Support for reform up amid poll doubt

[BillyBobThai]

I do not know how many times I have read, we are farangs, and have no say so in what goes on in Thai politics. From my point of view, the reds are corrupt and have been stealing the wealth of Thailand for the last three years. The democrats are a little better, but not by much, maybe 1%. The whole system here in Thailand is rigged from top to bottom and side to side. There is no one, from the farmer to construction worker to teachers to god forbid the medical doctors, who in some way, shape or form, is not corrupt.

I think that reforms, across the board, need to be implimented before an election, but I do not expect to see them. The Thai people ar getting the government that they deserve and voted for.

For myself, my income has gone up about 4500 baht a month since last year. I am in this for ME, not these kwai.

[GunterChiangMai]

Notice the Dusit numbers are now too vague to check?

"Asked what the country should do first - hold an election or implement reform - 49.6 per cent said reform, 38 per cent wanted an election, 6 per cent said either do both at the same time or don't do anything, while 6.2 per cent were not certain."

Only to 1 decimal place.... I view Dusit polls as simply political marketing with fake numbers attached. The numbers were identified as fake because they use to give them to 2 decimal places, and you could therefore see they were impossible and hence fake made up numbers.

e.g. let me grab 3 to show you their polls are fake:

Anand tops Neutral PM Poll (link)

1,118 polled, 40.55% supported former premier Anand Panyarachun = 453.349 people, totally impossible (453 people would be 40.52%, 454 people would be 40.61%)

Many fear trouble will escalate Suan Dusit poll (link)

1,588 people polled, 13.81 per cent said they hoped to see constructive political moves... thats 219.3 people which is impossible, (219 = 13.79%)

Yingluk on reform (link)

Suan Dusit poll, meanwhile, revealed 91.55 per cent of 1,240 Bangkokians surveyed, believe politicians are the cause of division in society today, = 1135.22 people impossible (1135= 91.53%)

You see the pattern? The numbers are just made up.

So Dusit wanted us to think, we wanted to vote for Anand, that there would be trouble if we didn't, and that politicians are the cause of division (and not, say a certain general and his plots and fake polls and schemes and gunmen and handgrenades).

OK, so here what are we supposed to think? God only knows, because that poll makes no sense even in the logical view:

Of the 1,147 respondents, 52 per cent said they feared the new poll would be a waste of money, while 15.6 per cent wanted the Election Commission to ensure a free and fair election, and 14.6 per cent said some parties may boycott the election again.

Are these either/or? Because how else can only 15.6 per cent of people want the Election Commission to run a fair and free election?? Do the other 84.4% want unfair elections?

So I think this sentence is just filler for the message. To pad it out.

About 63 per cent believe the July 20 election will be disrupted by protests, though 25 per cent believe the poll will go smoothly, while 12 per cent were unsure what might happen, a survey by National Institute of Development Administration (Nida) showed.

Perhaps this is the message they want to convey? that elections will be disrupted. i.e. pretending Suthep still have leverage.

When asked about Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's move to seek cooperation from the military, political parties and the Justice Ministry's permanent secretary to find solutions for the turmoil, 43 per cent of people in the Dusit Poll said they wanted him to act without any political motivation or vested interest.

Oh I see, it's marketing for Abhisits thing from yesterday!

Some 32 per cent said he should be given a chance to find a solution, 10 per cent said what he was doing was part of a political game, while 8.9 per cent said if all sides cooperated, Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions. Some 4.6 per cent said they found Abhisit's attempt an interesting move worth attention as he has opponents and supporters

Ahh right, yeh, it's Abhisit marketing PR dressed up as a fake poll. You can see it in this sentence, these clauses are not mutually exclusive, the message is right there in the sentence:

"give him a chance" "Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions if all sides cooperated", "Abhisits attempt is an interesting move, worth attention"

This is the message they're trying to convey via this fake poll.

But if you imagine the polling form question, it makes no sense:

Check One:

[ ] Abhisit should be given a chance to find a solution

[ ] Abhisit is part of a political game

[ ] If all sides cooperated, Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions

[ ] Abhisits attempt is an interesting move worth attention as he has opponents and supporters.

[ ] Don't know

Wow this is a phd in politics!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ginjag]

Notice the Dusit numbers are now too vague to check?

"Asked what the country should do first - hold an election or implement reform - 49.6 per cent said reform, 38 per cent wanted an election, 6 per cent said either do both at the same time or don't do anything, while 6.2 per cent were not certain."

Only to 1 decimal place.... I view Dusit polls as simply political marketing with fake numbers attached. The numbers were identified as fake because they use to give them to 2 decimal places, and you could therefore see they were impossible and hence fake made up numbers.

e.g. let me grab 3 to show you their polls are fake:

Anand tops Neutral PM Poll (link)

1,118 polled, 40.55% supported former premier Anand Panyarachun = 453.349 people, totally impossible (453 people would be 40.52%, 454 people would be 40.61%)

Many fear trouble will escalate Suan Dusit poll (link)

1,588 people polled, 13.81 per cent said they hoped to see constructive political moves... thats 219.3 people which is impossible, (219 = 13.79%)

Yingluk on reform (link)

Suan Dusit poll, meanwhile, revealed 91.55 per cent of 1,240 Bangkokians surveyed, believe politicians are the cause of division in society today, = 1135.22 people impossible (1135= 91.53%)

You see the pattern? The numbers are just made up.

So Dusit wanted us to think, we wanted to vote for Anand, that there would be trouble if we didn't, and that politicians are the cause of division (and not, say a certain general and his plots and fake polls and schemes and gunmen and handgrenades).

OK, so here what are we supposed to think? God only knows, because that poll makes no sense even in the logical view:

Of the 1,147 respondents, 52 per cent said they feared the new poll would be a waste of money, while 15.6 per cent wanted the Election Commission to ensure a free and fair election, and 14.6 per cent said some parties may boycott the election again.

Are these either/or? Because how else can only 15.6 per cent of people want the Election Commission to run a fair and free election?? Do the other 84.4% want unfair elections?

So I think this sentence is just filler for the message. To pad it out.

About 63 per cent believe the July 20 election will be disrupted by protests, though 25 per cent believe the poll will go smoothly, while 12 per cent were unsure what might happen, a survey by National Institute of Development Administration (Nida) showed.

Perhaps this is the message they want to convey? that elections will be disrupted. i.e. pretending Suthep still have leverage.

When asked about Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's move to seek cooperation from the military, political parties and the Justice Ministry's permanent secretary to find solutions for the turmoil, 43 per cent of people in the Dusit Poll said they wanted him to act without any political motivation or vested interest.

Oh I see, it's marketing for Abhisits thing from yesterday!

Some 32 per cent said he should be given a chance to find a solution, 10 per cent said what he was doing was part of a political game, while 8.9 per cent said if all sides cooperated, Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions. Some 4.6 per cent said they found Abhisit's attempt an interesting move worth attention as he has opponents and supporters

Ahh right, yeh, it's Abhisit marketing PR dressed up as a fake poll. You can see it in this sentence, these clauses are not mutually exclusive, the message is right there in the sentence:

"give him a chance" "Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions if all sides cooperated", "Abhisits attempt is an interesting move, worth attention"

This is the message they're trying to convey via this fake poll.

But if you imagine the polling form question, it makes no sense:

Check One:

[ ] Abhisit should be given a chance to find a solution

[ ] Abhisit is part of a political game

[ ] If all sides cooperated, Abhisit would find effective and clear solutions

[ ] Abhisits attempt is an interesting move worth attention as he has opponents and supporters.

[ ] Don't know

Wow this is a phd in politics!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Your post G should be in this box, still looking for it.

[tingtongteesood]

Can a referundum option be added to the election ? Check this box if you want none of the above and would like to see reforms happen first ? That would be a very interesting result....I wonder if it is legally possible....

[northernjohn]

A Thai poll on these issues is preposterous. Thai seem to have gotten the meaning of "reform" twisted around to be restricted to election reform and not Thai reform in general. Thais need reform of law and order in order to provide penalty and prosecution for corruption and illegal exchange of money. Thais need to reform the police, rules, laws, and punishments. Thais need to reform their system of holding political office, transactions in commercial and government contracts as well as complete civilian control of military.

Based on this poll and survey and Thai responses, it appears that the meaning of "reform" in Thailand is confused and disjointed. It's no wonder that Thailand is dysfunctional. Reform started out to mean corruption in government. Thais need to start with a reform package that defines that law and order is meant not to be broken with impunity and that punishment would be meted out.

Sitting governments should not be allowed to fund programs designed to garner votes ahead of elections. Maybe if they started with candidates having a true "reform" platform and campaigning that platform, everyone would know who is gaming the Thai population and the system for personal gain and power. Let's talk about reform for the benefit of Thais, their welfare, education, economy, and growth not who gets to run and who gets to vote.

I agree with what you say about all the needs for reform. But to have an election I believe that is one reform that should be made before the election. As it is now with out that an election would just be a waste of money. There are so many Thais who do not understand democracy they think it is just vote and you are done with it makes no difference to them who wins. Unfortunately there are quite a few Thai Visa posters who think that is all there is to democracy and given a chance will egg the poor Thai on with there misinformation and in some cases I believe it is out and out lies. The government is not the only corrupt people here. There are businessmen here who would have to leave Thailand if they got rids of corruption and they will lie cheat and steal to keep it here.

Basically as I see it the law is good. But what needs changing is the penalties. Not just a slap on the hand. If you except 500 baht for your vote you should be fined 2,500 baht.

The one offering the bribe directly or through an inter-mediator should be given a minimum of 2 years in Jail before they are eligible for release. these measures should be done right away one week no longer.

I believe the day of the red shirt terror is nearing the end. The age of the grass roots people is coming into being. Candidates will be expected to live up to their promises and one of them should be reform using information from all the different sections in Thailand. That includes the deep south. Also the many different sectors such as academic and business ,labor and what not. This should all be transparent.

[northernjohn]

A Thai poll on these issues is preposterous. Thai seem to have gotten the meaning of "reform" twisted around to be restricted to election reform and not Thai reform in general. Thais need reform of law and order in order to provide penalty and prosecution for corruption and illegal exchange of money. Thais need to reform the police, rules, laws, and punishments. Thais need to reform their system of holding political office, transactions in commercial and government contracts as well as complete civilian control of military.

Based on this poll and survey and Thai responses, it appears that the meaning of "reform" in Thailand is confused and disjointed. It's no wonder that Thailand is dysfunctional. Reform started out to mean corruption in government. Thais need to start with a reform package that defines that law and order is meant not to be broken with impunity and that punishment would be meted out.

Sitting governments should not be allowed to fund programs designed to garner votes ahead of elections. Maybe if they started with candidates having a true "reform" platform and campaigning that platform, everyone would know who is gaming the Thai population and the system for personal gain and power. Let's talk about reform for the benefit of Thais, their welfare, education, economy, and growth not who gets to run and who gets to vote.

Being selfish, their stupidity and lack of sense makes my dollar stronger. So their political upheavals works well for me.

In all fairness though I would love to see this a better country.

If you are talking about the Canadian or the American dollar you are wrong. The American dollar has gained strength on it's own in many countries and the Canadian dollar is down in the last 6 months.

I don't follow the rest but I believe the British pound is up and I don't know about any others.

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Asked what the country should do first - hold an election or implement reform - 49.6 per cent said reform, 38 per cent wanted an election

Hang on that majority does not suit the PTP agenda. Time to make up excuses, demonize the poll, call it a fake poll, say the numbers are fake and call NIDA biased. In other words ignore that majority until a majority that suits the PTP agenda forms. If not then under no circumstances accept the next election results if that majority does not suit your agenda either.

​Fake poll. Even the conspiracy club of america would have a hard time swallowing that one.

Monks don't suit agenda - Fake

Police don't suit agenda - Fake

Army don't suit agenda - Real

EC don't suit agenda - Biased

NACC don't suit agenda - Biased

Farmers don't suit agenda - Fake

Now my new favorite…..Polls don't suit agenda - Fake..

It is tragically beautiful how some peoples minds think.

You don't know what the reform referenced in the poll is do you?

Perhaps some of the reforms people want to see are an elimination of the politicization of the judiciary? Or maybe they want to see a reform that prevents the EC and the NACC from meddling in politics? Or maybe they want to see a reform such that the military is accountable to the civilian government?

Don't you think you are giving the average Thai voter more credit than they deserve? Those are issues that no government has ever made an endeavor to educate the people about.

"politicization of the judiciary"

Get real. there is only a handful of them who knows what that means and most of them are in the system.