Negotiating the price of a condo

[mjakob007]

Over development seems to be a bit of a plague across a lot of Asia and with Thailand now in a recession and confidence falling in the economy it doest feel like a good time to buy.

So rather like 1997 then?

There is nothing new happening in Thailand.

there seems to be a lot of condos coming up for sale, but most are offplan, less expensive but you may end up seeing a ppt file often.

i would say there are limited number of exquisite units for sale.

[chiang mai]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

I'm not scaremongering. Have a look at the facts. Hardly a month goes by without a rumour or a statement by an official that visa conditions are going to change or may change. I work in the oil and gas industry and therefore travel 7 or 8 times a year on a tourist visa, there are rumours that regular visitors may have that curtailed at the whim of an immigration officer in the absence of an official directive. I remember just a few years ago the visa run rules changed almost overnight and, if I remember correctly, the number of neighbouring country visa runs was reduced with a non-neighbouring country entry required periodically.

Additionally the Head of State has been ill for some time and the lack of a defined succession is causing concern to some neighbouring countries. Put this alongside the recent statement by the army concerning possible intervention because of the present political unrest. Should the Head of State die with no certain successor in place then there is potential for an extended role of the army. It is generally accepted that some elements of the army are not happy with the number of expats in the Kingdom and would welcome a wholesale review of visa restrictions along with some of the associated businesses.

You mention tourism is 13% of GDP, I would argue that "adult" tourism would amount to a very small proportion of that overall tourism figure. If the army decide to curtail that side of tourism then undoubtedly a number of expats may decide to leave, increasing housing supply and affecting the price in line with that.

The points I have outlined above are, individually, relatively minor but taken as a whole they indicate a possible risk to foreign investment. Put alongside this the current red and yellow shirt conflict and the present impotent government with no agreed election date in sight, I'd be very weary of tying up any capital in property for the foreseeable future. I have spoken to many others with the same thoughts as me which doesn't bode well for market confidence. And isn't market confdence every bit as important as availability of funds and a fluid market?

Those are theories that are based on "rumours, if's" and "possibly" - that's scaremongering.

And I'm unclear what you mean by "adult" tourism, presumably you refer to the sex trade? So you think that if the army curtailed that side of things then expats would leave and that would affect house prices and supply!!! I mean really.

I've got news for you, sex trade tourism is a drop in the Thai GDP ocean, similarly, sexpat housing is a fraction so small as to be totally irrelevant.

[Thaiberius]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

I'm not scaremongering. Have a look at the facts. Hardly a month goes by without a rumour or a statement by an official that visa conditions are going to change or may change. I work in the oil and gas industry and therefore travel 7 or 8 times a year on a tourist visa, there are rumours that regular visitors may have that curtailed at the whim of an immigration officer in the absence of an official directive. I remember just a few years ago the visa run rules changed almost overnight and, if I remember correctly, the number of neighbouring country visa runs was reduced with a non-neighbouring country entry required periodically.

Additionally the Head of State has been ill for some time and the lack of a defined succession is causing concern to some neighbouring countries. Put this alongside the recent statement by the army concerning possible intervention because of the present political unrest. Should the Head of State die with no certain successor in place then there is potential for an extended role of the army. It is generally accepted that some elements of the army are not happy with the number of expats in the Kingdom and would welcome a wholesale review of visa restrictions along with some of the associated businesses.

You mention tourism is 13% of GDP, I would argue that "adult" tourism would amount to a very small proportion of that overall tourism figure. If the army decide to curtail that side of tourism then undoubtedly a number of expats may decide to leave, increasing housing supply and affecting the price in line with that.

The points I have outlined above are, individually, relatively minor but taken as a whole they indicate a possible risk to foreign investment. Put alongside this the current red and yellow shirt conflict and the present impotent government with no agreed election date in sight, I'd be very weary of tying up any capital in property for the foreseeable future. I have spoken to many others with the same thoughts as me which doesn't bode well for market confidence. And isn't market confdence every bit as important as availability of funds and a fluid market?

Those are theories that are based on "rumours, if's" and "possibly" - that's scaremongering.

And I'm unclear what you mean by "adult" tourism, presumably you refer to the sex trade? So you think that if the army curtailed that side of things then expats would leave and that would affect house prices and supply!!! I mean really.

I've got news for you, sex trade tourism is a drop in the Thai GDP ocean, similarly, sexpat housing is a fraction so small as to be totally irrelevant.

Clearly there is a disconnect between my post and what you think you have read. Unfortunately in order to clarify I will have to enter into some form of discussion with you assuming a reasonable level of intellect. As this doesn't appear to be possible in your case and I'm about to leave in order to drop my laundry off with Wan, I'll leave it.

[chiang mai]

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

I'm not scaremongering. Have a look at the facts. Hardly a month goes by without a rumour or a statement by an official that visa conditions are going to change or may change. I work in the oil and gas industry and therefore travel 7 or 8 times a year on a tourist visa, there are rumours that regular visitors may have that curtailed at the whim of an immigration officer in the absence of an official directive. I remember just a few years ago the visa run rules changed almost overnight and, if I remember correctly, the number of neighbouring country visa runs was reduced with a non-neighbouring country entry required periodically.

Additionally the Head of State has been ill for some time and the lack of a defined succession is causing concern to some neighbouring countries. Put this alongside the recent statement by the army concerning possible intervention because of the present political unrest. Should the Head of State die with no certain successor in place then there is potential for an extended role of the army. It is generally accepted that some elements of the army are not happy with the number of expats in the Kingdom and would welcome a wholesale review of visa restrictions along with some of the associated businesses.

You mention tourism is 13% of GDP, I would argue that "adult" tourism would amount to a very small proportion of that overall tourism figure. If the army decide to curtail that side of tourism then undoubtedly a number of expats may decide to leave, increasing housing supply and affecting the price in line with that.

The points I have outlined above are, individually, relatively minor but taken as a whole they indicate a possible risk to foreign investment. Put alongside this the current red and yellow shirt conflict and the present impotent government with no agreed election date in sight, I'd be very weary of tying up any capital in property for the foreseeable future. I have spoken to many others with the same thoughts as me which doesn't bode well for market confidence. And isn't market confdence every bit as important as availability of funds and a fluid market?

Those are theories that are based on "rumours, if's" and "possibly" - that's scaremongering.

And I'm unclear what you mean by "adult" tourism, presumably you refer to the sex trade? So you think that if the army curtailed that side of things then expats would leave and that would affect house prices and supply!!! I mean really.

I've got news for you, sex trade tourism is a drop in the Thai GDP ocean, similarly, sexpat housing is a fraction so small as to be totally irrelevant.

Clearly there is a disconnect between my post and what you think you have read. Unfortunately in order to clarify I will have to enter into some form of discussion with you assuming a reasonable level of intellect. As this doesn't appear to be possible in your case and I'm about to leave in order to drop my laundry off with Wan, I'll leave it.

Attack the post, not the poster else all is lost! BTW you're trying in part to discuss topics that are not allowed, merely changing the nomenclature doesn't alter that fact.

Edited May 18, 2014 by chiang mai

[richard_smith237]

Purely regarding discounts that owners may offer...

Here is my logic:

I bought my Condo for 6 MB - I tried to sell it for 6.5 MB - No Takers.

I dropped the price to 6.0 MB - No takers.

I've now dropped the price to 5.5 MB.

My Condo is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

I've had it for 5 years from new - Over that period of time I would have paid 35,000 baht per month in the same place.

Thats 42,000 baht per year / 2,100,000 baht over 5 years.

Of course there are others costs, legal, transfer costs, taxes etc...

Thus: When I sell the Condo (IF I sell it) I will have saved money over renting (possibly 1.6 MB).

Of course - With buying a property there is the risk of not being able to sell, not being able to move if there is a noisy neighbour or for any other reason. Owning a condo we have less flexibility with regards to movement, however, we have greater flexibility when creating a home (refurbishing / decorating etc).

Thus: The Renting versus Owning debate is really a moot point - the decision is purely a personal choice.

The question of discount is really answered by the view point and logic of the owner - How flexible are they? How reasonable is the offer?

Another perspective: How many of us own cars and are loosing money on those ?

i.e. a 4 MB BMW or Merc will loose 2 MB over 5 years.

Thus property in Thailand could be viewed in a similar manner to a car.

[chiang mai]

The other aspect of course is the return on cash employed, leave 6 mill in the bank and get 3/3.5% or buy a condo and offset rent of 35k a month, that's 7%, a decent rate of return by comparison.

[Suradit69]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

Really depends on your circumstances and, of course, location, location, location.

I bought my condo nearly 17 years ago. Used it for three or more months a year for the first ten years and have lived in it the last 7 years full time. Upkeep of the building has been good including some recent major work. I live centrally and near the beach so the location is great Both rents and purchase prices have gone up over time. I'm not thinking in terms of what I'll get if I sell, but it terms of what I would have to pay if I entered the market as a buyer/renter now or if I had paid rent all those years and/or had to keep shifting around furniture, appliances etc.

I don't regard it as an investment in the sense that I will want to sell it, but in terms of the price paid versus renting all those years, it's been well worth it even at this point. If I live another 5 to 10 years, so much the better. My Thai heir will end up with a decent windfall when it's sold. I don't mean it will generate multi-millions, but however much it sells for, that will be a big bonus compared to what the heir would get from a rental unit ... which would be zero baht or maybe a bill for clearing out the contents.

It depends on many factors. Some areas are over-built. Some buildings, assuming they're already fully constructed, are slums waiting to happen. If people are buying to rent out or that's what the builder is doing with many units, you'll probably end up with a lot of undesirable farang running about who have no interest in maintaining the building and are there short term on a continuous drunken orgy.

If you're certain it will be something that YOU will use for a long time ( as opposed to thinking you'll resell sometime for a profit) and that the building is establish & in a desirable location, go for it. Must of those who advise against doing this probably thought themselves to be big-time property flippers who bought junk to resell, only to discover that garbage doesn't increase in value as it ripens. They got their fingers burnt because of poor planning, but choose to blame it on the Thai property market. If you do something really stupid, point your finger at someone else.

I was doubly lucky ( as opposed to prescient) in that I sold stock investments to make the purchase just before a major market sell off.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Suradit69

[MyFriend You]

Unless you are married and/or have children and wish to provide security for them I'd steer away from buying any property or land in Thailand. Simply not worth it.

You know what they say about opinions, "they are like ............ everybody has one". You base this enlightening statement on 'what??' I know dozens of expat families that have lived years here and have had a good quality of life, much better that the US or EUR with respect to 'security' - if your post was directed soley toward 'security of the property purchase' then lots of us would be inclined to agree with you.

[Thaiberius]

Unless you are married and/or have children and wish to provide security for them I'd steer away from buying any property or land in Thailand. Simply not worth it.

You know what they say about opinions, "they are like ............ everybody has one". You base this enlightening statement on 'what??' I know dozens of expat families that have lived years here and have had a good quality of life, much better that the US or EUR with respect to 'security' - if your post was directed soley toward 'security of the property purchase' then lots of us would be inclined to agree with you.

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick there my friend.

[MyFriend You]

Prices per sqm here ranging from 70k to 140k... for a condo in a third world country...

Hmmm. I paid well under 50K/sqm for my central location sea-view condo and I still think it was overpriced, and probably worth 20-25% less than I paid.

I can only ponder about what sort of w*anker would pay 70-140K/sqm here, but I know they do. I'm told that some people pay thousands for sex with hookers here too.

Third world?? hardly, maybe 2d world, not 1st but definately not 3rd, I've spent a good portion of my life in the 3rd world, and Thailand is not one of them, not even close.

[MyFriend You]

Good topic discussion. Where would one go to see if there are any foreclosure sales in an area someone would be interested in? Also, where would you find what comparable units have sold for in an area of interest?

Try the local banck - Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) always has listings of forclosures, I regularly visit the main branch on Wireless Road in Bangkok to get a peak.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

So...the expat who moved here six years ago and took your advice, they've now paid out say 20k on average per month over that period and now they've decided they now think your advice is, ahem, not the best! What to do!

It seems that expat has spent 1.45 million baht on rent plus now the price of the apartment he wanted to buy in the first place has increased by what, 20/30% (varies on location).

That expat can be forgiven for thinking that you're a bad man!

A 1.45M condo in CM rents for about 6k a month (In CM rental is usually around 5% purchase price).

If you paid 20K/month you will have lost out, if you paid a reasonable 6k/month you would be OK.

PS. Loads of condos in CM with cracks after last weeks earthquake, I wouldn't want to have bought one of them.

Edited May 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Good topic discussion. Where would one go to see if there are any foreclosure sales in an area someone would be interested in? Also, where would you find what comparable units have sold for in an area of interest?

Try the local banck - Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) always has listings of forclosures, I regularly visit the main branch on Wireless Road in Bangkok to get a peak.

No bargains to be had from foreclosures, staff and agents have already picked out any good ones.

The rest are all sold (as required by Thai law) for at least the outstanding loan amount.

(SCB gives 95% home loans, so their foreclosures are often 95% of the original valuation, which would have been way generous valuation to get a BIG loan)

Edited May 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[chiang mai]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

So...the expat who moved here six years ago and took your advice, they've now paid out say 20k on average per month over that period and now they've decided they now think your advice is, ahem, not the best! What to do!

It seems that expat has spent 1.45 million baht on rent plus now the price of the apartment he wanted to buy in the first place has increased by what, 20/30% (varies on location).

That expat can be forgiven for thinking that you're a bad man!

A 1.45M condo in CM rents for about 6k a month (In CM rental is usually around 5% purchase price).

If you paid 20K/month you will have lost out, if you paid a reasonable 6k/month you would be OK.

PS. Loads of condos in CM with cracks after last weeks earthquake, I wouldn't want to have bought one of them.

The usual incorrect and misleading nonsense:

Not everyone wants to live in a 40 square metre condo, some prefer 95 and and 150 square metres, the price varies accordingly!

And is there any reason why condo's might crack as a result of the earthquakes, more so than houses! Crazy!

[Stanley78]

Purely regarding discounts that owners may offer...

Here is my logic:

I bought my Condo for 6 MB - I tried to sell it for 6.5 MB - No Takers.

I dropped the price to 6.0 MB - No takers.

I've now dropped the price to 5.5 MB.

My Condo is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

I've had it for 5 years from new - Over that period of time I would have paid 35,000 baht per month in the same place.

Thats 42,000 baht per year / 2,100,000 baht over 5 years.

Of course there are others costs, legal, transfer costs, taxes etc...

Thus: When I sell the Condo (IF I sell it) I will have saved money over renting (possibly 1.6 MB).

Of course - With buying a property there is the risk of not being able to sell, not being able to move if there is a noisy neighbour or for any other reason. Owning a condo we have less flexibility with regards to movement, however, we have greater flexibility when creating a home (refurbishing / decorating etc).

Thus: The Renting versus Owning debate is really a moot point - the decision is purely a personal choice.

The question of discount is really answered by the view point and logic of the owner - How flexible are they? How reasonable is the offer?

Was that an example or a specific situation you had? If the latter then could you without going into too much detail just for my curiosity tell me the city and area?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The best negotiation is not to buy Condo at all. Stay here for few years, then you will learn not worth buying. Probably the prices will slum if couple of years. Over 50 000 unsold condo and more than 300 000 to be build. Hummmmmmmmm who wants to live there???????

So...the expat who moved here six years ago and took your advice, they've now paid out say 20k on average per month over that period and now they've decided they now think your advice is, ahem, not the best! What to do!

It seems that expat has spent 1.45 million baht on rent plus now the price of the apartment he wanted to buy in the first place has increased by what, 20/30% (varies on location).

That expat can be forgiven for thinking that you're a bad man!

A 1.45M condo in CM rents for about 6k a month (In CM rental is usually around 5% purchase price).

If you paid 20K/month you will have lost out, if you paid a reasonable 6k/month you would be OK.

PS. Loads of condos in CM with cracks after last weeks earthquake, I wouldn't want to have bought one of them.

The usual incorrect and misleading nonsense:

Not everyone wants to live in a 40 square metre condo, some prefer 95 and and 150 square metres, the price varies accordingly!

And is there any reason why condo's might crack as a result of the earthquakes, more so than houses! Crazy!

6 floor condo Vs 2 floor house

You can't see the difference! (re earthquake).

We were talking 6 years ago, condos were bigger 6 years ago.

(I can rent a very nice 40m condo just off Huay Keow Road for 3,300/month + utils. (inc parking and air-con)

Edited May 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[chiang mai]

So...the expat who moved here six years ago and took your advice, they've now paid out say 20k on average per month over that period and now they've decided they now think your advice is, ahem, not the best! What to do!

It seems that expat has spent 1.45 million baht on rent plus now the price of the apartment he wanted to buy in the first place has increased by what, 20/30% (varies on location).

That expat can be forgiven for thinking that you're a bad man!

A 1.45M condo in CM rents for about 6k a month (In CM rental is usually around 5% purchase price).

If you paid 20K/month you will have lost out, if you paid a reasonable 6k/month you would be OK.

PS. Loads of condos in CM with cracks after last weeks earthquake, I wouldn't want to have bought one of them.

The usual incorrect and misleading nonsense:

Not everyone wants to live in a 40 square metre condo, some prefer 95 and and 150 square metres, the price varies accordingly!

And is there any reason why condo's might crack as a result of the earthquakes, more so than houses! Crazy!

6 floor condo Vs 2 floor house

You can't see the difference! (re earthquake).

We were talking 6 years ago, condos were bigger 6 years ago.

The 24 story (twenty five year old) condo building I live in doesn't have any cracks as a result of the earthquake, neither does Riverside, neither does Rimping, and so on ..

[KittenKong]

I bought my Condo for 6 MB - I tried to sell it for 6.5 MB - No Takers.

I dropped the price to 6.0 MB - No takers.

I've now dropped the price to 5.5 MB.

My Condo is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

I've had it for 5 years from new - Over that period of time I would have paid 35,000 baht per month in the same place.

Thats 42,000 baht per year / 2,100,000 baht over 5 years.

Of course there are others costs, legal, transfer costs, taxes etc...

Thus: When I sell the Condo (IF I sell it) I will have saved money over renting (possibly 1.6 MB).

Let's say that you did pay 6MB for it (+ probably half the transfer tax). Let's say you do sell for 5.5MB (which may be somewhat optimistic). You will have more tax to pay and quite possibly 5% to an agent. So the total loss could be as much as 1MB, maybe more.

If you had put that 6MB in the bank 5 years ago you would have got 3 or 4% on it with no risk and no costs at all. Let's say 3.5%

Compounded over 5 years that's 1,126,117 Baht. Other investments could well have returned much more, albeit with some risk.

So that actual discrepancy between the two could be 2,123,117Baht. And that's without looking at the cost of replacement aircons, washing machines, redecorating etc etc which your landlord would be liable for.

So that's almost exactly the same sum you think you would have paid in rent (though I suspect you could have saved quite a bit on your rental figure for a 5-year tenancy). And all without any risk of prices dropping hard, or your condo falling over in an earthquake or a karaoke starting up next door.

Another perspective: How many of us own cars and are loosing money on those ?

i.e. a 4 MB BMW or Merc will loose 2 MB over 5 years.

Thus property in Thailand could be viewed in a similar manner to a car.

The difference there is that all modern vehicles lose nearly all of their value over 10-15 years or so, after which time they are probably only fit for scrap. Everyone knows this. A concrete building should last a lot longer than 10 years, and the land it is built on should be there forever.

Edited May 18, 2014 by KittenKong

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I bought my Condo for 6 MB - I tried to sell it for 6.5 MB - No Takers.

I dropped the price to 6.0 MB - No takers.

I've now dropped the price to 5.5 MB.

My Condo is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

I've had it for 5 years from new - Over that period of time I would have paid 35,000 baht per month in the same place.

Thats 42,000 baht per year / 2,100,000 baht over 5 years.

Of course there are others costs, legal, transfer costs, taxes etc...

Thus: When I sell the Condo (IF I sell it) I will have saved money over renting (possibly 1.6 MB).

Let's say that you did pay 6MB for it (+ probably half the transfer tax). Let's say you do sell for 5.5MB (which may be somewhat optimistic). You will have more tax to pay and quite possibly 5% to an agent. So the total loss could be as much as 1MB, maybe more.

If you had put that 6MB in the bank 5 years ago you would have got 3 or 4% on it with no risk and no costs at all. Let's say 3.5%

Compounded over 5 years that's 1,126,117 Baht. Other investments could well have returned much more, albeit with some risk.

So that actual discrepancy between the two could be 2,123,117Baht. And that's without looking at the cost of replacement aircons, washing machines, redecorating etc etc which your landlord would be liable for.

So that's almost exactly the same sum you think you would have paid in rent (though I suspect you could have saved quite a bit on your rental figure for a 5-year tenancy). And all without any risk of prices dropping hard, or your condo falling over in an earthquake or a karaoke starting up next door.

Another perspective: How many of us own cars and are loosing money on those ?

i.e. a 4 MB BMW or Merc will loose 2 MB over 5 years.

Thus property in Thailand could be viewed in a similar manner to a car.

The difference there is that all modern vehicles lose nearly all of their value over 10-15 years or so, after which time they are probably only fit for scrap. Everyone knows this. A concrete building should last a lot longer than 10 years, and the land it is built on should be there forever.

Big assumption that the condo is even worth 4M.

Huge glut of condos on the market.

Far more difficult for a foreigner to gat a VISA (this week), so less buyers.

Not to mention 35k/month rental on a 6M condo is optimistic, 25k/month more realistic.

How long has it been for sale?

Two price drops, so I'm thinking at 6 months or more.

[lomatopo]

If you've identified a specific area/property then it might be easy to rent there for 1 year while you investigate that specific property or ones nearby.

Prakard dot com has extensive forums for each property grouped by location. Most/all detail is in Thai but you can figure things out, get someone to help, use Google translate.

If you can wait it out, you can buy now along one of the new public transport lines which will be opening in 2015/6/7.

I don't believe there is any hard/fast rule/number/% re: negotiating; if priced to market you might offer the original price, and if priced at a premium then you might try to start lower.

Edited May 18, 2014 by lomatopo

[Thaiberius]

It's fairly standard for your first offer to be under the asking price. Then the nitty gritty starts. Even though there may be similar condo's at a similar price there will always be negotiating points. Internal decoration, view, time on the market, are more buyers sniffing around, plans for neighbouring developments, associated noise, service charges, any major building refurbishment planned - top of the list is never become sentimental over one condo, never think you must get it whatever the cost, you can guarantee there's always another just around the corner.

[Stanley78]

If you've identified a specific area/property then it might be easy to rent there for 1 year while you investigate that specific property or ones nearby.

Prakard dot com has extensive forums for each property grouped by location. Most/all detail is in Thai but you can figure things out, get someone to help, use Google translate.

If you can wait it out, you can buy now along one of the new public transport lines which will be opening in 2015/6/7.

I don't believe there is any hard/fast rule/number/% re: negotiating; if priced to market you might offer the original price, and if priced at a premium then you might try to start lower.

Good advice and that's similar to what I have done. I have signed up to stay at a serviced apartment building in the area I want to be so that I have a flexible length of stay while I take my time to look and wait for a suitable property to purchase.

Obviously more expensive per month than getting a 1 year lease but I prefer to be able to move out whenever I want rather than being stuck with a 12 month contract if I buy something sooner.

And as you pointed out Prakard has a very active forum with postings. There are a few more good sites I found (Condoable, DD Property, Hipflat) but Prakard is definitely on the list.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Stanley78

[Stanley78]

Since I started this topic I will add this to it even if it perhaps isn't too useful. I asked a real estate agency what their experience has been on actual sales vs. asking prices and they replied:

"Asking prices usually vary, and so does the room for negotiation. Some landlords did some renovations, other don't, sometimes you might find a seller who is in pressure to sell. I have seen prices drop from 2-25% depending on the units itself, their condition, and the urge of the owner to sell off the place."

Edited May 19, 2014 by Stanley78

[Senechal]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

Except tourism isn't 13% of GDP. Stop pumping.

[Stanley78]

Except tourism isn't 13% of GDP. Stop pumping.

According to Wikipedia: "Tourism makes a larger contribution to Thailand's economy (typically about six percent of GDP) than that of any other Asian nation."

So based on that you are correct, it's not 13% but around 6%.

[chiang mai]

The market would not be my main concern, it is the increasing political uncertainty and the almost inevitable effect this will have upon farangs. Tying up capital in Thailand just makes no sense to me.

What is inevitable about the impact on farangs of the political mess in Bangkok. do you think a new government would tell all foreigners to leave, goodness me.

At 13% of GDP, tourism represents a necessary component of growth in the Thai economy, that you don't understand that contribution is a shame but it is reality.

Stop scaremongering.

Except tourism isn't 13% of GDP. Stop pumping.

Pump this, from the World Bank:

"Tourism was the bright spot, expanding at a record high rate of around 20 percent year-on-year"

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014

Or this:

"The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012,

and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023"

http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf

Rebuttals require authoritative links.

Next!

[Stanley78]

Pump this, from the World Bank:

"Tourism was the bright spot, expanding at a record high rate of around 20 percent year-on-year"

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014

Or this:

"The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012,

and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023"

http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf

Rebuttals require authoritative links.

Next!

According to http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf which you posted it is direct contribution (7.3% in 2012) vs. total contribution (16.7% in 2012).

"GDP: DIRECT CONTRIBUTION

The direct contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB825.6bn (7.3% of total GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 6.2% in 2013, and to rise by 6.8% pa, from 2013-2023, to THB1,698.4bn in 2023 (in constant 2012 prices)

GDP: TOTAL CONTRIBUTION

The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023."

I am not qualified to say which number should be used so I will just say that you could both be correct.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Stanley78

[lomatopo]

You can invest in the local real estate market, without purchasing property, by investing in SET-listed residential property developers:

http://kinvestmentportal.kasikornsecurities.com/fileadmin/pdf/English/1/8/21/2014/140422_Sector_Report_Thai_residential_property_E96561.pdf

If you plan to buy to rent and/or sell, there may be local income/capital gains tax implications.

[chiang mai]

Pump this, from the World Bank:

"Tourism was the bright spot, expanding at a record high rate of around 20 percent year-on-year"

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014

Or this:

"The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012,

and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023"

http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf

Rebuttals require authoritative links.

Next!

According to http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf which you posted it is direct contribution (7.3% in 2012) vs. total contribution (16.7% in 2012).

"GDP: DIRECT CONTRIBUTION

The direct contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB825.6bn (7.3% of total GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 6.2% in 2013, and to rise by 6.8% pa, from 2013-2023, to THB1,698.4bn in 2023 (in constant 2012 prices)

GDP: TOTAL CONTRIBUTION

The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023."

I am not qualified to say which number should be used so I will just say that you could both be correct.

A GDP contribution remains exactly that, regardless of whether it is direct, indirect or round the houses via some short time bar, its destination remains the same.

[thewug]

Pump this, from the World Bank:

"Tourism was the bright spot, expanding at a record high rate of around 20 percent year-on-year"

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand/publication/thailand-economic-monitor-february-2014

Or this:

"The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012,

and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023"

http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf

Rebuttals require authoritative links.

Next!

According to http://www.wttc.org/site_media/uploads/downloads/thailand2013.pdf which you posted it is direct contribution (7.3% in 2012) vs. total contribution (16.7% in 2012).

"GDP: DIRECT CONTRIBUTION

The direct contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB825.6bn (7.3% of total GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 6.2% in 2013, and to rise by 6.8% pa, from 2013-2023, to THB1,698.4bn in 2023 (in constant 2012 prices)

GDP: TOTAL CONTRIBUTION

The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB1,896.7bn (16.7% of GDP) in 2012, and is forecast to rise by 7.4% in 2013, and to rise by 6.5% pa to THB3,833.0bn in 2023."

I am not qualified to say which number should be used so I will just say that you could both be correct.

A GDP contribution remains exactly that, regardless of whether it is direct, indirect or round the houses via some short time bar, its destination remains the same.

Tourism accounts for about 10% of GDP and visitors dropped about 5% in January-April from a year earlier.

This month, the Tourism Authority of Thailand cut its forecast for 2014 tourist arrivals to 26.3 million, the lowest in five years, from 28 million.

The political turmoil is also hurting Thailand's big auto sector, which accounts for 11% of GDP and is the largest in Southeast Asia. Domestic car sales are falling and some 30,000 industry jobs have been lost his year.