What are your top priority upgrades after buying a new bike?

[bramds]

Your guessing sucks on pretty much all points - actually all points, but I see no reason to start a pissing contest :-)

Oh, and thanks for the pix, nice ride. Which upgrades have you given it - besides the exhaust of course?

Yep, major sucking. First post of yours that I could find was from 5 Nov 12 (of course I had been in Thailand for 2 years before posting on TV). So my assumption that you haven't been in Thailand that long isn't that far off. There there was the lack of knowledge about a widely used farm vehicle that anyone that has been out and about (rather than those preoccupied with the bar scene) has seen...even if they didn't know the name. Your oh so cute attempt at deflection of not knowing it doesn't negate my apparently correct assumption that you live in the city (reading though your old posts confirms that). After all the time one spend in bars renting a femme du soir it is unsurprising that hearing loss would affect the perception of every day noises...but does be the question as to why a 'loud' motorcycle would cause concern.

I will say that the speculation as to your means was a bit uncalled for; but considering the troll needs to be trolled perhaps not totally out of line.

There is nothing wrong with living in the city. And yes, I have been out and about.

Apart from that, loud pipes save lives.

And if you can't stand noise, you are in the wrong city, because there is noise everywhere, from a lot more sources than motorbikes.

[monkeycountry]

Your guessing sucks on pretty much all points - actually all points, but I see no reason to start a pissing contest :-)

Oh, and thanks for the pix, nice ride. Which upgrades have you given it - besides the exhaust of course?

Yep, major sucking. First post of yours that I could find was from 5 Nov 12 (of course I had been in Thailand for 2 years before posting on TV). So my assumption that you haven't been in Thailand that long isn't that far off. There there was the lack of knowledge about a widely used farm vehicle that anyone that has been out and about (rather than those preoccupied with the bar scene) has seen...even if they didn't know the name. Your oh so cute attempt at deflection of not knowing it doesn't negate my apparently correct assumption that you live in the city (reading though your old posts confirms that). After all the time one spend in bars renting a femme du soir it is unsurprising that hearing loss would affect the perception of every day noises...but does be the question as to why a 'loud' motorcycle would cause concern.

I will say that the speculation as to your means was a bit uncalled for; but considering the troll needs to be trolled perhaps not totally out of line.

There is nothing wrong with living in the city. And yes, I have been out and about.

Apart from that, loud pipes save lives.

And if you can't stand noise, you are in the wrong city, because there is noise everywhere, from a lot more sources than motorbikes.

I just wonder why they are illegal in several western countries, if they are such life savers?

[Woodsie888]

New grips and levers is all I need.

Same for me. Nothing else needs changing on my bike for me.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

Idiots that spend money on changing shocks, brake upgrades etc on twist and go scooters used on public roads need their heads seeing to. Honda, Yamaha and the rest of the top motorbike names spend millions of dollars on research and development, to make these scooters handle as good as they need to be for what they are being used for. If someone is going to use their scooter for professional racing on a track then yes the upgrades are essential.

Yep...because corporations, who have to stay in the red and please shareholders are not going to do things the cheapest way they can or anything. I mean why eat at a Michelin star restaurant when one can chow down at McDonalds that is good enough for what it's intended for?

Of course there are some things I question. Rim tape...what good is that? I read that reflective rim tape makes you more visible at night and nearly fell out. One of two things happens if another vehicle, which can only see the rim tape from a 90 degree angle, notices it. Either they've already seen the headlight or the poor motorcyclist is about to be t-boned. But on the other hand that money spent stimulates the economy and the owner likes it so oh well.

Perhaps I'm wrong, because I always thought Shareholders like their Corporations to be in the black.

[dave_boo]

New grips and levers is all I need.

Same for me. Nothing else needs changing on my bike for me.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

Idiots that spend money on changing shocks, brake upgrades etc on twist and go scooters used on public roads need their heads seeing to. Honda, Yamaha and the rest of the top motorbike names spend millions of dollars on research and development, to make these scooters handle as good as they need to be for what they are being used for. If someone is going to use their scooter for professional racing on a track then yes the upgrades are essential.

Yep...because corporations, who have to stay in the red and please shareholders are not going to do things the cheapest way they can or anything. I mean why eat at a Michelin star restaurant when one can chow down at McDonalds that is good enough for what it's intended for?

Of course there are some things I question. Rim tape...what good is that? I read that reflective rim tape makes you more visible at night and nearly fell out. One of two things happens if another vehicle, which can only see the rim tape from a 90 degree angle, notices it. Either they've already seen the headlight or the poor motorcyclist is about to be t-boned. But on the other hand that money spent stimulates the economy and the owner likes it so oh well.

Perhaps I'm wrong, because I always thought Shareholders like their Corporations to be in the black.

Don't I feel like a special idiot now...we'll blame the late hour of my response mmmh ok?

[bramds]

Your guessing sucks on pretty much all points - actually all points, but I see no reason to start a pissing contest :-)

Oh, and thanks for the pix, nice ride. Which upgrades have you given it - besides the exhaust of course?

Yep, major sucking. First post of yours that I could find was from 5 Nov 12 (of course I had been in Thailand for 2 years before posting on TV). So my assumption that you haven't been in Thailand that long isn't that far off. There there was the lack of knowledge about a widely used farm vehicle that anyone that has been out and about (rather than those preoccupied with the bar scene) has seen...even if they didn't know the name. Your oh so cute attempt at deflection of not knowing it doesn't negate my apparently correct assumption that you live in the city (reading though your old posts confirms that). After all the time one spend in bars renting a femme du soir it is unsurprising that hearing loss would affect the perception of every day noises...but does be the question as to why a 'loud' motorcycle would cause concern.

I will say that the speculation as to your means was a bit uncalled for; but considering the troll needs to be trolled perhaps not totally out of line.

There is nothing wrong with living in the city. And yes, I have been out and about.

Apart from that, loud pipes save lives.

And if you can't stand noise, you are in the wrong city, because there is noise everywhere, from a lot more sources than motorbikes.

I just wonder why they are illegal in several western countries, if they are such life savers?

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

[Overandout]

Am I the only person whose first mod to a "new" bike is usually to get it to run?

Once it runs I usually then cut of the exhaust muffler, not because it sounds better, but because it makes for longer bitch fights in biking forums.

[ATF]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

[monkeycountry]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

Edited May 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[Gweiloman]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

Actually, earplugs are more effective in drowning out wind noise as opposed to exhaust noise (it helps a bit of course). What helps more is that the more you rev the exhaust, the faster you go and you hear less of the noise as you leave it behind for others to enjoy

[ll2]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

Man if it is coming to noise levels, just discharge your feeling to boats, modified trucks, cars, construction sites, planes, karaoke bars, morning birds, toads and cicadas before bikes.

They are as loud as bikes with loud pipes and they are everywhere.

Besides, you will never understand why bikers use louder pipes as you are not a biker, you are just a wannabe so use your mind on things you have experience and understanding my friend.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[papa al]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

Man if it is coming to noise levels, just discharge your feeling to boats, modified trucks, cars, construction sites, planes, karaoke bars, morning birds, toads and cicadas before bikes.

They are as loud as bikes with loud pipes and they are everywhere.

Besides, you will never understand why bikers use louder pipes as you are not a biker, you are just a wannabe so use your mind on things you have experience and understanding my friend.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Damn toads!

[monkeycountry]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

Man if it is coming to noise levels, just discharge your feeling to boats, modified trucks, cars, construction sites, planes, karaoke bars, morning birds, toads and cicadas before bikes.

They are as loud as bikes with loud pipes and they are everywhere.

Besides, you will never understand why bikers use louder pipes as you are not a biker, you are just a wannabe so use your mind on things you have experience and understanding my friend.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

2 wrongs don't make a right. Further, some noise is unavoidable/natural (construction sites/planes/nature etc.), while other noise such as some boats/cars is because it is the cheapest solution. I think bikers are more or less the only people who actually pay extra for additional noise which has no benefit whatsoever,

besides showing off.

You are completely correct, only bikers (and disco owners), which I am not, understand why it is ok to bother others with meaningless noise.

I am not sure what a wannabe biker is? If I wanted to be a biker, would simply buying a bike not make me one? Or are there other requirements? :-)

Edited May 9, 2014 by monkeycountry

[wantan]

^

"Your are a wannabe biker" is the worst name-calling you can get in this forum. Not more not less. Welcome back to the kindergarten

[ATF]

2 wrongs don't make a right. Further, some noise is unavoidable/natural (construction sites/planes/nature etc.) where as loud exhaust pipes have no benefit whatsoever, besides showing off.

You are completely correct, only bikers (and disco owners), which I am not, understand why it is ok to bother others with meaningless noise.

I am not sure what a wannabe biker is? If I wanted to be a biker, would simply buying a bike not make me a one? Or are there other requirements? :-)

The principle of the internal combustion engine relies on two things, fuel and air. If you want increased power you need more fuel but you cannot add more fuel without adding more air to achieve a correct combustion ratio. Therefore the quicker you can get the products of combustion (exhaust gases) out of the engine the quicker you can add more fuel and air. Two by-products of this are heat and noise. Think of the noise like wind, the stronger wind blows the noisier it is. Some bikers tune their exhausts to make noise without increasing horsepower. These are mostly the Thai boy racer crowd or Harley Gays Guys.

You have probably never driven a mid-engined sports car like a Ferrari, you can't hear yourself talk inside. If you want to be a biker you need to decide what type of riding you like but that's a huge subject. The vid below explains why most of us guys ride bikes.

[wantan]

^

Nice try

Some bikers tune their exhausts to make noise without increasing horsepower. These are mostly the Thai boy racer crowd or Harley Gays Guys.

I have seen countless posts here discussing (slip on) exhausts with comments like "i just want a better/louder sound, increasing power isn't important". And these weren't thai boy racers or harley riders. Mostly they were sports bike riders. Seems they are not that different to Harley guys...

Of course most fans of loud exhausts claim that their bikes are more powerful and more secure with a loud exhausts, but i have rarly seen any evidence to proof this (before and after dyno runs). Its a psycological thing i guess, who wants to spend money for something that decreases the power on his bike? So they come up with statements like "the mid range is clearly improved", "low end torque is better now" and so on. Nothing wrong with that as long as people have some fun, just an observation i made.

Edited May 9, 2014 by wantan

[bramds]

Because the people in power seem to be the same sensitive people as you.

I drive my car, I don't want to hear a loud motorbike when I listen to my very silent engine.

I find noise of my exhaust deafening too after I've been riding a few hours I can't hear properly sometimes until the next day. That's why I use earplugs.

I have actually always wondered if the noise did not bother the driver, who is afterall the one most exposed to the noise. I guess you just answered that, thanks :-)

I guess if everyone just uses earplugs, then there would be no problem. No wait ...

If you spend the money for a decent helmet, the "noise" isn't much of an issue. Can hardly hear mine, and that is without earplugs.

[ATF]

^

Nice try

Some bikers tune their exhausts to make noise without increasing horsepower. These are mostly the Thai boy racer crowd or Harley Gays Guys.

I have seen countless posts here discussing (slip on) exhausts with comments like "i just want a better/louder sound, increasing power isn't important". And these weren't thai boy racers or harley riders. Mostly they were sports bike riders. Seems they are not that different to Harley guys...

Of course most fans of loud exhausts claim that their bikes are more powerful and more secure with a loud exhausts, but i have rarly seen any evidence to proof this (before and after dyno runs). Its a psycological thing i guess, who wants to spend money for something that decreases the power on his bike? So they come up with statements like "the mid range is clearly improved", "low end torque is better now" and so on. Nothing wrong with that as long as people have some fun, just an observation i made.

Just putting slip ons on your bike are going to make more noise than BHP. You need a full exhaust hi-flo air filter and ECU remap to increase fuel delivery and adjust ignition timing due to the increased air flow. This will cost at least 100,000 Baht to be done properly. A quality racing exhaust will also drop around 10kgs off the weight of the bike. Removing baffles from quality exhausts have been proven to offer very little if any increased BHP. Reducing the weight of the bike has a dramatic effect on speed especially reducing the weight of the wheels. This is why you see Thai boy racers with those razor thin wheels. Only problem is thin wheels don't like corners.

[ATF]

If you spend the money for a decent helmet, the "noise" isn't much of an issue. Can hardly hear mine, and that is without earplugs.

Either you exhaust isn't loud enough or you're not going fast enough.

[papa al]

Post 77: "Reducing the weight of the bike has a dramatic effect on speed especially reducing the weight of the wheels."

Reducing mass increases acceleration and braking performance more than top speed.

F=ma.

Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits speed.

[dave_boo]

Post 77: "Reducing the weight of the bike has a dramatic effect on speed especially reducing the weight of the wheels."

Reducing mass increases acceleration and braking performance more than top speed.

F=ma.

Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits speed.

If one is to be pedantic, at least ensure the proper terms that are being corrected are correctly utilised.

Speed is a nebulous inexact term when expressing an object that has a direction. Had you stated that "Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits maximal velocity" your educational opportunity would not have been wasted. Even your "F=ma" mentions acceleration which is the rate that velocity changes over time. After all, speed is scalar quantity and velocity is vector quantity. As you are talking about the instant in time when there is equilibrium between the forces propelling the motorcycle forward (rate it changes its position) and those resisting that motion (the coefficient of drag being the largest) and not discussing the rate it covers a distance (because you are looking for a vector...forward) than velocity is the correct term. For instance, the speed of a piston is very high; it's velocity measured over a full cycle is 0 as the downward motion negates all change of distance from the upward motion.

I'm not even a good biker (much better with numbers), but even I know that reducing unsprung weight does a lot for motorbikes. Not only the acceleration and deceleration you alluded to; but also overcoming centripetal force which allows faster countersteering...which allows one to charge into a corner and get the bike leaned over (and back vertical) quicker than other bikes thus allowing power to be put down for longer periods of time. In this example, entering and exiting a hairpin turn can be done with a dramatic effect on speed (increasing it).

[neverdie]

Tyres and brakes were the first mods on my scooter, what followed amounted to nothing more than silliness really, given that I've spent a multiple of what the bloody thing was worth changing it, for little gain really....BUT, it was fun, some of it funny.

If I were to buy another big bike in LOS, my mods would probably relate to comfort, tyres and an exhaust mod, because no matter how old I get, I like nice sounds from my bikes and cars.

[ATF]

If one is to be pedantic, at least ensure the proper terms that are being corrected are correctly utilised.

Dave I'd appreciate if you could give me a simple equation for the calculation of acceleration because BHP is an imperial unit and I am not sure of it's exact correlation with KW and time. Would this be correct? Acceleration (m/s) = Mass (kg) / Force (kw)

[papa al]

Post 77: "Reducing the weight of the bike has a dramatic effect on speed especially reducing the weight of the wheels."

Reducing mass increases acceleration and braking performance more than top speed.

F=ma.

Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits speed.

If one is to be pedantic, at least ensure the proper terms that are being corrected are correctly utilised.

Speed is a nebulous inexact term when expressing an object that has a direction. Had you stated that "Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits maximal velocity" your educational opportunity would not have been wasted. Even your "F=ma" mentions acceleration which is the rate that velocity changes over time. After all, speed is scalar quantity and velocity is vector quantity. As you are talking about the instant in time when there is equilibrium between the forces propelling the motorcycle forward (rate it changes its position) and those resisting that motion (the coefficient of drag being the largest) and not discussing the rate it covers a distance (because you are looking for a vector...forward) than velocity is the correct term. For instance, the speed of a piston is very high; it's velocity measured over a full cycle is 0 as the downward motion negates all change of distance from the upward motion.

I'm not even a good biker (much better with numbers), but even I know that reducing unsprung weight does a lot for motorbikes. Not only the acceleration and deceleration you alluded to; but also overcoming centripetal force which allows faster countersteering...which allows one to charge into a corner and get the bike leaned over (and back vertical) quicker than other bikes thus allowing power to be put down for longer periods of time. In this example, entering and exiting a hairpin turn can be done with a dramatic effect on speed (increasing it).

Sorry if my comment was simultaneously overly simplified yet too pendactic for your taste.

Among motor enthusiasts' fast'&'speed' is commonly associated with top speed and 'quickness' with acceleration.

In-as-much-as speed is the absolute value of velocity, and aerodynamic drag limits velocity (vector), as you point out, then the associated scalar, (speed, not really so nebulous) must also be limited, as the last sentence in my post indicated.

I am unclear regarding the "overcoming centripetal force' comment though.

Centripital force, manifest by the tire/track friction is the only thing allowing the bike to actually turn in a curve rather than to continue in a a straight line as it would tend to do otherwise. Hence centripetal force is desirable, not something to be overcome. Perhaps you are confusing the term 'centripetal' with the imaginary 'centrifugal' force, as many do.

Edited May 10, 2014 by papa al

[monkeycountry]

2 wrongs don't make a right. Further, some noise is unavoidable/natural (construction sites/planes/nature etc.) where as loud exhaust pipes have no benefit whatsoever, besides showing off.

You are completely correct, only bikers (and disco owners), which I am not, understand why it is ok to bother others with meaningless noise.

I am not sure what a wannabe biker is? If I wanted to be a biker, would simply buying a bike not make me a one? Or are there other requirements? :-)

The principle of the internal combustion engine relies on two things, fuel and air. If you want increased power you need more fuel but you cannot add more fuel without adding more air to achieve a correct combustion ratio. Therefore the quicker you can get the products of combustion (exhaust gases) out of the engine the quicker you can add more fuel and air. Two by-products of this are heat and noise. Think of the noise like wind, the stronger wind blows the noisier it is. Some bikers tune their exhausts to make noise without increasing horsepower. These are mostly the Thai boy racer crowd or Harley Gays Guys.

You have probably never driven a mid-engined sports car like a Ferrari, you can't hear yourself talk inside. If you want to be a biker you need to decide what type of riding you like but that's a huge subject. The vid below explains why most of us guys ride bikes.

I watched half the video, and admit it looks fun. So tell me, how often does the traffic and road conditions in Thailand allow you guys to drive with your knees touching the ground? (not including accidents)

Each time I consider a sportscar I remember what happened to the last one I saw. It was a Lamborghini, and it was being lifted off a speedbump at the local Tesco :-)

[Wong!]

2 wrongs don't make a right. Further, some noise is unavoidable/natural (construction sites/planes/nature etc.) where as loud exhaust pipes have no benefit whatsoever, besides showing off.

You are completely correct, only bikers (and disco owners), which I am not, understand why it is ok to bother others with meaningless noise.

I am not sure what a wannabe biker is? If I wanted to be a biker, would simply buying a bike not make me a one? Or are there other requirements? :-)

The principle of the internal combustion engine relies on two things, fuel and air. If you want increased power you need more fuel but you cannot add more fuel without adding more air to achieve a correct combustion ratio. Therefore the quicker you can get the products of combustion (exhaust gases) out of the engine the quicker you can add more fuel and air. Two by-products of this are heat and noise. Think of the noise like wind, the stronger wind blows the noisier it is. Some bikers tune their exhausts to make noise without increasing horsepower. These are mostly the Thai boy racer crowd or Harley Gays Guys.

You have probably never driven a mid-engined sports car like a Ferrari, you can't hear yourself talk inside. If you want to be a biker you need to decide what type of riding you like but that's a huge subject. The vid below explains why most of us guys ride bikes.

If that's the case why do Hardley Ablesons make loads of noise but very little power?

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[dave_boo]

If one is to be pedantic, at least ensure the proper terms that are being corrected are correctly utilised.

Dave I'd appreciate if you could give me a simple equation for the calculation of acceleration because BHP is an imperial unit and I am not sure of it's exact correlation with KW and time. Would this be correct? Acceleration (m/s) = Mass (kg) / Force (kw)

1 kW = 0.745699872 hp

1 hp = 1.34102208884 kW

[Marcel1]

Hmm I am on a holiday so not much actve these days but, it all seems completely off topic by now while in the end it is very simple.

If you are a motor enthousiast you will always love a nice sound from anything motorized.

if you are not, then all excesive noise is a burden but than there is no need to complain to others about it.

Im on the beach now and these waves are drivng me crazy, might have a chat with mother nature soon...

[YipYipYa123]

I have not seen many people who say adding an exhaust decreased the power Especially as after market exhausts are normally much lighter than stock so the power to weight ratio should at least be better, also it's not just about louder ,its about the sound and tone of the engine that make many people change the pipe.....

Edited May 10, 2014 by YipYipYa123

[dave_boo]

Post 77: "Reducing the weight of the bike has a dramatic effect on speed especially reducing the weight of the wheels."

Reducing mass increases acceleration and braking performance more than top speed.

F=ma.

Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits speed.

If one is to be pedantic, at least ensure the proper terms that are being corrected are correctly utilised.

Speed is a nebulous inexact term when expressing an object that has a direction. Had you stated that "Aerodynamic drag (increases with the square of the velocity) limits maximal velocity" your educational opportunity would not have been wasted. Even your "F=ma" mentions acceleration which is the rate that velocity changes over time. After all, speed is scalar quantity and velocity is vector quantity. As you are talking about the instant in time when there is equilibrium between the forces propelling the motorcycle forward (rate it changes its position) and those resisting that motion (the coefficient of drag being the largest) and not discussing the rate it covers a distance (because you are looking for a vector...forward) than velocity is the correct term. For instance, the speed of a piston is very high; it's velocity measured over a full cycle is 0 as the downward motion negates all change of distance from the upward motion.

I'm not even a good biker (much better with numbers), but even I know that reducing unsprung weight does a lot for motorbikes. Not only the acceleration and deceleration you alluded to; but also overcoming centripetal force which allows faster countersteering...which allows one to charge into a corner and get the bike leaned over (and back vertical) quicker than other bikes thus allowing power to be put down for longer periods of time. In this example, entering and exiting a hairpin turn can be done with a dramatic effect on speed (increasing it).

Sorry if my comment was simultaneously overly simplified yet too pendactic for your taste.

Among motor enthusiasts' fast'&'speed' is commonly associated with top speed and 'quickness' with acceleration.

In-as-much-as speed is the absolute value of velocity, and aerodynamic drag limits velocity (vector), as you point out, then the associated scalar, (speed, not really so nebulous) must also be limited, as the last sentence in my post indicated.

I am unclear regarding the "overcoming centripetal force' comment though.

Centripital force, manifest by the tire/track friction is the only thing allowing the bike to actually turn in a curve rather than to continue in a a straight line as it would tend to do otherwise. Hence centripetal force is desirable, not something to be overcome. Perhaps you are confusing the term 'centripetal' with the imaginary 'centrifugal' force, as many do.

I appreciate for the vast majority of the plebes speed is a misused term. It is ironic that an oversimplification would still utilise it incorrectly however.

Speed is not the absolute value of velocity. It is a scalar measurement. Velocity is a vector measurement. I've been over this in my last post. As you are, correctly, pointing out the coefficient of friction which is a force in the opposite direction of the applied forward force is working against the engine's power, you can not use a scalar measurement.

I am sorry that you don't understand the dynamics of centripetal force attempting to maintain a straight line. The tyre's attempt to adhere to Newton's first law (an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by external forces) is what one must overcome to initiate the turn. Of course upon entering the correct angle the centripetal motion will than continue on the turn until acted upon by outside forces also...which one does upon 'standing' the bike up on exit of the corner.

[dave_boo]

I have not seen many people who say adding an exhaust decreased the power Especially as after market exhausts are normally much lighter than stock so the power to weight ratio should at least be better, also it's not just about louder ,its about the sound and tone of the engine that make many people change the pipe.....

Most people who add an exhaust don't dyno it before or after. Add in confirmation bias (another hobby of mine is audio...more expensive cables rarely make the difference that those who buy them think they hear) and the psycho-acoustical that a louder deeper sound causes and it's probable there's little to no gain and often a loss over some or all of the RPM range that others have talked about.

The loss comes from the basic design of the engine. An engine designed for a specific RPM range can be finely tuned for that range. Outside that range efficiency drops off. The airbox design, intake tract, fuel atomisation and delivery, valve arrangement, cam profile, timing range, spark duration, scavenging length of the exhaust, etc plays a major role in just where and how much power is being produced. Adjustable length intake tracts, multiple fuel injectors, VTEC, swirl chamber design, different piston crowns, exhaust pipe valves are all attempts to adjust the system to meet various RPM loads and demonstrate that an engine is not a simple design that has a one solution fits all.

On most modern bikes just changing the can will result in little to no change to the power produced itself. The design of the system in respect to the power production lies further up the chain. On the Ninja 250R thread I took the time to calculate exactly where in the headers the actual power making pulses are no longer relevant and I think it was around 16" (40 cm) from the exhaust port. That's still before the collector and well after the crosspipe installed by Kawasaki.