Taxes

[BuangAva]

Hi there,

I know the tax story is a never ending story I'm thinking about permanently moving to Southeast Asia. I have been residing in Thailand 4/5 months a year for the past 4 years.

How did you do it? Just trough a Thai company? Or an offshore account/offshore company? For me it is important that everything is legal, I dont want any problems when I return back to Holland.

Thanks in advance!

[Soutpeel]

how are you earning your money...this will have a bearing on how you set things up...

Be advised, if your paying Tax in Thailand, if its a reasonably large salary, you could be paying 25%-30% tax (look up the Thai tax tables for info)

but there are options

[BuangAva]

Hey soutpeel,

Yes I've read the Thai tax tables. I am a self employed seafarer, 25% - 30% is better than Dutch taxes but still not really as low as i want them to be.

What would be the best legal way to avoid (high) taxes? Is it possible to start a company in Singapore or Hong Kong, pay taxes there and live in Thailand or The Philippines?

My income will vary between US$ 80.000 and US$ 120.000 each year, mainly earned in the northsea. Which means I can't just "hide" the money in an offshore account.

Best regards.

[Soutpeel]

Hey soutpeel,

Yes I've read the Thai tax tables. I am a self employed seafarer, 25% - 30% is better than Dutch taxes but still not really as low as i want them to be.

What would be the best legal way to avoid (high) taxes? Is it possible to start a company in Singapore or Hong Kong, pay taxes there and live in Thailand or The Philippines?

My income will vary between US$ 80.000 and US$ 120.000 each year, mainly earned in the northsea. Which means I can't just "hide" the money in an offshore account.

Best regards.

In all honesty I don't know Dutch tax laws, and you are working in Europe, the best advice I could give is talk to a Dutch tax lawyer/advisor tell them your plan to move SEA, ie become Non-resident in Holland and find out what the options are

Starting a company in HK/Singapore and living in Thailand can be done, in fact I live in Thailand and get paid into Singapore, so that side of it wouldn't be a problem, but the bit I don't know is the Europe end, i.e. getting you money out without attracting tax as your work in Europe.

as an example, I was offered a job by a UK company on the North Sea a few years ago, I am non-resident in the UK, and I asked a similar question and they told me point blank, they would tax me via the UK tax system, so you do really need to find via the Dutch tax laws what you and cant get away with legally, as if you do something "shady" set up and a few years down the road the Dutch tax man is after you for back taxes, you don't need that..

sorry I cant be of more help on Dutch tax side of things...

[BuangAva]

Thx soutpeel, i dont work the uk sector so no need to worry about that. In Holland they will pay u as long as u have a registered company and a VAT number.

Did some research and phonecalls to Dutch tax advisory companies, looks like it's going to be a company in Seychelles Island and a bank account in Mauritius.

[jmccarty]

Open a personal account at HSBC in Singapore, get paid there. Singapore does not care if you do not reside there or get your income from there. Don't report it to any tax authority. It's none of their business if you are not tax resident in any particular country if they don't know about it. North sea is 186 days per 365 before you are liable for tax as a foreigner, don't exceed that in any period that can be connected. It is not fiscal or calendar dependent.

Why pay them for nothing in exchange, you get no citizen benefits, no retirement benefits, nothing!

If you give away your hard earned income to any old tax man that comes along, you are only a statistical check in a box!

Of course, speak to a tax advisor that assists seamen and other offshore workers, google and you will find one.

[BuangAva]

Yes but a singapore bankaccount wouldnt give me a vat number, which means no one will pay me.

Syechelles company with singapore bamkaccount is one of the other options.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jmccarty]

I work for a ship owner, we do not require a VAT number, just a name and account number. Not sure what sort of company or contract you have?

[BuangAva]

Freelance, no contracts.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jmccarty]

Freelance, no contracts.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Could not be easier!

[FrankH]

I work offshore in the North Sea on an oil rig and reside in Thailand I work through an agency as self employed, my money goes through the agency then to an accountant in Switzerland then into my British bank account....NO TAX to pay, what i earn I receive, I pay a small amount in bank charges and accountants fees.

[Robroona]

Open a personal account at HSBC in Singapore, get paid there. Singapore does not care if you do not reside there or get your income from there. Don't report it to any tax authority. It's none of their business if you are not tax resident in any particular country if they don't know about it. North sea is 186 days per 365 before you are liable for tax as a foreigner, don't exceed that in any period that can be connected. It is not fiscal or calendar dependent.

Why pay them for nothing in exchange, you get no citizen benefits, no retirement benefits, nothing!

If you give away your hard earned income to any old tax man that comes along, you are only a statistical check in a box!

Of course, speak to a tax advisor that assists seamen and other offshore workers, google and you will find one.

Quite difficult to open a bank account in Singapore if you are a foreigner without an address. My money is paid into HSBC Singapore, but rules changed shortly after I opened my account

[Robroona]

I work offshore in the North Sea on an oil rig and reside in Thailand I work through an agency as self employed, my money goes through the agency then to an accountant in Switzerland then into my British bank account....NO TAX to pay, what i earn I receive, I pay a small amount in bank charges and accountants fees.

I'd be careful with this now. The agency will be supplying details to HMRC of all their outgoing payments.

[Soutpeel]

Open a personal account at HSBC in Singapore, get paid there. Singapore does not care if you do not reside there or get your income from there. Don't report it to any tax authority. It's none of their business if you are not tax resident in any particular country if they don't know about it. North sea is 186 days per 365 before you are liable for tax as a foreigner, don't exceed that in any period that can be connected. It is not fiscal or calendar dependent.

Why pay them for nothing in exchange, you get no citizen benefits, no retirement benefits, nothing!

If you give away your hard earned income to any old tax man that comes along, you are only a statistical check in a box!

Of course, speak to a tax advisor that assists seamen and other offshore workers, google and you will find one.

Quite difficult to open a bank account in Singapore if you are a foreigner without an address. My money is paid into HSBC Singapore, but rules changed shortly after I opened my account

Its virtually impossible to open an account with a local Singapore bank if your nonresident, nothing to do with being a foreigner

it relatively easy to open a bank account with one of the multinationals, eg HSBC, Citi etc as a non resident, provided your not a US citizen or green card holder

The rules in Singapore haven't changed per se

[pgt99]

I

[ovtchae]

Dear All,

in 2017/2018 all (including Swiss) banks will start reporting bank accounts to the tax authorities of the country where the beneficial owner resides in.

So the question of bank account outside Thailand becomes irrelevant as the banks will inform the tax man in Thailand about your worldwide incomes.

The general question we have to ask is: if funds earned and kept outside Thailand are taxable in case we are tax residents in Thailand (more then 180 days)

Note: the banks start asking for your tax residence and your tax number and they will ask for this: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21978.0.html

The tax law say:

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an

aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a

resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal

income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived

from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived

outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the

same year in which such income is earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only

on income from sources within Thailand (irrespective of the place of payment).

Does someone knows is this applicable? Is Thailand a good place to save on taxes?

Does somebody know if offshore companies managed and controlled from a thai resident (but not getting any business/incomes from Thailand sources), taxable in Thailand.

Has somebody investigated this?

If somebody has some information, please email me on [email protected] or discuss it here.

Regards

[MadMac]

Simple construct. You reside in Thailand but work offshore. Your money is paid from the offshore company (not TH and not SG) into a bank account in Singapore. It is not taxable there as it is foreign sourced income. It is neither taxable in Thailand if it is not brought into the country.

[Soutpeel]

Dear All,

in 2017/2018 all (including Swiss) banks will start reporting bank accounts to the tax authorities of the country where the beneficial owner resides in.

So the question of bank account outside Thailand becomes irrelevant as the banks will inform the tax man in Thailand about your worldwide incomes.

The general question we have to ask is: if funds earned and kept outside Thailand are taxable in case we are tax residents in Thailand (more then 180 days)

Note: the banks start asking for your tax residence and your tax number and they will ask for this: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21978.0.html

The tax law say:

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an

aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a

resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal

income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived

from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived

outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the

same year in which such income is earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only

on income from sources within Thailand (irrespective of the place of payment).

Does someone knows is this applicable? Is Thailand a good place to save on taxes?

Does somebody know if offshore companies managed and controlled from a thai resident (but not getting any business/incomes from Thailand sources), taxable in Thailand.

Has somebody investigated this?

If somebody has some information, please email me on [email protected] or discuss it here.

Regards

What is source of your first statement....about "all banks will start reporting...."

Fact is Singapore will not report anything unless there is a court order

I think your referring to EU based banks

[Ponti001]

Dear All,

in 2017/2018 all (including Swiss) banks will start reporting bank accounts to the tax authorities of the country where the beneficial owner resides in.

So the question of bank account outside Thailand becomes irrelevant as the banks will inform the tax man in Thailand about your worldwide incomes.

The general question we have to ask is: if funds earned and kept outside Thailand are taxable in case we are tax residents in Thailand (more then 180 days)

Note: the banks start asking for your tax residence and your tax number and they will ask for this: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21978.0.html

The tax law say:

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an

aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a

resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal

income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived

from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived

outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the

same year in which such income is earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only

on income from sources within Thailand (irrespective of the place of payment).

Does someone knows is this applicable? Is Thailand a good place to save on taxes?

Does somebody know if offshore companies managed and controlled from a thai resident (but not getting any business/incomes from Thailand sources), taxable in Thailand.

Has somebody investigated this?

If somebody has some information, please email me on [email protected] or discuss it here.

Regards

What is source of your first statement....about "all banks will start reporting...."

Fact is Singapore will not report anything unless there is a court order

I think your referring to EU based banks

Some OECD report does mention automatic information exchange starting 2017.

[DirtyDan]

My banking has always been a mess and with this recent downturn in our patch, my tax situation may be changing as I may return to consulting but really don't want to leave the LoS. So I appreciate any insight.

FrankH, does your fancy Swiss system work if it's a direct pay-cheque being deposited or is it into an account owned by a registered business? If so, how do you get around the corporate tax?

If Thai tax is only paid on income coming into the Kingdom, what's the best way to bring in cash? Buy Baht at the foreign bank or possibly even gold coins? Has anyone ever been issued a tax bill for aggregate ATM withdrawals?

[Chuckles78]

...

The tax law say:

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an

aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a

resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal

income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived

from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived

outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the

same year in which such income is earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only

on income from sources within Thailand (irrespective of the place of payment)....

So if one can keep the income offshore until the following calendar year it can be brought in without paying Thai income tax.

Anyway, Is there a double tax treaty in Thailand?

[sikishrory]

On 24/05/2014 at 3:19 PM, jmccarty said:

Open a personal account at HSBC in Singapore, get paid there. Singapore does not care if you do not reside there or get your income from there. Don't report it to any tax authority. It's none of their business if you are not tax resident in any particular country if they don't know about it. North sea is 186 days per 365 before you are liable for tax as a foreigner, don't exceed that in any period that can be connected. It is not fiscal or calendar dependent.

Why pay them for nothing in exchange, you get no citizen benefits, no retirement benefits, nothing!

If you give away your hard earned income to any old tax man that comes along, you are only a statistical check in a box!

Of course, speak to a tax advisor that assists seamen and other offshore workers, google and you will find one.

That may ne the case for some countries but I know in Australia for example there is a law stating that australians that are non residents must be therefore tax paying residents of another country. Of course they cant do much about it unless you do return back there. However if you return home and get audited and they ask to see your tax returns filed while non resident and you say its none of their business, then I think you would be in for a rude awakening. I suspect other countries are the same.

Its a very complex issue for seafarers.

[CGW]

Everyone is in a different situation! - no shit Sherlock!!

I disagree with a lot written here, hearsay is becoming "facts'

 

I have lived here for 30 years, the only time I (the company) has paid Thai taxes is when I have been working inside Thailand and being paid from "employer" in Thailand, even then only a small percentage was paid into a Thai bank the rest was paid out of Dubai into a IOM account.

The "UK' banks have to know where your taxation base is? I was asked this question within the last six months, my reply to them (after taking advice) was I am resident in Thailand and as such I do Not need to register for taxes! - end of story!

Clear as mud?

Thai taxation is not interested in transients - at this time! hell they only collect taxes from ~10% of the population, they need to work on that before worrying about us!

As stated Singapore bank accounts are not as easy to open as people make out!

Also important that you tell your home country you are leaving, then you have to be out a year, but again gets complex.....

I think it is easy for you to reside in Thailand "tax free" if your not resident in EU your not liable for taxes, but your contract cannot be PAYE or whatever the term is, you have to be paid from a country that doesn't deduct any tax at source.

[Naam]

On 10/7/2015 at 11:50 PM, MadMac said:

Simple construct. You reside in Thailand but work offshore. Your money is paid from the offshore company (not TH and not SG) into a bank account in Singapore. It is not taxable there as it is foreign sourced income. It is neither taxable in Thailand if it is not brought into the country.

correct! 

 

[Naam]

On 10/7/2015 at 11:43 PM, ovtchae said:

However, the imposition of tax on income derived

outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the

same year in which such income is earned.

caveat! this is the how it is practised. since a couple of years one does not find this "exclusion" in any government publication.

[Naam]

On 1/1/2016 at 2:40 AM, Chuckles78 said:

So if one can keep the income offshore until the following calendar year it can be brought in without paying Thai income tax.

Anyway, Is there a double tax treaty in Thailand?

any existing double tax agreement is irrelevant if the income is not taxed abroad.

[CGW]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

any existing double tax agreement is irrelevant if the income is not taxed abroad.

Question, - " any existing double tax agreement is irrelevant if the income is not taxed abroad " yes accepted, but that then implies that you could be taxed as the income has not previously been taxed?

But if there is no requirement whatsoever to declare your income or "contribute" to the tax system in Thailand, they would never be any wiser! & as far as I know they have never tried in any way to enforce this fact?

If you were a PR and had to declare your income I can see this would be an issue, but to the best of my knowledge this is not & has never been a requirement?

[Naam]

3 hours ago, CGW said:

Question, - " any existing double tax agreement is irrelevant if the income is not taxed abroad " yes accepted, but that then implies that you could be taxed as the income has not previously been taxed?

But if there is no requirement whatsoever to declare your income or "contribute" to the tax system in Thailand, they would never be any wiser! & as far as I know they have never tried in any way to enforce this fact?

If you were a PR and had to declare your income I can see this would be an issue, but to the best of my knowledge this is not & has never been a requirement?

Quote

But if there is no requirement whatsoever to declare your income or "contribute" to the tax system in Thailand

that requirement does exist! read loud and slowly

Quote

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

[CGW]

9 hours ago, Naam said:

that requirement does exist! read loud and slowly

 

You should have added "read repeatedly" which I did and it finally clicked!

Which means that all who are on a retirement visa (staying over 180 days) are liable for taxes, interesting......................

[MadMac]

Just an example, you have under 22k SGD income in SG, paid from anywhere, interest, investment, whatsoever. This is the current threshhold for not being taxed. You could still declare this in SG and pay no tax, even though they tell you not to do it. The Thais now want you to tax on that, because you sent all of it into your Thai bank account. They still could not get a single cent of it as it falls under the double tax agreement. If you would not have declared it in SG, TH may take its stake.