Thai universities miss 'young' top 100 list
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- No Thai university has made a list of the world's top 100 universities that are less than 50 years old.

Times Higher Education (THE) magazine, which has just released the list, said that young Thai universities compared less favourably to many other countries on two fronts: reputation and the number of times the academic papers they produced were cited.

"But overall, the signs are very positive for Thailand and we are seeing improvement," THE said in an email to The Nation.

The magazine's 100 Under 50 has been compiled so as to look to the future by examining the new breed of universities.
On the top of the list is South Korea's Pohang University of Science and Technology, followed by Switzerland's Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne and another South Korean institution, the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology.

Hong Kong University of Science and Technology stays fourth, while Singapore's Nanyang Technological University is fifth.

The youngest university on the list is Austria's Medical University of Vienna, which was established in its current form in 2004 and is ranked 36th.

THE said that Chiang Mai University and Prince of Songkla University were eligible to be on the list.

"They've met the strict criteria, which includes a minimum number of research papers published," it said.

The magazine said that the global academia environment was now highly competitive with increased investment in institutions globally, particularly in the Far East.

Chiang Mai University will not be considered for next year's list as it was founded in 1964.

The full list can be viewed here: www.thewur.com

-- The Nation 2014-05-05

So this has nothing to do with the hottest 100 university students in Thailand.

Among the reasons Thai universities are not on the Young 50 List and/or can't crack the top 400 of the overall list:

1. Few publications in English means nobody is going to cite them.

2. Few presentations at international conferences means few people are going to know them

3. Force people to retire at 60, when many in Europe and the US teach into their 70s and actually increase their research and publication rate--especially later in their career.

4. Relatively few PhDs (and reliance on online PhDs when they do get them) compared to PhD as a minimum requirement in the West for even the most basic consideration of a job.

5. No serious libraries = No serious research.

OTOH, Thai universities do like to build a lot of buildings. It's just that there is nothing in them. Potemkin Universities, you might call them.

No Thai university even appeared in the top 400 if you check the list. The Thai press writes this article as if Thai universities missed the cut at 100, but the truth is they missed the 400 cut as well. Maybe reform in Thailand starts witha little truth and facts without slanting the article so as to mislead the expectations of the Thai people.

I once worked at a rural university where English was a compulsory subject and all students were aware before being accepted.

Result ? Students didn't bother to attend classes and it made no difference to their graduation chances as the uni wanted to present a high pass rate which meant more students and all those lovely, lovely fees.

Just as a matter of interest , how many degree holders in Thailand could actually go out side Thailand's boarders and compete at the same level as say a degree holder from Melbourne uni, the picture I see is that there skills are lower and particularly the English, Thailand is now getting to the stage what Malaysia realized along time ago, that to be an academic you must know English very well, so they lecture in English, otherwise you find a whole country of unemployed degree holders, nobody, as we all know, gives a toss about speaking Thai outside of Thailand.

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

Many students have told me, and other teachers, that asking questions in class is the Kiss Of Death - you are challenging the teacher !

So this has nothing to do with the hottest 100 university students in Thailand.

I was dissapointed as well!

No surprises here. An education system embedded in the 'reproductive' mode of learning. I.E. Rote Learning. An academic culture of timid compliance, no critical analysis of academic research and certainly very little original research. The fact that English language competence is poor is almost a secondary problem. The primary problem is pedagogical. For anyone who has ever sat through an academic presentation by a Thai at a conference will know what I'm saying. Then we can start discussing the 'no fail' that exists at many institutions, the widespread acceptance of academic plagiarism and blatant cheating. The system is broken. Time to fix it.

No Thai university even appeared in the top 400 if you check the list. The Thai press writes this article as if Thai universities missed the cut at 100, but the truth is they missed the 400 cut as well. Maybe reform in Thailand starts witha little truth and facts without slanting the article so as to mislead the expectations of the Thai people.

Truth and slanting things to mislead Thai people. You must be joking for that to happen in this land where making yourself look good and righteous and not taking responsibility is the norm and their culture.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

if reference books etc were produced in Kar Tooon form Thai students would probably score highly as they would actually read them and learn by rote, by parrot form.

Aaawwk, Pieces of Eight, Pieces of Eight.

Well there goes the Education Hub.

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

I think you mean the who, what, when, where, how and why of it all. I agree.They aren't taught to think or question in any sort of objective or abstract way: they're taught to pass tests.

It always amazes me how a prestigious Thai university can offer a fifty-five minute English conversation class with 60 students enrolled and expect them to actually learn to speak English.

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

Many students have told me, and other teachers, that asking questions in class is the Kiss Of Death - you are challenging the teacher !

If my students aren't asking me questions; I give them the kiss of death. I remember a complaint about me some years back where a certain grammar based institution said that the students were getting confused during the lessons. I replied, "Good, they're beginning to think!"

I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

Many students have told me, and other teachers, that asking questions in class is the Kiss Of Death - you are challenging the teacher !

This starts from P1 in Thai schools. Much better to have your kid educated by a qualified foreigner, in english, even from this age. At least the kids can ask questions without the fear of being berated or smacked by the teacher. It jues goes to show how little the Thai teachers must understand of their subject if they fear being shown up by a 6 year old!

Something seriously wrong when you have one of the highest spending governments on education in the world, and have results like this ???

too many holidays for all.

BUT where has the money gone ???? again a government trend ???? follow the money, but any accounts ??? this government do not believe in keeping records.

Krikkit

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I had a chance to spend 3 hrs at one of the biggest Uni's in BKK.

Checked out Library and was hanging around a huge open hall where students were sitting for exams.

Library - mostly a depository of class sets locally published lecture notes. Not much in terms of books.

Around the exam hall the grounds were virtually littered with above notes. Not one book in sight. Scary!

I can imagine the width of the knowledge spectrum imposed on the poor kids by "Professors".

Any RND work requires ability to read books, articles evaluate them critically and generally know what's going on in your field.

Where these poor Thai kids will learn this? NO, NO, I'm not saying they're stupid...

In many (most?) classes, the students don't read anything. Instead, the professor walks in, opens up a powerpoint, and proceeds to explain "how" the students should understand. Conflicting ideas? Alternate methods of investigation? Asking "why?' Probably none of those things will happen. If they do, the students and university should get down on their knees and pray thanks for the person taking the time to care--instead of just coming in to cash a paycheck.

Many students have told me, and other teachers, that asking questions in class is the Kiss Of Death - you are challenging the teacher !

If my students aren't asking me questions; I give them the kiss of death. I remember a complaint about me some years back where a certain grammar based institution said that the students were getting confused during the lessons. I replied, "Good, they're beginning to think!"

I deliberately push for spoken contribution within 2 or 3 minutes of starting the first lesson of any course both bachelor and masters.

My students soon learn that the class doesn't proceed until someone makes a comment of asks a question. It's my experience that day one is a bit scary but most students quickly embrace the opportunity to comment / question.

I often say "I don't expect you to know a perfect answer but I do expect you to try - please share what your thinking", I never scold my students for wrong answers, I praise any comments and where needed I carefully explore and massage what was said till we get to something valuable.

Another trick I use is just before the end of a lesson is to say "I want 4 good questions or nobody goes home". I say it a bit of a joke but the students know that I'm serious, and they learn quickly that comments like "Professor I have to go quickly to my next class" etc etc., don't work.

It's not as bad as it looks. Of all 7,021 universities in the USA, only .11% (or 8 universities) made this list. This means 7,013 universities in the United States didn't make the list. Probably because the universities were over 50 years old...but still, don't read too much into the Times Higher Education report. Also interesting to note, in 2011, only 57% of first time students who start a 4 year undergraduate degree in the USA actually complete it. (Source) However, 57% is the percentage of complete the degree in 6 years and not the planned 4 years. It seems a bit risky to study in the USA.

Number of Universities in the USA (Click Here)

Number of Universities that made the list. (Click Here)

Graduation Rates in the USA (Click Here)

What is this all about again?

OTOH, Thai universities do like to build a lot of buildings. It's just that there is nothing in them. Potemkin Universities, you might call them.

Yeah, that seems to be true. All of the universities I have visited here have had massive campuses but not the bustling student life you would associate with them. At the one I work at now, I am often the only person teaching on an entire floor. Contrast that with where I went to school. I would say the buildings were at 70-90% capacity.

I know a Thai school which has a 'relationship' with a Thai Uni. After students had been ushered through the school, where they were sure to pass every exam (as long as they went to the 'extra lessons'), they were guaranteed a place at University, where I can only presume they all passed and left as clueless as they began.

Everyone passes. Everyone's a winner. Except in reality where they're all losers, as this list may suggest.

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Just as a matter of interest , how many degree holders in Thailand could actually go out side Thailand's boarders and compete at the same level as say a degree holder from Melbourne uni, the picture I see is that there skills are lower and particularly the English, Thailand is now getting to the stage what Malaysia realized along time ago, that to be an academic you must know English very well, so they lecture in English, otherwise you find a whole country of unemployed degree holders, nobody, as we all know, gives a toss about speaking Thai outside of Thailand.

I'm shore that all the Thai degree holders wood get on fine out side Thailand's boarders, even if there English was on a par with your's. It seams that even native English speaker's dont no how to speak english write these day's.

Perhaps there should be a list of the World's Top 100 Middle Aged Universities with long names situated in the Tropics?

Perhaps there should be a list of the World's Top 100 Middle Aged Universities with long names situated in the Tropics?

Thailand would finish behind Singapore and Malaysia in that category, too.

Among the reasons Thai universities are not on the Young 50 List and/or can't crack the top 400 of the overall list:

1. Few publications in English means nobody is going to cite them.

2. Few presentations at international conferences means few people are going to know them

3. Force people to retire at 60, when many in Europe and the US teach into their 70s and actually increase their research and publication rate--especially later in their career.

4. Relatively few PhDs (and reliance on online PhDs when they do get them) compared to PhD as a minimum requirement in the West for even the most basic consideration of a job.

5. No serious libraries = No serious research.

OTOH, Thai universities do like to build a lot of buildings. It's just that there is nothing in them. Potemkin Universities, you might call them.

Have you actually spent very much time in a Thai academic environment? I have at a major university, for over 20 years and will address your points.

1. All the graduate & PhD candidates produce publications in English, both National and International. I proof many of the manuscripts and after peer review comes back from the publishers, I help with the errors.

2. Many International presentations are done by our students. Recently one in Japan where one of our PhD candidates came in 1st place with his presentation even over several Japanese students.

3. There is mandatory retirement at 60 at government universities but if one has strong contributions they can continue work via annual contracts. I know several doing such.

4. Our lab has many PhDs, most with International training for their PhD thesis work and post grad work. At least half are female physicists.

5. Libraries are limited but papers and others are obtainable via the Internet. When I write a research publication I have to get my references through this method and it works very well. We do very serious research, many are areas never done in Thailand and very limited similar projects Internationally. One such project is in super cooling atoms in quantum physics for things like quantum computers, more precise atomic clocks, etc. Not weak areas of research by any means.

Easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize.

I do not hire any Thai University graduates. It's like hiring 5th graders at best.

Among the reasons Thai universities are not on the Young 50 List and/or can't crack the top 400 of the overall list:

1. Few publications in English means nobody is going to cite them.

2. Few presentations at international conferences means few people are going to know them

3. Force people to retire at 60, when many in Europe and the US teach into their 70s and actually increase their research and publication rate--especially later in their career.

4. Relatively few PhDs (and reliance on online PhDs when they do get them) compared to PhD as a minimum requirement in the West for even the most basic consideration of a job.

5. No serious libraries = No serious research.

OTOH, Thai universities do like to build a lot of buildings. It's just that there is nothing in them. Potemkin Universities, you might call them.

Have you actually spent very much time in a Thai academic environment? I have at a major university, for over 20 years and will address your points.

1. All the graduate & PhD candidates produce publications in English, both National and International. I proof many of the manuscripts and after peer review comes back from the publishers, I help with the errors.

2. Many International presentations are done by our students. Recently one in Japan where one of our PhD candidates came in 1st place with his presentation even over several Japanese students.

3. There is mandatory retirement at 60 at government universities but if one has strong contributions they can continue work via annual contracts. I know several doing such.

4. Our lab has many PhDs, most with International training for their PhD thesis work and post grad work. At least half are female physicists.

5. Libraries are limited but papers and others are obtainable via the Internet. When I write a research publication I have to get my references through this method and it works very well. We do very serious research, many are areas never done in Thailand and very limited similar projects Internationally. One such project is in super cooling atoms in quantum physics for things like quantum computers, more precise atomic clocks, etc. Not weak areas of research by any means.

Easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize.

Go outside of Thailand and perhaps a small percentage of people at real universities have heard of Chula. Other Thai universities have hardly any reputation whatsoever. Why? Because when you attend international conferences there are almost never any other papers being presented from Thai universities. I have stacks of proceedings with NO Thai university participation at all. Look at major English language journals and show me just where you see this flowering of Thai contributions? Where Thai (and, to be far, many academics in SE Asia and China) publish is in dubious, pay for publishing open access journals. As to your last point, about online "papers and others" being available. I'm sure they are. But archival sources, special collections, and primary sources from which most important work emerges are not. That's why legitimate scholars in my field spend a great deal of time at places like the Ransom Center, for major projects, and scores of smaller institutions and their collections for specialized subjects. Not to mention the loss of serendipity that accompanies online research.