Americans right to own land?

[Thaivacation]

Is it true that an american can own 1 rai of land in his own name and not require to open a company?

[ubonjoe]

Moved to the real estate forum.

Edit: Moved while I was posting. By whom?

Cleaned it up by removing some off topic posst so it can start out clean here.

Edited April 26, 2014 by ubonjoe

[Old Croc]

The OP may be referring to the US-Thailand Treaty of Amity which can give special rights and benefits to American citizens who wish to establish their businesses in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

Of course it is not true.

American or other foriegner, same same, cannot own land.

[wayned]

Although the US-Thailand Treaty of Amity does give Americans special rites as far as ownership of companies, it does not include the ownership of land. Even a sole propeitership company can not own land like a limited parnership. So the answer is No!

[phuketrichard]

Americans can have a fully shareholder company with all american an no thais BUT they can NOT Buy land in the that companys name.

AS far as I know.

[Torrens54]

555! (Ha,ha,ha!)

No, unlike Australia and probably America and a whole bunch of other countries where THAIS are allowed to own land, even stay on Spouse Visas and not have to Front-up to Immigration every 90 days, be entitled to Free Medical care and a whole bunch of other things, it would seem the THAIS are just not that generous, accommodating...call it what you will.

No, it is all a One Way Street I'm afraid. We GIVE, THEY TAKE! and if we don't like it, we can all go home, there are plenty more where we all came from.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Torrens54

[PattayaPhom]

555! (Ha,ha,ha!)

No, unlike Australia and probably America and a whole bunch of other countries where THAIS are allowed to own land, even stay on Spouse Visas and not have to Front-up to Immigration every 90 days, be entitled to Free Medical care and a whole bunch of other things, it would seem the THAIS are just not that generous, accommodating...call it what you will.

No, it is all a One Way Street I'm afraid. We GIVE, THEY TAKE! and if we don't like it, we can all go home, there are plenty more where we all came from.

I think the UK requires the sponsor to have at least 65K Sterling or an income of 18,5K pa, plus extra for each child. citezenship will only be granted after 5 which may have increased to 10 years.....compare that with he modest THB 400K or 40K per month income required for extensions in Thailnd, plus the fact citezenship can be applied for after only 3 years of extensions and paying tax/social which gives you health care......I dont see it as a one way street...in fact the criteria for Thailand is somewhat easier than for many Western countries. The land ownership regulations are there for a good reason, Thailand couldnt give two hoots about a villa on half a Rai in Phuket or wherever, its the vast agriculture land they are worried about being bought up our friends in the North

Edited April 27, 2014 by PattayaPhom

[Arkady]

The Treaty of Amity and Economic Relations Between the Kingdom of Thailand and the United States of American of May 29, 1966 replaced the previous treaty that did allow Americans to own land (up to 1 rai for residential purposes and more for commericial, agricultural or religious purposes), provided that the state of the US that the American in question came from allowed Thais to own land. That was the main reason that Thailand was so keen to sign the new treaty.

Thailand was economically dependent on US economic and military aid at that time. The new treaty was signed without opposition from the US government, which at that time felt US military interests were paramount, or from US corporations which not interested in engaging in land intensive businesses like plantations in Thailand. Having got the US to give up its rights to own land with the new treaty, it was a simple matter to cancel the treaties that gave other foreign nationals, e.g. the UK and other European countries, Japan, Indonesia etc, since none of these countries were nearly as important to Thailand as the US. The other countries didn't even have the bargaining power (or interest) to demand another treaty in place like the US.

Nowadays Thai government officials have forgotten the huge benefit it got from the current treaty with the US and resent the right of Americans to own their own businesses in the sectors it covers. At the time the treaty was drafted there were no restrictions on foreign business ownership in Thailand but the US obviously knew it was coming.

[Arkady]

555! (Ha,ha,ha!)

No, unlike Australia and probably America and a whole bunch of other countries where THAIS are allowed to own land, even stay on Spouse Visas and not have to Front-up to Immigration every 90 days, be entitled to Free Medical care and a whole bunch of other things, it would seem the THAIS are just not that generous, accommodating...call it what you will.

No, it is all a One Way Street I'm afraid. We GIVE, THEY TAKE! and if we don't like it, we can all go home, there are plenty more where we all came from.

There are many inconveniences in Thailand but foreigners married to Thais are at least allowed to get 1 year visa extensions based on marriage renewed indefinitely on production of B400k with few other questions asked. They are also, since 2008, allowed to apply for Thai nationality without first getting permanent residence, if they have been working in Thailand for 3 years earning at least B40k a month (80k for those not married to a Thai and they must also have PR first). Many farangs have now applied for Thai citizenship on this basis and I believe a few have already got it.

Since 1999 Thai women with foreign husbands or partners recovered their right to own land and in 1992 their half foreign children were entitled to Thai nationality for the first time. If you were married to a Thai in Thailand before 1992, your wife couldn't own land and your children were forced to be foreigners in their own country.

So, some things have improved, even if it is not yet perfect.

[vaultdweller0013]

Legally, I believe there is the ability to own 1 rai (only in Bangkok or Pataya, if I remember right) for residential purposes with a 40 million baht investment through the BOI in specific areas benefitial to the Thai economy. Even so, it doesn't confer all the rights of true ownership and isn't a rubber stamp process, so for all practical intents and purposes it really isn't a practival or attractive way to own land.

Edited April 27, 2014 by vaultdweller0013

[Arkady]

Legally, I believe there is the ability to own 1 rai (only in Bangkok or Pataya, if I remember right) for residential purposes with a 40 million baht investment through the BOI in specific areas benefitial to the Thai economy. Even so, it doesn't confer all the rights of true ownership and isn't a rubber stamp process, so for all practical intents and purposes it really isn't a practival or attractive way to own land.

You are right. This was an amendment to the Land Code in 1999 which was intended to help reinvigorate the property sector that was in a slump after the 1997 financial melt down. The original bill proposed by the Democrats, who were in power at the time, allowed foreigners married to Thais to buy 1 rai of land for residential purposes in certain areas without the B40m investment but it was shot down noisily in parliament by MPs from all parties, including some Democrat backbenchers, with the usual arguments that there would be no sq cm of land left for Thais to stand on. Sadly what remained in the final draft was virtually unusable and the Interior Ministry deliberately dragged it heels for 4 years before issuing the necessary ministerial regulations.

Actually this provision does confer all the rights of true ownership, if you can get everything lined up, but it is impractical. One problem is that you need the approval to purchase a specific piece of land and the approval process is convoluted which makes it unviable, unless you have perhaps leased the land already which makes it difficult for the owner to sell to anyone else while you wait for your approval. Another problem is that you have to invest B40m in some business that is considered beneficial with BoI promotion, excluding the cost of the land and the construction cost for your house. Initially you could just buy designated property funds that were issued to bail out the property sector but these all expired in the late 90s as they were mainly 10 year funds.

I have never heard of anyone buying land through this clause and I think it is likely that no one ever has. Probably anyone with the ability and inclination to invest B40m in a business and with another B40m plus to spare to buy land and build a house would just buy the property in the name of his company which could more easily be made to look legitimate with a substantial operating business. Most probably have a Thai wife and buy in her name, like many others, since the ability of Thai women with foreign husbands to own land was also restored by the Democrat government at the same time in 1999.

So the amendment remains an effectively redundant part of the Land Code which can be wheeled out to counter arguments that Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to buy land. Anyway here it is for interest.

Section 96 bis. The provisions of a foreigner who may acquire land by virtue of the provision of a treaty under Section 86 paragraph one shall not apply to alien who bring money to invest as amount specified in the Ministerial Regulation which not less than forty million baht. Thus, an alien shall aquire the land for residence not more than one rai and shall obtain permission from the Minister.

The acquisition of land of a foreigner in paragraph one shall be in accordance with the rules, procedures and conditions prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation in which shall contain at least the following essential matters:

(1) The type of business invested by an alien shall be beneficial to the economic and social of the country or shall be eligible to obtain the promotion of investment pursuant to the Investment Promotion Law as declared by the Board of Investment.

(2) The investment period needs to be maintained not less than three years.

(3) The location of land permitted for acquisition shall not beyond the confines of Bangkok , Pattaya, Municipality of land specified for residence purpose provided by the law of Town and Country Planning.

Section 96 tri. As alien who obtained permission to acquire land under Section 96 bis and does not comply with the rule or conditions prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation Section 96 bis paragraph two shall have to dispose of the land owned by him within the period of not less than one hundred and eighty days and not more than one year as specified by the Director General. The Director General shall have the power to dispose of such land when the time limit elapses.

A foreigner (alien) who obtained permission to acquire land under Section 96 bis and does not use it for residence within two years from the date of acquisition registration, the Director General shall have the power to dispose of such land.

[Arkady]

An off topic post and a reply have been deleted.