Israel urges Abbas to end Hamas pact

[Morch]

This years pantomime, brought to us by John Kerry has taken the traditional theme of sabotaging the talks but making it appear that the other side was responsible for the inevitable breakdown. There is no peace process, there never was, it's just a shame that Israel released scores of murderers from it's jails in order to allow the charade to limp on for a bit. Perhaps Mr Kerry might choose an easier assignment next, such as opening a Disneyland in North Korea.

It was so doomed from the start. Oh well. So maybe forget about a two state solution. Like forever. Now what?

The PA is supposed to conduct some discussions during the weekend, probably issue a statement ratifying the agreement and hopefully clarifying some of the murkier, or trickier, points. The USA state department said Abbas assured them that any new Palestinian government will uphold previous agreements with Israel, renounce violence and basically play nice. How much of this is talk, remains to be seen - somewhat skeptic as to the degree Hamas and Islamic Jihad see themselves as compelled by these promises. Even if the leadership goes with it, they probably cannot exercise complete control over all factions.

The PA's Prime minister handed his resignation letter, as was agreed (but then he was eager to quit long before that). So far no similar move from the Hamas, probably delaying until after the PA's announcement.

[Steely Dan]

This years pantomime, brought to us by John Kerry has taken the traditional theme of sabotaging the talks but making it appear that the other side was responsible for the inevitable breakdown. There is no peace process, there never was, it's just a shame that Israel released scores of murderers from it's jails in order to allow the charade to limp on for a bit. Perhaps Mr Kerry might choose an easier assignment next, such as opening a Disneyland in North Korea.

It was so doomed from the start. Oh well. So maybe forget about a two state solution. Like forever. Now what?

The PA is supposed to conduct some discussions during the weekend, probably issue a statement ratifying the agreement and hopefully clarifying some of the murkier, or trickier, points. The USA state department said Abbas assured them that any new Palestinian government will uphold previous agreements with Israel, renounce violence and basically play nice. How much of this is talk, remains to be seen - somewhat skeptic as to the degree Hamas and Islamic Jihad see themselves as compelled by these promises. Even if the leadership goes with it, they probably cannot exercise complete control over all factions.

The PA's Prime minister handed his resignation letter, as was agreed (but then he was eager to quit long before that). So far no similar move from the Hamas, probably delaying until after the PA's announcement.

Empty platitudes and inevitably broken promises mean nothing, Hamas continues to rain rockets down on Israel, whatever they say is just a sideshow.

[geriatrickid]

Give the Palestinians their land back and surprise! All the problems will go away. So easy to do, but it will never happen. The war of civilizations started in 1947 and it is getting more and more dangerous.

I don't think Jordan will be willing to give up its country.

BTW, are you also proposing that the roughly 1 million Arabs of Jewish faith who lost their lands and possessions will get their land back or compensation, and if so from whom? I don't think the arab countries are going to want to accept responsibility for their forced deportations and seizures of assets.

[Morch]

This years pantomime, brought to us by John Kerry has taken the traditional theme of sabotaging the talks but making it appear that the other side was responsible for the inevitable breakdown. There is no peace process, there never was, it's just a shame that Israel released scores of murderers from it's jails in order to allow the charade to limp on for a bit. Perhaps Mr Kerry might choose an easier assignment next, such as opening a Disneyland in North Korea.

It was so doomed from the start. Oh well. So maybe forget about a two state solution. Like forever. Now what?

The PA is supposed to conduct some discussions during the weekend, probably issue a statement ratifying the agreement and hopefully clarifying some of the murkier, or trickier, points. The USA state department said Abbas assured them that any new Palestinian government will uphold previous agreements with Israel, renounce violence and basically play nice. How much of this is talk, remains to be seen - somewhat skeptic as to the degree Hamas and Islamic Jihad see themselves as compelled by these promises. Even if the leadership goes with it, they probably cannot exercise complete control over all factions.

The PA's Prime minister handed his resignation letter, as was agreed (but then he was eager to quit long before that). So far no similar move from the Hamas, probably delaying until after the PA's announcement.

Empty platitudes and inevitably broken promises mean nothing, Hamas continues to rain rockets down on Israel, whatever they say is just a sideshow.

Probably so.

I think that in general, though, most of the rockets fired nowadays are by Islamic Jihad and less by Hamas itself. While officially Hamas is in control of the Gaza strip, it is quite obvious it lacks both the ability and the will to enforce even a temporary ceasefire. This has to do with Palestinian public opinion, Hamas internal power struggles and Islamic Jihad doing their own thing. So even if they wanted to, not sure they could deliver, at least not without the situation getting messy (just as it did when they took over) - and doubt they're up for that.

The agreement with the PA, or at least, playing the unity card, is a lifeline for them as well as for the PA.

[geriatrickid]

The PM of Israel should hush. Hamas and the PA will be at each other's throats soon enough, In the meantime Israel has made agreements in the past with Hamas so it shouldn't be too hard on the PA. Who knows, maybe the PA will get Hamas to lighten up a bit. Its the Islamic Jihad and other factions launching the missiles and mortars at Israel now, and those groups pose a direct threat to Hamas. Egypt closed the smuggling tunnels cutting a part of Hamas profit centers as retribution for Hamas' support of the deposed Egyptian Islamic Brotherhood leader Morsi. Hamas was weakened and needed the PA as much as the PA needed Hamas. One thing is certain in the middle east and that is that the arabs are not homogeneous and have as much hatred for each other as they do for Israel.

Edit: I swear I didn't plagiarize Morch. I wrote my entry at the same time as him.

Edited April 26, 2014 by geriatrickid

[cheeryble]

Give the Palestinians their land back and surprise! All the problems will go away.

Israel will NEVER willingly give back anything to the Palestinians

What exactly are they supposed to "give back? There has never been an Arab country called Palestine in history.

The first "Palestinian" leader was born and grew up in Cairo and the "Palestinians" did not start claiming to be "Palestinians" until Israel trounced all those Arab armies in 1967.

Before 1947, It was the Jews who were known as Palestinians and the Arabs were known as Arabs, because that is exactly what they were - most of them came from Syria and Egypt, just like most of the Jews came from Europe, but the Jews were there first and always had a presence for something like 3,000 years. The Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and repeatedly got their butts kicked, but they have been whining about it ever since.

Whilst undermining the Palestinians' historical existence as a cohesive group (something you could apply to just about any non insulated country) you fail to mention that the people running Israel all come from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe.. It is not only fact but it is very visibly fact as their features have no resemblance to anyone from the present Israel region.

The Palestinians may be mixed, like all nations, but at least they look like they vaguely come from the area.

The Ashkenazies in Israel is like getting a bunch of Pygmies from the Congo arriving in Iceland saying "this is where we come from".

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited April 26, 2014 by cheeryble

[Ulysses G.]

Give the Palestinians their land back and surprise! All the problems will go away.

Israel will NEVER willingly give back anything to the Palestinians

What exactly are they supposed to "give back? There has never been an Arab country called Palestine in history.

The first "Palestinian" leader was born and grew up in Cairo and the "Palestinians" did not start claiming to be "Palestinians" until Israel trounced all those Arab armies in 1967.

Before 1947, It was the Jews who were known as Palestinians and the Arabs were known as Arabs, because that is exactly what they were - most of them came from Syria and Egypt, just like most of the Jews came from Europe, but the Jews were there first and always had a presence for something like 3,000 years. The Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and repeatedly got their butts kicked, but they have been whining about it ever since.

Whilst undermining the Palestinians' historical existence as a cohesive group (something you could apply to just about any non insulated country) you fail to mention that the people running Israel all come from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe.. It is not only fact but it is very visibly fact as their features have no resemblance to anyone from the present Israel region.

The Palestinians may be mixed, like all nations, but at least they look like they vaguely come from the area.

The Ashkenazies in Israel is like getting a bunch of Pygmies from the Congo arriving in Iceland saying "this is where we come from".

"The 'Palestinians' historical existence as a cohesive group" was as Arabs. They did not have a separate language, religion, culture or government from the others.

Most of the Jews and most of the Arabs were immigrants to the area, although many Jews had been there for thousand of years. What does their skin color have to do with anything anyway?

The truth is that Israel has been a country for more than 6 decades and that the Palestinians have no land of their own due to their own obstinacy. Doing foolish things like joining forces with with an avowed terror group that refuses to recognize the right of Israel to exist - Hamas - is the reason that they are in the position that they are in

Edited April 26, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

Give the Palestinians their land back and surprise! All the problems will go away.

Israel will NEVER willingly give back anything to the Palestinians

What exactly are they supposed to "give back? There has never been an Arab country called Palestine in history.

The first "Palestinian" leader was born and grew up in Cairo and the "Palestinians" did not start claiming to be "Palestinians" until Israel trounced all those Arab armies in 1967.

Before 1947, It was the Jews who were known as Palestinians and the Arabs were known as Arabs, because that is exactly what they were - most of them came from Syria and Egypt, just like most of the Jews came from Europe, but the Jews were there first and always had a presence for something like 3,000 years. The Arabs started the hostilities in the first place and repeatedly got their butts kicked, but they have been whining about it ever since.

Whilst undermining the Palestinians' historical existence as a cohesive group (something you could apply to just about any non insulated country) you fail to mention that the people running Israel all come from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe.. It is not only fact but it is very visibly fact as their features have no resemblance to anyone from the present Israel region.

The Palestinians may be mixed, like all nations, but at least they look like they vaguely come from the area.

The Ashkenazies in Israel is like getting a bunch of Pygmies from the Congo arriving in Iceland saying "this is where we come from".

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

About half, if not more, of the Israelis trace their roots to Middle Eastern or North African countries. Many share the same physical characteristics as natives of surrounding countries. Granted, most of the Israeli leadership has East European ancestry.

That has very little to do with the OP, though.

If you want to follow through, check the ancestry of the late chairman Arafat and Izz ad-Din al Qassam.

Many Palestinian family names indicate which country or city in the Middle East they originated from. There's certainly a fair amount of snobbery within their ranks towards certain groups.

[cheeryble]

Whilst undermining the Palestinians' historical existence as a cohesive group (something you could apply to just about any non insulated country) you fail to mention that the people running Israel all come from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe.. It is not only fact but it is very visibly fact as their features have no resemblance to anyone from the present Israel region.

The Palestinians may be mixed, like all nations, but at least they look like they vaguely come from the area.

The Ashkenazies in Israel is like getting a bunch of Pygmies from the Congo arriving in Iceland saying "this is where we come from".

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

About half, if not more, of the Israelis trace their roots to Middle Eastern or North African countries. Many share the same physical characteristics as natives of surrounding countries. Granted, most of the Israeli leadership has East European ancestry.

That has very little to do with the OP, though.

If you want to follow through, check the ancestry of the late chairman Arafat and Izz ad-Din al Qassam.

Many Palestinian family names indicate which country or city in the Middle East they originated from. There's certainly a fair amount of snobbery within their ranks towards certain groups.

Agreed Morch

….though you'll note I did say the people running Israel are from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

BTW I'm told that there's considerable separation and even dislike between the Ashkenazies who have taken over and the local Jews, kind of a class divide.

Do you know anything about this?

Also BTW have you read Schlomo Sands' book and what do you think of it?

Edited April 26, 2014 by cheeryble

[cup-O-coffee]

To be honest, I don't trust most Muslims, nor care to embrace their Machiavellian existence just about as much as the other guy. On the other hand, I feel the same way about the Israelis, yet I place most of the burden of responsibility, duty and obligation upon the the Israelis simply because they have the Palestinians by the curly hairs.

I despise the manner in which the Israeli government is treating the Palestinian people, and refuse to acknowledge it, and cry "anti-Semitic" if anyone suggests any sort of opposing view, and rather would instead have the entire world not acknowledge the 1937-style of treatment which goes on in Gaza all for the sake of whatever it is I don't know and don't care.

And yet on the other hand, there are not many people who could ever convince me that were the Palestinians to get all that they wanted, that very soon their government would be flooded with fanatics and all sorts of sick and twisted behaviors which would be a certain threat to the Israeli state.

But it doesn't stop there. If, in fact, the Palestinians (a.k.a. Muslim factions) had their dream to rid themselves of all Israelis (intentionally omitted the term "Jews) then there are not many people who could ever convince me that they would not stop there.

I am sick and tired of hearing about this mess, which will never be settled to the betterment of all mankind, as long as these two groups of people embrace their beliefs in their invisible friends, and what some invisible god said.

To be honest, and at the end of the day... given the choice, I would choose an Israeli or a "Jew" any day over any Muslim. They, at least, have contributed to the betterment of mankind throughout history exponentially more than any combined group of Muslims.

Are they all that? Certainly not, but at least they go about whatever it is that they go about with a certain tact and decency which fits in with most societies on this planet.

Do I agree with all Jews and Israelis and all that rot? Certainly not, but at least the way that they live their lives matches most of the ways I live my life, and at least there are more ways for me to get along with them than, say, most anal retentive Muslims I come across, and especially when their population increases to ther point that they invariably begin to get murderous and pose a threat to my existence.

AT the end of the day, I think both of these peoples need strict regulation by the non-Jewish / non-Muslim powers in the world, and that they be instructed that there is a line, and that line is not to be crossed. I am sick and tired of one group bearing the brunt of another group's visceral hatred, and the other group doing so, and crying foul when anyone bothers to oppose their methods... the Israelis (or "Jews"), I mean. Reminds me of babysitting a bunch of spoiled brats who can do no wrong, and their parents will bang you down if you do so much as correct them.

It's about as tiresome as two old, bickering and quarreling nags carrying an argument on and on and on and on and on.

Edited April 28, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Jingthing]

...

AT the end of the day, I think both of these peoples need strict regulation by the non-Jewish / non-Muslim powers in the world, and that they be instructed that there is a line, and that line is not to be crossed. I am sick and tired of one group bearing the brunt of another group's visceral hatred, and the other group doing so, and crying foul when anyone bothers to oppose their methods... the Israelis (or "Jews"), I mean. Reminds me of babysitting a bunch of spoiled brats who can do no wrong, and their parents will bang you down if you do so much as correct them.

...

OMG. The "mentality" of the white man's burden is not dead. At least in the "intellects" of some.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[cup-O-coffee]

...

AT the end of the day, I think both of these peoples need strict regulation by the non-Jewish / non-Muslim powers in the world, and that they be instructed that there is a line, and that line is not to be crossed. I am sick and tired of one group bearing the brunt of another group's visceral hatred, and the other group doing so, and crying foul when anyone bothers to oppose their methods... the Israelis (or "Jews"), I mean. Reminds me of babysitting a bunch of spoiled brats who can do no wrong, and their parents will bang you down if you do so much as correct them.

...

OMG. The "mentality" of the white man's burden is not dead. At least in the "intellects" of some.

White_mans_burden_the_journal_detroit.JPG

JT, why don't you simply say what you really mean without relying on links and copy and paste? LOL.

IMPOSSIBLE!

Next..........!

[Jingthing]

I did. I found your post extremely offensive and insulting to both Jews and Muslims and I think I made it clear why. That's my right, yes?

Edited April 29, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

...

AT the end of the day, I think both of these peoples need strict regulation by the non-Jewish / non-Muslim powers in the world, and that they be instructed that there is a line, and that line is not to be crossed. I am sick and tired of one group bearing the brunt of another group's visceral hatred, and the other group doing so, and crying foul when anyone bothers to oppose their methods... the Israelis (or "Jews"), I mean. Reminds me of babysitting a bunch of spoiled brats who can do no wrong, and their parents will bang you down if you do so much as correct them.

...

OMG. The "mentality" of the white man's burden is not dead. At least in the "intellects" of some.

White_mans_burden_the_journal_detroit.JPG

JT, why don't you simply say what you really mean without relying on links and copy and paste? LOL.

IMPOSSIBLE!

Next..........!

He did a good job of of expressing what he thought of your post and a lot more politely than it deserved. Who cares how he went about it?