What is (IYHO), the single, most unwelcome change in Phuket over the years?

[patongphil]

For me it is definitely the traffic. When I first arrived some 14 years ago I would spend hours every day on my motorbike exploring the island. Nowadays even a trip down the road to the 7/11 can be a pain.

[NamKangMan]

Opening of Phuket Airpark, Opening of Central festival, Fast reliable internet, Opening of various beach clubs, West Sands water park, Opening of the bypass road, Various International schools, Introduction of various new shows such as Niramit etc...lots of positives in 10 years.

All private enterprises, except for the bypass road, which was probably funded by Bangkok, with a lot of the funds raided by Phuket officials.

Who cares who funded them....the topic was about improvements or un-improvements to Phuket IYHO over the last 10 years. No mention of government at all.

So, with the new demographic of tourists coming here, due to the poor admistration of the tourism industry, and these tourists not spending any money, how long do you think the places you mention will last????

[steelepulse]

I drove through Karon last night, that new roundabout must have received a nice budget for the new statues, but unfortunately that doesn't help fund the lifeguards at the most dangerous beach in Phuket!

[NamKangMan]

I drove through Karon last night, that new roundabout must have received a nice budget for the new statues, but unfortunately that doesn't help fund the lifeguards at the most dangerous beach in Phuket!

Hence, my question still remains.

[billythehat]

Opening of Phuket Airpark, Opening of Central festival, Fast reliable internet, Opening of various beach clubs, West Sands water park, Opening of the bypass road, Various International schools, Introduction of various new shows such as Niramit etc...lots of positives in 10 years.

All private enterprises, except for the bypass road, which was probably funded by Bangkok, with a lot of the funds raided by Phuket officials.

Who cares who funded them....the topic was about improvements or un-improvements to Phuket IYHO over the last 10 years. No mention of government at all.

So, with the new demographic of tourists coming here, due to the poor admistration of the tourism industry, and these tourists not spending any money, how long do you think the places you mention will last????

How long? Hab hmmmm... the Island’s ability to cope with the rapid rate of change and no real plan as to how manage infrastructure; roads, drainage, waste water treatment, etc, not long I fear. Maybe 5-10 years would seem a reasonable guess given the strain put on the existing systems, but hopefully that will be long enough for the incumbent wheezing old duffer’s who’ve invested squillions into property and other sundry businesses to clean up and move on to another paradise. You can only wring a clothe so mutt... (words of wisdom from the old duck who sells som tam at the entrance to Soi Andaman Sq.)

[Peterocket]

Opening of Phuket Airpark, Opening of Central festival, Fast reliable internet, Opening of various beach clubs, West Sands water park, Opening of the bypass road, Various International schools, Introduction of various new shows such as Niramit etc...lots of positives in 10 years.

All private enterprises, except for the bypass road, which was probably funded by Bangkok, with a lot of the funds raided by Phuket officials.

Who cares who funded them....the topic was about improvements or un-improvements to Phuket IYHO over the last 10 years. No mention of government at all.

So, with the new demographic of tourists coming here, due to the poor admistration of the tourism industry, and these tourists not spending any money, how long do you think the places you mention will last????

Very hard question to answer and I guess slightly rhetorical because no-one knows the answer. Once again though not really much to do with the OP anyhow.

[NamKangMan]

@ Peterocket

So, we can't put an exact time frame on it, but we know that's the direction it's heading, and that time will come.

I think that says it all.

[NamKangMan]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

[JetsetBkk]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Yes, but people have been saying that for 10 years or more.

[hansgruber]

I drove through Karon last night, that new roundabout must have received a nice budget for the new statues, but unfortunately that doesn't help fund the lifeguards at the most dangerous beach in Phuket!

I don't understand why hotels don't get taxed by the local administration. Lifeguard tax, hotels all benefit from the beaches so they should be maintaining them and provide safety seeing they are the ones profiting.

I mean 2000 baht a month from all hotels in the area would provide enough money for the beaches to be kept clean and safe.

[nedkellylives]

I drove through Karon last night, that new roundabout must have received a nice budget for the new statues, but unfortunately that doesn't help fund the lifeguards at the most dangerous beach in Phuket!

I don't understand why hotels don't get taxed by the local administration. Lifeguard tax, hotels all benefit from the beaches so they should be maintaining them and provide safety seeing they are the ones profiting.

I mean 2000 baht a month from all hotels in the area would provide enough money for the beaches to be kept clean and safe.

All the decent resort hotels have their own pools usually more than one which the guests use, they most of the time only sit at the beach on hired chairs and don't swim

The beach chair bandits should keep the beaches clean, they think they own the beaches and the govt lets them get away with it

Could there be corruption involved, of coarse not this is Phuket

[madmitch]

I drove through Karon last night, that new roundabout must have received a nice budget for the new statues, but unfortunately that doesn't help fund the lifeguards at the most dangerous beach in Phuket!

I don't understand why hotels don't get taxed by the local administration. Lifeguard tax, hotels all benefit from the beaches so they should be maintaining them and provide safety seeing they are the ones profiting.

I mean 2000 baht a month from all hotels in the area would provide enough money for the beaches to be kept clean and safe.

This exists already. Hotels and guesthouses need a licence from the tessabaan in order to operate legally. This costs around 1000 baht for a small establishment, though I don't know whether it's a different price for a larger hotel.

There is also a theoretical 1% room tax. I would guess that most small hotels and guesthouses pay nothing and the larger hotels pay a small portion of what they are supposed to, the amount of tax paid being directly proportional to the size of envelope paid directly to the collector.

Edited May 1, 2014 by madmitch

[Peterocket]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Well Hilton, Central, Mercure, Centara, Marriot the airport authority etc don't seem to agree. Not that I doubt the wisdom of your six friends but I would have thought the investors of these projects have put significant time into researching the long term profitability of investing here in Phuket.

These reports outline quite a few positive projects on the island:

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/phuket-hotel-market-update-2014-03.pdf

[madmitch]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Well Hilton, Central, Mercure, Centara, Marriot the airport authority etc don't seem to agree. Not that I doubt the wisdom of your six friends but I would have thought the investors of these projects have put significant time into researching the long term profitability of investing here in Phuket.

These reports outline quite a few positive projects on the island:

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/phuket-hotel-market-update-2014-03.pdf

NKM is referring to traditional Western markets and the report actually states "Traditional European market share retracted to 16% led by Germany, U.K. and Sweden."

Look at the figures: Asian and Russian markets up on the graph, Australia, although not actually a Western nation but with a population that could be deemed typical of such, down.

The big hotel groups you quoted don't care where their customers are from.

And as for the infrastructure projects, only three of the ten are underway. The others are either in the process of a feasibility study or just a consideration.

[NamKangMan]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Well Hilton, Central, Mercure, Centara, Marriot the airport authority etc don't seem to agree. Not that I doubt the wisdom of your six friends but I would have thought the investors of these projects have put significant time into researching the long term profitability of investing here in Phuket.

These reports outline quite a few positive projects on the island:

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/phuket-hotel-market-update-2014-03.pdf

NKM is referring to traditional Western markets and the report actually states "Traditional European market share retracted to 16% led by Germany, U.K. and Sweden."

Look at the figures: Asian and Russian markets up on the graph, Australia, although not actually a Western nation but with a population that could be deemed typical of such, down.

The big hotel groups you quoted don't care where their customers are from.

And as for the infrastructure projects, only three of the ten are underway. The others are either in the process of a feasibility study or just a consideration.

I have no doubt that while tourist numbers maybe up, the Phuket economy is contracting.

Edited May 1, 2014 by NamKangMan

[Peterocket]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Well Hilton, Central, Mercure, Centara, Marriot the airport authority etc don't seem to agree. Not that I doubt the wisdom of your six friends but I would have thought the investors of these projects have put significant time into researching the long term profitability of investing here in Phuket.

These reports outline quite a few positive projects on the island:

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/phuket-hotel-market-update-2014-03.pdf

NKM is referring to traditional Western markets and the report actually states "Traditional European market share retracted to 16% led by Germany, U.K. and Sweden."

Look at the figures: Asian and Russian markets up on the graph, Australia, although not actually a Western nation but with a population that could be deemed typical of such, down.

The big hotel groups you quoted don't care where their customers are from.

And as for the infrastructure projects, only three of the ten are underway. The others are either in the process of a feasibility study or just a consideration.

Australian arrivals down by about 5,000, Russian arrivals up about 150,000 and Chinese arrivals up about 400,000

Correct most businesses, unless they are stupid, don't care where their customers will come from so therefore the tourist industry and it's by-products such as shows and activities will continue to increase.

[NamKangMan]

@ billythehat

I had a similar conversation a few months ago with some friends. There were about 6 of us in the discussion.

A business owner here actually came in at the lowest - he said 3 years and Phuket's changed beyond repair for western tourism.

Most other answers ranged between 5 to 8 years.

Well Hilton, Central, Mercure, Centara, Marriot the airport authority etc don't seem to agree. Not that I doubt the wisdom of your six friends but I would have thought the investors of these projects have put significant time into researching the long term profitability of investing here in Phuket.

These reports outline quite a few positive projects on the island:

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/phuket-hotel-market-update-2014-03.pdf

NKM is referring to traditional Western markets and the report actually states "Traditional European market share retracted to 16% led by Germany, U.K. and Sweden."

Look at the figures: Asian and Russian markets up on the graph, Australia, although not actually a Western nation but with a population that could be deemed typical of such, down.

The big hotel groups you quoted don't care where their customers are from.

And as for the infrastructure projects, only three of the ten are underway. The others are either in the process of a feasibility study or just a consideration.

Australian arrivals down by about 5,000, Russian arrivals up about 150,000 and Chinese arrivals up about 400,000

Correct most businesses, unless they are stupid, don't care where their customers will come from so therefore the tourist industry and it's by-products such as shows and activities will continue to increase.

When's the last time you sat next to one of those 400,000 Chinese tourists in a bar, or restaurant, or saw one in a shop here?

[LivinginKata]

When's the last time you sat next to one of those 400,000 Chinese tourists in a bar, or restaurant, or saw one in a shop here?

See them in the 7-11s or Family Marts

[NamKangMan]

When's the last time you sat next to one of those 400,000 Chinese tourists in a bar, or restaurant, or saw one in a shop here?

See them in the 7-11s or Family Marts

So, in the future, we can expect to see a 7/11 and/or Family Mart every 50 meters, instead of every 100 meters.

I suppose instant noodle sales will be the highest in Phuket for the whole of Thailand.

Edited May 1, 2014 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

Funny thing is I noticed a 7-11 closed down today in Kata.

[NamKangMan]

Funny thing is I noticed a 7-11 closed down today in Kata.

That's because no one can park near enough to the shop due to the tuk-tuks.

[madmitch]

Most of the newer tourist attractions, e.g. huge restaurants catering for groups, large shops selling latex, souvenirs etc., shows such as Siam Niramit and the cabaret show opposite Tesco Lotus have been opened to cater exclusively for tour groups, mostly either Chinese or Russian. Day trips have never been so popular, again nearly all Chinese customers; in fact many of these tours are so busy that many Western tourists simply don't want to go any more. Who wants to be herded around on a crowded beach that just a few years ago was unspoilt? Yes, the Chinese.

This is the future.

I'm not saying the Western tourist will disappear and I think it's the two extremes that will continue to attract Westerners, the budget end and the luxury end. It's the middle ground where I foresee Phuket's Western tourism diminishing, those visitors that typically stay in three star family hotels now completely dominated by Russians and Chinese. Well, that's my thinking, anyway and I may well be wrong. Only time will tell. Three years? Six years? Who knows.

[madmitch]

Funny thing is I noticed a 7-11 closed down today in Kata.

Probably closed for expansion.

[LivinginKata]

Funny thing is I noticed a 7-11 closed down today in Kata.

Probably closed for expansion.

Not sure. My wife reliabley informs me that 7-11s only have a 5 year franchise. Quite major money to renew the franchise.

[EBlair48]

What is (IYHO), the single, most unwelcome change in Phuket over the years?

The shift from western English speaking tourists to the hordes of Chinese and Russians, both of whom seem very accepting of all the other unwelcome changes.

Russians seem to not think taxis are too expensive, apparently high prices are the norm at their home, though crapped in beaches might cost Phuket a few Russians at some point.

Chinese aren't using taxis them as they are in tour groups and they don't hit the beach but opt for shopping and whoring. The only emerging economy missing form Phuket's tourism future is India, I guess they have their own beaches.

I'd also put environmental degradation at the top of the list. No one wants to swim in excrement or walk in trash.

We're about due for a major disastor involving the dump, too. Some kind of explosion with deadly fumes, or a leaching of mercury, maybe..

I agree that corruption is the basis for all the other problems. Fix that broken window first.

[NamKangMan]

Funny thing is I noticed a 7-11 closed down today in Kata.

Probably closed for expansion.

Not sure. My wife reliabley informs me that 7-11s only have a 5 year franchise. Quite major money to renew the franchise.

Maybe we can throw a question out there for members in business here.

Have you ever sold a product or service to a Russian, Indian, Chinese or Arab tourists, and if so, when, and how much?

It can be alcohol, food or accommodation, massage etc - whatever your business is.

[simon43]

Have you ever sold a product or service to a Russian, Indian, Chinese or Arab tourists, and if so, when, and how much?

At my small airport (transit) hotels, a staggering 79% (according to my Agoda stats) of customers are eiither mainland Chinese, Hong Kong or Taiwanese. Then there are Koreans and Japanese. Behind them in numbers are the traditional 'western' guests, then Indians, Russians and Arabs.

For my businesses, the guest demographic has completely changed over the past few years, with western guests market plummeting.

Since my hotels are small, I do not have the problems of large tour groups, but Chinese guests (at the lower hotel star rating) are not good spenders - I might get rich if I charged extra for the hot water for their pot noodles... (seriously).

I get only a few Russian and Indian tourists. Interestingly, at ex #2's hotel, she wants to ban all Russian and Indian customers, based on the 'behaviour/attitude' of previous guests of those nationalities....

The outlook for my businesses is fairly good, due to the airport/passengers. But I would much prefer to have a better mixture of guests of all nationalities/spending profiles.

On the positive side, my conversational Chinese is improving

Simon

Edited May 2, 2014 by simon43

[NamKangMan]

Have you ever sold a product or service to a Russian, Indian, Chinese or Arab tourists, and if so, when, and how much?

At my small airport (transit) hotels, a staggering 79% (according to my Agoda stats) of customers are eiither mainland Chinese, Hong Kong or Taiwanese. Then there are Koreans and Japanese. Behind them in numbers are the traditional 'western' guests, then Indians, Russians and Arabs.

For my businesses, the guest demographic has completely changed over the past few years, with western guests market plummeting.

Since my hotels are small, I do not have the problems of large tour groups, but Chinese guests (at the lower hotel star rating) are not good spenders - I might get rich if I charged extra for the hot water for their pot noodles... (seriously).

I get only a few Russian and Indian tourists. Interestingly, at ex #2's hotel, she wants to ban all Russian and Indian customers, based on the 'behaviour/attitude' of previous guests of those nationalities....

The outlook for my businesses is fairly good, due to the airport/passengers. But I would much prefer to have a better mixture of guests of all nationalities/spending profiles.

On the positive side, my conversational Chinese is improving

Simon

I believe your hotel/s are near the airport. Are your customers mainly using your hotel as a stop over before going to other destinations in Thailand?

In other words, do any of them really stay on Phuket for more than 2 nights - one night on arrival and one night on departure?

[simon43]

Are your customers mainly using your hotel as a stop over before going to other destinations in Thailand?

ALL customers are simply using my accommodation as a one-night stopover, either because they arrive on late-night flights, have early-morning departing flights, or are 'in-transit' to/from Samui etc.

So a fair proportion of my guests do not actually visit Phuket, but have/will visit other destinations, such as Khao Lak/Similan Islands etc

From chatting with my Asian customers, their main complaint is about the high price of taxis, (many of my Chinese guests 'attempt' to use the Airport Bus service to Patong). I have never heard any of them complain about the lack of infrastructure (apart from public transport), or complain about the dirty seas, litter everywhere etc.

It is as if the problems that we expats moan about are invisible to my Asian guests.

Edited May 2, 2014 by simon43

[LivinginKata]

As some of you might know, my wife and I rent apartments for long stay guests. We have places in Patong and Kata. While the number of enquires from Russians has increased in Patong, none were translated into paying guests. Completely different story in Kata. I would say that over 90% of enquires were from Russians and most translated into paying guests. They turn up in long term hire cars, don't look like they are skimping to me. Always younger couples, good looking men and stunning gals. No enquiries from Indians or Chinese, but some Arabs.