Tensions grow as Thai protesters gear up for showdown

[love1012]

My wife's community is in the heart of so called red shirt country, the majority of people that I have spoken to want the army to step in because they've had enough of the BS from both sides.

This is the sentiment that I get from a lot of Thai people right now. They fully expect it.

After all, it is the historical cycle of these events in Thailand that the coup always happens to sort out the government mess. It is probably the only solution that the population will respect.

Even though it might not be "politically correct" on the world stage, it just might be the right answer for Thailand.

A country under military law- telling the spoiled children what to do and how to do it, along with a comprehensive housecleaning by the army with no compromises to eradicate the Shinawatra clan once and for all. Basically finish what was started in 2006.

As long as the army agrees with the concept of reform, they could be the one to do it, and introduce a fresh election once completed.

agreed......you know.........i post a lot of anti red shirt things but i don't dislike red shirts ..............they are thai. What i `Do dislike is bringing back a wanted criminal to take over as dictator. if you tale Shinawatra out of the picture i will support whatever Government wins and i hope it DOES support the north east people...........i think the army can bring about this situation better than any other group

[3NUMBAS]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in. Distasteful as that may be, it sure beats battles among both the red thugs and the PRDC on our streets.

theyve said it wont be like that this time round but more like the war in the south .ie car bombs in silom road

[FangFerang]

Some of the commentary is hilarious. If anyone criticizes the Shinawatras, they are labeled as PAD-supporting yellow shirt demagogues. If anyone criticizes the PDRC and their yo-yo friends they are labeled as red shirt buffalo sympathizers.

Both criticisms are laughable. In short and simple.

There is plenty of blame to go around the rubber tree hugging Suthep fans and the democracy crowing proponents of a government that took so much that corrupt people call them corrupt. Duh.

What a joke. Maybe both rabid detractors on TVF need a nice glass of milk and a bedtime story...

[Old Man River]

It is a set of predictable events. There will be a coup. Reforms will serve to bolster the un-elected power of a few. Then there will be constant sporadic bombings, which the government will label as terrorist and the bombers will claim as being the actions of freedom fighters because the reds will never again be in a live fire zone.

Neither side of power brokers will compromise, and that gridlock will be in place until the current generation of pretender-Kings all passes away.

THEN there might be reforms. Maybe. It depends on their successors. When the current 'unmentionables' and Thaksin pass away, there may be a meeting of minds.

Do not expect this anytime soon, by anyone's scale.

Right now, the focus is avoiding a civil war. I expect it will be a a brokered deal with an election soon after acceptable to both sides. It is possible, regardless who is seen as the catalyst.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Luk Mhee]

"We will only stop our protest when justice is served," Red Shirts leader Jatuporn Prompan said on Sunday.

This is extremely good news that Mr. J Prompan has finally realized that he works for an extremely corrupt government, I sincerely hope that the rest of the crew will also open their eyes and see the truth

[geriatrickid]

A sad situation of which Thailand will suffer. Everyone loses and there are no winners.

[kratiam]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in. Distasteful as that may be, it sure beats battles among both the red thugs and the PRDC on our streets.

I say let them duke it out in the streets and televise so the whole world can watch the country in a meltdown...it should be quite amusing

Pathetic & childish.......

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in. Distasteful as that may be, it sure beats battles among both the red thugs and the PRDC on our streets.

Yes, my concern is the many thugs will take advantage to loot from anyone they want. Thailand is already lawless enough without full scale riots and looting and while my family is in Khnon Kaen and not Bangkok, I would not put it past many Thai's to try to take advantage of the situation and rob a few local farangs who would be very easy targets. I will be buying a baseball bat in the next few days.

[Chang_paarp]

The army should step in. Go and take a group of the leaders from both sides and put them in a glass house similar to a "big brother" house.

Give them a limited supply of Mama noodles and water and tell them to sort it out. They can have silly games and challenges for extra som tam and other treats.

Broadcast the lot live on a couple of channels so the everyone can see what prats they are.

Only let them out when they have reached an agreement.

What do you think? Will it rate?

Only if they can wave a few guns around, scream, scratch and punch each other, live in gaudy / ugly houses and have at least 6 servants bowing and scraping every 30 seconds and 4 - 5 cars on the driveway at anyone time. Then you might just have a small chance that it will rate.

How about random grenades being lobbed into the compound to focus their attention? Or some "team building" task they all have to participate in with the viewers voting to see if they succeed then they get .... say ... ear medicine.

[AhanFan]

The only time red and yellow works together is when you get this...

Then you get junk food, which is.........Yuuuck!

[tullynagardy]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in.

6 months into this and blood thirsty freaks like yourself are still willing on a military intervention and the inevitable civil war to follow.

Either you dont live here or your just very naive. Perhaps both. Sad.

[kamahele]

And yet another showdown. Is there something stronger to say than "this is a sad state of affairs"? Self serving politicians on both sides, bringing what is left of the country, down with them.

[glennb6]

one of these days it may be time for 'the big guy' to make some decisions for the country, if he is still capable.

[bkksteviejai]

Not sure whats more interesting...the civil war...or these 2 going at it....

Maybe they should consider getting off TV and joining the protests on opposing sides instead of just mouthing off on TV ?

Maybe they should get a room.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Eric Loh]

We are generating our own fear regarding civil war. It wouldn't happen. First before it can happen, the army will step in. The UDD knows the peril of direct confrontation and they can see that the situation is just lots of smoke but really no fire. The PDRC numbers are small for the CAPO to control and they don't have the support of their courts allies. When the arrest come after the court approved the warrants, the hired guards will have the gumption to offer little resistance. These are hired guns that are not loyal supporters and unlikely to put their life at risk for 500B. If CAPO successfully isoated Suterp and his core leaders, it is games over unless Suterp hide behind his supporters.

[Soutpeel]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in.

6 months into this and blood thirsty freaks like yourself are still willing on a military intervention and the inevitable civil war to follow.

Either you dont live here or your just very naive. Perhaps both. Sad.

Actually the longer the military stays out of this, the more likelihood of a civil war, besides the last time the military intervened don't remember that triggering a civil war, and I live here and was here the last time the military intervened.

so how's that for being naïve ?...

[BirdsandBooze]

I agree with Blue Nose Codger. Thailand should never accept Suthep as leader. He is not even a political party. In it for himself. As is Jatuporn and the likes of them. Electoral laws need to be changed, then elections. And I like the pictures you posted. They reminded me of something.

Let me see.... Aaaah yep got it! What a stunning resemblance.

why do you all seem to think Suthep wants to be the leader

He has quoted many times he is only the flag ship for the Thai people to protest

and has no wish to return to Thai Politics

is it because this puts pressure on your Hero Thaksin

or you lot can all read fortune balls

What makes you so confident Suthep will hold true to his promises?

And what is to stop him from running the show by proxy? His step-son will still be around, so will other cronies.

Suthep isn't running the show and never has been. He is doing the bidding for people with way, way more power and privilege than he has. When he has served his useful purpose this marionette will be unceremoniously returned to his box.

[dude123]

My wife's community is in the heart of so called red shirt country, the majority of people that I have spoken to want the army to step in because they've had enough of the BS from both sides.

Which is probably what is going to happen anyway. Better than the two gangs beating up eachother with no real progress happening.

[lildragon]

I agree with Blue Nose Codger. Thailand should never accept Suthep as leader. He is not even a political party. In it for himself. As is Jatuporn and the likes of them. Electoral laws need to be changed, then elections. And I like the pictures you posted. They reminded me of something.

Let me see.... Aaaah yep got it! What a stunning resemblance.

why do you all seem to think Suthep wants to be the leader

He has quoted many times he is only the flag ship for the Thai people to protest

and has no wish to return to Thai Politics

is it because this puts pressure on your Hero Thaksin

or you lot can all read fortune balls

What makes you so confident Suthep will hold true to his promises?

And what is to stop him from running the show by proxy? His step-son will still be around, so will other cronies.

Suthep isn't running the show and never has been. He is doing the bidding for people with way, way more power and privilege than he has. When he has served his useful purpose this marionette will be unceremoniously returned to his box.

This. He's just as much of a puppet for the elite as Yingluck is for her brother. But some TV members think he's akin to Nelson Mandela!

[Morch]

why do you all seem to think Suthep wants to be the leader

He has quoted many times he is only the flag ship for the Thai people to protest

and has no wish to return to Thai Politics

is it because this puts pressure on your Hero Thaksin

or you lot can all read fortune balls

What makes you so confident Suthep will hold true to his promises?

And what is to stop him from running the show by proxy? His step-son will still be around, so will other cronies.

Suthep isn't running the show and never has been. He is doing the bidding for people with way, way more power and privilege than he has. When he has served his useful purpose this marionette will be unceremoniously returned to his box.

This. He's just as much of a puppet for the elite as Yingluck is for her brother. But some TV members think he's akin to Nelson Mandela!

He's hardly Mandela or anything resembling leadership on this scale.

He's obviously not running the show too, as is usual with Thailand.

My point was that whatever Suthep says about his future intentions is to be taken with a grain of salt.

If one wishes to see him as a puppet, then he'll do whatever the one pulling his strings orders.

If he's got some leeway, he will make sure he's got his claws in, one way or another.

His promises got nothing to do with it.

[soalbundy]

Funny that from afar it always looks different. Only Royalists and the South? Ask people in Surin, Khampaengphet, Chai nat, etc.etc. what they'll be voting next time around.... That's all middle Thailand. Now after the showdown at Trat I don't think there'll be many reds in Trat and Chantaburi left. So the line should now read: The Sae Khu family supported by the North and North East. And the Democrats by the middle, South and Bangkok.(Mind you: I don't say Suthep) Why did you think the farmers begged the Democrats to join the next election? Because they're not going to vote for them?

You really do have a fanatical obsession with the "Sae Khu" name, don't you?

I don't know, what is fanatical about calling it what it is. It's their real name. As I always say and ask people: Name ONE person in Government who is full Thai, not Chinese. Everyone is speechless. That shouldn't be able to happen. It is exactly the Chinese "Elite" that's keeping the farmers poor. They are the middle men. Wished people would see this. If they'd be cut out the farmers could finally start building a future.

Yeah fill parliament with full Thais and get real chaos,a full Thai couldn't even manage a sweet shop outside a school yard and make a profit.

[Morch]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in.

6 months into this and blood thirsty freaks like yourself are still willing on a military intervention and the inevitable civil war to follow.

Either you dont live here or your just very naive. Perhaps both. Sad.

Actually the longer the military stays out of this, the more likelihood of a civil war, besides the last time the military intervened don't remember that triggering a civil war, and I live here and was here the last time the military intervened.

so how's that for being naïve ?...

There can be arguments for and against the Army stepping in being a catalyst for escalated violence.

I wouldn't know that this time is exactly the same as previous instances, conditions do change some from time to time.

Doesn't look like the Army is too keen to get into this mess, at least if there isn't an agreed upon bailing out for them.

If there were open hostilities, then the Army would surely intervene, right now it looks like they're pushing for an arrangement of sorts, while keeping the coup option live (as "last resort"? as "stick"?).

[wandasloan]

We are generating our own fear regarding civil war. It wouldn't happen. First before it can happen, the army will step in. The UDD knows the peril of direct confrontation and they can see that the situation is just lots of smoke but really no fire. The PDRC numbers are small for the CAPO to control and they don't have the support of their courts allies. When the arrest come after the court approved the warrants, the hired guards will have the gumption to offer little resistance. These are hired guns that are not loyal supporters and unlikely to put their life at risk for 500B. If CAPO successfully isoated Suterp and his core leaders, it is games over unless Suterp hide behind his supporters.

I agree with you in part, except I'm more cautious. One never should say "never".

But yes, Thailand isn't close to civil war. People who cry "civil war" are like people crying "tsunami" in Bangkok. It's not on the list of "most likely events to prepare for".

Another thing I don't agree with at all. The army doesn't "step in" as some sort of peacekeeper in a civil war as you intimate. The army does not prevent a civil war. The army is a full-on belligerent in a civil war, involved from start to finish, taking and dishing out heavy casualties. THAT is a civil war. That's why they don't call it a "civil disturbance with some punching and four grenade launchers".

Civil wars are exactly like cross-border wars. They only thing that makes they "civil" (heh, great word for a war) is they are contained within one country's borders. But they are real wars. They build up, they require arms, they require troops and training. Civil wars aren't 75 people in red shirts running through Bangkok alleys and civil wars aren't 82 people in yellow shirts closing off two expressways. Civil wars are REAL wars, only usually they are worse, with more casualties and more motivated fighters.

There could easily be more violence than we have today, as horrible as that is. But that wouldn't be civil war, or anything like it. A civil war is a full-out, real war and it is far down a long, long road in Thailand, if it is there at all.

.

[wandasloan]

There can be arguments for and against the Army stepping in being a catalyst for escalated violence.

I wouldn't know that this time is exactly the same as previous instances, conditions do change some from time to time.

Doesn't look like the Army is too keen to get into this mess, at least if there isn't an agreed upon bailing out for them.

If there were open hostilities, then the Army would surely intervene, right now it looks like they're pushing for an arrangement of sorts, while keeping the coup option live (as "last resort"? as "stick"?).

People keep saying this. I understand it but it's wrong and doesn't understand the situation.

"If there were open hostilities" - the army would not "intervene", because the army would already be directly involved in them.

This is one of the reasons - and an excellent one in my view - that the army is quiet. It fears/shuns hostilities. There are other reasons, but this is one of the top ones. It is not possible that there would be "open hostilities" WITHOUT army involvement. Even 2010 should prove that.

So many people here look at the army as if it has peacemaking ability. It doesn't. If the army acts (as opposed to not acting, as now) it is screwed no matter what it does. It will be seen as taking sides, and that will touch off everything AGAINST the army and the killing will start just as it did when the army "intervened" in April 2010 and again in May 2010.

Doing nothing (as now) is the army's only alternative to deep, deadly, blood-spilling "intervention".

I have sympathy for the army. It is told to train and equip in order to find, fix and destroy the enemy. And it does that, and then all of a sudden, "Oh, hey, soldier-boy, we need you to separate these two hooligans fighting. But don't hurt anyone".

It has no reference for that. It only can find, fix and destroy some of the hooligans. Kill 90 or 100 Thai people and end the 2010 uprising. Well, it works, but it's not what you want. The only FAULT of the army is to puff itself up as it has done so very often in Thailand and pretend it can keep peace, solve problems, run the government, etc. It can't do any of that because it is untrained, unequipped and unprepared for that. It can't do that any more than the techie geeks and whiz kids at Nectec can defend the borders, and for the same reason - it's not their job..

.

[Morch]

There can be arguments for and against the Army stepping in being a catalyst for escalated violence.

I wouldn't know that this time is exactly the same as previous instances, conditions do change some from time to time.

Doesn't look like the Army is too keen to get into this mess, at least if there isn't an agreed upon bailing out for them.

If there were open hostilities, then the Army would surely intervene, right now it looks like they're pushing for an arrangement of sorts, while keeping the coup option live (as "last resort"? as "stick"?).

People keep saying this. I understand it but it's wrong and doesn't understand the situation.

"If there were open hostilities" - the army would not "intervene", because the army would already be directly involved in them.

This is one of the reasons - and an excellent one in my view - that the army is quiet. It fears/shuns hostilities. There are other reasons, but this is one of the top ones. It is not possible that there would be "open hostilities" WITHOUT army involvement. Even 2010 should prove that.

So many people here look at the army as if it has peacemaking ability. It doesn't. If the army acts (as opposed to not acting, as now) it is screwed no matter what it does. It will be seen as taking sides, and that will touch off everything AGAINST the army and the killing will start just as it did when the army "intervened" in April 2010 and again in May 2010.

Doing nothing (as now) is the army's only alternative to deep, deadly, blood-spilling "intervention".

I have sympathy for the army. It is told to train and equip in order to find, fix and destroy the enemy. And it does that, and then all of a sudden, "Oh, hey, soldier-boy, we need you to separate these two hooligans fighting. But don't hurt anyone".

It has no reference for that. It only can find, fix and destroy some of the hooligans. Kill 90 or 100 Thai people and end the 2010 uprising. Well, it works, but it's not what you want. The only FAULT of the army is to puff itself up as it has done so very often in Thailand and pretend it can keep peace, solve problems, run the government, etc. It can't do any of that because it is untrained, unequipped and unprepared for that. It can't do that any more than the techie geeks and whiz kids at Nectec can defend the borders, and for the same reason - it's not their job..

.

I think that given the stakes, the availability of arms on both sides, and the ongoing rhetoric - a bad enough incident initiated by

a few nutters, causing high number of casualties, could get this mess even messier. Something like that, which could be followed by attempts at retribution could force the Army's hand.

That the Army taking over might lead to further bloodshed is possible, yes. Especially if things are not resolved very quickly so that they can hand the ball back to someone. I don't think that the Army totally lacks peacekeeping capability, as long as it will be kept short and ends with some clear notion of who is in charge. Then again, that's not an very likely to be achievable, so overall - better not go there.

If the Army will have to face demonstrators, as it did in 2010, it would be a re-run of same, and usually re-makes are bad versions of originals. Again, better not to go there, and I don't think the Army is interested.

Back to the first part of my post - DSI and CAPO talking about a SWAT operation to take the PDRC leadership, could lead to the

very same thing, if it goes wrong. I have some doubts regarding their ability to carry out such a complicated coordinated operation smoothly.

[tullynagardy]

If both sides aren't willing to compromise, then the only way out of this would be for the military to step in.

6 months into this and blood thirsty freaks like yourself are still willing on a military intervention and the inevitable civil war to follow.

Either you dont live here or your just very naive. Perhaps both. Sad.

Actually the longer the military stays out of this, the more likelihood of a civil war, besides the last time the military intervened don't remember that triggering a civil war, and I live here and was here the last time the military intervened.

so how's that for being naïve ?...

Naive as it doesnt understand the power struggle thats really behind this relating to an event i cant talk about it.

So sad most on here cant even fathom what is happening around them.

[Eric Loh]

We are generating our own fear regarding civil war. It wouldn't happen. First before it can happen, the army will step in. The UDD knows the peril of direct confrontation and they can see that the situation is just lots of smoke but really no fire. The PDRC numbers are small for the CAPO to control and they don't have the support of their courts allies. When the arrest come after the court approved the warrants, the hired guards will have the gumption to offer little resistance. These are hired guns that are not loyal supporters and unlikely to put their life at risk for 500B. If CAPO successfully isoated Suterp and his core leaders, it is games over unless Suterp hide behind his supporters.

I agree with you in part, except I'm more cautious. One never should say "never".

But yes, Thailand isn't close to civil war. People who cry "civil war" are like people crying "tsunami" in Bangkok. It's not on the list of "most likely events to prepare for".

Another thing I don't agree with at all. The army doesn't "step in" as some sort of peacekeeper in a civil war as you intimate. The army does not prevent a civil war. The army is a full-on belligerent in a civil war, involved from start to finish, taking and dishing out heavy casualties. THAT is a civil war. That's why they don't call it a "civil disturbance with some punching and four grenade launchers".

Civil wars are exactly like cross-border wars. They only thing that makes they "civil" (heh, great word for a war) is they are contained within one country's borders. But they are real wars. They build up, they require arms, they require troops and training. Civil wars aren't 75 people in red shirts running through Bangkok alleys and civil wars aren't 82 people in yellow shirts closing off two expressways. Civil wars are REAL wars, only usually they are worse, with more casualties and more motivated fighters.

There could easily be more violence than we have today, as horrible as that is. But that wouldn't be civil war, or anything like it. A civil war is a full-out, real war and it is far down a long, long road in Thailand, if it is there at all.

.

What I meant by army stepping in is that the army chiefs will mediate before matters get out of hand or the army gets in between the two opposing sides. I don't think Prayuth will take sides when his retirement is just round the corner. Too much to risk for him.

What he is doing right is that he is allowing the police to take the lead which I feel is more than adequate to deal with the PDRC. CAPO strategy of periodical announcement of arrest is clever as it not only sap the energy of anticipation; it also allow them to chose the time when the guards are done.

There won't be a civil war even if Suterp snatch power and announce a parallel government as it will be Bangkok centric but seriously Suterp is too smart to carry out such foolish act. As I said, the PDRC is small and the guards are hired and can be neutralized by CAPO.

[h90]

I agree with Blue Nose Codger. Thailand should never accept Suthep as leader. He is not even a political party. In it for himself. As is Jatuporn and the likes of them. Electoral laws need to be changed, then elections. And I like the pictures you posted. They reminded me of something.

Let me see.... Aaaah yep got it! What a stunning resemblance.

why do you all seem to think Suthep wants to be the leader

He has quoted many times he is only the flag ship for the Thai people to protest

and has no wish to return to Thai Politics

is it because this puts pressure on your Hero Thaksin

or you lot can all read fortune balls

What makes you so confident Suthep will hold true to his promises?

And what is to stop him from running the show by proxy? His step-son will still be around, so will other cronies.

Suthep isn't running the show and never has been. He is doing the bidding for people with way, way more power and privilege than he has. When he has served his useful purpose this marionette will be unceremoniously returned to his box.

who are these?

Names please.

[Piichai]

We are generating our own fear regarding civil war. It wouldn't happen. First before it can happen, the army will step in. The UDD knows the peril of direct confrontation and they can see that the situation is just lots of smoke but really no fire. The PDRC numbers are small for the CAPO to control and they don't have the support of their courts allies. When the arrest come after the court approved the warrants, the hired guards will have the gumption to offer little resistance. These are hired guns that are not loyal supporters and unlikely to put their life at risk for 500B. If CAPO successfully isoated Suterp and his core leaders, it is games over unless Suterp hide behind his supporters.

I agree with you in part, except I'm more cautious. One never should say "never".

But yes, Thailand isn't close to civil war. People who cry "civil war" are like people crying "tsunami" in Bangkok. It's not on the list of "most likely events to prepare for".

Another thing I don't agree with at all. The army doesn't "step in" as some sort of peacekeeper in a civil war as you intimate. The army does not prevent a civil war. The army is a full-on belligerent in a civil war, involved from start to finish, taking and dishing out heavy casualties. THAT is a civil war. That's why they don't call it a "civil disturbance with some punching and four grenade launchers".

Civil wars are exactly like cross-border wars. They only thing that makes they "civil" (heh, great word for a war) is they are contained within one country's borders. But they are real wars. They build up, they require arms, they require troops and training. Civil wars aren't 75 people in red shirts running through Bangkok alleys and civil wars aren't 82 people in yellow shirts closing off two expressways. Civil wars are REAL wars, only usually they are worse, with more casualties and more motivated fighters.

There could easily be more violence than we have today, as horrible as that is. But that wouldn't be civil war, or anything like it. A civil war is a full-out, real war and it is far down a long, long road in Thailand, if it is there at all.

.

What I meant by army stepping in is that the army chiefs will mediate before matters get out of hand or the army gets in between the two opposing sides. I don't think Prayuth will take sides when his retirement is just round the corner. Too much to risk for him.

What he is doing right is that he is allowing the police to take the lead which I feel is more than adequate to deal with the PDRC. CAPO strategy of periodical announcement of arrest is clever as it not only sap the energy of anticipation; it also allow them to chose the time when the guards are done.

There won't be a civil war even if Suterp snatch power and announce a parallel government as it will be Bangkok centric but seriously Suterp is too smart to carry out such foolish act. As I said, the PDRC is small and the guards are hired and can be neutralized by CAPO.

Surprised a moderator hasn't talked to you yet about Suthep's name.

Must be very busy these days.

[rebelplatoon]

Would be hard to be racial being a "half" myself.

Why would it be hard? Truth is, you already made it seem easy as pie. Anyone, literally anyone, can be a racist. Some racists are racists because they hate themselves. Struth. Lots of halfies in this world. Some of them are racists.

You, specifically, are or you aren't, and your posts make it seem you are. Since I don't know you, I don't KNOW you are one, I only know what you wrote. If you don't want others to think you might be racist, consider what you wrote. If you don't care, at least respect me enough not to pull that "I'm not pure white" card.

PLEASE don't pull that innocence card on me. "Halfies" isn't just a word to me, sir. I know a little bit more than you think I know about that. Maybe more than you KNOW about that. That isn't an appeal to authority, not around me. You're a human being, same possible flaws as every other human being.

And please do not try to translate Thai for me. I speak read and write Thai.

I did not translate at all, for me or you. I said you misused the common term for "amaart", nothing to do with translation. And I'm right, you did. Most people use the TRANSLATION "elite" but you misused that term. And still do.

I presume you will understand when I now say I actually wish I could engage you in this discussion of amaart-elite, but I won't have a public discussion about it. You actually sound an interesting person. But this subject is off limits for meaningful discussion, which you obviously are capable of. I'm sure you understand.

Finally. About politics. You only know what I wrote. But you made up a lot of stuff about me. I wrote not one post, not a WORD that you now attribute to me. You didn't quote me on it because you can't because I never wrote it, and in fact would not write it. Not about Thaksin, parties, democracy, red shirts, Democrats, Jatuporn, Abhisit, Suthep, or any of it. You wrote everything you say I believe, and I wrote none of it. And let's just say you are not at all clueful about my politics.

So that's one of your imperfections right there. In fact, I am way, WAY closer to your position than you have chosen - chosen - to believe, and so posted that right today.

You should be ASKING what my position is instead of telling me. Since you spent time and quite a lot of Ascii telling others what you believe I believe, I guess you care about it. But you are not even close. You are way off the mark.

Your final paragraph is interesting. My own view is that there are really only two choices - the main parties will talk and reach a mutual agreement.

Or Thailand will just become another Philippines of the 1970, descending into unresolvable political madness, becoming one of those "basket cases" economically and losing respect all the way. Then, way, WAY down the road, one of the parties will win, almost certainly what we now call the red shirts, and then Thailand will spend the next 50 years trying to catch up to the lost years. Again, something like the Philippines.

Suthep is a corrupt old fool. As a party bagman he was fantastically good. But he is irredeemable and unhelpful at least since February. He is way out of his league now. He is probably the worst street protest leader in Thai history, and there have been some bad ones before him. Jatuporn isn't a political leader of any type.

The current state that Suthep believes he will win EVERYTHING and the Pheu Thai/red people think they will win EVERYTHING is ridiculous. Suthep and all his possible allies together couldn't even win an election whether in July or two years down the road, and their so-called reform is not serious, just an excuse for yet another velvet coup. Pheu Thai/Thaksin/whatever can ONLY win an election, but can't win respect or stability or credible political leadership and standing, and thus only keep the country in a constant state of tension and political instability. Bridging these two incredibly weak sides will take a lot of skill and leadership of the sort that simply hasn't appeared for the past 10 years or more.

There are very smart people around. Abhisit has some, some are even on Suthep's side, and lord knows there are brains galore in the red brigades. These smart people (I'm not including Abhisit or Suthep personally in this) should be smart enough to be calling each other and meeting for coffee or maybe scotch and cigars, and starting to thrash it out. Because if they don't, we're going to need a bigger basket.

So now, you actually KNOW a little bit of what I think, instead of making it up out of wholecloth. Feel free to attack the REAL things I wrote, not what was in your previous fantasy. Thank you.

And if you cease the racist references, that would also be thank-you.

Would be hard to be racial being a "half" myself. And please do not try to translate Thai for me. I speak read and write Thai. Once again: I hold upstanding the Amaart are the Shinawatra's. And YES it has to do with me. And probably not with you. People from all walks of life are being "leaned" upon and threatened. Especially come election time. Don't think you have ever noticed that yourself. But simple to see: Political parties that are not from the Taksin clan cannot even come to the North and North East, that is a democracy right? The fact that you believe all the red rhetoric nonsense that it is a struggle between the Amaart and the Thaat is just a misguided point of view. It's two political sides trying to gain power. Both need to let go a bit and find common ground. Abhisit has been trying to do that by announcing that he wouldn't join elections.

I have been posting on several occasions that a way out can be found and how it can be done. Both sides are too stubborn.

Exactly because of people like you believing all the rhetoric. Suthep is not right, Jatuporn is not right. Two of the largest political parties need to sit down and talk. Before it gets out of hand. Sure I won't find you on the barricades when your inflammatory remarks find their goal.

Again. others took them as racial. I didn't. Nothing wrong with being Chinese. Most important is the way out. As to the Ammart comment, the reason it is being translated like that is the Foreign Press. Who are in my opinion quite far removed from reality. The Ammart (as in the original meaning) are there but much less powerful than people think. It is the ELITE that is running the country and sorry to say, to me that's the Shin's and their likes, mainly.

Money Talks. Alas.