Dress Code

[Mike Atkins]

The Learning Post is running a feature on teachers' dress codes, and I wondered if any of the forum posters here might have some input.

The kind of stuff I'm after is what companies expect staff to wear and why; what teachers think about this; what students think; anecdotes of inapropriately dressed teachers (the old tank tops and mini-skirts spring to mind); and what the practicalities of imposing a dress code actually are.

I'm always pretty flexible, so if any other approach comes to mind, I'd be happy to consider it.

Thanks in advance for your time

MA

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi, Mike,

I worked at two matayom schools outside of Chiang Mai, and one commericial college. I was expected to wear a dress shirt, tie, dark trousers, and black socks and shoes. The Thai teachers did likewise, and we wore Lanna clothes on Friday. Slightly formal, and more than a little hot, but that's fine.

To some interpreters, "proper dress" includes much more. I always had a pony tail, and they never asked me to cut it. One coworker was a skinhead, but with a Ph.D. and middle age, he just looked bald. I understand that excessive facial hair and piercings and tatoos would be considered taboo. Hmm, a taboo tatoo, I hear a rhyme coming on...my son was Scooby Doo, too.

[tutsiwarrior]

Hi, Mike,

I worked at two matayom schools outside of Chiang Mai, and one commericial college. I was expected to wear a dress shirt, tie, dark trousers, and black socks and shoes. The Thai teachers did likewise, and we wore Lanna clothes on Friday. Slightly formal, and more than a little hot, but that's fine.

To some interpreters, "proper dress" includes much more. I always had a pony tail, and they never asked me to cut it. One coworker was a skinhead, but with a Ph.D. and middle age, he just looked bald. I understand that excessive facial hair and piercings and tatoos would be considered taboo. Hmm, a taboo tatoo, I hear a rhyme coming on...my son was Scooby Doo, too.

do the managers mind too much if yer sweatin' thru yer clothes with the collar and tie arrangement in a non A/C room full of kids? I'm thinkin' about teaching in about 5 years time when I'm too old to do anything else and the idea of a strict dress code would be enough to put me off the idea altogether...

plus, I would need to wear sandals (with socks if required)...the idea of my feet encased in concrete when I am on my feet expostulating for 4 hours per day is distressing...

maybe I should open a bar instead...shorts (without underpants), flip flops and big exposed beer belly would be just right. As the owner I could pretend to be one of the customers...

[PeaceBlondie]

Not to worry, tutsiwarrior. The Ministry of Education, that fount of accurate govt. accuracy, is going to announce tomorrow that in the year 2554, every classroom in Thailand will be constantly kept at 25 degrees, class sizes will be 20 students per class, salary for farang backpackers and beer-bellied expats will be 99,000 baht every month, and you may come to class with a loincloth only, dressed as a Tutsi warrior.

But maybe I got the translation wrong; maybe 2554 is the Western calendar.

[tutsiwarrior]

Not to worry, tutsiwarrior. The Ministry of Education, that fount of accurate govt. accuracy, is going to announce tomorrow that in the year 2554, every classroom in Thailand will be constantly kept at 25 degrees, class sizes will be 20 students per class, salary for farang backpackers and beer-bellied expats will be 99,000 baht every month, and you may come to class with a loincloth only, dressed as a Tutsi warrior.

But maybe I got the translation wrong; maybe 2554 is the Western calendar.

could I serve beer in the classroom?...and would there be employment for my lovely assistants?...

I'd even wear a tie for dat one...

[jdinasia]

I have worn a moustache since I was 12 .... already have to trim it down from the nose quite a bit to Scuba .. to keep a good fit on the mask) .... just don't see me teching here if I had to shave it all the way off The rest is doable ... shirt and tie never has bothered me and i like nice shoes

[Mike Atkins]

Moustache since 12, huh? That's dedication.

Interesting that you brought up 'personal grooming', though. Are beards etc frowned upon (or under)? I'm thinking of Thai grade schools in particular.

[kenkannif]

I think clean shaven is 'better' but moustaches and beards aren't IMO&E going to be a job breaker.

[jdinasia]

well I am heavily tattooed too .... but that won't matter any polite clothes cover the ink ...

facial hair depends on the school ... often frowned upon ...

[PeaceBlondie]

To my memory, I never saw a Thai teacher having more than a mustache, and very few of them. They were brought up in a military environment, with short hair, no facial hair, etc. Even outside of school, you'll note that most of the professional men are usually quite clean shaven.

[Tarragona]

I worked with a bearded farang once. It wasn't a real issue but when they were gossiping, I know some of the Thai staff thought him 'dirty'.

[Scott]

If you are going to teach, the dress code is important to the Thai folks. I find that short-sleeved shirt and tie to be quite comfortable in the classroom. I usually take my shoes off in the classroom--not because of politeness or anything--I just find it a little bit more comfortable and cool without my shoes on--and every little bit helps.

Once a week we can wear the school sport shirt (on Friday) and now for the rest of the year the Yellow (Polo) shirt for the King's anniversary on Mondays. So two days a week we can dress rather casually.

[Mike Atkins]

Many thanks for the replies.

Is anyone aware of regulations set down by the Ministry of Education. The impression I have is that there are regs, but schools can interpret them as they wish.

Scott, the Friday sport shirt is interesting. I've heard from other teachers that on Fridays, they are encouraged to wear 'traditional' dress. In Chiang Rai, I'm told Friday is for purple shirts. can anyone expand on this?

[Ijustwannateach]

As with almost everything, there's very little consistency from school to school, though it is consistently true that most schools have a "Thai silk" day, a "civil service uniform" day, "school colours" day, "scouting" day, etc. There are also good-luck colours associated with each day and it is considered good to wear these colours on the appropriate day (for example, Friday is blue).

In general, for men, light top and dark trousers with good shoes. Long sleeves are ideal, though few foreigners put themselves out that much. Even on "casual" days, a pullover shirt should have a collar (like a polo shirt) to be considered "polite."

Foreigners are expected to go along with things inasfar as they are able- we're not civil service members or scout masters, and many of us can't fit into the school's officially provided clothing for other occasions- but trying to match the colours on our own is always appreciated.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

On Mondays at govt. schools, the teachers who are govt. officers (almost all the Thais) wear their official tan uniform, all day (you see them off campus, as well). The traditional colors are

Monday: tan

Tuesday: pink

Wednesday: light green

Thursday: orange

Friday: blue or traditional or casual

Saturday: violet/light purple

I adhered strictly to this code, and was considered "smart" for doing so. My white, ornate, high-collared Friday shirt made me resemble "The Prince of Ayuddayha"

[kenkannif]

You got acceptable and better IMO.

Beard/tash acceptable.....clean shaven is better.

Short sleeved shirts acceptable......long sleeved better.

Long hair acceptable......short hair better.

Etc.

They ain't shy, so if you're doing something wrong IMO they'll let you know (as I found out when our Principal came in with some deodorant (sp?) for me....always had a problem with personal hygiene).

But like a lot of things here.....sometimes they'll make slight allowances and take the good with the bad as it were.

One of them things as has been said before....more you look like a teacher, the more you'll be accepted as a teacher!

[mbkudu]

..more you look like a teacher, the more you'll be accepted as a teacher!

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[leftcross]

can you refuse to wear the monday yellow t-shirt on the grounds of being a foreigner?

[Ijustwannateach]

There are soooo many things in which cultural and status differences make life challenging for the foreign resident, not to mention the foreign worker, in this country. You cannot "win" every potential conflict that comes up, and therefore you need to choose which situations are most important to you. I would argue that issues of school dress policy are some of those which are relatively easy for the foreigner to accommodate, and of relatively high importance to the Thais-- therefore, I would not recommend choosing this issue to make a stand.

[Thaiboxer]

What was said by kenkannif is true...schools will often hire based on looks rather than credentials which sort of conflicts with the working world here. This is why so many ads on ajarn.com and elsewhere will insist on a recent photograph along with your resume'. Some of the stuff in these ads stinks of age descrimination which would land them in court in the West, but over here they can get away with it. It's a sad fact, but at the end of the day if you have white skin, are decent looking and under the age of 45 most schools will take you regardless of credentials. If you do fall into this category then consider yourself lucky as the job market is definitely good for you.

[leftcross]

There are soooo many things in which cultural and status differences make life challenging for the foreign resident, not to mention the foreign worker, in this country. You cannot "win" every potential conflict that comes up, and therefore you need to choose which situations are most important to you. I would argue that issues of school dress policy are some of those which are relatively easy for the foreigner to accommodate, and of relatively high importance to the Thais-- therefore, I would not recommend choosing this issue to make a stand.

i asked because i have tattoos on my lower arms. i look great in a long sleeve shirt but if i had to wear a t-shirt then i wouldnt be able to work as a teacher. not bothered about ''winning potential conflicts''

[kenkannif]

^ Maybe see if a normal long sleeved yellow shirt would be acceptable?

I love Mum right??? A classic!

[leftcross]

yes, maybe a long-sleeved yellow shirt would be ok. i was worried in case they made you wear one of the official yellow t-shirts. perhaps it's just the colour though.....

PS - one does say 'mam'

[PeaceBlondie]

At all three of the schools I worked, around Chiang Mai, Monday was the day for a farang man teacher to wear light yellow, long sleeve dress shirt and matching tie. This year, the Thais love bright gold polo shirts to honor His Majesty's 60th year.

leftcross, you might buy a long sleeved dark yellow shirt, wear it, and discreetly show your boss by rolling up your sleeve, why you don't wear short sleeves. They would much rather see long sleeves than tatoos.

[kenkannif]

You can but try/ask mate.

All the best!

[tayto]

Many thanks for the replies.

Is anyone aware of regulations set down by the Ministry of Education. The impression I have is that there are regs, but schools can interpret them as they wish.

Scott, the Friday sport shirt is interesting. I've heard from other teachers that on Fridays, they are encouraged to wear 'traditional' dress. In Chiang Rai, I'm told Friday is for purple shirts. can anyone expand on this?

Hi Mike

To the best of my knowledge in Chiang Rai, Monday is government uniform day, Tuesday is purple colour day[Chiang Rai colours] and Friday is Lanna style or casual style day.

We have been asked to wear yellow shirts every Mon until the Kings birthday in December.

If you want to see stylish teachers come to Chiang rai.

[tutsiwarrior]

What was said by kenkannif is true...schools will often hire based on looks rather than credentials which sort of conflicts with the working world here. This is why so many ads on ajarn.com and elsewhere will insist on a recent photograph along with your resume'. Some of the stuff in these ads stinks of age descrimination which would land them in court in the West, but over here they can get away with it. It's a sad fact, but at the end of the day if you have white skin, are decent looking and under the age of 45 most schools will take you regardless of credentials. If you do fall into this category then consider yourself lucky as the job market is definitely good for you.

this is of concern to me as I still got a few years to go as a well paid professional until I have to face life without a pension and look at teaching English as an option. I have undergraduate degrees in history and mechanical engineering and have always thought that I may not fare badly looking at teaching jobs when 60 + y.o. in Thailand.

Am I deluded?...

[PeaceBlondie]

tutsiwarrior, that's a good post (assuming it was serious). I came here at age 60, with a full blond head and ponytail. Looking professional at all times helped, in the interviews, especially. Having original degree (BA) helped, and fresh out of TEFL school, and acting professionally.

Still, there is age discrimination. Thais retire at age 60, and they assume we've run out of gas. Until they hear that you only miss work when you crash your sportsbike.

[Thaiboxer]

tutsi...with your background you might consider university jobs instead of regular schools. There are plenty of people teaching in unis that are not young and right out of college. Age discrimination here affects Thais as well; in the West, the older and more mature/experienced employee would be desired over the fresh out of school young person but here it's the opposite. Many companies want young faces and will often overlook experience/credentials.

[kenkannif]

^ I thought Unis generally booted you here at 63??? Although they can then employ you as like a lecturer or something???

We have a chap in his early 70's working for us....and many people in their 60s....so I'd not worry too much.