Kawasaki z800 non ABS thoughts

[ATF]

As far as the rider modes go, it looks like a third one has been found for my bike (basically a redundant setting that Kawasaki put in in case they need it later) which means I may be able to load a third map, which I'm pretty happy about as there are other experimental maps I'd like to try without dumping the two maps that I already know work well- if I had a Z1000 (or any other sportbike) I'd want to be able to switch maps on-the-fly without having to pull my seat and remove my toolbox to hook my laptop to the ECU.

Woolich Racing has ECU tuning software for the Z1000 (as well as several other bikes), and tuners are moving way beyond the PC.

Normally there are three rider modes, urban or wet, highway and sport. The only reason I would have to switch maps would be on a vehicle inspection which can be done on a piggy back unit by returning all values to zero. Otherwise I want max performance all the time. The piggy back units can switch on the fly between two maps if the Autotune is not installed.

I'll check out Woolich Racing.

[RubberSideDown]

I can map each gear separately, and I like the idea of not having to use yet another piggy-back module. The PC/Bazazz does nothing to STP settings, which can transform your midrange.

These are my actual first-gear stock high-power settings (before modification)- no PC or Bazazz unit will give this information or let you alter it, and and recalibration has been shown to add close to 20hp in the midrange without any other mods (power can also be added to the Z1000 in the same way, though probably not 20hp). I now have them mapped to open fully at WOT from 3200rpm, and the difference from stock is immediately apparent, but mileage drops dramatically.

No matter how good your tuner may be, if he doesn't have the tools, he can't make the changes.

It's a huge advantage, IMHO, to be able to see the settings you're making changes to, rather than working on fueling or ignition changes blindly.

Edited May 8, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[RubberSideDown]

As far as the rider modes go, it looks like a third one has been found for my bike (basically a redundant setting that Kawasaki put in in case they need it later) which means I may be able to load a third map, which I'm pretty happy about as there are other experimental maps I'd like to try without dumping the two maps that I already know work well- if I had a Z1000 (or any other sportbike) I'd want to be able to switch maps on-the-fly without having to pull my seat and remove my toolbox to hook my laptop to the ECU.

Woolich Racing has ECU tuning software for the Z1000 (as well as several other bikes), and tuners are moving way beyond the PC.

Normally there are three rider modes, urban or wet, highway and sport. The only reason I would have to switch maps would be on a vehicle inspection which can be done on a piggy back unit by returning all values to zero. Otherwise I want max performance all the time. The piggy back units can switch on the fly between two maps if the Autotune is not installed.

I'll check out Woolich Racing.

There are three settings (whatever you want to call them- my bike comes with only two)- if you're cruising on the highway, you don't need to drop your mileage by 25% unnecessarily by staying in a high-power mode- there are also maps that give better midrange, others that give more peak hp, etc- new maps are developed and shared all the time- some are crap, others work great- I like being able to experiment easily.

My bike (and possibly the Z1000) also comes with a 'safety mode' installed by Kawasaki which pulls fuel if the throttle is whacked open in the lower gears- I've now eliminated it (by overwriting it), and the PC can't access it- I've also removed my top-speed limiter, I can switch modes on-the-fly instead of stopping first, the ECU remembers the last settings instead of switching to the default settings at start-up, etc.

As I said, there is more you can do with ECU tuning- it can do everything a PC or Bazazz can do plus a lot more, all with giving you more actual info and eliminating the need for extra piggyback devices. I've been using a PC since 2000 in one bike or another and I've had success with it, but ECU tuning is a whole new world- now I can see into the bike's 'brain'.

You can see how Kawi tries to play 'nanny'- this is the stock safety mode:

Edited May 8, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[Wong!]

Different Strokes I guess but seeing a Non-ABS is a plus for me.

Not interested in the 800 but wish all bikes were offered with OR without ABS

I suppose seatbelts in cars should be options too?

[RubberSideDown]

^

From 2016 (at least in the EU) ABS will be mandatory on all bikes from 125cc up and will no longer be offered as an option. That means the rest of the world will most likely go the same route as it's unlikely it will remain cost-effective for manufacturers to make two versions of their bikes.

Edited May 8, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

I can map each gear separately, and I like the idea of not having to use yet another piggy-back module. The PC/Bazazz does nothing to STP settings, which can transform your midrange.

These are my actual first-gear stock high-power settings (before modification)- no PC or Bazazz unit will give this information or let you alter it, and and recalibration has been shown to add close to 20hp in the midrange without any other mods (power can also be added to the Z1000 in the same way, though probably not 20hp). I now have them mapped to open fully at WOT from 3200rpm, and the difference from stock is immediately apparent, but mileage drops dramatically.

image.jpg

No matter how good your tuner may be, if he doesn't have the tools, he can't make the changes.

It's a huge advantage, IMHO, to be able to see the settings you're making changes to, rather than working on fueling or ignition changes blindly.

Sorry but for some reason I can't see your map. I am totally with you on the ECU route. Having everything programmed into the ECU is the best way to go but it is very difficult to get all the advantages of a piggy back unit and ECU in one package, otherwise you would have already ditched your PCV. Regarding the STP's aren't you supposed to remove them? I believe they are the same as the butterfly valves Ducati puts in it's exhausts. Also the fuel breather into the airbox did you remove that too?

[RubberSideDown]

^

No- removing them can cause issues, especially with low-end surging (and mileage goes down). For my bike at least, Brock Davidson did tests with the flies in and out, and got better results with them in. Also, if you're concerned with a warranty, removing the flies voids it for your engine. They are throttle plates, and have nothing to do with the exhaust- they control fueling.

These are the STPs on a Z1000- they can't be removed, but the 'flappers' can be taken off so they're wide open all the time- it's not always advantageous to do that, though, and a progressive opening sequence give better response (though it's obviously the cheaper way to go, but a surprising number of people have screwed up the removal):

The reason I haven't ditched my PC is because I had it installed before the ECU tuning software was available for my bike, and (as mentioned) there's not a tuner I trust enough to do set it up in LOS. If I were in the States, it would have been gone last year- I make concessions for LOS.

As far as the PAIR valve goes, it's blocked.

What can be done with the PC/Bazazz that can't be done with ECU tuning?

Edited May 8, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

^

No- removing them can cause issues, especially with low-end surging (and mileage goes down). For my bike at least, Brock Davidson did tests with the flies in and out, and got better results with them in. Also, if you're concerned with a warranty, removing the flies voids it for your engine. These are throttle plates, and have nothing to do with the exhaust- they control fueling.

These are the STPs on a Z1000:

The reason I haven't ditched my PC is because I had it installed before the ECU tuning software was available for my bike, and (as mentioned) there's not a tuner I trust enough to do set it up in LOS. If I were in the States, it would have been gone last year- I make concessions for LOS.

As far as the PAIR valve goes, it's blocked.

What can be done with the PC/Bazazz that can't be done with ECU tuning?

So which ECU tuner are you using Woolrich Racing? Do you tune using wideband O2 sensors on a dyno or just download maps. No tune yet for the Z1000 2014 from Woolrich, PC or Bazzaz.

[RubberSideDown]

I'm using Brock's map for my PC, and my ECU was set up by a Canadian tuner who works only with the 14R- my values are based on a couple dozen other 14Rs, with some slight changes for humidity and elevation- no doubt it would be better if he could work on it personally, but probably not by much- the fueling is perfect (maybe a tad rich, which is fine). I don't have an O2 sensor, though I might be installing one as I'm thinking about adding the new (for my bike) Woolich Log Box Pro, which of course requires an O2 sensor.

I'm going for dyno runs over the summer, where I'll run both the stock and modded maps- I'm hoping for ~205rwhp (another 14R owner I know just pulled 208rwhp, but I think the dyno was on the happy side;)).

You should email Justin at Woolich Racing- he'll let you know when the new set-up is available for the 2014.

[ATF]

I'm using Brock's map for my PC, and my ECU was set up by a Canadian tuner who works only with the 14R- my values are based on a couple dozen other 14Rs, with some slight changes for humidity and elevation- no doubt it would be better if he could work on it personally, but probably not by much- the fueling is perfect (maybe a tad rich, which is fine). I don't have an O2 sensor, though I might be installing one as I'm thinking about adding the new (for my bike) Woolich Log Box Pro, which of course requires an O2 sensor.

I'm going for dyno runs over the summer, where I'll run both the stock and modded maps- I'm hoping for ~205rwhp (another 14R owner I know just pulled 208rwhp, but I think the dyno was on the happy side;)).

You should email Justin at Woolich Racing- he'll let you know when the new set-up is available for the 2014.

I read up on the Log Box. Sounds like an Autotune. I would suggest you make a map on a loaded dyno then you can see in real time what is happening and it's much easier to smooth out curves and get your AFR spot on. Problem I find with Autotune is it keeps changing all the time and never comes to rest at the perfect AFR. I just leave mine running at +/- 5% and it adjusts on the fly. I don't save the trims anymore, but I think I'll take it down to 3%. Thanks for the info.

[RubberSideDown]

Here are those images (which hopefully you can see now)- these are only the STP settings (for full power and safety mode), but I also have them for fuel, ignition, etc (for all gears and neutral)- I think it's a huge advantage over the PC in that you can see the actual values rather than making blind changes:

I'd show you other stuff, but these are the only images I have saved, and the program is on my laptop (I'm on the iPad at the moment).. There's a cool 3D setting which let's you see the valuation curve across the rev range among other things- Woolich really did a good job, and updates are constantly bring released- note they don't supply actual maps (though there's a 'map sharing' section where users can upload their creations and others can review them) but only provide the tools for you to do it.

[ATF]

RSD that's cool I'll certainly look further into what they are doing and probably get a system. Big problem with the PCV is it's old tech and not fully adapted to CANBUS systems so you have to find work arounds. The Bazzaz is superior and the customer service is excellent PC customer service is useless. Thanks again.

[mania]

Different Strokes I guess but seeing a Non-ABS is a plus for me.

Not interested in the 800 but wish all bikes were offered with OR without ABS

I suppose seatbelts in cars should be options too?

Hopefully having an opinion/preference still allowed here

[mania]

Different Strokes I guess but seeing a Non-ABS is a plus for me.

Not interested in the 800 but wish all bikes were offered with OR without ABS

ABS can usually be switched off. Having ABS will always get you a better resale value.

True ATF on some of the better bikes it is switchable. Also on some better bikes BMW for example I imagine their abs systems feel may be quite good.

But for me personally I do not like (or need)the added complexity longer lines inability to allow certain braking/cornering etc.

But just my personal pref & I do see the value of abs for many riders.

As such as you said resale will likely be better with.

Edited May 9, 2014 by mania

[RubberSideDown]

KTM has their ABS sorted- on their 690 Enduro R (a bike I find very appealing) it can be switched off for only the back tire for off-road applications (or switched if entirely if desired).

[mania]

KTM has their ABS sorted- on their 690 Enduro R (a bike I find very appealing) it can be switched off for only the back tire for off-road applications (or switched if entirely if desired).

Yes KTM uses high quality Bosch units I believe