Work Permit expiry. Visa extension validity. Options?

[Bkknelson]

Dear TV,

I have read through several posts that are closely related to, but do not directly address my specific situation and questions, and would appreciate your knowledgeable opinions.

I am employed by a Thai company for preceding 14 months. My work permit will expire this month. My visa extension is valid until mid July.

My employer does not intend to renew my work permit (This I have been informed verbally. No notice or information of this termination has been issued in any written form). I assume this to be their way of terminating my employment without actually doing so formally or correctly.

I am still a little shocked by this and do not know why they have decided to do so. Presumably they may assume to avoid any legal implications of inadequate notice in this way (2 weeks verbal only). I do not know, but this is a question for another post in a different forum. For now I need to focus on the most immediate practical issues of this.

From posts that I have read it appears that when a work permit is cancelled the visa extension is also cancelled and a temporary stay (7 days) should be applied for and granted?

I have requested my Employer attend to this and inform me accordingly, and have received no response. It seems they intend to entirely ignore the situation and take no action whatsoever other than letting my WP expire (any subsequent problems then being entirely mine to deal with in their mind)

My questions then are:

When my WP expires (not cancelled) does my currently valid visa extension also expire simultaneously?

If so, is this event automatically recorded or known within the Immigration system? For instance, when I appear at an immigration checkpoint will that visa expiry be known and present me with an overstay situation?

(If the VE remains valid it will be my intention to remain in Thailand on that and return to UK at some point before expiry of the Visa Ext)

If not, then how does expiry of a WP affect the apparent status of the visa extension? (I presume that with an apparent current valid visa extension then there must be an exit/reentry stamp for Immigration to validate any exit from Thailand, and absence of this may raise some questions?)

(If the VE lapses with WP expiry it will be my intention to make an immediate border jump and return to Thailand on a 1 month entry stamp before returning to UK)

I presume the option is available to me to go to the issuing immigration office (somewhere in Nontaburi) and process the expiry of WP and apply for a temporary stay myself (at my own cost and trouble naturally)?

But if I do not do so will this affect any future WP application that I may make?

This is not really a cost effective option but of course I will do so if there are any implications attached to not doing so.

My apologies for the length of this post, which is in the interests of relaying any information, and presumptions, that may be relevant.

Many thanks for reading and any assistance you can offer.

Regards. N

[Soutpeel]

From posts that I have read it appears that when a work permit is cancelled the visa extension is also cancelled and a temporary stay (7 days) should be applied for and granted?

Correct...cancelled or allowed to expire, same thing, and extension of stay is not a visa

BTW after 14 months there, you may be entitled to severance pay

[Bkknelson]

Thanks.

Yes, I did expect that to be the case, but cancellation requires a definite input and procedure to be taken. Expiry does not.

It's the implications of expiry that I am unaware of. as I want to avoid any potential unknown issues lurking to ambush me at Immigration points.

I do appreciate the severance pay issue, but dont really want to get into that with this post.

rgds

N

[digitalchromakey]

Looks like you need to find a new job.

Go see Labour with a Thai speaker, they will get onto your current employer to pressure them to settle with you for due redundancy and notice pay.

Your extension of permission to stay will be invalid this month, from the day your WP expires.

Sounds like your employer want's to get rid of you and is try to avoid paying redundancy by being 'clever'.

Get a new job a.s.a.p. and don't let them cheat you out of your notice pay and severance.

[Bkknelson]

Thanks.

The termination issues and any entitlements will be something that I will look into subsequently.

For now, and this particular thread, I am hoping for some opinions and info to get my visa concerns and how to deal with them straight in my head.

rgds

N

[digitalchromakey]

Thanks.

The termination issues and any entitlements will be something that I will look into subsequently.

For now, and this particular thread, I am hoping for some opinions and info to get my visa concerns and how to deal with them straight in my head.

rgds

N

Your Extension of Permission to Stay will be definitely invalid this month, from the day your WP expires.

So you need to plan to leave Thailand on or before this date to get a new visa/entry - probably a Tourist Visa is best if you don't have a new employer yet.

Best you can do extension wise is 7 days from expiry of your WP, unless you are married to a Thai, or are a legitimised parent of a Thai child, etc.

If you keep your head down then you might get away with July, but there is a significant risk of being caught on overstay that depends on whether your current employer notifies Labour or Labour notifies Immigration.

[Bkknelson]

Digital,

Thanks again,

I'm not going to run any risks with visa validity and chance of overstay etc so I shall therefore intend to do a visa run on expiry of WP.

I am intending to do a simple border jump (bus trip tour thing) to obtain a month on entry stamp only (not a visa) as I need to return to UK soon anyway and will obtain Visa from there.

So returning to my earlier questions.

Do you think I will face any questions, either from the bus tour operators or Immigration, regarding my leaving Thailand with an apparent valid extension and without an exit / reentry permit?

Will this cause me any difficulties?

rgds.

N.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Bkknelson

[Soutpeel]

If you keep your head down then you might get away with July, but there is a significant risk of being caught on overstay that depends on whether your current employer notifies Labour or Labour notifies Immigration.

In all honesty, the OP has plenty of time to get this sorted out so for me not a recommended course of action, better get the 7 day extension, then get out of dodge if he has to and come back on another visa

BTW on your severance thing, if the employer comes to you with a letter, stating your "resignation" as it will make it easier canceling your paperwork, do not sign it, as its a ploy to get the employer out of paying the severance...ie if you resign from a company, you have no claim on severance.

If currently the company is not sorting thing out for your, maybe a veiled threat that your are going to talk to the Labour Department may get the action your looking for

[Bkknelson]

Soutpeel.

Thanks, I will not be taking any risks and like to keep myself perfectly straight so far as visa and employment issues in Thailand are concerned.

I also will not be compromising any potential employment rights that I may have by 'resigning'

rgds.

N

[Soutpeel]

Do you think I will face any questions, either from the bus tour operators or Immigration, regarding my leaving Thailand with an apparent valid extension and without an exit / reentry permit?

Will this cause me any difficulties?

rgds.

N.

I wouldn't have thought so, by rights your employer should give you letter stating you have finished work in Thailand etc, not that you should need it at a border, but if you didn't get questioned you could just pull out the letter..

[Bkknelson]

Do you think I will face any questions, either from the bus tour operators or Immigration, regarding my leaving Thailand with an apparent valid extension and without an exit / reentry permit?

Will this cause me any difficulties?

rgds.

N.

I wouldn't have thought so, by rights your employer should give you letter stating you have finished work in Thailand etc, not that you should need it at a border, but if you didn't get questioned you could just pull out the letter..

555.

that's the whole point really isn't it?

They should do but are not, thereby leaving me with the problems.

I shouldn't have to try to fill gaps created by their failures but in my own self preservation interests, I'm obliged to.

rgds

N.

[Soutpeel]

Do you think I will face any questions, either from the bus tour operators or Immigration, regarding my leaving Thailand with an apparent valid extension and without an exit / reentry permit?

Will this cause me any difficulties?

rgds.

N.

I wouldn't have thought so, by rights your employer should give you letter stating you have finished work in Thailand etc, not that you should need it at a border, but if you didn't get questioned you could just pull out the letter..

555.

that's the whole point really isn't it?

They should do but are not, thereby leaving me with the problems.

I shouldn't have to try to fill gaps created by their failures but in my own self preservation interests, I'm obliged to.

rgds

N.

Let me put it to you this way, the last time I changed jobs in Thailand, on an extension of stay, I was in contractual dispute with the employer, and it was getting quite nasty, already had a new job lined up, quit the job 17:00, never gave the 30 days notice contractually required, and on the plane early next morning to Singaporewith the paperwork from the new company in hand, issued a new Non-imm B (Single entry) from the Thai embassy in Singapore and back to Thailand two days later, New WP/New extension of stay issued 7 days later and never any issues with the previous employer (sure they they tried), Dept of labour or immigration

You will be fine, if your WP runs out on a specific date, just make sure your have either the 7 day extension in place, or your on your way out the country and not on an overstay and everything will be ok

[Bkknelson]

Soutpeel,

Thanks for that. I do tend to overthink things sometimes.

Does an overstay start the same day that the WP / extension of stay expires, or following day?.

For instance I will finish work on the day my WP expires and am planning to do a border jump the following day. As promptly as I am physically able in the circumstances. Will this put me on overstay of 1 day?

If so, would such an overstay cause me any other potential problems?

rgds.

N.

[Bkknelson]

Just seen the thread on new border run crackdown.

555, Perfect timing. More complications.

As I will no longer have a visa will this new purge prevent me from doing the border run (presuming there will still be any bus operators left in a couple of weeks from now)

N.

[Soutpeel]

Just seen the thread on new border run crackdown.

555, Perfect timing. More complications.

As I will no longer have a visa will this new purge prevent me from doing the border run (presuming there will still be any bus operators left in a couple of weeks from now)

N.

Just get yourself the 7 day extension (THB 1900) and then jump the border at your leisure, and come back in with a 30 visa exemption stamp, in your circumstances the new rules will not have any effect on what your trying to do...the new rules are to stop people perpetually living in Thailand on 30 day turnarounds, which is not what you have been doing

[Mario2008]

Just seen the thread on new border run crackdown.

555, Perfect timing. More complications.

As I will no longer have a visa will this new purge prevent me from doing the border run (presuming there will still be any bus operators left in a couple of weeks from now)

N.

You curently have a visa entry, so when you make a border run it will be allowed. You can just not do it a second time.

[Bkknelson]

Thanks.

You guys here are great.

S.P. looks like I will do as you recommend and get a 7 day extension.

Presumably I will need to do this at the issuing Immigration office (Somehere in Nonthaburi)?

Also, is it time dependant? by which I mean can I obtain in advance to kick in on expiry of WP or is it 7 days from issue meaning that I should obtain it on the day my WP expires?

rgds

N

[Frostie]

Don't forget that you only get a 15 day Visa on border walkovers...

[Soutpeel]

Thanks.

You guys here are great.

S.P. looks like I will do as you recommend and get a 7 day extension.

Presumably I will need to do this at the issuing Immigration office (Somehere in Nonthaburi)?

Also, is it time dependant? by which I mean can I obtain in advance to kick in on expiry of WP or is it 7 days from issue meaning that I should obtain it on the day my WP expires?

rgds

N

On the specific details on the 7 day extension, hopefully someone else can help you with this one, obviously I am aware it is done, but have never needed to do one in practice...

[Soutpeel]

Don't forget that you only get a 15 day Visa on border walkovers...

Per the "new Rules" thread

From today, foreign nationals residing in Thailand will no longer be able to exit and then re-enter the kingdom via a land border crossing in order to gain another 30 or 15 day stay in Thailand.

so if one is only allowed 15 days, what are the 30 day stays they are referring to then ?

Waiting with baited breath for your insightful response...

[ubonjoe]

It is 15 days at a border crossing except for those from a G7 country who get 30 days. Their are otherd that get 30 days or more because of a bilateral agreement.

[Soutpeel]

It is 15 days at a border crossing except for those from a G7 country who get 30 days. Their are otherd that get 30 days or more because of a bilateral agreement.

And the OP comes from a G7 country (UK) correct ?.....ERGO he will get 30 days

[Bkknelson]

It is 15 days at a border crossing except for those from a G7 country who get 30 days. Their are otherd that get 30 days or more because of a bilateral agreement.

And the OP comes from a G7 country (UK) correct ?.....ERGO he will get 30 days

That's correct.

It is this that makes the border jump a viable alternative as it's basically 30 days for the same price as the 7 day extension (give or take).

[Phuketboy]

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It is 15 days at a border crossing except for those from a G7 country who get 30 days. Their are otherd that get 30 days or more because of a bilateral agreement.

And the OP comes from a G7 country (UK) correct ?... alt=biggrin.png>..ERGO he will get 30 days

That's correct.

It is this that makes the border jump a viable alternative as it's basically 30 days for the same price as the 7 day extension (give or take).

If the rule states From today, foreign nationals residing in Thailand will no longer be able to exit and then re-enter the kingdom via a land border crossing in order to gain another 30 or 15 day stay in Thailand. Then it clearly states that he cannot do this. He will NOT be able to leave and re-enter with another 30 days. Therefore he will get nothing if he crosses via a land boarder crossing. Best to leave and then apply for a tourist visa. the other option would be to fly out and do this. If he flies he can return and get another 30 day stamp. This is my understanding from reading the stated new rule.

[ubonjoe]

I don't know where what you quoted but it is not entirely correct. This from a unofficial translation.

1. Immigration stations are not allowed to permit Visa run-type Out-Ins that are intended to get the right to live in the Kingdom continuously, that are not for purposes of tourism.

One entry will be allowed but after that it will be up to the immigration officer.

[Bkknelson]

Thanks to all for your replies and kind assistance.

In summary then, my extension of stay will expire together with my WP.

Coming off a valid visa (as extended) and WP the new border jump purge should not prevent me from getting a 30 day visa exempt entry stamp.

I shall therefore return to my previous intention to do a border run the day following expiry of my WP and extension of stay. (This being the soonest opportunity physically possible to me)

I would appreciate any thoughts on whether this (next day visa run) will this put me in an overstay situation (even tho' only 1 day) and whether an overstay can possibly jeapardise any future WP i may apply for?

rgds

N.

[Soutpeel]

Thanks to all for your replies and kind assistance.

In summary then, my extension of stay will expire together with my WP.

Coming off a valid visa (as extended) and WP the new border jump purge should not prevent me from getting a 30 day visa exempt entry stamp.

I shall therefore return to my previous intention to do a border run the day following expiry of my WP and extension of stay. (This being the soonest opportunity physically possible to me)

I would appreciate any thoughts on whether this (next day visa run) will this put me in an overstay situation (even tho' only 1 day) and whether an overstay can possibly jeapardise any future WP i may apply for?

rgds

N.

On the overstay, yes you would be on an overstay, although I have never been through a land border, I don't believe 1 day is a big issue, don't they fine you, but they may put a small red stamp in your PP for 1 day overstay, but this will not impact any future WP applications, this bit I am certain of.

[Mario2008]

A 1 day ovrstay is not a big issue.

At an airport they don't fine you if you leave on the first day of overstay (planes are often delayed etc). if you leave later, you also get fined for the overstay.

At land border also a 1 day overstay is fined.

[Bkknelson]

Thanks you guys.

I would prefer not to have an overstay obviously but it seems inevitable. I need more than 7 days but not more than 30. So a border jump even with a B500 overstay fine is much more cost effective than 2 x costs for 7 day extension and then a border jump.

Many thanks.

N.

[Tomtomtom69]

Thanks you guys.

I would prefer not to have an overstay obviously but it seems inevitable. I need more than 7 days but not more than 30. So a border jump even with a B500 overstay fine is much more cost effective than 2 x costs for 7 day extension and then a border jump.

Many thanks.

N.

The following will apply in your case:

To get the maximum amount of time on tourist visas/exempt entries before getting a new job or doing something else, etc. get the 7 day extension, then leave overland or by air. You can return one time under the new regulations without a problem. Or you could just apply for a tourist visa at the same time you are out of the country and return on that. Problem solved (for a while).

There would not be a need for overstay in this case. There should also never be an "inevitable" need for an overstay and even if you think it's cheaper, I would still recommend a border run rather than an overstay. I've managed to leave the same day my visa and work permit were cancelled but a 7 day extension is even better should you need it and I would now recommend getting it with the new rules on overland entry, whereas before I was of the opinion that since you could just do a border run the same day and then come back you might as well do that. While you will still be able to do the latter one time, it will cut down slightly on the amount of time you can stay on no visa compared to obtaining an extension first. Anyway, it's best to apply for a tourist visa ASAP after your work visa and WP are cancelled and then not have to worry about visa runs for a while.