Senate: Thailand needs interim government

[Morch]

In reality there should be very little need for much or indeed any reform process before an election can be held.

All that will be needed is for the present law to be enforced and an agreement and commitment by all parties to abide by reforms prepared by a reform group and taken to the people in a referendum.

With probably a shortened term of 1 year or 18 months then after reforms are put in place another general election.

If I understand correctly the country already has laws that ensure free and fair elections without intimidation, threats or bribery.

There is also section 102 of the constitution which stipulates who is eligible to stand for office, this appears to have been , in the past, ignored.

There is little point in holding an election under the present environment where sections of the country are not allowed to express their dissent against those in charge let alone vote for other than the party or candidate they are told to vote for.

A glaring example of this is the recent statement by the boss of the association of village chiefs that some village chiefs have been dismissed by provincial governors for openly supporting the opposition, that is those in opposition to PT.

Political reform or enforcement of the law regarding free and fair elections is only a small part of the reform needed in this country.

Tell me reds, how many of you believe the education system, the health system, the police, the justice system, transport and almost everything around you is working to maximum efficiency ?

Or could all these things use a revamp, a reform.

What about corruption, freedom of speech, of the press, the LM law even, if what I read is correct His Majesty has suggested changes to it.

Do you believe that if all these things are left up to whoever wins an election that meaningful changes will be made, after all politicians have had chances over the last umpteen years to make changes and have they ?

Bears repeating. +1

Robynz, I disagree. You would be committing the electorate to approve whatever the 'reform group' wants to call reform.

The most telling thing here is that Abhisit, Suthep, Surachai etc. all refuse to specify what they mean by reform, yet we can see from Wikileaks, that the 2008 plan was to make the Cabinet (i.e. the government) appointed rather than elected.

Leaving only the Parliament as a body representing the voters. That would be a disaster, a recipe for the collapse of society, Thailand turned into Syria.

So Abhisit made a reform 'roadmap' where a committee would write a reform document within 30 days, in another week, the 30 days are up. So where's his document stating what reforms? Of course they can never tell the voters they want to do away with the vote! So their document can never be written till they grab power and put in their appointed government and then control the military.

In essence you want to appoint a government, and change the constitution to ensure that you always appoint the government, and the electorate never votes in the government.

To do that you need control of the military to shoot the angry voters, and that in turn needs control of the defense ministry and the government.

The only power you seem to have right now is the two appointees you put into the Electoral Commission, 2 days after Yingluk called for an election. They have consistently worked to block the vote. But that really just underlines how corrupt the appointment system is. If you can block an election by appointing a couple of operatives, you can defeat the democracy, and ignore the tens of millions of Thai people.

The obvious question is who do you propose as PM? You haven't even named the leader of this new Syria you propose. You're supposed to rally around this single man, and yet you can't put forward a name, because even your corrupt lot, can't rally around a single man.

Thailand is nowhere near being anything like Syria, and most probably never will.

The domestic conflicts and rifts amongst Thais are totally different, do not run as deep and are not fueled by the same

motives.

If you truly believe that Thailand is about to become a new Syria your two best choices are either to liquidate and evacuate,

or to see Somchai about an M-16.

[fasteddie]

Do not blame the protesters for blocking the vote!

What the basic human right to vote ?

I don't want to live in your world!

Who did you reply to ???? why not post properly using the original poster ?? again you did this and cut out the bits that suit, you think posters do not know your game ???

No elections should take place until all the guilty are rounded up and punished for diabolical governing.

Your world is not genuine, it is undemocratic. The said government are guilty of abnormal governing--this is your world ???

The basic right to vote---as it should be is when the country is restored to some sort of normality. Then the Thai people will feel free to vote without any intimidation---NOT UNTIL normality is restored. You are unbelievable--in your world.

And in your world the losers in elections get to whine and bleat and stamp their feet, take over government buildings, attack and murder policemen, collude with bent senators, install puppet PM's because you say you know best, because you say poor people shouldn't have a say in government, what do they know? Buffaloes!

You are a fascist dictator-in your world!

[fasteddie]

Do not blame the protesters for blocking the vote!

What the basic human right to vote ?

I don't want to live in your world!

The right to vote is no basic human right

you're damn right it is!

[fasteddie]

no reforms then elections..i think these people who are thai know better than us..correct. it is their country..

but more voting Thais disagree. How can you have reforms before an election? Who will make these reforms? What legitimacy will they have?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the botched February 2nd elections more Thais decided not to vote than to vote, and many of those that voted one third voted blank or invalidated their ballots. So your "more voting Thais disagree" has no basis in facts.

OK so let's have free and fair, unhindered by violent thugs, Elections! Let's settle it.

[Longtooth]

Did anyone think that elections is the way to have a new government? The people have a right to select who represents them. Elections than reforms than new elections is the only way to go.

This will be than: Elections before no reforms and than new Elections without reforms...

...and then new protests without resolutions, etc., etc., etc., etc......

[newcomer71]

The country definitely needs a government. Elections on the short term do not seem possible. Then yes, the senate should play a central part in installing a temp government. Or perhaps the King.

A new pm should be one acceptable to all sides. My favorite would be Surin. Someone else suggested Prayuth. Anyone else have a constructive idea?

It's more than evident that both sides involved in this mess (PDRC and PTP/UDD) just need to do their ways, so as you say an interim government is the only solution in sight.

I also see favorably Surin or Prayuth PM, but the most important thing is ALL sides must be involved in writing reforms before elections. Only in this case can ease the tense social conflict and the hatred.

[espinoza]

Before I belive the people will accept an unelected government pointed out by the senate the senate has to kick out the appointed senators. Without this there will never be peace and order in Thailand.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tim armstrong]

Its a failed state. It will continue to fail . Until Thais understand democracy.

Nonsense - the world's no 1 or 2 biggest rice exporter, No 4 in tin, rubber, etc can hardly be a 'failed state'. Who invented this arrogant term anyway - and against what standard. Thailand is going through a painful but certain, period of change. Those of us who come from western countries and live here are lucky not to really have to live with grinding poverty, jealousy and corruption. In the 13 years I've lived here the baht has hardly shifted against most currencies and foreign reserves remain high.

[binjalin]

what "reforms"? where's the list? the schedule? the timeline? this is used as an excuse not to adhere to democracy

[geriatrickid]

Did anyone think that elections is the way to have a new government? The people have a right to select who represents them. Elections than reforms than new elections is the only way to go.

Didn't the previous government claimed in their election promises that they would reform after the election.

The only reform they actually applied was the return of the passport to a fugitive convicted criminal.

Any attempt at reform was blocked by the usual gang of despots, of which the gang of 40 senators featured prominently.

[geriatrickid]

I have to confess that even though I'm farang, I usually don't bother reading most of Scamper's posts (too long, preaching, repetitive, political rhetoric - and for being walls of text), goes for similar posters of both persuasions. Wife sometimes reads here for amusement, but not as often now that she got the general lay of the land.

As for Democrats vote canvassing up country - there is some truth in the notion that not all areas might be safe. Then again,

this has also got to do with local connections (always true) and timing. The latter is more crucial, I think, as politicians in general

make an appearance either before elections or if there's some infrastructure inauguration (or other photo op). Might work if one's

party is both incumbent and generally the color of choice, but if you want to win their hearts and minds - got to take it one step

at a time and put in a lot of mileage. The Democrats lack the patient long term approach needed.

Before Suthep caused the schism, the Democrats were beginning to make some inroads in the NE. My friend who comes from a reliably PTP family was open to the Democrats. He had lived and worked in Bangkok I know of people from Issan who live and work on Phuket and support the Democrats. (If they vote they must go back to Issan.) Now, my friend has negative sentiment. His friends from the village are more hard core than ever. I honestly believe that the opposition parties would have picked up a few percentage points of the popular vote had Suthep not rubbed emotions raw.

[ginjag]

Do not blame the protesters for blocking the vote!

What the basic human right to vote ?

I don't want to live in your world!

Who did you reply to ???? why not post properly using the original poster ?? again you did this and cut out the bits that suit, you think posters do not know your game ???

No elections should take place until all the guilty are rounded up and punished for diabolical governing.

Your world is not genuine, it is undemocratic. The said government are guilty of abnormal governing--this is your world ???

The basic right to vote---as it should be is when the country is restored to some sort of normality. Then the Thai people will feel free to vote without any intimidation---NOT UNTIL normality is restored. You are unbelievable--in your world.

And in your world the losers in elections get to whine and bleat and stamp their feet, take over government buildings, attack and murder policemen, collude with bent senators, install puppet PM's because you say you know best, because you say poor people shouldn't have a say in government, what do they know? Buffaloes!

You are a fascist dictator-in your world!

You are a liar, My posts do not give me a colour, but you fail to read this--it doe's not fit your agenda --dial--defend a defunct lousy government full of corruption, and you attack me ??? you have to have had some sort of brainwashing to support corruption, follow the rice money---follow the water management money--follow the school tablet scam--------you love to defend for what. you sound very easy going and level headed.

I am better being a critic of any regime, than defending a regime.

[ginjag]

I have to confess that even though I'm farang, I usually don't bother reading most of Scamper's posts (too long, preaching, repetitive, political rhetoric - and for being walls of text), goes for similar posters of both persuasions. Wife sometimes reads here for amusement, but not as often now that she got the general lay of the land.

As for Democrats vote canvassing up country - there is some truth in the notion that not all areas might be safe. Then again,

this has also got to do with local connections (always true) and timing. The latter is more crucial, I think, as politicians in general

make an appearance either before elections or if there's some infrastructure inauguration (or other photo op). Might work if one's

party is both incumbent and generally the color of choice, but if you want to win their hearts and minds - got to take it one step

at a time and put in a lot of mileage. The Democrats lack the patient long term approach needed.

Before Suthep caused the schism, the Democrats were beginning to make some inroads in the NE. My friend who comes from a reliably PTP family was open to the Democrats. He had lived and worked in Bangkok I know of people from Issan who live and work on Phuket and support the Democrats. (If they vote they must go back to Issan.) Now, my friend has negative sentiment. His friends from the village are more hard core than ever. I honestly believe that the opposition parties would have picked up a few percentage points of the popular vote had Suthep not rubbed emotions raw.

Funny for certain posts you always find some local friends who turn against the DEMS--it is always MY FRIEND bla bla---and from a reliable family ???

Posters have noted this again GK heard it all before---denial pro red poster, prove otherwise.

[ginjag]

what "reforms"? where's the list? the schedule? the timeline? this is used as an excuse not to adhere to democracy

Ask your party where they lost them because in their pre election promise they were to get reforms underway.

But the idea was lost somewhere because of the hurry to get Thaksin back and pardoned----Amnesty. Where are the PTPs new reforms, NO HAB.

[Morch]

I have to confess that even though I'm farang, I usually don't bother reading most of Scamper's posts (too long, preaching, repetitive, political rhetoric - and for being walls of text), goes for similar posters of both persuasions. Wife sometimes reads here for amusement, but not as often now that she got the general lay of the land.

As for Democrats vote canvassing up country - there is some truth in the notion that not all areas might be safe. Then again,

this has also got to do with local connections (always true) and timing. The latter is more crucial, I think, as politicians in general

make an appearance either before elections or if there's some infrastructure inauguration (or other photo op). Might work if one's

party is both incumbent and generally the color of choice, but if you want to win their hearts and minds - got to take it one step

at a time and put in a lot of mileage. The Democrats lack the patient long term approach needed.

Before Suthep caused the schism, the Democrats were beginning to make some inroads in the NE. My friend who comes from a reliably PTP family was open to the Democrats. He had lived and worked in Bangkok I know of people from Issan who live and work on Phuket and support the Democrats. (If they vote they must go back to Issan.) Now, my friend has negative sentiment. His friends from the village are more hard core than ever. I honestly believe that the opposition parties would have picked up a few percentage points of the popular vote had Suthep not rubbed emotions raw.

I don't think that they were getting any massive support or anything close to that. For many people both Abhisit and Suthep

are tainted as a result of the 2010 events, and this won't go away that easy.

The earlier demonstrations could have netted them some support, or at least make voters hesitate before choosing PTP, but

then they shifted the focus of the protest, and dragged it too long without decisive results. The Amnesty Bill, Corruption, the government's economic policies and mega projects could have been a tool for reaching out to the other side.

Not that the Democrats can't - they had some decent plans (or planned policies) when they were in power, but they have

terrible marketing and no stamina.

[Fat Haggis]

I totally agree I was also n favour of sutheps original movement of anti corruption as well as wondering why he was championing it when he was just as corrupt in the past!!

I stopped supporting him when his PDRC took it upon themselves to blockade and disrupt those that wanted to vote and from there on it seemed that his goals changed and he became more radicalised.

I always thought Abhisit would have been the right choice IF it was up to me as he seems more level headed but lacked the moral fibre to stand up and tell Suthep to tone it down. But I'm still views as a red sympathiser as I live in a red village who I might add have NEVER discussed their political stance in my company, they prefer Leo over politics !!

I just don't have the years behind me to have made a call about the PTP government and to be honest as as guest here for the past 2 years they never caused me any grief or hardship so pretty hard to criticise them in all fairness, the rice scheme didn't effect me or my Thai family, the flood stuff before my time too.

I base my opinions and views on the things I've observed in the past 2 years that made the news in one way or the other.

[Robby nz]

In reality there should be very little need for much or indeed any reform process before an election can be held.

All that will be needed is for the present law to be enforced and an agreement and commitment by all parties to abide by reforms prepared by a reform group and taken to the people in a referendum.

With probably a shortened term of 1 year or 18 months then after reforms are put in place another general election.

If I understand correctly the country already has laws that ensure free and fair elections without intimidation, threats or bribery.

There is also section 102 of the constitution which stipulates who is eligible to stand for office, this appears to have been , in the past, ignored.

There is little point in holding an election under the present environment where sections of the country are not allowed to express their dissent against those in charge let alone vote for other than the party or candidate they are told to vote for.

A glaring example of this is the recent statement by the boss of the association of village chiefs that some village chiefs have been dismissed by provincial governors for openly supporting the opposition, that is those in opposition to PT.

Political reform or enforcement of the law regarding free and fair elections is only a small part of the reform needed in this country.

Tell me reds, how many of you believe the education system, the health system, the police, the justice system, transport and almost everything around you is working to maximum efficiency ?

Or could all these things use a revamp, a reform.

What about corruption, freedom of speech, of the press, the LM law even, if what I read is correct His Majesty has suggested changes to it.

Do you believe that if all these things are left up to whoever wins an election that meaningful changes will be made, after all politicians have had chances over the last umpteen years to make changes and have they ?

Bears repeating. +1

Robynz, I disagree. You would be committing the electorate to approve whatever the 'reform group' wants to call reform.

The most telling thing here is that Abhisit, Suthep, Surachai etc. all refuse to specify what they mean by reform, yet we can see from Wikileaks, that the 2008 plan was to make the Cabinet (i.e. the government) appointed rather than elected.

Leaving only the Parliament as a body representing the voters. That would be a disaster, a recipe for the collapse of society, Thailand turned into Syria.

So Abhisit made a reform 'roadmap' where a committee would write a reform document within 30 days, in another week, the 30 days are up. So where's his document stating what reforms? Of course they can never tell the voters they want to do away with the vote! So their document can never be written till they grab power and put in their appointed government and then control the military.

In essence you want to appoint a government, and change the constitution to ensure that you always appoint the government, and the electorate never votes in the government.

To do that you need control of the military to shoot the angry voters, and that in turn needs control of the defense ministry and the government.

The only power you seem to have right now is the two appointees you put into the Electoral Commission, 2 days after Yingluk called for an election. They have consistently worked to block the vote. But that really just underlines how corrupt the appointment system is. If you can block an election by appointing a couple of operatives, you can defeat the democracy, and ignore the tens of millions of Thai people.

The obvious question is who do you propose as PM? You haven't even named the leader of this new Syria you propose. You're supposed to rally around this single man, and yet you can't put forward a name, because even your corrupt lot, can't rally around a single man.

For a start I cant detail every little thing for that would be up to those who are "elected" to the task

You would be committing the electorate to approve whatever the 'reform group' wants to call reform.

There would be no commitment to approve anything in a referendum which would be held not just as 'do you approve of reforms' but as a detailed list of reforms in every sector with a choice of accepting or rejecting each sector and a section for comments.

Whats wrong with committing an elected parliament to reforms that have been sanctioned by the majority of people in a referendum. Majority, Democracy, right.

Oh dear another one who never took any notice when Abhisit presented his outline for reforms, and why bring his and Suthepe name in anyway.

Try to think about the reforms PT has suggested, wont take you long.

Cant use anymore quotes so;

Leaving only the Parliament as a body representing the voters. That would be a disaster, a recipe for the collapse of society, Thailand turned into Syria.

Don't get that one, parliament has always been the representative of the people consisting of the elected MP's and list MP's. There is also the Senate which would remain as a check on parliament.

Your next paragraph is just a load of crap that needs no answer

In essence you want to appoint a government, and change the constitution to ensure that you always appoint the government, and the electorate never votes in the government.

Where in my post did I say anything about appointing a Govt ?

In the first sentence : before an election can be held. In the third : another general election. Elections right Democratic Elections.

The only suggestion of appointing a Govt is in your red mind.

The rest of your post is another load of crap.

And incidentally I have no power, I never appointed anyone, I never suggested anyone for PM, only that basic electoral reforms take place before an election to make it free and fair.

You haven't seen fit to answer the questions I asked, only the usual negativity and red twisting of what was written.

So I will ask the questions again, this time try and answer, truthfully, if you know what that means.

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Tell me reds, how many of you believe the education system, the health system, the police, the justice system, transport and almost everything around you is working to maximum efficiency ?

Or could all these things use a revamp, a reform.

What about corruption, freedom of speech, of the press, the LM law even, if what I read is correct His Majesty has suggested changes to it.

Do you believe that if all these things are left up to whoever wins an election that meaningful changes will be made, after all politicians have had chances over the last umpteen years to make changes and have they ?

[geriatrickid]

I have to confess that even though I'm farang, I usually don't bother reading most of Scamper's posts (too long, preaching, repetitive, political rhetoric - and for being walls of text), goes for similar posters of both persuasions. Wife sometimes reads here for amusement, but not as often now that she got the general lay of the land.

As for Democrats vote canvassing up country - there is some truth in the notion that not all areas might be safe. Then again,

this has also got to do with local connections (always true) and timing. The latter is more crucial, I think, as politicians in general

make an appearance either before elections or if there's some infrastructure inauguration (or other photo op). Might work if one's

party is both incumbent and generally the color of choice, but if you want to win their hearts and minds - got to take it one step

at a time and put in a lot of mileage. The Democrats lack the patient long term approach needed.

Before Suthep caused the schism, the Democrats were beginning to make some inroads in the NE. My friend who comes from a reliably PTP family was open to the Democrats. He had lived and worked in Bangkok I know of people from Issan who live and work on Phuket and support the Democrats. (If they vote they must go back to Issan.) Now, my friend has negative sentiment. His friends from the village are more hard core than ever. I honestly believe that the opposition parties would have picked up a few percentage points of the popular vote had Suthep not rubbed emotions raw.

Funny for certain posts you always find some local friends who turn against the DEMS--it is always MY FRIEND bla bla---and from a reliable family ???

Posters have noted this again GK heard it all before---denial pro red poster, prove otherwise.

Nice display of paranoia. In this particular case, my friend was no fan of the PTP and wanted to give another party a chance. The Suthep situation has caused him to resent the whole political system. And yes, his family are strong PTP supporters, except perhaps for his sister who lives and works in Bangkok and is living with a mango. The turning off and tuning out reaction is common in the Thai demographic of 25-40 year olds. Perhaps if you had some Thai friends that were employed in various sectors you would see that. There is no denial except from you in respect to the damage Suthep has caused the Democrats. If you don't want to believe that there is no negative impact from the Suthep adventure, fine, go right ahead. I don't have anything to prove, because anyone who has actual Thai friends between the ages of 25 and 40 will tell you that people are fed up, angry and disappointed in the political process of Thailand. I find it incredible that you would twist an observation into some sort of conspiracy attempt.

[fab4]

We and You separates the legitimate posters on TVF, Your rant is for what ??? If you read my posts I Do not pick a colour only post to be a critic of lousy governing.

I could not care less about if my opinion is valid or not-as we all on TVF discuss points on Topics given.

If you hate the topics or despise comments there are other forums to go on--I post on near most of topic not only on political ones unlike some that do.

If I want to waste my time on TVF it is MY choice. Struggling with my identity at 73 ---again I stand for no colour, so get it right. ps. did you have a nice night last night ?? or was your milk off this morning.---cheer up Mr. Angry.

If you hate the topics or despise comments there are other forums to go on--I post on near most of topic not only on political ones unlike some that do.

You really should realise that people have a right to choose what they post on. If they wish to post about politics and only politics, who are you to say that's wrong? You should also realise that why it is your right to post on what you regard as lousy governing, others have a right to question your viewpoints.

Your obsessive stance over what subjects people should post on is particularly hypocritical when you don't live up to this ideal situation you portray yourself following - your latest 100 posts - 95 on Politics, 5 on other matters........................