Certifying income at U.S. Embassy

[Guitar God]

Don't waste your printer paper. I just printed off 20 sheets of bank statements and other proof of income and brought them to the embassy to get a certificate of proof of income.

The were not the least bit interested in looking at any of it. Not even a one page annual statement.

They just gave me a form for me to fill out and put in any numbers I wanted and sign it. They took my 50 bucks and stamped it.

Same procedure with a declaration stating you're not married. When I went in for that a while ago it was basically, "Are you married? Promise? 50 bucks please. "

Oh, and they don't take credit cards right now either so make sure you bring cash.

[ubonjoe]

Nothing new there.

You just swear an oath before a consular officer that what you put on the income affidavit is true and correct,

Making a false statement is a criminal offense.

[JLCrab]

Some US Consular officials -- before signing your Income affidavit -- will ask if you are aware that Thai Immigration has the right to ask for corroborating documents to your sworn statement of income.

As you are swearing and affirm that the number you provide in the affidavit as to your monthly income is the truth, I would doubt that any Consular official before whom you would make your statement would say to just put in any number you want.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[lopburi3]

As said this is normal procedure at a number of Embassies as they are not set up to check/verify earning statements - they can only confirm your signature under oath and penalty of home country law, that the amount you wrote down and sign as true is true. And when did you do this? That last tweet I read was they were accepting credit cards again for payment.

[khwaibah]

The US Consulate in Chiang Mai takes credit cards. Just came from there.

[Evilbaz]

no delete function

Edited April 29, 2014 by Evilbaz

[Evilbaz]

It's posts like the OP that has Thai Immi officers now asking for corroborating evidence to your affadivit - the sworn statement is your testimony and if required to be proven needs to be done by you - not the Embassy/Consulate witness.

Be aware that an Embassy or a Consulate, once inside, you are legally liable to that country's laws.

Swearing a false affadivit before a Federal official under U.S. law is liable for a penalty up to 10 years imprisonment.

The last two annual extensions I have been asked for corroborating bank and pension statements at Phuket Immigration.

[Guitar God]

I can understand that they only act as a notary witnessing a signature to a declaration stating you're not currently married, since certificates of non-marriage don't exist and it's difficult to prove a negative.

Proof of income is another matter, it's easy enough to look at a bank statement and compare the number on the declaration with the corroborating evidence and see if they match.

My point was that it"s a waste of time and money if all you get is a notarized copy of your own declaration where nothing has been verified.

If Thai officials want real proof, a bank statement is better proof than this so what's the point of the declaration? Bureaucracy.

Like I said, don't waste your time printing anything off for the embassy, they don't care.

The Embassy in Bangkok had a sign at the cashier window saying that until further notice, they could not accept credit (or debit) cards for payment.

In an email from them on the 14th I received this message:

Message for U.S. Citizens:

U.S. Consulate General Amsterdam Consular Cashier Unable to Accept Credit Card Payments

I assumed it was all US embassy's and consulates. They said it was due to "unforeseen technical problems".

[ubonjoe]

US law does not allow consular offices to certify or confirm any document is the reason that all that can be done is an affidavit.

[lopburi3]

On the 14th am sure they were not accepting - but as of 18th they were from information they made public on tweeter.

ACS Bangkok ‏@ACSBKK Apr 18

We have resumed accepting payment by credit card. Thanks for your patience.

Expand

[JLCrab]

The very long process for actually certifying a document originating in the USA for purposes here in Thailand is summarized here:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/notary_authentication.html

While it is not contained on the Income Affidavit form on the US Embassy Bangkok website, the general affidavit form on the website contains the following provision:

4. The U. S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement.

Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[Guitar God]

And today they weren't accepting credit cards again. Their unforeseen technical circumstances must have reoccurred.

<p>

On the 14th am sure they were not accepting - but as of 18th they were from information they made public on tweeter.

ACS Bangkok ‏@ACSBKK Apr 18

We have resumed accepting payment by credit card. Thanks for your patience.

Expand

[lopburi3]

Actually as they accept both USD and Baht never even considered using a credit card myself - but expect that is from being an expat for 50 years where cash is the normal payment means. If they were not accepting today indeed something must have happened.

[Suradit69]

Don't waste your printer paper. I just printed off 20 sheets of bank statements and other proof of income and brought them to the embassy to get a certificate of proof of income.

The were not the least bit interested in looking at any of it. Not even a one page annual statement.

You might have taken the time to check out the embassy website or spent a few minutes doing a search on Thai Visa beforehand since this isn't a closely guarded secret that they just provide a notary service.

On the other hand, you could get documentation from the sources of income that you can take along as back up when you go to Immigrations. After they read your post here, they'll be more likely to ask everyone for further proof in future.

[colin2]

Should have given them 20 sheets of plain paper and paid them with 50 sheets of plain paper

Edited April 29, 2014 by colin2

[thrilled]

Strange how they will just take your word for it.I do applications for credit cards and it's about the same thing.They ask for annual income,then they give ya credit 1000,20,000 or more just on your word.No wonder credit is so large

[JLCrab]

Strange how they will just take your word for it.I do applications for credit cards and it's about the same thing.They ask for annual income,then they give ya credit 1000,20,000 or more just on your word.No wonder credit is so large

At least for US Embassy on Income Affidavit they don't take your word for it ... they make no comment yea or nay on the veracity of your sworn statement just that they have verified that you indeed were the one making it.

[Guitar God]

All I said is don't waste your time or paper printing out proof for the embassy because they're not interested in seeing it. This document is colloquially referred to as "proof of income". I didn't dig through the embassy site to find more than what I needed to make an appointment but I was surprised that they weren't interested in any proof I brough.

Ubonjoe explained why but I'm used to the government requiring supporting documents. When I file a tax return it requires a W-2 and loads of other paperwork, not just a notarized statement saying how much I made.

I've supplied supporting documents for every application I've made, whether they asked for it here or not. I've assumed that if I didn't supply it, they'd ask for it anyway, especially since I'm sure they're well aware of the fact that embassies don't verify anything except the signature.

It seems like you're blaming me for the Thai government asking for supporting documents. I'm sure they've done it long before people mentioned it on internet forums and I'm sure they know that the affidavits are not verified by the embassies.

My advice to people going to the embassy for this service is to bring your passport and 50 bucks or 1500 THB and a pen. When you file your application, include supporting documents so the process isn't delayed.

It's posts like the OP that has Thai Immi officers now asking for corroborating evidence to your affadivit - the sworn statement is your testimony and if required to be proven needs to be done by you - not the Embassy/Consulate witness.

Be aware that an Embassy or a Consulate, once inside, you are legally liable to that country's laws.

Swearing a false affadivit before a Federal official under U.S. law is liable for a penalty up to 10 years imprisonment.

The last two annual extensions I have been asked for corroborating bank and pension statements at Phuket Immigration.

[Kf6vci]

Yeah - last time, they wouldn't take cash. They have some notice about "due to circumstances out of their control"... Guess they have been hacked and someone freaked out. My wife had to go out in the heat and find an ATM. Bloody nuissance - they might as well put that in red on the ACS appointment page.

As a spouse, add your name to the appointment - or you won't be allowed in.

[JLCrab]

While it seems the OP does have the required 65K per month income in some form, his choice of words that a Consular Official said to just put in any number you want could have been better stated. No Consular Official would say to put in any number to which you are not willing to swear is the truth. What gets to Thai Immigration officials is when someone posts on this or any other forum that: I know loads of Americans who swear that they have the 65K per month income when they certainly do not.

There really is no way for anyone at the US Embassy in Thailand to have the time, expertise, or resources to know for certain that documents originating in the USA and supplied to them are authentic or that they have not been altered or tampered. That is why the authentication of documents runs through the convoluted procedure that I linked in Post #11.

Edited April 30, 2014 by JLCrab

[lopburi3]

When you file your application, include supporting documents so the process isn't delayed.

You should supply exactly what is asked and nothing more for fastest service - immigration is not interested in a bunch of extra paperwork and will have to review and return taking extra time.

[Guitar God]

Not to be contrary but for example, U.S. immigration doesn't specify what to bring and with them, more was better. The first time my wife went there with a few papers she was declined, the second time she was approved and that was only after she kept presenting more and more evidence that she wasn't planning on overstaying her visa until they were finally convinced.

My lawyer included an annual statement in addition to the (imho, fairly worthless) embassy affidavit with my application. I'd rather give them one paper they might not want than have to go back.

[Evilbaz]

That's fine - but there is no set list of documents required at Immi - only minimum requirements - then "up to them".

It has changed every time I've gone for the last 5 annual extensions.

The next one - proof of health insurance is my guess.

[JLCrab]

Whatever might be the vagaries of Thai Immigration policy regarding extension of stay, the US State Department policy on certification of documents originating in the US for purposes outside the US is the same at all Embassies and Consulates world-wide which is probably why Thai Immigration accepts it.

[Amavel]

How far in advance of Retirement visa annual extension, are the Affidavits of Income valid for?

I get many answers. 15 days, 30 days, 3 months and 6 months. I can't seem to find it on Thai Immigration website.

[ubonjoe]

How far in advance of Retirement visa annual extension, are the Affidavits of Income valid for?

I get many answers. 15 days, 30 days, 3 months and 6 months. I can't seem to find it on Thai Immigration website.

It is 6 months. It was made official about a year ago.

Have a look at this: PCEC-NOTICE-THAI-IMMIGRATION-NEWS-JUNE-6.pdf

[Evilbaz]

^^^

That's a great site for continually upgraded visa extensions etc.

Although, each Immi centre can still vary their own requirements.

[ubonjoe]

^^^

That's a great site for continually upgraded visa extensions etc.

Although, each Immi centre can still vary their own requirements.

That was a file not a website.

The file contains the order directing all immigration offices to allow 6 month old income letters. There already has been a case where a member showed a print out of the order to an immigration officer that said it had to be within 30 days and the officer agreed to the 6 months.

[Evilbaz]

^^^

That's a great site for continually upgraded visa extensions etc.

Although, each Immi centre can still vary their own requirements.

That was a file not a website.

The file contains the order directing all immigration offices to allow 6 month old income letters. There already has been a case where a member showed a print out of the order to an immigration officer that said it had to be within 30 days and the officer agreed to the 6 months.

A file from the Pattaya City Expats Club website ...

[ubonjoe]

^^^

That's a great site for continually upgraded visa extensions etc.

Although, each Immi centre can still vary their own requirements.

That was a file not a website.

The file contains the order directing all immigration offices to allow 6 month old income letters. There already has been a case where a member showed a print out of the order to an immigration officer that said it had to be within 30 days and the officer agreed to the 6 months.

A file from the Pattaya City Expats Club website ...

You wrote site.

Did you open the file to notice that if contains the immigration order in Thai.