.

Should be compulsory reading for those (e.g. Frysian Boppe) who riddle their posts with incomprehensible references to 'ammart' who are never defined.

It is probably more awkward to use the term 'elite' as it covers the rich, powerful & influential across all strata of Thai society. Kamnans, local leaders, local politicians, even local police would be the elite within their area. Would they be defined as 'ammat' too?

[Publicus]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

It is always the ammarts fault. Your fellow reds need tp look in the mirror and they would see who is wrong.

Who benefits from a coup whether it is a military mutiny coup d'état or a judicial coup d'état? Is it the farmer? The laborer? The minimum wage worker? The family that has to scrape, beg, borrow, steal, to pay for education past Grade 6? The restaurant server who rides the wooden box bus to work? The farmer's son who can't teach at the military academy as Abhisit did to avoid the firing line? A coup of any kind never does anything for these people or for others like them.

A coup is a coup is a coup.

Edited for typo.

It is likely that the average Thai will not directly benefit from a coup, nor will he be directly damaged by it.

Coups in Thailand aren't for the people, but more to do with "my turn at the trough".

Having/not having a coup will have little bearing on the condition described in your post.

There may be long term effects, but that's more to do with gradual change rather than a radical actions.

Situation of education didn't change an iota regardless of regime.

Any rich people (regardless of political affiliation) can avoid the draft, as it was always.

You have this compulsion to state the obvious concerning the content of my posts, one after the other. If I wrote the obvious into every post I made I'd be here all day and night writing even longer posts than you already are able to bear.

Thanks for the unnecessary and unwanted interest though. Why don't you try knitting to help pass your time.

[Old Man River]

Once again we are treated to all sorts of tangents, none of which relate to the actual suggestion by Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri, a former attorney general, and someone qualified to offer a comment on Thailand's constitutional law(s). What part of the legal comment do those of you offering negative comments disagree with? How was the reasoning, the legal argument flawed?

Instead of a coherent rational rebuttal, the thread is filled with the grunts and belches of people who haven't considered the actual legal issue(s) involved. The constitution sets out the procedures to be followed, and the justice minister has offered his opinion. It doesn't mean he is right, but the argument he has raised has yet to be countered. not one comment in this thread that provides an alternative argument based upon the constitutional law. Judging from the comments made, it seems that the subject matter is too difficult for some people to comprehend.

And your, independent, legal point is?

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I an not qualified to argue Thai constitutional law, but the Justice Minister and former attorney general who is far better qualified and educated than me, presented some rather sentient points, don't you think? If he has his constitutional law wrong, then please educate me. I haven't seen any arguments posted in this thread against his interpretation and application of the relevant law(s).

Actually, I thought you would argue 181, which, although I am more supportive of the anti-PTP, is what I would be arguing and I expect is what the PTP will be arguing.

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[shiok]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

full of crap!

[pkspeaker]

This is bu77sh1t! The feb2 election was not 'rife with corruption' EVERYONE knows the PT will win any election by a landslide, AND the democrats did worse in 2011 then they did in 2007, the more they pull this election sabotaging bullshit the worse they do at the polls, the electorate has lost all respect for them, the fthe other 50 parties that are not democrat or PT are not boycotting elections and want an elected government which makes the democrats even more isolated, the EC is pro-establishment/democrat so if there was any voter fraud they will be all over it, or one of the international orgs that monitor elections.. even if the election isn't perfect is doesn't matter because you have the the pro-democracy side winning by a landslide.. ALL the parties here are 'allowed to participate'. the demodictators decided to boycott and sabotage.

is a farm subsidy or new car tax refund or 'populist' policy 'vote buying'- NO, in the US the republicans win 'red' states with farm subsidies and defense spending, the democrats win blue states because of social programs like obamacare.. no one ever said that was 'vote-buying'

there is nothing wrong with the elections here, the problem is the democrats and establishment-backed by most of this countries billionairs and the military-are refuseing to play by the rules.

----------------------

There is no legitimate elected government at this time in Thailand.

It was an election in which most of the opposition candidates did not participate and which was shown to be rife with corruption anyhow.

Would you say that an election in the U.K. was "fair and democratic" if all the Tory party did not or was not allowed to participate.

The problem with you "Red Shirt sympathizers" is that you have you head so far up the red shirts backside all you can see is the view from their a--hole.

The one authority that COULD end this political deadlock is the royal family.

It's the one thing all Thai politicians claim allegiance to .... even if many of them don't really mean that .... and it's the one ultimate authority most Thai voters and citizens trust.

And that authority is the best answer to the corrupt self-serving Thai politicians of ALL Thai political parties in this time of political turmoil.

That's why it is needed.

[JamesHawkins]

Let's keep things in perspective, and not let PAD-Dem characterizations appear to be Democratically legitimate.

>>>>"Chaikasem, a former attorney-general, had told the media that if the Constitutional Court rules to disqualify Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for allegedly illegally transferring National Security Council secretary-general Thawil Pliensri,...."

For allegedly what?.......Same old, same old....Trying to obscure anti-democratic coup-activism by burying the motives under this issue or that.

This has nothing to do with transferring somebody, and everything to do with advancing the objectives of those agitating for a coup.

Using phoney issue and legality nonsense as cover doesn't fool anyone, unless it is in their interest to appear fooled....Their demonization mantra of categorizing all those who object to this folderol as being unlawful anarchists, can usually be traced back to its' source of unelectables.

"However, it would be problematic if Yingluck were to be disqualified and forced out of the caretaker's post"

Yeah, DUH!

The reaction of the electoral majority worries them....They are running in place, trying to muster enough courage to pull their 'coup-trigger".....Delaying elections, scheduling these coup advocacy actions via their user friendly judiciary later and later, etc. etc.

I am sure they are pining away for the good old days, like in 2006...When they didn't need to worry so....The unintended consequence of these dastardly UDD/Red Shirts who formed after that 2006 coup-caper, sure muddies the water this time.

Boppe/Bob: do you realize Chaikasem is the caretaker Justice Minister? Isn't it remarkable the PTP's own guy suggests this?

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Isn't he the guy who welcomed Suthep "With open arms and waiting meeting rooms" according to the media earlier this week..

It is one of the biggest knocks the UDD/RS have against the PTP....That they were too chickens... to follow through on their electoral planks of revising the Coup-rooted constitution and de-politicizing the judiciary.....

About current events, the UDD/RS are saying to the PTP.."Serves you right"

The Lumpini/DP crowd can't wait to actualize their coup, while pretending to be anti-govt and pretending to be protesters....and then quickly change the constitution so that a Prime Minister doesn't need to come from an election as the current constitution specifies.

Let's all watch the unelectables actualize this plan!

BANGKOK: -- The idea to seek a royal judgement in case of a political vacuum, proposed by the caretaker justice minister, has been slammed by both ruling and opposition politicians.

No, it is not. It was the Permanent Secretary in the Justice Ministry that met with Suthep. The caretaker Justice Minister is a PTP caretaker cabinet member. Try to get the players right when you make your vacuous postings.

[Fryslan boppe]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

...and what exactly do you believe that the world's reaction to the current situation is?

There is no point in you trying to infer that this is all because of the "transfer of one single government employee", because that would clearly represent the most extreme spin we have seen from any of you Red apologists in weeks...!! Attempting to undermine constitutional principles by removing someone from office for nepotistic reasons is just the tip of the iceberg, so please refrain from trying to make that the main issue.

You attempt to whitewash over the antics of the PTP and their terrorist supporters by referring to the occupation of the airport, a coup, and the current uprising by the people (not Suthep, as people of your ilk keep harping on). The one thing that all of these protests have in common is that they were aimed at getting Thaksin out of office for the damage that he was causing to the country.

You prefer not to make any mention of several noteworthy incidents, such as taking a vote at 4:00 am to dismantle part of the constitutional system, the attempts to give amnesty to everything relating to the 2010 turmoil and beyond (including of course, your precious leader, Thaksin), refusal to allow opposition parties to have their say in political debate, allowing (possibly even encouraging) party members to cast votes (multiple votes) on behalf of other members, coercion of anyone opposing the PTP stance (particularly in Red Villages), threats to the families and property of farmers who intended to go to Bangkok to protest against what they now see as a corrupt government, and last but not least, the numerous peaceful demonstrators who have been shot and killed, including children.

All of this is ignored essentially because it doesn't suit your agenda, does it?! You also continuously use the term 'ammart', when in fact, none of those who were responsible for creating the current movement to oust this corrupt government has any position in the bureaucratic polity or the Royal household. Do you actually understand who the ammart are? They are certainly not the people on the streets, or their leaders...!

To many people it is clear that in most Western nations, this PM and her Cabinet would have been suspended, impeached, indicted, tried, found guilty, and be serving time for what they have done to this country, and all of that would have happened quite some time ago. I suspect that, contrary to your supposition, the rest of the world may be wondering how on earth it’s taken so long for the judicial system to come into play to oust these villains…!

Good post

Let me clarify some of this typical PAD-Dem mantra's and spinning

>>>>>You attempt to whitewash over the antics of the PTP and their terrorist supporters

Everything ever undertaken by the PTP and UDD/red Shirts was in 'reaction"...reacting to the theft of their votes by those who cannot garner enough on their own to gain political power...This inability to acquire votes has reasons...Then to ignore that fact, and focus on the resistance to that theft, as if it was in a vacuum, speaks for itself.....

Calling a large segment of the electorate whose votes they will need to ever have any chance of electoral success - terrorists - is really, really smart.

>>>>>Attempting to undermine constitutional principles by removing someone from office for nepotistic reasons is just the tip of the iceberg, so please refrain from trying to make that the main issue.

You are correct...that is not the main issue at all.....It is merely cover for coupist intentions....and is completely made up anyway. Opposition trying to manufacture something irrelevant, all in the service of coup advocacy.

That entire paragraph dealing with opposition noise, accusing of 4:00AM stuff, anti-constitutional allegations, amnesty, curtailing opposition debate, multiple voting, alleged coercive stuff, etc., etc...is all just opposition folderol which they are afraid to debate in a televised Parliament or present to the electorate.....Consider its'source and their lack of confidence in presenting it to voters...That lack of confidence has reasons..But amazing, how many Farangs will take that Opposition stuff as gospel.

All of this is ignored essentially because it doesn't suit your agenda

I'm not ignoring it....any attention and knowledge at all, blows it out-of-the-water....Come on you brave opinionated PAD-Dem's...Take it to the electorate, take it to Parliament....No you say, with fearful trembling ?...need I say more.

>>>>"...none of those who were responsible for creating the current movement to oust this corrupt government has any position..."

No-one is involved in a movement to oust a Govt......They are involved in coup-activism....It is all about power, and they cannot acqwuire it electorally...so they go the coup route...Don't give me this holier-than-thou nonsense about being anti-Govt or being protesters...they are neither of those.

>>>>To many people it is clear that in most Western nations, this PM and her Cabinet would have been suspended, impeached, indicted, tried, found guilty, and be serving time for what they have done to this country,

It is not clear at all, because it is the "big lie"...In western nations this Opposition noise would have been taken to the electorate, for their judgment...The fact they refuse to do it here, speaks for itself...The term "Cowardly" comes to mind.

>>>>>"...how on earth it’s taken so long for the judicial system to come into play to oust these villains…!"

Trying to normalize the abnormal judiciary are we?...That smoke may play with an international audience, but don't assault our intelligence with it.

[pkspeaker]

>>Article 7 of the Constitution says that in case there is no applicable law cited in the charter, the decision should be taken according to tradition under the Constitutional monarchy.

Getting back to the topic.., Section 7. First of all the Constitution clearly says the PM must be an MP-power in any parliamentary democracy rests in the lower house, not the Senate,.. there are no MP's if Yingluck AND her entire cabinet are forced out by these bogus proceedings.. So if the establishment then decides to interpret Section 7 their way, and puts in their guy, a guy that the Constitution states is not eligible(and gives him and his 'peoples council' full powers(as opposed to the caretaker powers that Yingluck has)..and they then forward this to the King for him to sign-off on it-that will be a sad day, very sad..it forces the monarchy into a very difficult position-telling them to sign onto something that is internationally illegitimate, and something that is going to anger or at least annoy the large majority of the Thai population .. it would be a disaster..

There seems no end to the ammart's destructiveness, they would rather see this country destroyed then lose power.

Edited April 13, 2014 by pkspeaker

[pmugghc]

Let's keep things in perspective, and not let PAD-Dem characterizations appear to be Democratically legitimate.

>>>>"Chaikasem, a former attorney-general, had told the media that if the Constitutional Court rules to disqualify Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for allegedly illegally transferring National Security Council secretary-general Thawil Pliensri,...."

For allegedly what?.......Same old, same old....Trying to obscure anti-democratic coup-activism by burying the motives under this issue or that.

This has nothing to do with transferring somebody, and everything to do with advancing the objectives of those agitating for a coup.

Using phoney issue and legality nonsense as cover doesn't fool anyone, unless it is in their interest to appear fooled....Their demonization mantra of categorizing all those who object to this folderol as being unlawful anarchists, can usually be traced back to its' source of unelectables.

"However, it would be problematic if Yingluck were to be disqualified and forced out of the caretaker's post"

Yeah, DUH!

The reaction of the electoral majority worries them....They are running in place, trying to muster enough courage to pull their 'coup-trigger".....Delaying elections, scheduling these coup advocacy actions via their user friendly judiciary later and later, etc. etc.

I am sure they are pining away for the good old days, like in 2006...When they didn't need to worry so....The unintended consequence of these dastardly UDD/Red Shirts who formed after that 2006 coup-caper, sure muddies the water this time.

Boppe/Bob: do you realize Chaikasem is the caretaker Justice Minister? Isn't it remarkable the PTP's own guy suggests this?

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Isn't he the guy who welcomed Suthep "With open arms and waiting meeting rooms" according to the media earlier this week..

It is one of the biggest knocks the UDD/RS have against the PTP....That they were too chickens... to follow through on their electoral planks of revising the Coup-rooted constitution and de-politicizing the judiciary.....

About current events, the UDD/RS are saying to the PTP.."Serves you right"

The Lumpini/DP crowd can't wait to actualize their coup, while pretending to be anti-govt and pretending to be protesters....and then quickly change the constitution so that a Prime Minister doesn't need to come from an election as the current constitution specifies.

Let's all watch the unelectables actualize this plan!

Wrong! That was Kittipong, the Permanent Secretary. Chaisakem is the PTP's caretaker Justice Minister, i.e. YOUR guy. He came up with this "personal" suggestion.

Jeez, for a man with your position and stature, can't you even keep track of your own ministers?

But you and others are too blinded with your hate for Suthep, he has to be dragged into every thread.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Chaikasem-reprimands-Justice-permanent-secretary-f-30231196.html

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[pmugghc]

Let's keep things in perspective, and not let PAD-Dem characterizations appear to be Democratically legitimate.

>>>>"Chaikasem, a former attorney-general, had told the media that if the Constitutional Court rules to disqualify Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for allegedly illegally transferring National Security Council secretary-general Thawil Pliensri,...."

For allegedly what?.......Same old, same old....Trying to obscure anti-democratic coup-activism by burying the motives under this issue or that.

This has nothing to do with transferring somebody, and everything to do with advancing the objectives of those agitating for a coup.

Using phoney issue and legality nonsense as cover doesn't fool anyone, unless it is in their interest to appear fooled....Their demonization mantra of categorizing all those who object to this folderol as being unlawful anarchists, can usually be traced back to its' source of unelectables.

"However, it would be problematic if Yingluck were to be disqualified and forced out of the caretaker's post"

Yeah, DUH!

The reaction of the electoral majority worries them....They are running in place, trying to muster enough courage to pull their 'coup-trigger".....Delaying elections, scheduling these coup advocacy actions via their user friendly judiciary later and later, etc. etc.

I am sure they are pining away for the good old days, like in 2006...When they didn't need to worry so....The unintended consequence of these dastardly UDD/Red Shirts who formed after that 2006 coup-caper, sure muddies the water this time.

Can you write one, coherent paragraph?

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What do you expect from a lawyer?

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Ok, an attorney not being paid explains it all.

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Not so fast about not being paid! It could well be the very opposite, could Boppe be Bob?

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[fab4]

Typo in my previous, #38 removal upon conviction is provided for in Article 182(7) & 180 (not 268). Sorry.

I can't find where the constitution provides for what happens after the PM & ministers are removed. If convicted, I'd expect another court case to decide whether they should remain in a sort of caretaker caretaker status. In any case it seems to be un"charted" territory & intervention by HM the King under Article 7 would seem to be the only route. A somewhat similar constitutional crises occurred under TS--the max time elapsed for sitting a new government after dissolving parliament. Constitutionally Thailand had no government & he was ruling by edict. The King did not step in and we had a coup instead.

I.e. the writers put impossible situations (see also the 20% rule) into both constitutions.

"Constitutionally Thailand had no government & he was ruling by edict. The King did not step in and we had a coup instead."

Well actually he did, otherwise there wouldn't have been a Royally decreed Election scheduled initially for October 15th 2006. Of course the coup trampled all over that "unfortunate" part of democracy.

The 20% rule no longer exists as a stumbling block as abhisit amended the 2007 constitution with respect to the organic law on elections. Now by elections will continue to take place until the third by-election. Whoever has the most votes at that stage wins the seat regardless of the number of votes cast or parties contesting the seat. Other impossible situations in the 2007 constitution seemingly hold no fear for the present CC who make up decisions as they go along.

[Publicus]

Some folks here need to try and figure out what "Ammat" means & quit throwing it around like some code word. If you mean "elite" then use "elite". Actually, on the lips of the reds it is a code word, that even many Thais don't understand.

On PAD-DEM: Huh? What was left of the PAD and its political spin-off the NPP opposed the Dems in 2010 ("Vote No" remember?). After the Airport fiasco many, many anti-Thaksin folks turned against PAD (torching Bangkok cost the reds much support as well). Then when the PAD-NPP came out with its corporatist (proto-fascist in the technical sense) platform they lost all credibility and popular support. Even the madman Suthep isn't PAD.

--S

Kindly indulge me a moment if you would, sae57 as I look around for the long time TVF poster Uncle rubl who doesn't like my political language. Uncle rubl, I want you to check out this recent guy here, sae57, cause if you don't like my political terminology (ammart, fascist, feudal, reactionary et al ), you're gonna have a lot to chew on with this:

proto-fascist

corporatist proto-fascist

corporatist proto-fascist in the technical sense platform

PAD-DEM

PAD-NPP

Thx sae57 for your patience and for your kind indulgence as I try to point out to the long time TVF poster Uncle rubl that my polly sci grad political language s/he complains about might be rather basic and stock stuff contrasted to that of some others. Again, this is a purely academic exercise which isn't intended to be taken in any other way.

A request for information: can anyone cite the constitutional article that states how the transfer of an official may be deemed both improper and an impeachable defense? I have an authorized and accredited English translation of the current constitution and I cannot find such a citing.

Article 266(2),(3) the issue being "For his or her personal benefits [sic] or those of others or a political party."

Article 268 is also mentioned, but it doesn't quite make sense. I suspect a poor translation but I'm too lazy to look up the Thai.

That she would be removed from office if convicted is covered in Article 182(7) & 268.

The issue, as I understand it, is that replacing an official who has been appointed to a permanent, non-political position with a croney weakens the system of checks and balances. This is an important issue in parliamentary systems where there is no separation between the legislative and executive branches (as in the US).

--S

I do raise the matter however that if everything illegal is also unconstitutional, then there's going to be a lot of chaos in the country. Even if half of what is illegal is also and necessarily unconstitutional, the country is on the road to oblivion. Or even 10%. That's what we have in this transfer case - it is illegal and unconstitutional to transfer one single government employee.

So because there are Thai Logic & Ethics 1001 that state two wrongs make a right, and that five more wrongs make it even more right, Thais will sooner or later reap the whirlwind, as is occurring currently, inevitably.

[marcusd]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

TOTALLY WRONG. This has happened in many countries in the west. Go back to,your books and discover

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[marcusd]

Let's keep things in perspective, and not let PAD-Dem characterizations appear to be Democratically legitimate.

>>>>"Chaikasem, a former attorney-general, had told the media that if the Constitutional Court rules to disqualify Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for allegedly illegally transferring National Security Council secretary-general Thawil Pliensri,...."

For allegedly what?.......Same old, same old....Trying to obscure anti-democratic coup-activism by burying the motives under this issue or that.

This has nothing to do with transferring somebody, and everything to do with advancing the objectives of those agitating for a coup.

Using phoney issue and legality nonsense as cover doesn't fool anyone, unless it is in their interest to appear fooled....Their demonization mantra of categorizing all those who object to this folderol as being unlawful anarchists, can usually be traced back to its' source of unelectables.

"However, it would be problematic if Yingluck were to be disqualified and forced out of the caretaker's post"

Yeah, DUH!

The reaction of the electoral majority worries them....They are running in place, trying to muster enough courage to pull their 'coup-trigger".....Delaying elections, scheduling these coup advocacy actions via their user friendly judiciary later and later, etc. etc.

I am sure they are pining away for the good old days, like in 2006...When they didn't need to worry so....The unintended consequence of these dastardly UDD/Red Shirts who formed after that 2006 coup-caper, sure muddies the water this time.

oh gawd. You never learn do you????

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Publicus]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

TOTALLY WRONG. This has happened in many countries in the west. Go back to,your books and discover

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Lashing out are we now.

[dutchisaan]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

...and what exactly do you believe that the world's reaction to the current situation is?

There is no point in you trying to infer that this is all because of the "transfer of one single government employee", because that would clearly represent the most extreme spin we have seen from any of you Red apologists in weeks...!! Attempting to undermine constitutional principles by removing someone from office for nepotistic reasons is just the tip of the iceberg, so please refrain from trying to make that the main issue.

You attempt to whitewash over the antics of the PTP and their terrorist supporters by referring to the occupation of the airport, a coup, and the current uprising by the people (not Suthep, as people of your ilk keep harping on). The one thing that all of these protests have in common is that they were aimed at getting Thaksin out of office for the damage that he was causing to the country.

You prefer not to make any mention of several noteworthy incidents, such as taking a vote at 4:00 am to dismantle part of the constitutional system, the attempts to give amnesty to everything relating to the 2010 turmoil and beyond (including of course, your precious leader, Thaksin), refusal to allow opposition parties to have their say in political debate, allowing (possibly even encouraging) party members to cast votes (multiple votes) on behalf of other members, coercion of anyone opposing the PTP stance (particularly in Red Villages), threats to the families and property of farmers who intended to go to Bangkok to protest against what they now see as a corrupt government, and last but not least, the numerous peaceful demonstrators who have been shot and killed, including children.

All of this is ignored essentially because it doesn't suit your agenda, does it?! You also continuously use the term 'ammart', when in fact, none of those who were responsible for creating the current movement to oust this corrupt government has any position in the bureaucratic polity or the Royal household. Do you actually understand who the ammart are? They are certainly not the people on the streets, or their leaders...!

To many people it is clear that in most Western nations, this PM and her Cabinet would have been suspended, impeached, indicted, tried, found guilty, and be serving time for what they have done to this country, and all of that would have happened quite some time ago. I suspect that, contrary to your supposition, the rest of the world may be wondering how on earth it’s taken so long for the judicial system to come into play to oust these villains…!

Good post

Let me clarify some of this typical PAD-Dem mantra's and spinning

>>>>>You attempt to whitewash over the antics of the PTP and their terrorist supporters

Everything ever undertaken by the PTP and UDD/red Shirts was in 'reaction"...reacting to the theft of their votes by those who cannot garner enough on their own to gain political power...This inability to acquire votes has reasons...Then to ignore that fact, and focus on the resistance to that theft, as if it was in a vacuum, speaks for itself.....

Calling a large segment of the electorate whose votes they will need to ever have any chance of electoral success - terrorists - is really, really smart.

>>>>>Attempting to undermine constitutional principles by removing someone from office for nepotistic reasons is just the tip of the iceberg, so please refrain from trying to make that the main issue.

You are correct...that is not the main issue at all.....It is merely cover for coupist intentions....and is completely made up anyway. Opposition trying to manufacture something irrelevant, all in the service of coup advocacy.

That entire paragraph dealing with opposition noise, accusing of 4:00AM stuff, anti-constitutional allegations, amnesty, curtailing opposition debate, multiple voting, alleged coercive stuff, etc., etc...is all just opposition folderol which they are afraid to debate in a televised Parliament or present to the electorate.....Consider its'source and their lack of confidence in presenting it to voters...That lack of confidence has reasons..But amazing, how many Farangs will take that Opposition stuff as gospel.

All of this is ignored essentially because it doesn't suit your agenda

I'm not ignoring it....any attention and knowledge at all, blows it out-of-the-water....Come on you brave opinionated PAD-Dem's...Take it to the electorate, take it to Parliament....No you say, with fearful trembling ?...need I say more.

>>>>"...none of those who were responsible for creating the current movement to oust this corrupt government has any position..."

No-one is involved in a movement to oust a Govt......They are involved in coup-activism....It is all about power, and they cannot acqwuire it electorally...so they go the coup route...Don't give me this holier-than-thou nonsense about being anti-Govt or being protesters...they are neither of those.

>>>>To many people it is clear that in most Western nations, this PM and her Cabinet would have been suspended, impeached, indicted, tried, found guilty, and be serving time for what they have done to this country,

It is not clear at all, because it is the "big lie"...In western nations this Opposition noise would have been taken to the electorate, for their judgment...The fact they refuse to do it here, speaks for itself...The term "Cowardly" comes to mind.

>>>>>"...how on earth it’s taken so long for the judicial system to come into play to oust these villains…!"

Trying to normalize the abnormal judiciary are we?...That smoke may play with an international audience, but don't assault our intelligence with it.

FB, you have to start writing fiction because you are realy good at that.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 13, 2014 by dutchisaan

[Publicus]

One has to start to recognize and understand the difference before one can know which is which. You might want to get on that right away, before the thread disappears.

[tingtongteesood]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

[Publicus]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

[dcutman]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

One would think your opinion is correct, right up to the point that Yingluck ignored warnings of the constitutionality of this transfer, and appealed the first verdict, that she could not transfer him. Do you recall that Pubicus?

[Publicus]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

One would think your opinion is correct, right up to the point that Yingluck ignored warnings of the constitutionality of this transfer, and appealed the first verdict, that she could not transfer him. Do you recall that Pubicus?

One recalls a great deal in the perpetual efforts of the ammart to transmogrify the abnormal into the normal.

That one single personnel action by a prime minister in a parliamentary system can result in a court dismissing the entire government is preposterous. It is a permutation of the rule of law. It trivializes the law itself, which means all laws. And order.

You are trying to say to me that, if you warn me you are going to clobber me over the head, and I still walk out to my car, then it's my fault I got clobbered by you. If you don't know you transmute logic and reasoning in pursuing such wrongheadedness, then I can see why you are on the side of feudal society. Feudal society is arbitrary, whimsical, capricious - it is of the elites, for the elites, by the elites. Anything goes as long as the elites do it..

Wrong again.

[marcusd]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

TOTALLY WRONG. This has happened in many countries in the west. Go back to,your books and discover

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Lashing out are we now.

no. Not at all. I cannot believe you surround yourself with books in your bookshop and you still cannot fathom what you read and perpetuate ignorance

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[marcusd]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

what job did you previoulsy do? Certainly not one where major decisions are required. Your arguments are definitely beer gall standard

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Publicus]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

TOTALLY WRONG. This has happened in many countries in the west. Go back to,your books and discover

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

Lashing out are we now.

no. Not at all. I cannot believe you surround yourself with books in your bookshop and you still cannot fathom what you read and perpetuate ignorance

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Publicus]

Why is it "illegal" for the democratically elected PM to transfer one of her civil servants? Why is this a matter for the Constitutional Court? Why is this matter so serious that it would justify the removal of a democratically elected Government? Can civil servants not be transferred or dismissed at all?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

what job did you previoulsy do? Certainly not one where major decisions are required. Your arguments are definitely beer gall standard

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[djjamie]

Once again we are treated to all sorts of tangents, none of which relate to the actual suggestion by Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri, a former attorney general, and someone qualified to offer a comment on Thailand's constitutional law(s). What part of the legal comment do those of you offering negative comments disagree with? How was the reasoning, the legal argument flawed?

Instead of a coherent rational rebuttal, the thread is filled with the grunts and belches of people who haven't considered the actual legal issue(s) involved. The constitution sets out the procedures to be followed, and the justice minister has offered his opinion. It doesn't mean he is right, but the argument he has raised has yet to be countered. not one comment in this thread that provides an alternative argument based upon the constitutional law. Judging from the comments made, it seems that the subject matter is too difficult for some people to comprehend.

And your, independent, legal point is?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I an not qualified to argue Thai constitutional law,

Niether is yingluck…Well said.

So like her, you are offering an opinion.

[djjamie]

Not when they are removed purely for you to appoint your relatives to positions of power so you can have a stranglehold over all branches of government....

Making the transfer of one single government official of any rank or tenure both illegal and unconstitutional sends the country head first sliding rapidly down that slippery slope the lawyers consistently talk about.

An administrative level court found that Yingluck acted in violation of the law. Sh*t happens.

However, that transferring one single government employee should also be unconstitutional, the basis for the CC to dismiss the PM and the entire government, is preposterous.

The same CC already had dismissed a PM for being on a cooking show, and I remember the expressions on the faces of the presenters on BBC & CNN and the rest of 'em as they reported the bizarre development in Thailand. Yes, Samak fibbed about getting pocket change for being visiting cook, but everyone in the world knew it was a political mugging, a perversion of the law in the name of the law.

Another instance of Thai Logic & Ethics 1001, that two wrongs make a right and that five more wrongs make it even more right. It's also called breeding contempt of existing law and order as they are, and as they are being used/abused - by none other than the ammart..

what job did you previoulsy do? Certainly not one where major decisions are required. Your arguments are definitely beer gall standard

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

I will have to remember this "laughing" reply when I am also unable to rebut an argument or am presented with undeniable facts.

Usually the PM just hides and refuses to answer questions. Laughing must be the new PTP way of saying "I will not answer that question"

Example - Is there corruption in the rice scheme?

Yes yingluck…..We understand.

Edited April 13, 2014 by djjamie

[Baerboxer]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

----------------------

There is no legitimate elected government at this time in Thailand.

It was an election in which most of the opposition candidates did not participate and which was shown to be rife with corruption anyhow.

Would you say that an election in the U.K. was "fair and democratic" if all the Tory party did not or was not allowed to participate.

The problem with you "Red Shirt sympathizers" is that you have you head so far up the red shirts backside all you can see is the view from their a--hole.

The one authority that COULD end this political deadlock is the royal family.

It's the one thing all Thai politicians claim allegiance to .... even if many of them don't really mean that .... and it's the one ultimate authority most Thai voters and citizens trust.

And that authority is the best answer to the corrupt self-serving Thai politicians of ALL Thai political parties in this time of political turmoil.

That's why it is needed.

The election has been annulled. The caretaker government are still the same government who at the last un-annulled election won 265 seats as opposed to the democrat party that won only 159 seats. They were legitimately elected to form a government. Nothing has changed since - the dissolution of parliament does not make them an non legitimate government, it makes them a caretaker government trying to run a country and call a new election.

If the democrat party do not wish to contest that election that is their problem - it doesn't make the election not "fair or democratic". You may notice abhisit and his "democrat" partners are prevaricating about contesting a new election whilst the EC are doing their best to delay that election until the conditions are right for the dems to suddenly declare that the election is free and fair and that they will contest it. Nothing to do with the fact that the judicial coup will hopefully (for them) have succeeded by then and they won't actually have to win seats or anything to form a government.

Legitimately elected and asked to form a government as the largest minority party.

Their repeated behavior since taking office - lies, cheating, illegal acts, refusal to respect the courts, the law and parliamentary procedures has negated any legitimacy they had. Now they cling on to power, thrashing around like a beached fish.

They dissolved parliament hoping to scrape enough votes and offer enough places at the trough to continue. Luckily the blatant attempt at a whitewash was the final straw and provoked large masses of Thais to protest. Allowing a criminal fugitive fraudster to run the government, dictate policy and handpick the cabinet - you think that's democracy?

[Publicus]

The ammart are so wrapped up in the petty absurdities of their own private fiefdom here they haven't any clue of the world's reaction to a court removing a prime minister and the entire legitimate democratic government because the PM transferred one single government employee.

Thailand has negatively been in the global news for years and years on end, starting with the PAD occupying Swampy, to include a coup, and now to Suthep the seizure mad self-appointed sovereign and the PDRC. The ammart's next moves will amount to a damning self-expose'.

Unmistakably and deservedly so.

----------------------

There is no legitimate elected government at this time in Thailand.

It was an election in which most of the opposition candidates did not participate and which was shown to be rife with corruption anyhow.

Would you say that an election in the U.K. was "fair and democratic" if all the Tory party did not or was not allowed to participate.

The problem with you "Red Shirt sympathizers" is that you have you head so far up the red shirts backside all you can see is the view from their a--hole.

The one authority that COULD end this political deadlock is the royal family.

It's the one thing all Thai politicians claim allegiance to .... even if many of them don't really mean that .... and it's the one ultimate authority most Thai voters and citizens trust.

And that authority is the best answer to the corrupt self-serving Thai politicians of ALL Thai political parties in this time of political turmoil.

That's why it is needed.

The election has been annulled. The caretaker government are still the same government who at the last un-annulled election won 265 seats as opposed to the democrat party that won only 159 seats. They were legitimately elected to form a government. Nothing has changed since - the dissolution of parliament does not make them an non legitimate government, it makes them a caretaker government trying to run a country and call a new election.

If the democrat party do not wish to contest that election that is their problem - it doesn't make the election not "fair or democratic". You may notice abhisit and his "democrat" partners are prevaricating about contesting a new election whilst the EC are doing their best to delay that election until the conditions are right for the dems to suddenly declare that the election is free and fair and that they will contest it. Nothing to do with the fact that the judicial coup will hopefully (for them) have succeeded by then and they won't actually have to win seats or anything to form a government.

Legitimately elected and asked to form a government as the largest minority party.

Their repeated behavior since taking office - lies, cheating, illegal acts, refusal to respect the courts, the law and parliamentary procedures has negated any legitimacy they had. Now they cling on to power, thrashing around like a beached fish.

They dissolved parliament hoping to scrape enough votes and offer enough places at the trough to continue. Luckily the blatant attempt at a whitewash was the final straw and provoked large masses of Thais to protest. Allowing a criminal fugitive fraudster to run the government, dictate policy and handpick the cabinet - you think that's democracy?

Pluueese get some new pretexts arguments to try to justify your smashing democracy in favor of an anonymous appointed Feudal Council cabinet and a still anonymous appointed feudal assembly to make the fascist "reforms" you far out right wingnuts are drooling over and to make, all at the hand of your seizure mad self-appointed sovereign power and Ultraman Suthep.

Tell Suthep to take his purposes and designs to the voters, directly. Ooops, wait a minute, I'm talking to you about this, a far right wingnut. What wuz I thinking.

[WoopyDoo]

@ Publicus.

I have read through this thread from start to finish, and I have to say that never in all my time on internet forums have I come across a member that has been so badly beaten on every front in a debate as you have been.

I have also never come across someone so stubborn as to cling to every last possibility of trying to justify a case that is quite simply unjustifiable.

You are completely vanquished in this augment. Just by the fact you base your argument on a system of completely ignoring and discounting FACTS and focusing on small and mostly irrelevant details

Even Thaksin would have given up the argument as having been clearly defeated around 20 posts back.

I bet your reply to this will be denial, which is the core of your problems, because you clearly live there.