Question about the honorific title of "doctor" in the Thai language

[attrayant]

"Teacher" = Kru ... (OK, Khun Kru if you're feeling polite) is the word you use to address the chap you hire for Baht 300 an hour or so to teach your children the basics - Math, English, French - whatever.

Ajarn is an Honorific bestowed on those who have specific and long term in depth knowledge of a particular subject.

The two are in no way interchangeable.

What's your source for that? Checking several dictionaries, translators and Wikipedia all show that ajarn = teacher. My elderly Thai inlaws back that up, too. What about all the Thai teachers and students at school who call me ajarn; are they not using their own language correctly?

Don't get me wrong - I'm prepared to learn and will stand corrected if wrong, but not by some strangers on the internet. Show me an authoritative source. Especially with regards to your "300 baht or so" remark; what does money have to do with it? If you pay that same person 500 baht (or so), does he stop being a kru and suddenly become an ajarn?

Edited May 24, 2014 by attrayant

[Mole]

I have never been on any "language schools" so I wouldn't know how that works. Do they tell the Thai pupils to call those so called English teachers for "ajarn"? Exactly how do they do that? Do they put up some kind of sign or what?

Besides, many of those so called "language schools" are themselves questionable anyway.

You people are putting too much into the word "ajarn". There's a lot of people out there who gets called "ajarn", but who really don't have much qualifications than their charisma.

[Mole]

Yes, "ajarn" means a teacher or mentor.

But it doesn't mean that you must be qualified teacher or academic, or do any kind of teaching to be called "ajarn".

I already wrote in my earlier post that witch doctors, tattoo masters and feng shui masters are usually called "ajarn".

"Kru", however, you will have to be in some kind of teaching profession to be called that. So anyone who is called ครู "kru" will be a teacher of some sort.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Mole

[Farma]

I'm no authority on the language but going on day to day interactions between family members who include medical professionals and school headmasters.

Senior medical people are introduced to me socially as Doctor or when in mixed company introduced as Khun Mor. There are times when a high status doctor is introduced as Ajarn. Lecturers invited to medical conferences are usually professors or of similar status and referred to and introduced to me as Ajarn.

The 2 headmasters plus another senior teacher in the family are called Kru by their students.

[p_brownstone]

You obviously missed my point completely.

NOBODY insists on calling themselves "ajarn". It is something other people decides to call them. Not something that one tells others to "please call me ajarn" or something like that.

If somebody goes around and insist that others call him "ajarn" (I can't even imagine how.. "Hello, I insist that you address me as "ajarn" please!), but people around him doesn't really feel like he's worthy enough, then nobody is really gonna call him "ajarn". Perhaps only when speaking directly with him, but people would certainly not call him that when he's not around.

I said it in my earlier post that being called "ajarn" doesn't a necessary mean that a particular person must have some kind of real qualifications.

It's something which people can call somebody out of respect and that they may see this person as some kind of mentor.

There's lots of public speakers out there who are called "ajarn" and they're not in academics or anything at all.

example:

Ajarn Jatuphol

Google image his name and you may have seen him before.

It seems you are the one who has some kind of issues with 25 year old teachers being called "ajarn.

If his pupils chose to call their 25 year old English teacher for "ajarn", then there is nobody else business to judge whether he's entitled to be called that or not!

Personally, if I see a 25 year old English teacher being called "ajarn" by his pupils, he would get instant respect from me with such a feat.

I did not miss your point at all Mole - and while not wanting to be contentious you must surely know that (just as an example) there is a Website called "Ajarn" (the title says it all) where people with minimal qualifications look for work as "TEACHERS" at very basic wages.

They all regard themselves as "Ajarns".

Do you really think these people deserve the same respect as Senior University Professors, Medical Professionals, Religious leaders and others, who have spent many years studying their specialty and then and then taking time imparting their knowledge to others?

Finally if a 25 year old English Teacher makes his pupils call him "Ajarn" I would in no way praise him for his obvious pretensions ......... much less for taking advantage of his young and impressionable charges.

Patrick

Edited May 24, 2014 by SlyAnimal
removed website link

[Thai at Heart]

If you have a PhD you can be a doctor in educational situations. I don't see the issue.

Of course, it would likely be a Thai doctorate, so where that puts it on a global scale is rather dubious.

[Mole]

Aww. fq man, that's a freaking site name...!!! you really assume that everybody going there thinks in their mind that they're "ajarn"???

With your reasoning, then anyone coming to thaivisa.com are people looking for visa in Thailand? Or maybe they want to have a Visa credit card in Thailand?

NOBODY is making their pupils to call them "ajarn". It's something the pupil will call their mentor out of respect!

You think he hangs a sign in front of him "please call me ajarn" or something??

Would you please give me some example how you think those teachers are forcing their students to call them "ajarn"??

Because I certainly can not think how somebody will be able to insist others to call themselves "ajarn".

Edited May 24, 2014 by Mole

[Mole]

Would like to add that ครูใหญ่ is just colloquial for อาจารย์ใหญ่ is the same. People will usually call อาจารย์ใหญ่ for ครูใหญ่ in day to day speak.

It means a headmaster at a school.

ศาสตราจารย์ and รองศาสตราจารย์ are however official titles and only people with proper qualifications and job position as professors are entitled to be called this.

Colloquially, they will usually be called อาจารย์ as well.

For example Ajarn Mae อาจารย์แม่

[SlyAnimal]

อาจารย์ is used by most students at my high school, I don't think I ever hear them give a title of ครู to any teachers (Either Thai or Farang), at least not when speaking around me anyway. Maybe that's because they respect all of the teachers, or maybe it's simply that they've been raised to use อาจารย์ rather than ครูู.

The only exception being on formal occasions when they'll sometimes use คุณครู instead.

To me I'm not too fussed either way, technically I should get them to call me "Teacher ____" or "Mr.____" or "Sir" instead to assist them with English / English Culture / English manners, although it's easiest to just stick with the status quo and let the students decide lol (And I much prefer to flow with the river than against it).

Also a 25 year old native English speaker who acts in a professional manner is worthy of being called อาจารย์, they are still an expert in their subject, particularly when teaching primary or high school students. Although from what I've seen, most adult students would also likely give them the same title regardless, as it's a mark of respect for the teaching profession.

Usually when talking to people who are teachers, but not my teacher, I'll only refer to the ones whom I have a lot of respect for as อาจารย์. The others I'll refer to by simply their name when addressing them / speaking about them. I base a lot of my use of Thai upon what my wife does/says, as she was previously a student at my school, so calls all of her old teachers อาจารย์, but the younger ones she'll just refer to by their name unless in a formal situation or in front of students.

[attrayant]

I had a lough-out-loud moment this morning and it seems related to this topic. I'm setting up a user account on a [Thai] web site and apparently they feel it's necessary for shipping purposes to know whether I'm a doctor, professor or knight of the UK.

If that package arrives at my doorstep and doesn't greet me wit the proper title, heads are going to roll!

[keemapoot]

I had a lough-out-loud moment this morning and it seems related to this topic. I'm setting up a user account on a [Thai] web site and apparently they feel it's necessary for shipping purposes to know whether I'm a doctor, professor or knight of the UK.

If that package arrives at my doorstep and doesn't greet me wit the proper title, heads are going to roll!

It's really not strange in Asia, even outside of Academia. Book a 5 star hotel in Singapore directly with the hotel and see how often you see this on the online booking site. And, in SG, HK, Tokyo they will have it in the record and insist on calling you "Dr.". Not sure how they would address you when you arrive if you put Sir, maybe "your majesty?"

[Richard W]

I had a lough-out-loud moment this morning and it seems related to this topic. I'm setting up a user account on a [Thai] web site and apparently they feel it's necessary for shipping purposes to know whether I'm a doctor, professor or knight of the UK.

Yet it doesn't cover men of the cloth, let alone professors who are knights, baronets or both (like Professor Sir Peter Swinnerton-Dyer).