Jatuporn proposes referendum for ending crisis

[webfact]

Jatuporn proposes referendum for ending crisis

BANGKOK: -- Jatuporn Prompan, the chairman of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship, Friday proposed that a national referendum should be held on the political impasse.

Jatuporn said since the next election is unlikely to happen, a referendum should be held on the proposal of Suthep Thaugsuban, the secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee.

Jatuporn said if the referendum finds that most people support Suthep's calls for an interim government to reform the country before the next election, the UDD would stop its campaigns.

But if the referendum finds that the people do not support Suthep's proposal, the PDRC must end its rallies, Jatuporn said.


-- The Nation 2014-05-16

[issanaus]

Interesting - but what is the fine print?

[Piichai]

Acting Senate Speaker Surachai offered to meet with UDD, but they didn't show.

[toybits]

Very Interesting. Take That! Mr. Suthep...

[Robby nz]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

[smutcakes]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

[millwall_fan]

A fair solution to the problem. The Yellows won't accept an election, the Reds won't accept reform before an election, so a referendum to ask the people if they want reform first is a very reasonable compromise.

Unfortunately it won't happen, because the whole raison d'etre of the protests is that the people don't support reform by unelected self-appointed thugs which is why they are trying to bully their way to power.

Edited May 16, 2014 by millwall_fan

[chainarong]

Jatuporn isn't the first one to propose this way out of the impasse, it certainly has its merits, however it will be carried out just like an election , which will result in vote bribing , threats , intimidation and physical harm on voters who do not tow the line with village chiefs and certain community leaders , slippery ,slimy , cunning these PTP, always a alternative motive, not everyone is fooled. .

[fab4]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

[Bluespunk]

Very Interesting. Take That! Mr. Suthep...

I'm betting jatuporn is praying he doesn't.

[Old Man River]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

Now you are putting words in their mouth?

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[smutcakes]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

Now you are putting words in their mouth?

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Putting words in whose mouth?

[Old Man River]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

He cannot be given Royal assent, because there is no legally represented Acting, Caretaker PM to present him. Hence, the political vacuum.

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[Scamper]

Thaksin - and let's face it - this is all about Thaksin - wants reform to have Suthep's face. And yet the whole point of what Surachai is trying to arrange - and has subsequently had greater success than Suthep doing so - is a consensus that will be acceptable to all parties - including the UDD and Pheu Thai party. Thaksin has lost sight of the fundamental argument here - and that is that a reform proposal would be the result of a consensus from all parties. All. Because only a consensus will have the best chance of success. All parties would therefore have a mutually vested and collective interest in reform, and therefore a referendum on reform would not be saddled with the kind of partisan divide that has been so much a part of Thai political life, and that Thaksin wants to see perpetuated. To Thaksin and Jatuporn - who have expressed zero interest in reform - this is a game and not about reform. If Thaksin or Jatuporn were truly interested in reform Jatuporn would have showed up in the Senate informal discussions ( though he could still attend. ) But he has expressed zero interest in it, and has expressed so in the most belligerent and often threatening way. Why ? Because he has zero interest in reform. That's why. The man who called for the dismantling of the independent agencies and the impeachment of all members of the Constitutional Court and their replacement with new judges - has no interest in reform. If Thaksin himself had any interest in reform he could have been present at the Senate informal meetings through skype. He still can. But he doesn't because he has zero interest in reform, as well, outside reform that seeks to solidify his hold on power. Therefore this is also a game to him, as everything else has been a game to Thaksin, with others used as pawns. His idea of reform was an amnesty bill that would have pardoned him and over 25,000 other people convicted of corruption. Thaksin - reform ? Please.

But at least Jatuporn has uttered the word " reform ". So the next step is for him to actually engage in the process now - isn't it ? - so that he will actually be a part of those discussions. Because the reform that will be put before the Thai people - and both Thaksin and Jatuporn know this - will not be " Suthep's " reform - and Surachai has made this clear on more than one occasion. It will be a reform proposal that all parties will be able to live with - and all therefore will have a vested interest in it. And consequently, would have a much greater chance of success, and allowing the country to heal.

Consensus comes from meeting. It comes with discussions.

It comes with talking.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Scamper

[Old Man River]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

Now you are putting words in their mouth?

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Putting words in whose mouth?

The PDRC who you say would reject it without their ever being asked about a referendum. Or did you mean the Dem's. I am not sure as you,didn't separate them.

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[smutcakes]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

Now you are putting words in their mouth?

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Putting words in whose mouth?

The PDRC who you say would reject it without their ever being asked about a referendum. Or did you mean the Dem's. I am not sure as you,didn't separate them.

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The Dems and PDRC are the same, there is no difference.

I dont think its much of a stretch to assume that they dont want a referendum, considering the political party of the protesters have boycotted the last one and threaten to boycott the next, and their militant arm the PDRC have been campaigning on an anti election platform, so i dont think i am stretching it to far saying it would be rejected.

[tullynagardy]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

It reads to me very much like an offer of compromise, somrthing sadly lacking from the PDRC.

When will people like yourself realise this cant be a winner takes all scenario. Compromise is the only way.

[Piichai]

The Dems and PDRC are the same, there is no difference.

I dont think its much of a stretch to assume that they dont want a referendum, considering the political party of the protesters have boycotted the last one and threaten to boycott the next, and their militant arm the PDRC have been campaigning on an anti election platform, so i dont think i am stretching it to far saying it would be rejected.

There's quite a bit of difference; Abhisit has been working with the Senate, while Suthep has been out on the streets. And don't forget Suthep turned his back on Abhisit's framework.

My guess is that there will indeed be a referendum, but all in due time.

1. Framework

2. Reforms

3. Referendum

4. Elections

[Piichai]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

It reads to me very much like an offer of compromise, somrthing sadly lacking from the PDRC.

When will people like yourself realise this cant be a winner takes all scenario. Compromise is the only way.

Guess you missed the story today about Suthep aligning with the Senate.

[fab4]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

He cannot be given Royal assent, because there is no legally represented Acting, Caretaker PM to present him. Hence, the political vacuum.

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People keep saying that, but bearing in mind the leaning of the CC, don't you think the dems or sutheps backers would have demanded a ruling from the CC by now on the alleged illegality of a deputy PM taking over the PM position if the the previous incumbent can no longer carry out his or her duties?

.....................................Precisely

[bkkrox]

First, ALL parties need to agree that there is a need for reforms,thats the easy part. Then the more difficult question will be: what exactly needs to be reformed? The PTP and PDRC have polar opposite ideas about what needs to be reformed.

[rreddin]

Jatuporn isn't the first one to propose this way out of the impasse, it certainly has its merits, however it will be carried out just like an election , which will result in vote bribing , threats , intimidation and physical harm on voters who do not tow the line with village chiefs and certain community leaders , slippery ,slimy , cunning these PTP, always a alternative motive, not everyone is fooled. .

You forgot to mention that PRDC would prevent ballot papers being distributed and intimidate voters just as they did in February to ensure that the outcome would be voided by a friendly EC. With Suthep and the PRDC it is their way or no way even if that is not in the best interests of the country. Oh, and if the Dems do take part, which is doubtful, they will engage in vote buying just as they have admitted to doing previously.

[Old Man River]

There is no problem with this, but it would obviously be rejected by the Dems/PDRC as they would never get what they want from and election/referendum etc which they well know, which is why the last thing any of them want is a bloody election, the pesky things.

Now you are putting words in their mouth?

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Putting words in whose mouth?

The PDRC who you say would reject it without their ever being asked about a referendum. Or did you mean the Dem's. I am not sure as you,didn't separate them.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The Dems and PDRC are the same, there is no difference.

I dont think its much of a stretch to assume that they dont want a referendum, considering the political party of the protesters have boycotted the last one and threaten to boycott the next, and their militant arm the PDRC have been campaigning on an anti election platform, so i dont think i am stretching it to far saying it would be rejected.

Let them have their say. Unlike you, what I don't do is perceive that I know what each one thinks.

What you need to understand is that there is splits in the Democrats and no unified group known as Red Shirts. This may shock you, but there are RS groups separate from the UDD and Thaksin.

This is why it is important for analysts to understand what each group wants. A roadmap needs to incorporate all groups to bring the Country together, not just Shinawatra vs. anti-Shinawatra. The issues are far more complex than this.

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[Piichai]

First, ALL parties need to agree that there is a need for reforms,thats the easy part. Then the more difficult question will be: what exactly needs to be reformed? The PTP and PDRC have polar opposite ideas about what needs to be reformed.

Perhaps, but it's a moot point if they refuse to come to the table.

[casualbiker]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

What are PTP doing to foster reconciliation?

Threats of court action and prison terms...!

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[casualbiker]

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

He cannot be given Royal assent, because there is no legally represented Acting, Caretaker PM to present him. Hence, the political vacuum.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

People keep saying that, but bearing in mind the leaning of the CC, don't you think the dems or sutheps backers would have demanded a ruling from the CC by now on the alleged illegality of a deputy PM taking over the PM position if the the previous incumbent can no longer carry out his or her duties?

.....................................Precisely

Precisely ..What?

Why demand a ruling ..They know a deputy PM can take over certain things .. when a PM is temporarily indisposed .. This isn't the case here!

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[Mentors]

Would there be a free and fair referendum...?

[smutcakes]

Would there be a free and fair referendum...?

The referendum would be held the same as they have always been in Thailand. I presume it would be declared unfair should it not give PDRC/Democrats what they want. Of course they did not bother about things like free and fair referendums in 2007, but that's a moot point.

[bigbamboo]

I agree with Jatuporn on this, whether it was his idea or not. In fact I'd go along with any suggestion that might help put a stop to the current Thainess.... sorry, I meant to say madness.

The last one when the people voted for the current constitution in 2007 went off very well so there's no reason why it shouldn't happen again.

Edited May 16, 2014 by bigbamboo

[looping]

One of the reasons why democracy has been such a disaster in Thailand; people don't understand what they're voting for.

During a recent vote in BKK, my missus and family didn't vote because of the lack of info, didn't know who or what they were voting for. No info available.

Govt will make damn sure things are as muddy as possible whilst pushing the 'democracy' "we just want our vote" story.

Of course the BBC will sell this line also, as deep as they need to go.

If politics wasn't so lucrative, that may help, which is why reform is needed, but that's just too much for millions of people to understand, apparently. Or maybe they're just hoping that they'll 'benefit from corruption', even with a few scraps.

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