Is Alcohlics Anonymous run by christians?

[Deserted]

Hi all, I was looking at the AA site the other day in the 12 traditions of AA, I saw the following:

1. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern

And in the 12 steps I saw:

1. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
2. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
3. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
4. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
5. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
6. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

This all looks a bit strange to me, Could someone please clarify.

[Langsuan Man]

Fortunately not much to clarify

The wording is designed to be non denominational. If it were specifically for Christians then they would use the work Christ, not God and the even more neutral term Higher Power, which is used in case you don't believe in God, but believe there is someone or something greater than you controlling things

The organization does have it's roots in Christian philosophy but only to the extend that Christians believe in helping each other, which is the cornerstone of the AA program (which it shares with anonymity)

AA does not have leaders, there is no board of governors that sets up rules and regulations, membership quotas, or any other such things. The leaders are all volunteers and don't really lead in the traditional sense. The leadership in AA comes from it's community of members and the only requirement for membership is the desire to give up drinking

Yes, there is a formal organizational structure in most countries that is responsible for publishing books, pamphlets, and meeting directories based upon local languages, but these are just administrative entities and don't "make rules". Very little fund raising is done since expenses are paid for by the sale of books and pamphlets. I used to travel a lot and they publish a world wide guide with point of contacts for AA all over the world which I purchased for a nominal fee. Most of the expenses of local meetings (snack food, coffee and beverages) is raised through small donations at meetings and meeting space is usually donated by churches, synagogues, or local civic centers

To be perfectly honest with you there is a limit to what you can learn about AA on the Internet, go to a meeting and you will understand exactly what the organization does and how it does it. And believe me, no one is going to try and force any religion on you

[big carl]

If you don't understand those points I would advise you to start going to the meetings and see first hand how it works for people of many denominations and atheists. Don't expect to learn it all over night. Those are six of 12 steps to recovery. It is not a race there is no homework you are free to do as you wish. They are just suggestions that seem to have worked for a lot of people.

If you read them as they are written you will notice most of them are written in the past tense. Many people change over the years and decide to take a look at them selves as they are after they have been sober for a while. When I came in I was told if I didn't like God to use Good Orderly Direction. Or put another o in it to make it good. Any thing that was acceptable to me. You will notice that in the third step they say God as we understood him. In other words they are allowing you to change your mind. When I came in I was sure he was out to get me. It took me two years to use the word God. Now these many years later I realize that God is not an old man with a beard. If I was to explain my understanding of God you would never find any of it in the bible. Maybe a physics book. Plus I am probably wrong in fact I am wrong but it works for me.

If I could understand God that would sure put a limit to what he/she/it could do.

The 12 steps are a set of principals for a way to live. A friend of mine who has passed on was a monk and he took them to his Abbot and his Abbot said they were a very good set of principals. go to meetings and see what they are like.

Go to many as there are many different kinds of people even atheists.

Also do your self a favor and try not to intellectualize it. Fun to sit around with people and do that but when you are away from that group it becomes a thing of action.

The second tradition is self explanatory if 6 out of 10 say this is what they believe that is the conscience of that group.

I strongly urge you to go to AA if you are an alcoholic. If not check and see if there is an open meeting and go any how. A few are closed meetings for Alcoholics only most are open. Don't forget the third tradition which says the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

It used to say honest desire but they dropped that word.

[rucus7]

The original post seems purposely vague. Does the poster consider him/her self a problem drinker? Or are you just trying to create a Religious debate?

[Sheryl]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

[gerry123]

Well done spoken/written like a true LEADER oops sorry i misread NO LEADERS

[Deserted]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

[big carl]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

Reread my post. That was when I was new and did not know any thing.If you had bothered to read my post you would know that the wording allowed me to change my view of God.

After many years decades actually I had to change it again last year when they discovered the God particle.

If God is religious to you then that is your belief so use it. It did not work for me.

I had tried talking with a priest it did me no good. It was only in the rooms of AA where I was aloud to use my own version.

This meant I could let go of a whole lot of Catholic schooling. As I said it took me two years just to use the word God.

AA offers a spiritual program there are many different versions of what spirituality is . The same as God.

We don't care what yours is. It is none of are business. If it is working for you well and good.

If not I might suggest you do like most of us have had to do redefine God and spirituality.

For myself spirituality is more in how I get along with others am I a part of there life or just using them.

But that is just me I don't know what others believe nor do I care if it works for them.

I long ago learned that if the word God will scare them out alcohol will scare them back.

Did i mention I know two athiests one who has been sober 46 years. All he says is there is some thing here in these rooms and he doesn't know what it is.

Actually alcohol had done a number on me. I in no way could analyze it like you have done.

I had passed that point years before I came in to the rooms. When I did finally come all I cared about was getting off the merry go round.

I was unemployable and dressed in my finest looked like I had just crawled out of a dumpster. I should have listened to my mother 8 years earlier when I was still a highly sought after worker in my field.

But I knew I could handle it. NOT Alcohol is very patient it will wait years to get you if you are an alcoholic it will wait the years it takes to get you. Unless you find an alternative. There are several other suggestions on this thread find one you like and use it.

What ever you do the best of luck to you.

[nidieunimaitre]

The word "God" means god, what else?

Change one drug for another.

But if that other drug is less harmfull, or if you manage to sublimate "God" into something third age like, good for you.

If it improves your life, good for you.

Doesn't work for me though.

[Deserted]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

Reread my post. That was when I was new and did not know any thing.If you had bothered to read my post you would know that the wording allowed me to change my view of God.

After many years decades actually I had to change it again last year when they discovered the God particle.

If God is religious to you then that is your belief so use it. It did not work for me.

I had tried talking with a priest it did me no good. It was only in the rooms of AA where I was aloud to use my own version.

This meant I could let go of a whole lot of Catholic schooling. As I said it took me two years just to use the word God.

AA offers a spiritual program there are many different versions of what spirituality is . The same as God.

We don't care what yours is. It is none of are business. If it is working for you well and good.

If not I might suggest you do like most of us have had to do redefine God and spirituality.

For myself spirituality is more in how I get along with others am I a part of there life or just using them.

But that is just me I don't know what others believe nor do I care if it works for them.

I long ago learned that if the word God will scare them out alcohol will scare them back.

Did i mention I know two athiests one who has been sober 46 years. All he says is there is some thing here in these rooms and he doesn't know what it is.

Actually alcohol had done a number on me. I in no way could analyze it like you have done.

I had passed that point years before I came in to the rooms. When I did finally come all I cared about was getting off the merry go round.

I was unemployable and dressed in my finest looked like I had just crawled out of a dumpster. I should have listened to my mother 8 years earlier when I was still a highly sought after worker in my field.

But I knew I could handle it. NOT Alcohol is very patient it will wait years to get you if you are an alcoholic it will wait the years it takes to get you. Unless you find an alternative. There are several other suggestions on this thread find one you like and use it.

What ever you do the best of luck to you.

I have read it. My point is again that values are pushed onto people. Changing the word GOD to Good Orderly Behaviour is pretty sly. The meaning might change for you but you've only gone from using a word to an acronym and that is my whole point. Why were either suggested in the first place?

[wooloomooloo]

The original post seems purposely vague. Does the poster consider him/her self a problem drinker? Or are you just trying to create a Religious debate?

... or creating a barrier to further help?

[Langsuan Man]

Your title was :

Is Alcohlics Anonymous run by christians?

The answer that you don't appear to want to hear is NO. Just because someone or something uses the term God or higher power does not make it Christian. Jews, Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, as Sheryl stated, belong and use AA and they are not Christians

Go to a meeting and then you can come back here and make your point, but it means nothing if you are going to use the Internet as the basis for your belief

When you first asked I thought that you were serious but now have come to believe * that your question was motivated by your desire to express your opinion, not to obtain an answer to the question

*step 2

[big carl]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

Reread my post. That was when I was new and did not know any thing.If you had bothered to read my post you would know that the wording allowed me to change my view of God.

After many years decades actually I had to change it again last year when they discovered the God particle.

If God is religious to you then that is your belief so use it. It did not work for me.

I had tried talking with a priest it did me no good. It was only in the rooms of AA where I was aloud to use my own version.

This meant I could let go of a whole lot of Catholic schooling. As I said it took me two years just to use the word God.

AA offers a spiritual program there are many different versions of what spirituality is . The same as God.

We don't care what yours is. It is none of are business. If it is working for you well and good.

If not I might suggest you do like most of us have had to do redefine God and spirituality.

For myself spirituality is more in how I get along with others am I a part of there life or just using them.

But that is just me I don't know what others believe nor do I care if it works for them.

I long ago learned that if the word God will scare them out alcohol will scare them back.

Did i mention I know two athiests one who has been sober 46 years. All he says is there is some thing here in these rooms and he doesn't know what it is.

Actually alcohol had done a number on me. I in no way could analyze it like you have done.

I had passed that point years before I came in to the rooms. When I did finally come all I cared about was getting off the merry go round.

I was unemployable and dressed in my finest looked like I had just crawled out of a dumpster. I should have listened to my mother 8 years earlier when I was still a highly sought after worker in my field.

But I knew I could handle it. NOT Alcohol is very patient it will wait years to get you if you are an alcoholic it will wait the years it takes to get you. Unless you find an alternative. There are several other suggestions on this thread find one you like and use it.

What ever you do the best of luck to you.

I have read it. My point is again that values are pushed onto people. Changing the word GOD to Good Orderly Behaviour is pretty sly. The meaning might change for you but you've only gone from using a word to an acronym and that is my whole point. Why were either suggested in the first place?

To make it easier for people who are not having to much difficulty YET

Also Group Of Drunks

Show me any where that I have tried to push any thing on you I have reoeatedkly iterated my experiance and told you use any thing you want. You are trying to shove your belief off on me.

As I said if you don't like it there are several other methods offered on this forum pick the one you like and use it.

The important thing is if alcohol is causing a problem in your life do some thing about it.

I guarantee you it can and will get worse.

Up to you. You obviously haven't got it bad enough that you are willing to except the AA way so try an easier softer way.

As many of the posts on this thread have demonstrated some people have had successes with them.

One other false assumption that you are operating under is that every one in AA does the steps.

There are lot's of them who just the fellowship is good enough.

[Deserted]

Not assuming anything at all hence the title of the thread.

[impulse]

I'm living proof that someone who doesn't believe in God can quit drinking through AA.

I'm also proof that I didn't have to believe I was an alcoholic going in. I wasn't an alcoholic (didn't think so anyway). I just had a desire to stop drinking.

Alcohol was causing problems in my life. I wanted to try life without alcohol for "awhile" to see if the problems would get better. So I darkened the door of an AA meeting. My life got better. Been better now for 25 years.

By my recollection, a small portion of the people I've met along the way hold themselves out as Christians. Maybe more of them are, maybe they aren't. Doesn't matter to me if it works.

It's that simple. Getting caught up in semantics and definitions kills a lot of people.

[Sheryl]

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

One of the key traditions that AA and other 12 step programs adheres to is "attraction rather than promotion" . It does not attempt to foist anything on anyone. It is up to those who want what the program has to offer, to come and see and, if they like it, make use of it.

Hardly an attempt to "impart values on others".

It is a fellowship of people trying to deal with alcoholism, and was started by alcoholics who had found a method that worked for them and wanted to share it with others.

That method does involve opening up to a higher power, but there is no "hidden agenda" behind it and it is not being used to try to get people to believe something. The higher power part is the crux of the program and it simply doesn't work -- doesn't give the needed results -- without it. Those who give it a try, learn this.

I did not say that the term higher power was unimportant, I said what you understand a higher power to be is unimportant as long as you can open yourself to the possibility that there is one of some type. There is absolutely no "-ism" or specific religious belief being promoted here. AA members include Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, you name it. They all benefit the same as long as they work the program, and people from all those backgrounds and more find it possible to do that without having to convert to a religion/other religion.

Many people do struggle initially with the higher power aspect. And I have known some people who let it be a barrier keeping them from even trying the program. To their loss. Up to you if you are going to be among that number or give it a try.

[Deserted]

I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

[ding]

Nope, it's a spiritual program. More similar to Buddhism than any other eligion because it doesn't condemn any religion - or no religion.

Religion is for people afraid of hell

Spirituality is for those who've been there.

[Minnehaha]

I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

AA is interested to help people quit drinking. That is their stated agenda.

They got to this from the first group that figured out that as a group they could help each other quit drinking. They believed in the beginning that it was the God you are frightened about, but it was not really a hidden agenda. They were open about it.

As the first group grew in size they realized that belief in the Christian God was not necessary, and in fact it was a problem for some people. So they dropped it and sanitized the Christianity from it best they could. Some remains. They do say the Lords Prayer at many meetings (at the end). But no one has to say it and some are just quiet. This prayer is a small thing and is not topics of discussion. The topics are about how they quit drinking, their adventures before and after quitting, etc. Nobody has a Christian agenda. But the material does have some Christian principles. The idea that by helping another person you actually benefit is one example.

AA does in fact have a board of directors, and more than half are non-alcoholics, as per their by laws. They also have a few paid staff members in their NY office. I knew one very well.

The organization chart of AA is in fact a topic of interest in management and you will find it included in Management courses at MBA programs, due to its unique inverted triangle structure, where the members are at the top and the board and trusted servants are at the bottom. That it has survived and grown for close to 100 years is a testament to its strengths.

[soinowinbkk]

Will add what I am surprised no one has stated yet. One of the best "principle" of AA and other 12-step programs is a wonderful guide to life, "Take what you want and leave the rest."

The process of going to meetings teaches "members" – by listening, by trying things oneself and sharing with others about it, by reading the literature – that, in AA, if you want to stop drinking, one way to do so is following the SUGGESTED steps (which you listed above). And yes, they even say that the steps are SUGGESTED.

No Christianity and no "values being pushed" at all.

[Benmart]

"Is Alcoholics Anonymous run by Christians?"

I don't think it's "run" by anyone. All are welcome and each group is autonomous. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or disbeliefs.

The attraction for me is the lack of rules, laws, commandments, decrees, statutes, edicts and dogma. Guidelines and suggestions are a path.

Freedom, the desire not to drink and the fellowship keeps me coming back.

Keep It Simple

[In Town]

I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

I don't like you. People try to help you with your problem and you merely want to argue. Go ahead, argue with yourself. When you hit bottom and are finally ready to admit defeat and stop making excuses, stop by for a coffee and a chat.

[cnx37]

For the newcomer in particular, I agree totally! The GOD concept can be a real put-off!

However, consider your options. If you really "desire" to get sober, where else? I guarantee that you are NOT the first to have such an opinion.

So, I suggest that you go to some meetings - listen to the stories - look for the similarities - not the differences. Slowly, but surely, you will feel better! You will lose your desire to pick up the 1st drink. Is that what you want?

You are on your way!

Later, maybe review the GOD concept (if you so choose).

Yes, in its beginnings, the Fellowship was a Christian-based group - so be it.

It is not a BIG issue.

As was stated in the previous post - "Take what you want and leave the rest" & again, the steps are suggestions only!

It is that easy! No rules - if you don't like it, get back on the piss!

[Maggusoil]

I take it as a person potentially wanting to seek help at AA but put off by the reference to "God" and "Higher Power".

Many people are, a common problem.

As other posters have explained, AA is not "run" by anyone. The program does involve learning to seek/allow help from a "higher power" but there is no sectarian requirement and no specific belief you have to have. Many people have a belief in some type of God so they use that word, but others do not and work instead with whatever sort of higher power they can accept: nature, natural law, even just the group of AA members.

It does not matter what you think the "higher power" is, what is important is what it is not: your own self will.

Many non-Christians have found help at AA; even many atheists have. In Thailand of course, most of the Thai members are Buddhist.

People with absolutely no spiritual beliefs of any sort do sometimes struggle on this "higher Power" issue initially. Remember that it can be anything other than yourself. It can be nature. It can be your fellow AA members.

To not accept that any type of higher power exists then in effect you are implicitly believing that there is no force in the universe greater than yourself, which if you think about it is clearly untrue. You are subject to many things beyond your own control, aging and death among them. So something(s) , even if not someone is more powerful than yourself. That's a higher power. The AA program will teach you to open yourself up to receiving help from it. You may feel this is odd or will not work, but I can promise you that if you do open yourself up to accepting help from a higher power, even with no idea at all of what that power is or how it works -- you will get it. It is amazing but true and it is core to the all 12 step programs.

You may find that many of the other members do have a belief in God and use that word, but you are free to understand a higher power however it works for you. It is of no importance.

Okay thanks for the reply but this does look like a rather surreptitious attempt to impart values onto others. You say that to deny no such higher power exists is synonymous with denying that there are things beyond our control, such as ageing as you mention. But these are separate issues. No rational person would deny there are things beyond our control but when you use the term 'higher power' this has spiritual connotations.

You say the term 'higher power' doesn't matter so why is it used? I would say it makes all the difference if someone has opened up to other members and are actively engaged in conversation with them, and can describe that process for what it is? That is a powerful process worthy of discussion and is very different to giving praise to someone who is controlling you, which to some degree negatives your own actions.

I'm sorry but this does look like a framework created by Christians who want to bring people closer to their god by identifying a weakness that they have. It's a common tactic to target the weak and needy. One poster claimed he was told he could use Good Orderly Direction rather than the word GOD. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

I have a good friend who has been a 'sober' alcoholic for 23 years. He attributes this achievement to AA and still attends meetings. Some people have no way of controlling their drinking. AA is not for everybody and he says about 3% achieve his success rate. Whatever way people can control their relationship with alcohol, seems to me AA, serves many who have no other way.

A 'higher power' is a force of good, you call upon to assist, when your "will" power, is simply not enough.

I have been to addiction meetings, and although they are not for me, there is always something to learn and find value in. I saw no praising of anybody or anything, or any reference to Christianity. What I did find were people who had lived some of the most excessive lives and I thought I

was adventurous. It was humbling to see such ragers, being so humble. Interesting.

[nycjoe]

In the early 1930's in america, this was the culture, you do not have to believe in god, just a power greater than yourself, many are turned away by the god word. Of course your desire to drink is telling you whether you know it or not that this is an excuse not to go to a meeting, just go and find out for yourself, or keep on drinking until you are ready to stop like the millions of others who have used the program to stop.

I don't believe in god, but I am open minded and I don't worry about that, just saving my butt.

I don't believe in heaven either but when I was drinking it was hell and right now I am in walking in paradise and wearing a smile.

[Card]

Seems to me the AA was set up to convert alcoholics into religious beings, even if that is no longer the case. If an alcoholic gets 'better' through the AA then more than likely he may attribute it to a miracle 'cure' from God and continue believing in this miraculous God instead of his own character. I have come across alcoholics who became very religious, although I don't know if they attended AA. However, having said that, it may be better to be religious than alcoholic, although that may be debateable. That is one reason why the Salvation Army did their collecting in pubs on a Saturday night, at least in the old days. Catch them unawares when they will feel good about giving money and show off to their friends. Many religious recruits are drawn from disadvantaged people for the same reason - vulnerable people with nothing to lose are fair game. For example, when I volunteered in the tsunami devasted area of Khao Lak in 2005, there were loads of mainly American Christian organisations sent over to 'plant churches' and make converts among the dispossessed Thais in exchange for help in rebuilding their communities. Sickening. However, in the end I think the joke was on them, with the Thais taking all they could give but not believing a word they said.

[ggt]

What is the problem here? Want to dismantle an organization that has helped 10s of thousands of people regain their lives and dignity...? So what if it was Christian...?

[Neeranam]

I am going to an AA meeting tonight in a Buddhist temple with Thai alcoholics, who happen to be Buddhist. There is no mention of God as the translated word is the literature here is 'sing suk sit'. So to the OP, no it is not.

[Andre0720]

If God or the Power created it all,

Well, might as well ask him or it to participate in fixing some of problems that he has created

[DLP]

I have always been under the impression that it was run by x alcoholics.