Legally work as a freelance programmer in Thailand

[arnold40844]

The sad reality is that in your situation there is no practical way to operate here legally.In my opinion this issue needs to be addressed and when they get around to it the Thai economy will benefit massively, Under current laws there are countless people working illegally who are more than willing and actively seeking ways to operate legitamately and in many cases would pay 20 tiimes the tax a Thai would be liable for. "ALL" these new crack downs address different kinds of worker, the ones who get paid in THB on resorts or setup businesses here that focus on the Thai market place.

Unfortunately if you're an Author, Business Consultant, Programmer, Researcher or any kind of Freelancer there is very little in the way of a solution. Sure you can pay the piper, set up a mickey mouse company, fraudulantly employ 5 people that dont exist whilst registering enough capital that does'nt exist either so you can get a work permit which then may still be refused after months of grief and fees, meanwhile if this all goes through okay the best you can hope for is 49% ownership of your own company and assets. This option may be quite attractive if you want to grow a business in Thailand but for a freelancer to operate legitimately its a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I think a big part of the issue lies with the fact that key decision makers in governement seem almost unaware that these lines of work exist and the fact that a programmer can earn upwards of 30K THB per day working from anywhere in the world, im sure things will change soon enough...

Edited May 20, 2014 by arnold40844

[AYJAYDEE]

The sad reality is that in your situation there is no practical way to operate here legally.In my opinion this issue needs to be addressed and when they get around to it the Thai economy will benefit massively, Under current laws there are countless people working illegally who are more than willing and actively seeking ways to operate legitamately and in many cases would pay 20 tiimes the tax a Thai would be liable for. "ALL" these new crack downs address different kinds of worker, the ones who get paid in THB on resorts or setup businesses here that focus on the Thai market place.

Unfortunately if you're an Author, Business Consultant, Programmer, Researcher or any kind of Freelancer there is very little in the way of a solution. Sure you can pay the piper, set up a mickey mouse company, fraudulantly employ 5 people that dont exist whilst registering enough capital that does'nt exist either so you can get a work permit which then may still be refused after months of grief and fees, meanwhile if this all goes through okay the best you can hope for is 49% ownership of your own company and assets. This option may be quite attractive if you want to grow a business in Thailand but for a freelancer to operate legitimately its a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I think a big part of the issue lies with the fact that key decision makers in governement seem almost unaware that these lines of work exist and the fact that a programmer can earn upwards of 30K THB per day working from anywhere in the world, im sure things will change soon enough...

does your home country allow just anybody to come and live full time and work as a freelancer? mine sure doesnt.

[KamalaRider]

I'm almost in the same situation but my clients are in HK and Australia.

I've got my own company here with employees and pay taxes here in Thailand.

I'm also Swedish and if you want to PM me, feel free to do so.

Don't listen to people who try to convince you to not get a work permit.

Work permit carries so many benefits it will be worth the hassle.

If I was you, I would look into starting an offshore company in Singapore,

open a branch in Thailand so you can get a work permit,

I think ASEAN will benefit you if you do, but I recommend you to talk to a business lawyer first.

[Boatfreak]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

-------------------

The irony of it is that (as we both know) the Thai tax rate he would pay is lower than in Sweden.

Except it's not legal here in Thailand for him to work that way without a work permit.

If the Thais made it legal for him to work here in Thailand as a "self-employed foreigner with income from outside of Thailand" then:

• He would benefit from a lower tax rate on his income
• Thailand would benefit from the tax revenue they would get
• And if he lived here and paid rent and such for his living expenses here in Thailand, then the Thai economy would benefit directly from what he spent here.
• So it would be a win-win situation..... with both him and the Thai government benefiting from "winning"

But no, it won't happen because of the "rules".

"Amazing" Thailand.

does your home country allow just anyone to come and live there full time and work as a freelancer?

Probably not but they certainly will not ask you to employ 4 Swedish people to start a business. Also most countries (don't know about Sweden) will have something as a special skill permit. If you are a nurse, doctor, welder, or other highly needed skill you will get a permit based on that. Thailand is really in need of some specialized skills they know that but still they will not let a farang start a specialized business without him employing 4 Thais and going for a 2 million baht company. This only works against job creation instead of job protection. Edited May 20, 2014 by Boatfreak

[AYJAYDEE]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

-------------------

The irony of it is that (as we both know) the Thai tax rate he would pay is lower than in Sweden.

Except it's not legal here in Thailand for him to work that way without a work permit.

If the Thais made it legal for him to work here in Thailand as a "self-employed foreigner with income from outside of Thailand" then:

• He would benefit from a lower tax rate on his income
• Thailand would benefit from the tax revenue they would get
• And if he lived here and paid rent and such for his living expenses here in Thailand, then the Thai economy would benefit directly from what he spent here.
• So it would be a win-win situation..... with both him and the Thai government benefiting from "winning"

But no, it won't happen because of the "rules".

"Amazing" Thailand.

does your home country allow just anyone to come and live there full time and work as a freelancer?

Probably not but they certainly will not ask you to employ 4 Swedish people to start a business. Also most countries (don't know about Sweden) will have something as a special skill permit. If you are a nurse, doctor, welder, or other highly needed skill you will get a permit based on that. Thailand is really in need of some specialized skills they know that but still they will not let a farang start a specialized business without him employing 4 Thais and going for a 2 million baht company. This only works against job creation instead of job protection.

I'm sure thailand appreciates your concern.

[arnold40844]

Where I come from its a lot less black and white. Visa's are based on the type of work you are doing as well as a whole host of options like going through Contractor Management companies.

I think most contractors here should qualify as Highly Skilled Tier 1 immmigrants, especially when you take their earnings in to account.

All im saying is that Thailand is shooting itself in the foot here. If there was a government controlled Contract Management firm here that sponsors the Visas of Freelancers who earn more that 1.5M THB per year, get the freelancers to agree to transparency around their business, invoices etc and most importantly pay tax. Everyone would benefit from this sitaution.

It would be interesting to do a bit of a case study on how many people fit this situation, if its upwards of 10,000 people revenue to the Kingdom would be in excess of 5 Billion Baht. All these people are going to stay here anyway using backhanders to extend their stay.

The sad reality is that in your situation there is no practical way to operate here legally.In my opinion this issue needs to be addressed and when they get around to it the Thai economy will benefit massively, Under current laws there are countless people working illegally who are more than willing and actively seeking ways to operate legitamately and in many cases would pay 20 tiimes the tax a Thai would be liable for. "ALL" these new crack downs address different kinds of worker, the ones who get paid in THB on resorts or setup businesses here that focus on the Thai market place.

Unfortunately if you're an Author, Business Consultant, Programmer, Researcher or any kind of Freelancer there is very little in the way of a solution. Sure you can pay the piper, set up a mickey mouse company, fraudulantly employ 5 people that dont exist whilst registering enough capital that does'nt exist either so you can get a work permit which then may still be refused after months of grief and fees, meanwhile if this all goes through okay the best you can hope for is 49% ownership of your own company and assets. This option may be quite attractive if you want to grow a business in Thailand but for a freelancer to operate legitimately its a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I think a big part of the issue lies with the fact that key decision makers in governement seem almost unaware that these lines of work exist and the fact that a programmer can earn upwards of 30K THB per day working from anywhere in the world, im sure things will change soon enough...

does your home country allow just anybody to come and live full time and work as a freelancer? mine sure doesnt.

[Pattaya46]

There is a BOI company set up precisely for what you wish.

They employ you.. They get you a B visa and a work permit, they can process extensions, they pay your taxes and social security, zero rated VAT accounts, they do everything.. You just work.

They charge 25% of your income, and with this 25% they pay your income tax bills (up to something like 8 or 9k USD per month.. after that the tax rate is too high, they actually lose money).

Your legal, you pay tax, you can show your tax records to sweden so as not to pay double.

Its perfect and its cheap !!

Sounds very interesting.

Could you please tell us more about that way ?

Or a link on www.boi.go.th or other official Thai site ?

[LivinLOS]

PM me your contact info, email or facebook and I will pass you their info.

[arnold40844]

I looked in to going down the representative office route but was told by a lawyer that it was unlikely to go be successful based on the current needs of my company. You need to prove things like sourcing goods from Thailand, Quality Management of exports etc.

I'm almost in the same situation but my clients are in HK and Australia.

I've got my own company here with employees and pay taxes here in Thailand.

I'm also Swedish and if you want to PM me, feel free to do so.

Don't listen to people who try to convince you to not get a work permit.

Work permit carries so many benefits it will be worth the hassle.

If I was you, I would look into starting an offshore company in Singapore,

open a branch in Thailand so you can get a work permit,

I think ASEAN will benefit you if you do, but I recommend you to talk to a business lawyer first.

[stevenl]

Legally you are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit, which you need to get through a Thai company.

As you already found most people in your case opt for doing it illegally and just work at home without telling anyone. That does give visa problems and studying is one way people handle that.

That's so strange, i would GLADLY pay tax here instead of in Sweden... If they just let me..

I think you can. Go to the tax office, tell them you'd like a number, tell them how much you make and they can charge you.

Then you tell the Swedish tax department you're paying taxes in Thailand (is there a tax agreement between Sweden and Thailand ti avoid paying double taxes?).

Unfortunately even if you do this it does not help the visa situation - to extend a non-b you need a work permit to back up Thai tax receipts, which entails employing locals, etc. etc.

I explored the possibility of registering as a sole provider a few years back but this is not allowed. I should add I am in the IT industry as well.

Agree, but that was not what the OP was asking in the post I responded to.

Edited May 20, 2014 by stevenl

[Boatfreak]

I am a freelance CE inspector accredited by the European Commission. My approvals and CE certificates allow the producer to export their product to the European Economic Area. I travel very much around the world to deliver these certificates and since O had quite a lot of customers in Asia decided to have a base in Thailand. In my previous country all I had to do is have the figures of how many million dollars of export had been generated by my clients in exports to Europe and that resulted in a special skills Visa. Here the immigration had absolutely no interest in my added value for the country and the economy. Do I take a job away from a Thai? No but a lot will lose theirs if they can't export.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Boatfreak

[belg]

make sure you use a VPN service with IP outside of Thailand for your "remote" work

[stevenl]

The sad reality is that in your situation there is no practical way to operate here legally.In my opinion this issue needs to be addressed and when they get around to it the Thai economy will benefit massively, Under current laws there are countless people working illegally who are more than willing and actively seeking ways to operate legitamately and in many cases would pay 20 tiimes the tax a Thai would be liable for. "ALL" these new crack downs address different kinds of worker, the ones who get paid in THB on resorts or setup businesses here that focus on the Thai market place.

Unfortunately if you're an Author, Business Consultant, Programmer, Researcher or any kind of Freelancer there is very little in the way of a solution. Sure you can pay the piper, set up a mickey mouse company, fraudulantly employ 5 people that dont exist whilst registering enough capital that does'nt exist either so you can get a work permit which then may still be refused after months of grief and fees, meanwhile if this all goes through okay the best you can hope for is 49% ownership of your own company and assets. This option may be quite attractive if you want to grow a business in Thailand but for a freelancer to operate legitimately its a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I think a big part of the issue lies with the fact that key decision makers in governement seem almost unaware that these lines of work exist and the fact that a programmer can earn upwards of 30K THB per day working from anywhere in the world, im sure things will change soon enough...

Yes, there are practical ways, but those ways require different choices. Stating 'I will not employ anybody' pretty much excludes other options.

[AYJAYDEE]

I am a freelance CE inspector accredited by the European Commission. My approvals and CE certificates allow the producer to export their product to the European Economic Area. I travel very much around the world to deliver these certificates and since O had quite a lot of customers in Asia decided to have a base in Thailand. In my previous country all I had to do is have the figures of how many million dollars of export had been generated by my clients in exports to Europe and that resulted in a special skills Visa. Here the immigration had absolutely no interest in my added value for the country and the economy. Do I take a job away from a Thai? No but a lot will lose theirs if they can't export.

so does thailand allow any CE inspection?

[Soutpeel]

From a law firm: "While Thai law does require anyone working in Thailand to have a work permit we have been told by the Labor Department that they generally do not require a work permit for those checking emails and doing some work from home remotely. However, if you are selling on Ebay and have boxes of goods in your home this would be looked at in a different light and we have been told that they would expect you to have a company and work permit for this kind of exporting."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/570294-sunbelt-can-you-weigh-in-on-this-topic/

It is the same if you are an author writing books and selling them online. Hardly a target to go after.

And you will notice, both the lawyers concerned and DOL, which one BTW ? have given none definitive answers...

But in the same vein my dear Timwin, Phuket DOL appears to disagree.

Internet working

I am a commodity trader and use the Internet for my work. My financial dealings are conducted in Australia. I am thinking of coming to Thailand to stay for short time – about three months. My question is, can I still do my trading via the Internet in Thailand without breaking any laws? Theoretically, I shan't be working in Thailand.

-Travelling Trader, Perth, Western Australia

“To do any work in Thailand you must either set up a company or partnership and apply for a work prmit, or find someone willing to employ you and to apply for a work permit for you. Otherwise you will be working illegally.

We suggest that you do not work during your three-month stay in Phuket.”

Phuket Provincial Employment Services Office

[CharlesHH]

1. Many Thailand laws exist so that if needed they can be applied; otherwise ignored.

2. Secret to living in Thailand for foreigner is KEEP A LOW PROFILE. You are only in jeopardy if someone makes an official complaint about you to a Thailand enforcement agency like police, etc.

[LivinLOS]

I believe the gazette also ran an issues and answers stating the opposite that you could buy / sell shares while here ?? I will have a dig..

Of course the difference like share dealing v commodity dealing v spread betting v futures is so slim its hard to have them understand. Spread betting (making a bet on the direction of a price) is considered gambling and illegal, yet futures trading (making a bet on the future price of an item) is legal. Makes zero sense as they are basically the same equivalent financial instrument. Merely one has the name 'betting' in it, which Thailand doesnt like.

[Soutpeel]

Has anybody notice how many threads have popped up over the last couple of days...regarding this On-line thing once the enforcement of the visa rules was announced ???

One suspects there are numerous posters on TV "bricking" themselves right now, as they are working illegally and they know it.

[LivinLOS]

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1237

Do I need a work permit to play the stock market?

I am a foreigner living in Thailand with my Thai wife and our children. I have a non-immigrant "O" visa. I hear horrible stories about work permits, the different interpretations of “work” and the consequences of not having a permit. These stories include being blacklisted regardless of your family ties and investments in Thailand.

I don’t want to work here illegally. I love Thailand, its culture and the locals. I want to abide by the country’s laws. I am a private online investor in stocks, commodities and currencies in foreign markets. I work from my home here in Thailand.

Setting up a Thai company is not an option. I want to avoid any misinterpretation by labor departments and/or immigration authorities and also any dangers to my family by not abiding by local laws.

I’ve searched the web and asked various lawyers, but still have not received a comprehensive answer.

All my investment accounts, stock exchanges and brokers are located outside of Thailand. Is my work legal? Do I need to apply for any type of work permit?

Worried private investor in Thailand Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM “Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work. As long as you are not working, you do not need to apply for a work permit.

For example. If you are a shareholder or an executive of a company, but you do not sign documents related to the daily functions of that company, you do not need a work permit.

However, you must pay income tax if you receive a stock dividend.

The only documentation we are authorized to issue to foreigners working here is a work permit. If you do not work, there is no official documentation that can be issued to you.” Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM Noppadol Ployudee, chief of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office. -

Of course "Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work" completely misses the point of Stock 'trading'..

Another aspect that is pitifully defined.

[Soutpeel]

I believe the gazette also ran an issues and answers stating the opposite that you could buy / sell shares while here ?? I will have a dig..

Of course the difference like share dealing v commodity dealing v spread betting v futures is so slim its hard to have them understand. Spread betting (making a bet on the direction of a price) is considered gambling and illegal, yet futures trading (making a bet on the future price of an item) is legal. Makes zero sense as they are basically the same equivalent financial instrument. Merely one has the name 'betting' in it, which Thailand doesnt like.

although I take your point, I also believe you are rationalizing things to a degree, do you really think the DOL has looked at this question in that sort of depth to differentiate between the two ? one thinks not

Fact is under the current rules, the official's/ DOL department concerned it the area that your living can decide what is or isn't working relative to their area of authority, therefore its entirely conceivable that one DOL says some thing is ok, while another says it not.

However one suspects in an areas where they have said its "OK" they will not issue a letter or document to that effect ?....as I have challenged many posters over the years on this subject, if the DOL or lawyers have said you don't need a WP, surely they would issue a document stating that then ?

Make sense ? surely if you need a document which states your legally allowed to work ie WP, surely if there where conditions were you didn't need one they would issue a document which states "WP exemption" ...as we do know how they love their paperwork in Thailand

And maybe the authorities themselves realize this, hence the reason for the visa "crackdown"...

[stevenl]

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1237

Do I need a work permit to play the stock market?

I am a foreigner living in Thailand with my Thai wife and our children. I have a non-immigrant "O" visa. I hear horrible stories about work permits, the different interpretations of “work” and the consequences of not having a permit. These stories include being blacklisted regardless of your family ties and investments in Thailand.

I don’t want to work here illegally. I love Thailand, its culture and the locals. I want to abide by the country’s laws. I am a private online investor in stocks, commodities and currencies in foreign markets. I work from my home here in Thailand.

Setting up a Thai company is not an option. I want to avoid any misinterpretation by labor departments and/or immigration authorities and also any dangers to my family by not abiding by local laws.

I’ve searched the web and asked various lawyers, but still have not received a comprehensive answer.

All my investment accounts, stock exchanges and brokers are located outside of Thailand. Is my work legal? Do I need to apply for any type of work permit?

Worried private investor in Thailand Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM “Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work. As long as you are not working, you do not need to apply for a work permit.

For example. If you are a shareholder or an executive of a company, but you do not sign documents related to the daily functions of that company, you do not need a work permit.

However, you must pay income tax if you receive a stock dividend.

The only documentation we are authorized to issue to foreigners working here is a work permit. If you do not work, there is no official documentation that can be issued to you.” Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM Noppadol Ployudee, chief of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office. -

Of course "Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work" completely misses the point of Stock 'trading'..

Another aspect that is pitifully defined.

And this answer makes sense (although it does not answer the question). Stock investment is not work, stock trading is.

[LivinLOS]

I would agree it would constitute work.. But its just another vague law, with poor consistency, and even worse understanding of enforcement. If the people enforcing the laws cannot get it right per a definition, what hope does anyone else have.

Even the very definition of 'work' is a joke.. They use the word 'work' within the definition of the term 'work'.. Someone needs to go back and do logic 101.

[LivinLOS]

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1237

Do I need a work permit to play the stock market?

I am a foreigner living in Thailand with my Thai wife and our children. I have a non-immigrant "O" visa. I hear horrible stories about work permits, the different interpretations of “work” and the consequences of not having a permit. These stories include being blacklisted regardless of your family ties and investments in Thailand.

I don’t want to work here illegally. I love Thailand, its culture and the locals. I want to abide by the country’s laws. I am a private online investor in stocks, commodities and currencies in foreign markets. I work from my home here in Thailand.

Setting up a Thai company is not an option. I want to avoid any misinterpretation by labor departments and/or immigration authorities and also any dangers to my family by not abiding by local laws.

I’ve searched the web and asked various lawyers, but still have not received a comprehensive answer.

All my investment accounts, stock exchanges and brokers are located outside of Thailand. Is my work legal? Do I need to apply for any type of work permit?

Worried private investor in Thailand Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM “Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work. As long as you are not working, you do not need to apply for a work permit.

For example. If you are a shareholder or an executive of a company, but you do not sign documents related to the daily functions of that company, you do not need a work permit.

However, you must pay income tax if you receive a stock dividend.

The only documentation we are authorized to issue to foreigners working here is a work permit. If you do not work, there is no official documentation that can be issued to you.” Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM Noppadol Ployudee, chief of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office. -

Of course "Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work" completely misses the point of Stock 'trading'..

Another aspect that is pitifully defined.

And this answer makes sense (although it does not answer the question). Stock investment is not work, stock trading is.

And what would differentiate the 2 ??

To invest in stocks you must buy and sell them no ??

[belg]

afther the visa runners, immigration might have a go at all those "website developpers" working illegaly ...

and apparently, there are quiete a few members here that seem to be involved ...

next thing : police are checking farang houses / telephone lines and internet connections with a lot of upload / download activities / ftp connections

[stevenl]

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1237

Do I need a work permit to play the stock market?

I am a foreigner living in Thailand with my Thai wife and our children. I have a non-immigrant "O" visa. I hear horrible stories about work permits, the different interpretations of “work” and the consequences of not having a permit. These stories include being blacklisted regardless of your family ties and investments in Thailand.

I don’t want to work here illegally. I love Thailand, its culture and the locals. I want to abide by the country’s laws. I am a private online investor in stocks, commodities and currencies in foreign markets. I work from my home here in Thailand.

Setting up a Thai company is not an option. I want to avoid any misinterpretation by labor departments and/or immigration authorities and also any dangers to my family by not abiding by local laws.

I’ve searched the web and asked various lawyers, but still have not received a comprehensive answer.

All my investment accounts, stock exchanges and brokers are located outside of Thailand. Is my work legal? Do I need to apply for any type of work permit?

Worried private investor in Thailand Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM “Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work. As long as you are not working, you do not need to apply for a work permit.

For example. If you are a shareholder or an executive of a company, but you do not sign documents related to the daily functions of that company, you do not need a work permit.

However, you must pay income tax if you receive a stock dividend.

The only documentation we are authorized to issue to foreigners working here is a work permit. If you do not work, there is no official documentation that can be issued to you.” Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:33:29 PM Noppadol Ployudee, chief of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office. -

Of course "Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work" completely misses the point of Stock 'trading'..

Another aspect that is pitifully defined.

And this answer makes sense (although it does not answer the question). Stock investment is not work, stock trading is.

And what would differentiate the 2 ??

To invest in stocks you must buy and sell them no ??

If you have a stock portfolio without trading, no work, if you're trading, work.

[LivinLOS]

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1237

Of course "Stock investment is not lawfully defined as work" completely misses the point of Stock 'trading'..

Another aspect that is pitifully defined.

And this answer makes sense (although it does not answer the question). Stock investment is not work, stock trading is.

And what would differentiate the 2 ??

To invest in stocks you must buy and sell them no ??

If you have a stock portfolio without trading, no work, if you're trading, work.

To own and realize a profit on any stock position you must buy it and sell it correct ?? Or sell it and later buy it if short.

The question is not "does anyone who owns stocks need a work permit to even come into the country" !!!

The question is can a stock portfolio be managed while in the country without a work permit.

Edited May 20, 2014 by LivinLOS

[stevenl]

And this answer makes sense (although it does not answer the question). Stock investment is not work, stock trading is.

And what would differentiate the 2 ??

To invest in stocks you must buy and sell them no ??

If you have a stock portfolio without trading, no work, if you're trading, work.

To own and realize a profit on any stock position you must buy it and sell it correct ?? Or sell it and later buy it if short.

The question is not "does anyone who owns stocks need a work permit to even come into the country" !!!

The question is can a stock portfolio be managed while in the country without a work permit.

That question was answered already.

Of course one can have a stock portfolio in Thailand without having to trade. Look at it from a work perspective, not from a 'whatever they say I am against it' perspective, and not from a stocktrading perspective.

If you're selling/buying you're working, if you're just sitting on it you're not working.

[arnold40844]

I don't doubt for a second that there are ways of doing this, I have explored them all. By practical I just mean what use does a Java Developer have for 5 Thai employees...... Its making the assumption that you want to scale up the business and also commercial office space is also a requirement. This is not the direction that everyone want to take their Freelance career, there is a big difference between being a Freelancer and Managing Director of a growing company.

The sad reality is that in your situation there is no practical way to operate here legally.In my opinion this issue needs to be addressed and when they get around to it the Thai economy will benefit massively, Under current laws there are countless people working illegally who are more than willing and actively seeking ways to operate legitamately and in many cases would pay 20 tiimes the tax a Thai would be liable for. "ALL" these new crack downs address different kinds of worker, the ones who get paid in THB on resorts or setup businesses here that focus on the Thai market place.

Unfortunately if you're an Author, Business Consultant, Programmer, Researcher or any kind of Freelancer there is very little in the way of a solution. Sure you can pay the piper, set up a mickey mouse company, fraudulantly employ 5 people that dont exist whilst registering enough capital that does'nt exist either so you can get a work permit which then may still be refused after months of grief and fees, meanwhile if this all goes through okay the best you can hope for is 49% ownership of your own company and assets. This option may be quite attractive if you want to grow a business in Thailand but for a freelancer to operate legitimately its a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I think a big part of the issue lies with the fact that key decision makers in governement seem almost unaware that these lines of work exist and the fact that a programmer can earn upwards of 30K THB per day working from anywhere in the world, im sure things will change soon enough...

Yes, there are practical ways, but those ways require different choices. Stating 'I will not employ anybody' pretty much excludes other options.

[LivinLOS]

To own and realize a profit on any stock position you must buy it and sell it correct ?? Or sell it and later buy it if short.

The question is not "does anyone who owns stocks need a work permit to even come into the country" !!!

The question is can a stock portfolio be managed while in the country without a work permit.

That question was answered already.

Of course one can have a stock portfolio in Thailand without having to trade. Look at it from a work perspective, not from a 'whatever they say I am against it' perspective, and not from a stocktrading perspective.

If you're selling/buying you're working, if you're just sitting on it you're not working.

So your saying someone on a long stay visa needs to leave the country to make a sale and realize a profit on their investment ??

You believe that to be a legal requirement.

[arnold40844]

I would agree it would constitute work.. But its just another vague law, with poor consistency, and even worse understanding of enforcement. If the people enforcing the laws cannot get it right per a definition, what hope does anyone else have.

Even the very definition of 'work' is a joke.. They use the word 'work' within the definition of the term 'work'.. Someone needs to go back and do logic 101.

Exactly. By the definition as stated in the Thai immigration policy millions of tourists are breaking the law when they check or respond to emails or have to make a call to the office.

It is a joke, the definition is covers everything from running a gogo bar to helping the house maid hang out washing.

I am sure they will get around to rewriting it at some point. Personally I fail to see any economic downside to allowing well paid, tax paying professionals to work in Thailand. There is a serious problem in this country with the 5+ million people working illegally (estimated as of 2005), but the problem does not lye with Freelance IT professionals and freelance business consultant that are more than willing to pay tax.