Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[Neeranam]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

There are many Thai wives that don't even want their husbands to learn to speak Thai!

The day that Thais will fight for increasing foreigners' rights will be the day that Thais stop calling us by the pronoun 'Mun', which means 'it', and yes, I've heard wives even call their husbands this when they never knew I understood.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Neeranam

[pigeonjake]

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I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Spot on.

These people are all for imposing language tests for those wanting to integrate into their homelands - so am I for that matter - but turn the situation around and they genuinely believe that having money and coming from a so-called advanced nation should entitle one to a shortcut; a way to circumvent the criteria and buy one's way in.

Well I for one, am delighted the Thai authorities make it tough. I'm delighted they prevent foreigners owning land in the kingdom and pricing out the locals. Imagine a legion of greedy farang landowners killing the country dead

Many of us come from some of the greediest nations on the planet. My own country built its wealth on the appropriation - by force - of natural resources belonging to a whole host of nations.

The Thais have every right to protect themselves.

well put mate,

some cant see further then there own nose,,,me me me ,,lol

its not just the brits that would come to rape the country,,

im more then happy the way it is, might be harder when im old and cant get around to well having to go to imigration,,,

jake

[Neeranam]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

We are very lucky in that respect. Most countries have a requirement for foreigners working to pass an exam but here there is no such test.

[Rimbuman]

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I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Genuinely deaf and dumb, then you'd make allowances.

We aren't talking about that with you are we? There is no such thing as 'language deaf'. What we are really taking about is laziness to apply yourself and pass a few primary school tests the equivalent if which every Thai migrant to the uk must pass to get ILR.

So are you somehow better than them? What is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

So to answer your question.

Yep. It shows an inability to integrate.

Id happily give you an automatic work permi and the ability to stay so long as you were married to a Thai national. But PR, no, and def not citizenship unless you show a bit of ability to at least try.

Spot on.

These people are all for imposing language tests for those wanting to integrate into their homelands - so am I for that matter - but turn the situation around and they genuinely believe that having money and coming from a so-called advanced nation should entitle one to a shortcut; a way to circumvent the criteria and buy one's way in.

Well I for one, am delighted the Thai authorities make it tough. I'm delighted they prevent foreigners owning land in the kingdom and pricing out the locals. Imagine a legion of greedy farang landowners killing the country dead

Many of us come from some of the greediest nations on the planet. My own country built its wealth on the appropriation - by force - of natural resources belonging to a whole host of nations.

The Thais have every right to protect themselves.

Again, makes sense but times like this are over, colonialism is the past and limited ownership of land for personal use should not be a problem. Actually I see a lot of potential land waisted for no reason.

Sure no problem with restrictions about owning land, but the rules as they are now are xenofobic at least.

The OP was about equal treatment for Farang married with Thai and yes you can buy a passport for around 3 million baht I've heard.

All of this has nothing to do with why started this thread, It just would be nice to be treated fair and have a clear path to citizenship like state by samran in post #3 and I would ad naturalization (optional)

Do you like to be treated and handled like a low life because you aren't Thai?

[Neeranam]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many if you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

I wouldn't for sure, why, cos I am language deaf. Is that a problem in your eyes ?

If I were deaf and dumb would that be a problem in your eyes ?

YES or No..........?

Language deaf

I've heard it all now.

Imagine a Thai going to the UK and applying to stay and saying he was language deaf and couldn't learn English.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Neeranam

[pigeonjake]

i can see how it would sit bad in somes mouth, that an british lady married to a thai man can get a thai passport,

but a british man who is married to a thai lady cant,,

in england that wouldnt happen,

sex disgrimination

jake

[Rimbuman]

Stop thinking about the almighty farang for a second and think of the billion Chinese and hundreds of millions of Burmese, Cambodians, Laos, Indians, Iranians, Nigerians, and everyone else who would completely decimate this country if the government gave a passport no questions asked and with no hurdles if they simply found a Noi to sign a marriage paper.

It is NOT ALL ABOUT FARANGS, people. Use your heads for once.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Mmmm, don't you think the Thai tackled this already?

[Maggusoil]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

That's very interesting. Do you know if it would apply to being the legal father of the child in a de facto relationship, house built as well and providing income for 7 years. I am not imagining that the income is a category but just as support material.

[samran]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

That's very interesting. Do you know if it would apply to being the legal father of the child in a de facto relationship, house built as well and providing income for 7 years. I am not imagining that the income is a category but just as support material.

got to me married as far as I know.

Are you working in Thailand? It is a must - 3 years of WP and unbroken stay before applying.

[Maggusoil]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

That's very interesting. Do you know if it would apply to being the legal father of the child in a de facto relationship, house built as well and providing income for 7 years. I am not imagining that the income is a category but just as support material.

got to me married as far as I know.

Are you working in Thailand? It is a must - 3 years of WP and unbroken stay before applying.

No, not working at the moment . . and not staying that long anywhere. 3 years without leaving the country at all? That's strict.

Thanks anyway. Will do the right thing and go to Immigration. It is interesting though, I thought it was more out of reach than that.

[Thai at Heart]

You have to look at this question from the point of view of the government of Thailand, not from your own, self-centered point of view. So, what does Thailand have to gain by offering citizenship to those foreigners whose demonstrable contribution to the society is, so far, marrying a Thai woman? Not much would be my guess. In some other countries, like Mexico and Japan, marrying a local does not get you any nearer citizenship at all. It does in the US, but the US has a history of being an immigrant country and the culture still reflects that to some degree, even though the reality has changed.

It isn't about contribution and worth. it's about the basic human right for a family to be allowed to live together in peace.

This human right is agreed by every civilized country on the planet.

(I don't have a dog in this race as I'm Thai by birth)

@JoePai

This isn't a discussion about immigrant families, this is a discussion about a foreigner marrying a citizen.

Well having been through the rigmarole that is the British immigration system for residency recently I can humbly disagree.

The rules that have been put in place in the UK are manifestly unfair, particularly when put in contrast to the freedoms afforded all EU citizens to freely enter the UK

It is frankly a mess.

[evadgib]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

Edited April 20, 2014 by evadgib

[samran]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

That's very interesting. Do you know if it would apply to being the legal father of the child in a de facto relationship, house built as well and providing income for 7 years. I am not imagining that the income is a category but just as support material.

got to me married as far as I know.

Are you working in Thailand? It is a must - 3 years of WP and unbroken stay before applying.

No, not working at the moment . . and not staying that long anywhere. 3 years without leaving the country at all? That's strict.

Thanks anyway. Will do the right thing and go to Immigration. It is interesting though, I thought it was more out of reach than that.

Sorry, should have been clearer. 3 years of non-immigrant extensions of stay, WP and thai taxes paid on an income more than 40K. Obviously you can leave the country, so long as you hav a re-entry permit not to break the 3 year rule.

But yes, it isn't as out of reach as most people think. Main issue is waiting for minsterial sign off. Process wise, for most, it is 3 year process from go to woe. Blown out a bit now perhaps with all the protests....

Edited April 20, 2014 by samran

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

has she had her final interview yet?

I blame Suthep.

My wife had her final interview with the citizenship committee last November. It had been a three year process - mainly wait (as expected) - to that point. From what I can gather, a 6 month-ish wait for ministerial and then HM sign off following that.

Suthep has thrown a major spanner in the works though - so none of that is happening. Would be interesting to see how far she has gotten but the queue has ground to a halt for everyone.

[Thai at Heart]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

has she had her final interview yet?

I blame Suthep.

My wife had her final interview with the citizenship committee last November. It had been a three year process - mainly wait (as expected) - to that point. From what I can gather, a 6 month-ish wait for ministerial and then HM sign off following that.

Suthep has thrown a major spanner in the works though - so none of that is happening. Would be interesting to see how far she has gotten but the queue has ground to a halt for everyone.

With the coups and merry go round of ministers, there has been a permenenant delay for the last decade.

[Alwyn]

A couple of points; First off not all that many "civilized countries" offer a spouse citizenship to the partners country. Second you can achieve Thai citizenship as long as meet the set out criteria (ask any one of a 100 Indians you meet in the street). Thirdly, why on Earth would anyone want Thai citizenship? (unless maybe you come from Uganda for example)?

[Rimbuman]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

has she had her final interview yet?

I blame Suthep.

My wife had her final interview with the citizenship committee last November. It had been a three year process - mainly wait (as expected) - to that point. From what I can gather, a 6 month-ish wait for ministerial and then HM sign off following that.

Suthep has thrown a major spanner in the works though - so none of that is happening. Would be interesting to see how far she has gotten but the queue has ground to a halt for everyone.

Rubbish and off topic, lets leave reds and yellows out of this topic please.

Edited,

Ok, not off topic but please no reds, yellows, pinks and blues please.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rimbuman

[thequietman]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

i agree with some of this,

im not botherd about owning property,,, i trust my wife,,

the 5 year visa would be good, not having to report ect,,,but i still think you should have to show money in the bank,,

i dont think you should get free health care,, you havnt paid into the country,,,and i mean that for the uk too,,lol,

i also dont think you should be able to work in a job that a thai cant do as now,,, apart from, if you and your wife had a farm,,, now your going to say im selfish, because we have a farm,,

what i mean is if you own the bussines then yes you can work it,, but not to just go and get a job to top up your pention,,

again, my views arnt going to please everyone,

but there is no need to be rude to one another just because we have different views on this,,

it would be a sad world if we all thought the same,,

jake

Hiya Jake,

You don't seem to be able to see beyond your own nose.

I have lived here for 11 years, married for 5. Built a house, got a new truck, Motorbikes for wife and I. Built a shop and restaurant in the village and it goes along nicely. Not big money but enough. My wife pays taxes for that.

I have been paying taxes for 5 years and also social security payments. I am contributing to the government coffers and also to the national health system. I know I won't be able to be an ESL teacher forever but getting naturalization would allow me, my wife and son to be together forever.

As it is, I have to show 400,000 baht annually or get the hell out. My wife and I have our shop but its her income and can't be counted as mine. So even though I have invested heavily in this country, pay my taxes, and pay my social payments, if our shop could support me and my wife in our older years, I still have to have 400,000 baht every year of my life until I die. Fair? Not one bit.

Not all of us have pensions sorted. Not all of us chose to stay in the rat race until we were 65 and then retire. I 'retired' when I was 32 and I still don't regret it. Not until I moved here anyway. I will of course find a way as I always do but it would be nice to have some reciprocation from the Thai government. If corresponding governments did the latter and began confiscating properties and land and didn't allow citizenship to Thai's wishing to live outside Thailand, through marriage to a foreigner,then it would be a different story, of that I am very sure.

[peterb17]

Has the OP thought- especially in this country, that not everyone gets married and perhaps you may have a boyfriend? think out of the box occasionally

[samran]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

has she had her final interview yet?

I blame Suthep.

My wife had her final interview with the citizenship committee last November. It had been a three year process - mainly wait (as expected) - to that point. From what I can gather, a 6 month-ish wait for ministerial and then HM sign off following that.

Suthep has thrown a major spanner in the works though - so none of that is happening. Would be interesting to see how far she has gotten but the queue has ground to a halt for everyone.

Rubbish and off topic, lets leave reds and yellows out of this topic please.

Edited,

Ok, not off topic but please no reds, yellows, pinks and blues please.

This wasn't a demonstration of political partisanship from me.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. I hate them all.

But, for the moment, Suthep is keeping the Ministry of Interior closed. So nothing is moving. So, yep, I blame Suthep.

[Rimbuman]

Has the OP thought- especially in this country, that not everyone gets married and perhaps you may have a boyfriend? think out of the box occasionally

My brother was gay and married with his boyfriend, but he is not with us anymore.

Sure, consideration about same sex relationships is even further away than than the original thoughts in the opening post, all of it very unfortunate. Thank you for mentioning this, with all respect.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rimbuman

[HardenedSoul]

Again, makes sense but times like this are over, colonialism is the past and limited ownership of land for personal use should not be a problem. Actually I see a lot of potential land waisted for no reason.

Sure no problem with restrictions about owning land, but the rules as they are now are xenofobic at least.

The OP was about equal treatment for Farang married with Thai and yes you can buy a passport for around 3 million baht I've heard.

All of this has nothing to do with why started this thread, It just would be nice to be treated fair and have a clear path to citizenship like state by samran in post #3 and I would ad naturalization (optional)

Do you like to be treated and handled like a low life because you aren't Thai?

It doesn't matter if colonial times are over. The potential for abuse of the system is there and frankly, the land you see being wasted is theirs to waste.

As for being treated like a low life is concerned, I don't give much of a damn because I'm not treated like a low life.

I can't buy land - so what? I can buy a condo.

I can't work in a job that a Thai can do - so what? I can't speak the lingo anyway. If I ran out of money, I'd go home and make some more.

I get charged double at some national parks - so what? I don't go

Hiya Jake,

You don't seem to be able to see beyond your own nose.

I have lived here for 11 years, married for 5. Built a house, got a new truck, Motorbikes for wife and I. Built a shop and restaurant in the village and it goes along nicely. Not big money but enough. My wife pays taxes for that.

I have been paying taxes for 5 years and also social security payments. I am contributing to the government coffers and also to the national health system. I know I won't be able to be an ESL teacher forever but getting naturalization would allow me, my wife and son to be together forever.

As it is, I have to show 400,000 baht annually or get the hell out. My wife and I have our shop but its her income and can't be counted as mine. So even though I have invested heavily in this country, pay my taxes, and pay my social payments, if our shop could support me and my wife in our older years, I still have to have 400,000 baht every year of my life until I die. Fair? Not one bit.

Not all of us have pensions sorted. Not all of us chose to stay in the rat race until we were 65 and then retire. I 'retired' when I was 32 and I still don't regret it. Not until I moved here anyway. I will of course find a way as I always do but it would be nice to have some reciprocation from the Thai government. If corresponding governments did the latter and began confiscating properties and land and didn't allow citizenship to Thai's wishing to live outside Thailand, through marriage to a foreigner,then it would be a different story, of that I am very sure.

I'm pretty sure you went into your situation with your eyes open and knew full well what would be expected of you in order to remain here.

I doubt anyone held a 9mm to your head and forced you to invest time, money and effort in a country that grants you no rights.

YOU made the decision to go all in

[pigeonjake]

@thequietman,

you say i cant see pst my own nose,,lol,,

you retired at 32, congradulations,

but you came here to teach right?

did you have degrees from your own country to teach or did you come here and buy, sorry study for a tefla,?

thats a bit of a loop hole in thailand that lets so many stay here, teaching,,just because they speak english,,

your moaning already that you have to keep 400,000 in the bank,,

yeh youve got a shop,

if you took the time to read some of my other posts in this thread you would see that i said if you had your own bussines then you should be able to work in it,,,

but you havnt, youve read a couple of posts from one page and had a go,,lol

wish ide never botherd,,

jake

[HardenedSoul]

I think this sums up the Thais' attitude to foreigners trying to circumvent the restrictions without making the effort very well. Long may it prevail

[thequietman]

@thequietman,

you say i cant see pst my own nose,,lol,,

you retired at 32, congradulations,

but you came here to teach right?

did you have degrees from your own country to teach or did you come here and buy, sorry study for a tefla,?

thats a bit of a loop hole in thailand that lets so many stay here, teaching,,just because they speak english,,

your moaning already that you have to keep 400,000 in the bank,,

yeh youve got a shop,

if you took the time to read some of my other posts in this thread you would see that i said if you had your own bussines then you should be able to work in it,,,

but you havnt, youve read a couple of posts from one page and had a go,,lol

wish ide never botherd,,

jake

Didn't come here to teach - boredom got the better of me.

I have a BA and I am currently doing my MBA.

Yes I come from an English speaking country.

I don't have to keep 400,000 in the bank........ only for 90 days before extension.

No, my wife owns the shop as I am not allowed to own property (except condo)

So, you maintain that if I have a shop I should be allowed to work in it but if I have a wife and son then I shouldn't be allowed to stay here unless I can provide 400,000 annually for the next 45 years!

You shouldn't have bothered......... really you shouldn't have.

[Anon999]

Looking at the overall quality of foreigners who come here, if you were in charge, would you be willing to make naturalisation an easy pathway? Moreover, speaking from my own POV as a Brit, Thailand, and many other countries for that matter, are all too aware of the white man's greedy, self-serving colonial ways. All one has to do is pick up a history book or watch the news to understand why we aren't exactly welcomed with open ares wherever we go.

Speak for yourself and do not include me in your 'we'.

[Rimbuman]

Again, makes sense but times like this are over, colonialism is the past and limited ownership of land for personal use should not be a problem. Actually I see a lot of potential land waisted for no reason.

Sure no problem with restrictions about owning land, but the rules as they are now are xenofobic at least.

The OP was about equal treatment for Farang married with Thai and yes you can buy a passport for around 3 million baht I've heard.

All of this has nothing to do with why started this thread, It just would be nice to be treated fair and have a clear path to citizenship like state by samran in post #3 and I would ad naturalization (optional)

Do you like to be treated and handled like a low life because you aren't Thai?

It doesn't matter if colonial times are over. The potential for abuse of the system is there and frankly, the land you see being wasted is theirs to waste.

As for being treated like a low life is concerned, I don't give much of a damn because I'm not treated like a low life.

I can't buy land - so what? I can buy a condo.

I can't work in a job that a Thai can do - so what? I can't speak the lingo anyway. If I ran out of money, I'd go home and make some more.

I get charged double at some national parks - so what? I don't go

Hiya Jake,

You don't seem to be able to see beyond your own nose.

I have lived here for 11 years, married for 5. Built a house, got a new truck, Motorbikes for wife and I. Built a shop and restaurant in the village and it goes along nicely. Not big money but enough. My wife pays taxes for that.

I have been paying taxes for 5 years and also social security payments. I am contributing to the government coffers and also to the national health system. I know I won't be able to be an ESL teacher forever but getting naturalization would allow me, my wife and son to be together forever.

As it is, I have to show 400,000 baht annually or get the hell out. My wife and I have our shop but its her income and can't be counted as mine. So even though I have invested heavily in this country, pay my taxes, and pay my social payments, if our shop could support me and my wife in our older years, I still have to have 400,000 baht every year of my life until I die. Fair? Not one bit.

Not all of us have pensions sorted. Not all of us chose to stay in the rat race until we were 65 and then retire. I 'retired' when I was 32 and I still don't regret it. Not until I moved here anyway. I will of course find a way as I always do but it would be nice to have some reciprocation from the Thai government. If corresponding governments did the latter and began confiscating properties and land and didn't allow citizenship to Thai's wishing to live outside Thailand, through marriage to a foreigner,then it would be a different story, of that I am very sure.

I'm pretty sure you went into your situation with your eyes open and knew full well what would be expected of you in order to remain here.

I doubt anyone held a 9mm to your head and forced you to invest time, money and effort in a country that grants you no rights.

YOU made the decision to go all in

You can take it the way you like and live your life comfortably not bothering with what's underneath which is fine and that is you but not me and hopefully many other fellow farang. You are free to do and believe just that but personally if find it rather shortsighted at least.

You don't have to care or consider about what I have said so far in this tread, but if for what reason you'd develop some shortcoming cutting you off the idea's you have to get around stuff you'd face yourself and make you swallow your own words.

This is not about being a tough guy ramming every obstacle in life, at a certain point you may lose the ability to do so. This is about .......

I stop now, read my other posts.

Good luck to you,

Rimbuman

[pigeonjake]

ah well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Greg Nixon]

Ethnocentric. Thailand is. Look this up on google.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ethnocentric. Thailand is. Look this up on google.

Thailand has taken in huge numbers of non-Tai peoples over the decades and centuries. There are significant populations of Thai-Muslims, Thai-Sikhs, loads of Thai-Chinese, Thai-Lao, and Thai-Khmer.

It is, in fact, one of the least "ethnocentric" countries in Asia.

Ask a Thai-Chinese how their life is and then go ask a Malaysian-Chinese, Korean-Chinese, Japanese-Chinese, or Indonesian-Chinese. Ask how the Chinese-Muslims feel in China. Or the aboriginal people in Taiwan. Or the Rohingya or other Muslim groups in Myanmar.

Then ask yourself again if Thailand is ethnocentric. And if you feel like you're treated like a second-class citizen, ask how hard you've tried to assimilate.

Then get back to us. OK?