Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[samran]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

If Bob the binman marries Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar, supports her as a husband does, want to settle down to have a child...

then yes, why not get that right?!

There should be a middle ground, screening out the abusers of the system at least some extent....

Say 5 yrs marriage?

2 yrs marriage with a child?

Age under 50?

You name it.

It is also not normal that being married to a Thai, and the same time due job market restrictions for foreigners locked out from legal employment option if you happen to work in almost any field, not able to own even half your house what was bought with 100% of your money, and be unsure when a visa or extension or whatever will be granted or refused.

As for paying tax or not, exactly how many Thai (%age will do) you think is paying any tax here? Again, not many legal jobs around apart from limited few fields, and even volunteering is restricted by work permits.

And as a final thoughts, while many country offers social benefits, a foreigner surely wont want to be moving here for that, or seeking citizenship for the 500thb per month old age pension, the uneployment benefits, or the great free healthcare.

I think the moaning about not being able to work is a red herring.

I'd give automatic work rights in all professions and it still wouldn't make the slightest difference. Wages are too low for you and for the most past who is going to hire someone who doesn't speak the language? Why would people pay more for that when they can get someone for 180 baht per day?

You may like to think you are gods gift to the Thai workforce, but no offence, I don't think most are.

[laislica]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Spain does not have a language test when applying for the Foreigners Residence ID.

I agree, if you want to change your nationality then you must be fluent in the local language but surely it should not be necessary to change nationality to avoid the paperwork.

What we need is a system (hoops and all) that provides the benefits being discussed.

A Foreigners Residence ID would seem to be an ideal solution.

(The Spanish one has a fingerprint on the back and includes the husbands ID and name as well)

Unlike passport numbers, the ID never changes, just like the Thai one. Change name on marriage, ID remains the same, only the name changes.

[PJcm]

If they made it easier but stipulated you had to give up your home countries nanionality would you do it?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They can't make you give up your citizenship, even if you go to your embassy and tell them you are forced to give up your citizenship in order to become a Thai citizen they will give you a piece of paper saying you have relinquished your citizenship, After you receive your Thai citizenship go back to the embassy and ask for your birth right back .

[davidmann]

Perhaps a national attitude towards "aliens", we are tolerated, thats it......

in the past not even that talking 1970

[davidmann]

To be fair, the USA does not even lets Thais visit the country without jumping through all kinds of hoops including medical tests and waiting online and being interviewed at 6:00 am...

My English daughter married a man from the USA ,she has degree ,took one year to get visa and had medical including AIDS test ,same for thais ,TB test for the UK ,recon best for people to stay where they come from ,told To F of when i went to different part UK in the 1960

[sirineou]

resonable

To be fair, the USA does not even lets Thais visit the country without jumping through all kinds of hoops including medical tests and waiting online and being interviewed at 6:00 am...

Not true,

everything the the US does in terms of it's visa requirements is , reasonable.

Some times these reasonable visa requirements are misapplied by overzealous officials

but for the most part they are all reasonable and after thinking about them , and having gone through most of the process my self with my wife and other family members, I don't see how it could be done deferentially.

Firstly it is not the US's fault that so many people want to come here , that they have to line up 6: 00 am .

Medical checks are necessary to screen those who would come to the US and overload the medical care system.

Visa tourist checks are necessary to make sure people were not using the tourist visa route to circumvent normal immigration procedures.

It is not the US's fault that these stringent tourist visa rules are in place, it is the fault of the illegal aliens who are for ever trying to game the system.

If people were not screened as much as they are, every pregnant woman would be able to go to the US and have her baby there, thus the baby becoming automatically a US citizen and by extension it's parents.

My the fiance applied and followed the normal process to come to the US and marry me,

we filed the proper forms and fees, provided the required documentation.

aside from an insufficient documentation hick-up which we resolved in a couple of months, everything went smoothly. With in 1 year she was in the Us and we were married, In a couple of years she had her permanent Green card, in 3 years she was a US citizen and now has a US passport and could even run for Congress if she so wished.

I would be more than willing to jump through the same hoops for equal Thai consideration.

[ggt]

You answered your own question...you are an alien...can never be accepted as a Thai...if you stay here long enough...you will not want to be naturalized...

[benalibina]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

IMO integration into any society is way overrated. Complying by the rules of law is only what matters.

What does, according to you, integration into thai society mean ?

[transam]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Total <deleted>, you do not know me and any short failings l have. You are a member of the hang 'em high brigade cos folk cannot do what you can do. Folk like yourself are very sad people, blinkered in your own wee "i am perfect" world............How sad.........

[NewlyMintedThai]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Equalizer]

I am married here, i have children here, i have lived here for 10 years and i have never worked here. Thailand and all its policies are fixed to allow an adequate piece of the worlds financial pie in to satisfy a small percentage of the population. This is the power population who have nationalistic, racist breeding. Mixed marriages are primarily from the poorish native population of this country who see things differently. Mainly because a lot of them where not even financed for brainwashing because they are from the rural areas. The question you have to ask yourself is the scenario if we could become citizens. Now we are treated like second class citizens. What would persuade you to actually become one?

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Total <deleted>, you do not know me and any short failings l have. You are a member of the hang 'em high brigade cos folk cannot do what you can do. Folk like yourself are very sad people, blinkered in your own wee "i am perfect" world............How sad.........

To be honest, I never thought you had any 'short failings' as you call them. You come across as a fairly forthright person. I don't agree with many things you say, but that is fine. I'm sure the feeling is mutal. I'm a big boy and so are you. Beyond that, I don't have any issues and have never thought anyone is perfect. Frankly, I think you are talking yourself down on that front. I think/know you've got it in you to learn a bit. Not much, but some is all I'm taking about.

As said, if I ruled the world. You could stay here no problems and worked if you wanted to. That is a fundamental human right to be with your family members.

But the OP bought up the concept of how 'civilised' nations do it. My point was - if you want it to work one way (and I know you favour stronger immigration rules back home) why shouldn't it work the other way.....?

Edited April 20, 2014 by samran

[ben2203]

I heard people who apply for naturalization have to change their names to a thai name so if you possess a thai and us passport and want to use the us passport it gets complicated with having two names, one in their US passport and another in their Thai passport. Not sure if it's true or not though

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

IMO integration into any society is way overrated. Complying by the rules of law is only what matters.

What does, according to you, integration into thai society mean ?

I'm not talking giving up who you are and where you come from. I'm a big believer in multicuturalism, both ways, as a child of two cultures myself - Thailand and Australia. You want to move to Thailand and live in you English pub. Fine. No one should be forcing you to go out to eat somtum and listen to luk thung music.

But, there has to be some sort of ability to communicate with those around you, to function, and ideally, to be able to read what is going on around you. If you are wanting PR and Citizenship, you have to show some sort of commitiment to becoming a part of a community you are asking for residency in. It doesn't have to be much, but it has to be enough so that you can work and function in a society.

And from my expererience, having language ability is certainy part of that. Just read 95% of the threads on Thai Visa. Stupid issues that come up all, in my opinion, from a lack of ability to communicate. Doesn't have to be great, but its got to be something.

[Rimbuman]

I am married here, i have children here, i have lived here for 10 years and i have never worked here. Thailand and all its policies are fixed to allow an adequate piece of the worlds financial pie in to satisfy a small percentage of the population. This is the power population who have nationalistic, racist breeding. Mixed marriages are primarily from the poorish native population of this country who see things differently. Mainly because a lot of them where not even financed for brainwashing because they are from the rural areas. The question you have to ask yourself is the scenario if we could become citizens. Now we are treated like second class citizens. What would persuade you to actually become one?

Post # 36

[samran]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

...and that is the issue isn't it? It really isn't THAT hard...

[Rimbuman]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

...and that is the issue isn't it? It really isn't THAT hard...

He stated Thai Nationality, not Thai Citizenship.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Nope. But I think some of the guys here expect a tuxedoed motorcycle messenger to drive up with a Thai passport on a silver platter the second they say "I do" to Pussycat Noi.

They have an amazing sense of self-entitlement.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[NewlyMintedThai]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

...and that is the issue isn't it? It really isn't THAT hard...

He stated Thai Nationality, not Thai Citizenship.

And the difference would be...?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[HardenedSoul]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Spot on.

These people are all for imposing language tests for those wanting to integrate into their homelands - so am I for that matter - but turn the situation around and they genuinely believe that having money and coming from a so-called advanced nation should entitle one to a shortcut; a way to circumvent the criteria and buy one's way in.

Well I for one, am delighted the Thai authorities make it tough. I'm delighted they prevent foreigners owning land in the kingdom and pricing out the locals. Imagine a legion of greedy farang landowners killing the country dead

Many of us come from some of the greediest nations on the planet. My own country built its wealth on the appropriation - by force - of natural resources belonging to a whole host of nations.

The Thais have every right to protect themselves.

[ben2203]

Why are people arguing with samran? His points make perfect sense??

Anyway guy who got naturalized, did you have to change your name to a thai name?

[ben2203]

Nope. But I think some of the guys here expect a tuxedoed motorcycle messenger to drive up with a Thai passport on a silver platter the second they say "I do" to Pussycat Noi.

They have an amazing sense of self-entitlement.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Ha ha

[NewlyMintedThai]

Why are people arguing with samran? His points make perfect sense??

Anyway guy who got naturalized, did you have to change your name to a thai name?

No.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Rimbuman]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

...and that is the issue isn't it? It really isn't THAT hard...

He stated Thai Nationality, not Thai Citizenship.

And the difference would be...?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

For example in the USA you'd obtain a green card, that would make you a us citizen but you don't hold an American passport and you don't have the same rights (for example right to vote) as Americans.

Naturalization would make you an American complete with passport and the same rights as any other American.

[NewlyMintedThai]

While the rest of you are having a good gripe on your barstools, I actually went out and got Thai nationality. I didn't even have to marry a Noi to do it. And I had a much easier time of it than my non-Anerican brother-in-law did acquiring Anerican citizenship after marrying my sister.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

...and that is the issue isn't it? It really isn't THAT hard...

He stated Thai Nationality, not Thai Citizenship.

And the difference would be...?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

For example in the USA you'd obtain a green card, that would make you a us citizen but you don't hold an American passport and you don't have the same rights (for example right to vote) as Americans.

Naturalization would make you an American complete with passport and the same rights as any other American.

There is no difference between nationality and citizenship. A US green card does NOT make you either a US national or a US citizen.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[kennypowers]

Looking at the overall quality of foreigners who come here, if you were in charge, would you be willing to make naturalisation an easy pathway? Moreover, speaking from my own POV as a Brit, Thailand, and many other countries for that matter, are all too aware of the white man's greedy, self-serving colonial ways. All one has to do is pick up a history book or watch the news to understand why we aren't exactly welcomed with open ares wherever we go.

[Loles]

Aliens?

Who idiot wants to marry with E.T. or Miss Ripley's enemies ???

[NewlyMintedThai]

Stop thinking about the almighty farang for a second and think of the billion Chinese and hundreds of millions of Burmese, Cambodians, Laos, Indians, Iranians, Nigerians, and everyone else who would completely decimate this country if the government gave a passport no questions asked and with no hurdles if they simply found a Noi to sign a marriage paper.

It is NOT ALL ABOUT FARANGS, people. Use your heads for once.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[ben2203]

That's permanent residence where you hold your originally citizenship but are pretty much a citizen, not citizenship or nationality, a thai national is a thai citizen, or a thai citizen is a thai national

[ravip]

Its the old saga. They don'want western foreigners, they want our money only.

So, rent and not buy.

We can never know what will be next in this country.

Honestly, if ALL farang money is taken out of Thailand (or ANY other undeveloped country), would it be bankrupt?

Will the natives starve and die... and be extinct?

Edit

they want our money only.

From where did the "our money" originate from?

History, History, History, History.

Some one should be really be ashamed of oneself!!!

Edited April 20, 2014 by ravip