UK tax

[Foxter]

I am looking for some advice

When I move to Thailand , all year, and my tax it taken from source.

Even if my pension is paid directly into my Thai bank , tax is still taken from source .

I was wondering, can I get a change of tax code or not pay tax at all ?

If so how ?

Thanks in advance

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[MW72]

I am afraid I don't really know about pensions. I am working and as I spend less than 90 days in the Uk I don't have to pay tax. I had to fill in a form called a P85 to apply for NT tax code status. This stops my employer from deducting tax at source. I have to file a tax return every year even though I don't pay tax.

I think your best bet is to contact an accountant that deals with expats.

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[sustento]

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

[Foxter]

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

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[wordchild]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It is not the case that all UK arising income is subject to UK tax for non residents. Income from dividends , for example, no matter how great, is not subject to UK tax for a non resident. Income from property, however, is taxed.

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Edited May 7, 2014 by wordchild

[MAJIC]

UK Pension sceme's,which are generated in the Uk, are subject to UK Tax at source! I don't know if the situation has changed but once there was no option to have your Private Pension paid outside of the UK tax free, Why? ....you have guessed it! because it was generated in the UK! and the only way not to pay UK Tax was if your Tax allowance in the UK was not exceeded by your Pension Benefits. i.e Tax allowance per year in the UK = £9,000, Pension per year - £10,000= £100 Taxable!

Edited May 7, 2014 by MAJIC

[JB300]

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It is not the case that all UK arising income is subject to UK tax for non residents. Income from dividends , for example, no matter how great, is not subject to UK tax for a non resident. Income from property, however, is taxed.

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Sorry, Gordon Brown changed the rules a while back & income from Dividends is taxed (IIRC at 25%, check out your Composite Tax Certificate or Dividend voucher & you'll see an entry for "Tax Credit", this is the Tax that's been deducted from your dividend before it was paid & should be reported on your Tax Return if this plus any other income puts you over the 40% tax threshold then you'll need to pay more Tax on your dividends).

Irrespective of your status as a UK Resident/Tax payer Tax from Dividends cannot be reclaimed against Personal allowances etc...

To the OP, unfortunately there's nothing you can do to stop your pension being taxed at source, but you should get some (all if it's below the Personal Allowance threshold) back though probably need to fill in a Tax Return to do so (very easy to do online).

Edited May 7, 2014 by JB300

[sustento]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

There you go.

[AyG]

Sorry, Gordon Brown changed the rules a while back & income from Dividends is taxed (IIRC at 25%, check out your Composite Tax Certificate or Dividend voucher & you'll see an entry for "Tax Credit", this is the Tax that's been deducted from your dividend before it was paid & should be reported on your Tax Return if this plus any other income puts you over the 40% tax threshold then you'll need to pay more Tax on your dividends).

This is wrong. To quote the HMRC website:

Savings and investment income (except rental income)

If you're not resident in the UK, you might still be liable to pay UK tax on any savings or investment income from UK sources. But the amount of tax you pay is limited to the amount deducted 'at source' before you receive the income - you don't need to complete a tax return to tell HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) about this.

In other words, even if you're in the 40% tax band, you don't pay any additional tax on dividend income.

Source: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/tax-incomegains.htm

See also: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/saimmanual/saim1170.htm

[JB300]

Apologies, only time I've had income in the UK above the 40% threshold was when I lived there & I did have to pay additional tax on all of my dividends.

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

Very happy to be proven wrong on this one & would be even happier if my UK Dividend Income would get above the 40% threshold

Edited May 8, 2014 by JB300

[meatboy]

first the op needs to say wether he is 65 or hasn't reached retirement age,has he assets in the uk.eg.house for rent,savings and investments,dont understand when he asks how do I get a tax code? everyone who resides in the uk.has a tax code based on their personel allowance and income.he needs to give us more information and going by his post he doesn't come across as british.

[AyG]

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

[edit: To be clear though, I was only wrong about the 40% part, you do pay tax at source on a Dividends and cannot claim this back].

Actually, you were also rather off with the dividend tax credit rate. It's 10% not 25%.

[JB300]

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

I meant that if my UK Dividend income took me over the threshold, I was expecting to have to pay additional tax and wouldn't be able to claim/pay this in Singapore as they don't tax any income from investments (local or overseas) here...

But I'm very happy to be proven wrong on that one

[edit: To be clear though, I was only wrong about the 40% part, you do pay tax at source on a Dividends and cannot claim this back].

Actually, you were also rather off with the dividend tax credit rate. It's 10% not 25%.

Yeah, spotted the 10% in the link provided & removed that line (more good news )

Have to say, I've not been on TV for very long but am learning an incredible amount of stuff (a lot of which I thought I knew!) which is really helping me plan for my retirement & giving me much more confidence in that planning.

Cheers

JB

Edited May 8, 2014 by JB300

[wordchild]

Apologies, only time I've had income in the UK above the 40% threshold was when I lived there & I did have to pay additional tax on all of my dividends.

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

Very happy to be proven wrong on this one & would be even happier if my UK Dividend Income would get above the 40% threshold

Other sorts of UK investment income can be treated as "excluded" for tax purposes for a non resident eg income from corporate bonds or gilts which can be paid gross of tax to the recipient (ie no tax deducted at source). To benefit from this treatment you need to be non resident, and also not ordinarily resident; it is not relevant (as far as this is concerned) where you are resident ie Singapore would be the same as Thailand, there would be no tax to pay on this income and also on any dividends you receive. Edited May 8, 2014 by wordchild

[AyG]

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

I meant that if my UK Dividend income took me over the threshold, I was expecting to have to pay additional tax and wouldn't be able to claim/pay this in Singapore as they don't tax any income from investments (local or overseas) here...

But I'm very happy to be proven wrong on that one

Sorry, but I'm rather struggling to understand what you mean.

If you're non-resident in the UK there is no more tax to pay on dividend income. (The sad part is that tax paid can't be reclaimed.)

If you're not resident in Singapore, there's no tax on foreign (i.e. non-Singaporean) dividends.

So, if you're a British ex-pat and hold your equity investments in Singapore there's no extra tax to pay, either in the UK, or in Singapore, however much the dividend income is. (But then there wouldn't be, even if you held your equities in the UK.)

Does that cover it?

(I'm not sure what the situation is with respect to taxation by Singapore of dividends from Singaporean companies. Haven't looked into it.)

[SheungWan]

UK Pension sceme's,which are generated in the Uk, are subject to UK Tax at source! I don't know if the situation has changed but once there was no option to have your Private Pension paid outside of the UK tax free, Why? ....you have guessed it! because it was generated in the UK! and the only way not to pay UK Tax was if your Tax allowance in the UK was not exceeded by your Pension Benefits. i.e Tax allowance per year in the UK = £9,000, Pension per year - £10,000= £100 Taxable!

Missing 900 quid?

[JB300]

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

I meant that if my UK Dividend income took me over the threshold, I was expecting to have to pay additional tax and wouldn't be able to claim/pay this in Singapore as they don't tax any income from investments (local or overseas) here...

But I'm very happy to be proven wrong on that one

Sorry, but I'm rather struggling to understand what you mean.

If you're non-resident in the UK there is no more tax to pay on dividend income. (The sad part is that tax paid can't be reclaimed.)

If you're not resident in Singapore, there's no tax on foreign (i.e. non-Singaporean) dividends.

So, if you're a British ex-pat and hold your equity investments in Singapore there's no extra tax to pay, either in the UK, or in Singapore, however much the dividend income is. (But then there wouldn't be, even if you held your equities in the UK.)

Does that cover it?

(I'm not sure what the situation is with respect to taxation by Singapore of dividends from Singaporean companies. Haven't looked into it.)

Sorry, "Happy to be proven wrong" was meant literally (as in I'm happy to be shown that I was wrong), but it's not the best phrase to use in an online forum as it can often come across as "Well I don't think I'm wrong, but..."

You covered it perfectly thanks and I'm happy to have had my misunderstanding about Tax on UK Dividends corrected

Edited May 8, 2014 by JB300

[Questador]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It is not the case that all UK arising income is subject to UK tax for non residents. Income from dividends , for example, no matter how great, is not subject to UK tax for a non resident. Income from property, however, is taxed.

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Good post.

A look at the entry for Thailand in the HMRC Double Taxation Digest confirms:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/dtdigest.pdf

UK Government pensions are included in the treaty, but it is of little comfort to most due to the (N + R) condition.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Questador

[AyG]

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Just to add slightly to this: if you are in a country where the pension can be paid gross, it won't be so initially. Tax will be deducted. Only when you can provide proof that you've been paying tax on the pension in your home will they switch to paying gross. For a period you'll be taxed by both the UK and your new country, and then have to reclaim the UK tax.

And being pedantic, the UK/Thailand tax treaty does cover one kind of pension: government pensions, i.e. pensions paid to retired civil servants. Funny how the negotiators of the treaty added in their own pensions for favorable tax treatment, but not those of the rest of us.

[KittenKong]

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

A broad statement that has many exceptions for non-residents.

[KittenKong]

Other sorts of UK investment income can be treated as "excluded" for tax purposes for a non resident eg income from corporate bonds or gilts which can be paid gross of tax to the recipient (ie no tax deducted at source).

And any deposit interest that is paid gross.

[Foxter]

first the op needs to say wether he is 65 or hasn't reached retirement age,has he assets in the uk.eg.house for rent,savings and investments,dont understand when he asks how do I get a tax code? everyone who resides in the uk.has a tax code based on their personel allowance and income.he needs to give us more information and going by his post he doesn't come across as british.

Thanks , I am under 65 , so have nor reached my retirement age, I have no assets in the UK , and don't fall in the 40 % bracket . I have retired and bought a house in Chiang Mai. Want to get the info before moving so I have it all in hand .

I am British lol how do I make myself sound British . Ah I am drinking a cup of Yorkshire tea as I type lol

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[meatboy]

first the op needs to say wether he is 65 or hasn't reached retirement age,has he assets in the uk.eg.house for rent,savings and investments,dont understand when he asks how do I get a tax code? everyone who resides in the uk.has a tax code based on their personel allowance and income.he needs to give us more information and going by his post he doesn't come across as british.

Thanks , I am under 65 , so have nor reached my retirement age, I have no assets in the UK , and don't fall in the 40 % bracket . I have retired and bought a house in Chiang Mai. Want to get the info before moving so I have it all in hand .

I am British lol how do I make myself sound British . Ah I am drinking a cup of Yorkshire tea as I type lol

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Yorkshire tea[Tetley's].I shouldn't worry too much about your tax code,if and when you start to get any occu.and private pensions paid to you[best paid into a uk bank acc.] the providers of your pensions will get your tax code after whatever you have declared as income less your personel allowance.the inland rev.will send you your code [don't forget to tell them your new address ] if you think its wrong you can contact them.any info you need eg.what kind of visa,thai bank savings interest rates.its all here.hope your [wifes] house is ok.after the quake.

taffy.

[Foxter]

Yes. All is well thank you and thanks for the information.

Richard

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[MAJIC]

UK Pension sceme's,which are generated in the Uk, are subject to UK Tax at source! I don't know if the situation has changed but once there was no option to have your Private Pension paid outside of the UK tax free, Why? ....you have guessed it! because it was generated in the UK! and the only way not to pay UK Tax was if your Tax allowance in the UK was not exceeded by your Pension Benefits. i.e Tax allowance per year in the UK = £9,000, Pension per year - £10,000= £100 Taxable!

Missing 900 quid?

Yes missing zero,should have been £1000 taxable.Good spotting!

[davejones23]

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

That's not true if you're non-resident for tax purposes.

[davejones23]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It is not the case that all UK arising income is subject to UK tax for non residents. Income from dividends , for example, no matter how great, is not subject to UK tax for a non resident. Income from property, however, is taxed.

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Only property that's located in the UK.

[Soutpeel]

Interesting article in the telegraph....RE UK tax man...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10818323/Taxman-has-power-to-raid-your-bank-accounts.html

[Changoverandout]

Still a couple of years to go but is it best to keep a UK address as 'home' rather than here?

[AyG]

Still a couple of years to go but is it best to keep a UK address as 'home' rather than here?

It's always best to keep a UK address that you can use - that of a relative or friend. Makes life easier when an institution suddenly decides that it won't deal with people living abroad.

As I've posted elsewhere, my IFA has suddenly decided I'm no longer a client after 10 years, so I have to find a new wrap account for my UK investments. Nobody will take me onboard unless I'm either in the UK or have an IFA. Without using a UK address I'd have a real problem.