Facts: Q&A on Thai military coup

[cpofc]

No football, no TV, no bars, no Karaokes, home by 2200

it will be interesting to see the spike in infant births early in the new year 2015

[Amavel]

Until you have an election there is no legitimacy to the government or the economy. Foreign investment which is necessary to the economy will dwindle which in turn will dwindle the emerging middle class in Thailand. Thailand will not be able to compete with the economies of other ASEAN nations that DO have an emerging middle class.

No elections, no Democracy, no legitimacy, no investment, no economic growth, no future.

[gchurch259]

I like CharlesHH and djjamie's posts.

Education, or lack there of is large part of the problem here. There is nothing wrong with have little education as long as you have common sense, which is enhanced with education. Thailand has a law that all children are to have 12 years of education, which is not enforced in a majority of the country. The farmer family I married into out of twenty members most have 4 to 6 years. Three years after I married my wife (6years of education) the first person ever in the history of the family completed high school. My wife and i helped her finish college.

In the Southern US during the Slavery Period must all owners refused to allow their slaves an education. There are cultures/religions today the do not believe women should be educated. They, like the Plantatiion Owners believed they can keep people in servitude if you keep them uneducated.

Many times in the history of the world the conquers distroyed the books for that purpose.

I like John Waynes quote, "Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid". Sometimes prople are stupid they just have not broadened their horizons/minds with education or common sense.

Still no good TV, going to bed. Goodnight, Jerry

[tullynagardy]

Q&A according to The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21602759-sudden-move-army-brings-only-near-term-calm-path-throne

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Great article

Dont let djjamie or scamper see it, they still think this was all about corruption and 15 principles

[heybruce]

I have a strong feeling it is not going to be as cut and dry as it seems. TVF posters of both colors are going to make more yellow chardonnay and red lambrusco whine than a cohort of Etruscans could guzzle at a bacchanalia.

The general knows how to play a dangerous game and win. Concrete reforms will be implemented, with transparency, and then there will be elections. I expect a five year ban on a wide swath of people on both sides of the fence will be part of all that. It's a shame General Prayuth probably will not initiate a lifetime ban for certain offenses, like corruption, but that I believe is inevitable in SE Asia, where everyone simultaneously wants to benefit from corruption and do away with it.

Then the man in Dubai will establish new connections, set up a new 'party', and the game will repeat itself.

Because neither side wants to implement changes that would limit their own power in the future (a problem enjoyed by all sides in democracies worldwide), I see this as a short-term peace, which is dreadful. I welcome peace, but regret it will be a short-lived brainchild.

I do relish the thought of radical leaders from both sides being in protective custody for a protracted period and spending quality time. I would give my left hand to be a fly on the wall while that is going on.

"with transparency"? When has any leader from either camp, or the military, suggested bringing transparency to government? They know what it is, many of them were educated in the west, but transparency would upset too many apple carts.

The 1997 constitution was written to strengthen democratic government in order to end a succession of weak and ineffective coalition governments. The powers that be didn't like the results and so wrote the 2007 constitution with the idea of weakening democratic government, and the results speak for themselves. I suspect the intent now is to write a constitution that gives the appearance of democratic government without letting elected politicians have any real power. However there will be internal and external pressure for more real democracy, not less. In addition, as the Economist article in Iaban's post indicates, there are other significant potential complications. Interesting times ahead.

[heybruce]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Those "Facts" are mentioned ALL THE TIME! By the way Leekpai set up the health scheme - Thaksin just took credit for it and bungled the budgeting causing rural (read: poor area) clinic and hospitals to collapse.

Are you suggesting kids didn't go to school before 2001? Are you suggesting the poor got wealthier during his administration? Compared to whom - the rich/poor gap didn't exactly close did it. Lending poor people money with little control sure does give them more money for a while - until the bank wants to be repaid and the land they lived on for generations is taken and rented back to them!

Also...

Transparency International's CPI (what you are talking about) is heavily criticised : From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International

The Corruption Perceptions Index has received criticisms over the years. The main one stems from the difficulty in measuring corruption, which by definition happens behind the scenes. The Corruption Perceptions Index therefore needs to rely on third-party survey which have been criticized as potentially unreliable. Data can vary widely depending on the public perception of a country, the completeness of the surveys and the methodology used. The second issue is that data cannot be compared from year to year because Transparency International uses different methodologies and samples every year. This makes it difficult to evaluate the result of new policies.The Corruption Perceptions Index authors replied to these criticisms by reminding that the Corruption Perceptions Index is meant to measure perception and not "reality". They argue that "perceptions matter in their own right, since... firms and individuals take actions based on perceptions

A big problem with it wrt Thailand is that many people believe that some corruption is fine, so would give a low rating of corruption where it is not overt - whereas in western countries the opposite is true. Also comparing year on year index positions is flawed as above - so not weight to your argument there either.

Debt to GDP does not signify less debt - actually thanks to schemes such as the village loan scheme, personal debt rose dramatically during his administration - however, so did the GDP (it had to - it was on the way out of the Tiger Crash!).

So the Transparency International Corruption Perception Index is an imperfect measure of corruption. Do you know of a better measure? Corrupt people don't let do-gooders audit their books. Transparency International does the best it can, and the results are generally accepted as the best available measure of corruption.

However if you do know of a more credible measure of corruption, please share it with us. It is important to quantify a problem in order to determine how to deal with it and if you are making progress in resolving it.

On another note:

"The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship."

Get real; the PTP won the 2011 election. It was monitored by the ANFREL and they concluded that while it wasn't perfect the results were legitimate. Lots of people on TV forum insist the election was somehow fraudulent but nobody provides any credible evidence. As to the dictatorship claim, check your dictionaries, I think you'll find that governments that step aside and offer new elections are not dictatorships. The PTP won, the Democrats lost, it was the people's democratic choice and Orwellian lies will not change the facts.

[Roadman]

A fair enough opinion piece with a few debatable points until one again reads this garbage..... "to curb the political dominance of Thaksin and his allies."

Try the reality to remove a corrupt and lawless regime. Have no problem with the Shinawatra's and their lackeys complete incompetence for which elections are the fair response but when corruption is spinning out of control and laws and their checks and balances are being dismantled and the government of the day are applying one rule to all those who oppose while they themselves consider themselves above the law and the country is run by a peoples court convicted fugitive criminal then the use of "curb" is absolutely pathetic and shows the complete ignorance of the western media to Thailand's political handicap.

As many thai's and westerners alike who are for the removal of these Shinawatra thieves of democracy and for thai's who are sick to death of seeing their taxes and country bled for the latest in line of just another elitist family's gain there is no issue if Pheau Thai dominant the thai political landscape. The issue is governance for all thai's to benefit and for Thailand to progress democratically. And that is where the Dubai criminal has let Thailand down dismally and deserves the life long ban from the KIngdom that he has accepted.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Roadman

[Seastallion]

Wasn't Chambers being accused of being overtly biased a few weeks ago? Why are they asking unknowns from second tier universities (CMU/KKU) - how about director of political studies at Chula?

In all though seems fairly balanced - with some "what?" moments. I can't see how he can say, "Looking back, it seems that it (a coup) might have been the plan from the beginning," said author and academic David Streckfuss (Director of the Council on International Educational Exchange at Khon Kaen Uni ). Seems to me, looking back, the military tried pretty hard not to have a coup, but were eventually forced into it. Seems like the Reds might have done better working with Suthep on this council for reforms - they might have got more out of it than they are likely to get now - reforms now are likely going to be Royalist and Yellow in nature rather than independent (or at least cross party) like would have been achieved by a mutually chosen/appointed independent council.

//Edit: Grammar

I was going to say pretty much the same thing, minus the bit about "fairly balanced", plus mention of Quah's comments....also several "what?" momenst.

The reason I question the balance is that there were just too many "what?" moments. It seems more to be subtley biased. There is a reason unkowns from less prestigious institutions were quoted.

[Seastallion]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

I admire your passion. My advice would be don't let it blind you, as being too extreme will make some of your readers lose interest.

I disagree with one thing; Education of the voters is certainly important, but not key. Key would be the checks and balances, and the transparency imposed upon the administration. Without that, the education in itself could be manipulated somewhere down the line.

[aussieinthailand]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Go back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticise truth and spew bent rubbish.

"GO back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticize truth and spew bent rubbish"

Just because I'm an Aussie doesn't mean my "genes" as you put it are English, Australia has a multicultural people an has had from the first ships landed there, so facts and history seem to be a problem for you, no surprises there. I believe it's you who need to do a little learning before you spew bent rubbish, by the way do you like apples? so how do you like them apples?

[ppmacready]

I have puzzled over how to root out an entrenched political machine, like Thaksin's and Richard Daley of Chicago. It seems a very difficult problem because some kind of representative democracy should remain. This is obviously the current most pressing problem: How to eliminate the formation of single strong-man one-man top-down organization that uses family and cronies to keep graft coming in and to dispense $$ rewards to the top and lower level crony troops. This appears to be a classic Machine Politics example.

So, where are the bright political scientists and sociologists IN Thailand willing to come out with a plan or two to get rid of the big political machine and still retain Thai style democracy otherwise? Where are the strong academic programs and senior knowledgeable scholars on this topic? I suspect Thailand's universities produce precious few. If there is at least one, Hey guy, please speak up now as we are in dire need !

Machine politics depend on a kind of patronage, called corruption, here in the land of historic actual patronage. How to modify this ingrained system (which has good patronage, too) in a culture so intimately suffused?

Thailand's culture seems very fertile ground for political machines. How to stop those and still have wide and open citizen involvement in governing?

Please speak up!

As djjamie rightly says, the way forward can only be through education.

Not the elite's choice up till now except for their children of course.

[cekipa]

Are we in the same theater watching the same movie ? This has been done in 2006, then new constitution was drawn, then went to the polls, Reds won and Yingluck went to power. Now, after 8 years, seized power again, change constitution again, go to polls again and ..... reds winning again ?? Seems to me back in 2006 they did not to a good job, did they ? So how we can expect them to solve problems now ?

Edited May 24, 2014 by cekipa

[Dr. Zorg]

Why does democracy fail in Thailand?

It is part and parcel of living here. The first time I heard about the Thai coup history, was 13 years ago when I came to live here. I was horrified, because a coup means bloodshed. To my surprise it didn't happen in 2006, and now, there are no tanks visible. Does a coup actually promote democracy or is it just a hedge? The political mechanism has failed; the constitution is a disater etc.

Re-writing the constitutioin and having a coup every 7 years isn't the selution. So, where do we start? Education?

[wolf5370]

[ quote djjamie ]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

[ end quote ]

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Those "Facts" are mentioned ALL THE TIME! By the way Leekpai set up the health scheme - Thaksin just took credit for it and bungled the budgeting causing rural (read: poor area) clinic and hospitals to collapse.

Are you suggesting kids didn't go to school before 2001? Are you suggesting the poor got wealthier during his administration? Compared to whom - the rich/poor gap didn't exactly close did it. Lending poor people money with little control sure does give them more money for a while - until the bank wants to be repaid and the land they lived on for generations is taken and rented back to them!

Also...

Transparency International's CPI (what you are talking about) is heavily criticised : From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International

The Corruption Perceptions Index has received criticisms over the years. The main one stems from the difficulty in measuring corruption, which by definition happens behind the scenes. The Corruption Perceptions Index therefore needs to rely on third-party survey which have been criticized as potentially unreliable. Data can vary widely depending on the public perception of a country, the completeness of the surveys and the methodology used. The second issue is that data cannot be compared from year to year because Transparency International uses different methodologies and samples every year. This makes it difficult to evaluate the result of new policies.The Corruption Perceptions Index authors replied to these criticisms by reminding that the Corruption Perceptions Index is meant to measure perception and not "reality". They argue that "perceptions matter in their own right, since... firms and individuals take actions based on perceptions

A big problem with it wrt Thailand is that many people believe that some corruption is fine, so would give a low rating of corruption where it is not overt - whereas in western countries the opposite is true. Also comparing year on year index positions is flawed as above - so not weight to your argument there either.

Debt to GDP does not signify less debt - actually thanks to schemes such as the village loan scheme, personal debt rose dramatically during his administration - however, so did the GDP (it had to - it was on the way out of the Tiger Crash!).

So the Transparency International Corruption Perception Index is an imperfect measure of corruption. Do you know of a better measure? Corrupt people don't let do-gooders audit their books. Transparency International does the best it can, and the results are generally accepted as the best available measure of corruption.

However if you do know of a more credible measure of corruption, please share it with us. It is important to quantify a problem in order to determine how to deal with it and if you are making progress in resolving it.

On another note:

"The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship."

Get real; the PTP won the 2011 election. It was monitored by the ANFREL and they concluded that while it wasn't perfect the results were legitimate. Lots of people on TV forum insist the election was somehow fraudulent but nobody provides any credible evidence. As to the dictatorship claim, check your dictionaries, I think you'll find that governments that step aside and offer new elections are not dictatorships. The PTP won, the Democrats lost, it was the people's democratic choice and Orwellian lies will not change the facts.

Actually I do not have a better measure - no one does. That is why I do not band it around as a fact! Which was the point of my post. Bringing out the same old bumph every time and claiming they are facts is just smoke and mirrors. The index itself states that it should not be compared year on year, like a league table - but it is continually used so, in attempts to show a country is becoming more or less corrupt - it means nothing of the sort.

Can't comment on the rest, that's not my comment about PTP coup, but djjamie's.

[JohnnyJazz]

"Looking back, it seems that it (a coup) might have been the plan from the beginning," said author and academic David Streckfuss.

I honestly can't believe someone says that

:-)

[wolf5370]

Why does democracy fail in Thailand?

It is part and parcel of living here. The first time I heard about the Thai coup history, was 13 years ago when I came to live here. I was horrified, because a coup means bloodshed. To my surprise it didn't happen in 2006, and now, there are no tanks visible. Does a coup actually promote democracy or is it just a hedge? The political mechanism has failed; the constitution is a disater etc.

Re-writing the constitutioin and having a coup every 7 years isn't the selution. So, where do we start? Education?

Education, yes, but that is a long term prospect and needs constant support from the government.

The whole system is rotten, it glued together by nepotism, and corruption from top to tail - with no substance beneath. The place to start has to be at the top, where reforms can trickle down and policy can be made and implemented to remove the rot and build the substance in a controlled manor. Many countries have gone through it - Thailand is not special. Most took revolutions, being conquered or men (or women even - if we look at Burma which is at the early stages of reform) with integrity and real support from the natives. The latter is the best option, obviously, but it is heavily hindered here. The system works against any such thing happening, and tight control of a media with very little integrity itself, practically seals the deal.

For a Buddhist society it is amazingly me-me here; everyone is looking for immediate gratification rather than caring about the long term or the fate of their grandchildren - this is part cultural and part indoctrinated. Idol worship is the way in politics here - which is why non elected people get the PM spot so often (especially with Shin lead parties) - the Reds started as a grass roots pressure group with a lot of good ideas and aims - as popularity grew the "idols" took control and twisted the aims. As the protests against the Amnesty Bill took hold and was showing amazing support, Suthep joins the fray - becomes leader very quickly - and again the aims twist from anti-Amnesty to anti-Government. The Thais like to idolise other Thais and trust them to do the necessary - they do not like to get off their <deleted> and make a difference themselves (unless told by such idol to grab a flag/club/gun/bottle of petrol and join the mob).

[wolf5370]

Are we in the same theater watching the same movie ? This has been done in 2006, then new constitution was drawn, then went to the polls, Reds won and Yingluck went to power. Now, after 8 years, seized power again, change constitution again, go to polls again and ..... reds winning again ?? Seems to me back in 2006 they did not to a good job, did they ? So how we can expect them to solve problems now ?

Same genre, different movie. In 2006 it was about ousting a caretaker PM that had illegally hung on to power and refused to go or have a valid election (snap election that broke the rules regarding lead time) and had a non functioning government (lower number of MPs than needed). This time there was no government, but an acting caretaker PM with no legitimate claim tot he position, a senate that was under siege, independent agencies and courts being ignored and intimidated, and practically all out war on the streets (and with the continuing discovery of arms caches - a war is the right term). This time it was about stopping bloodshed - time had run out for negotiation, no one was budging and armed violence was set to increase wholesale - the General had little choice IMO. If it had gone on a few days longer then those weapons could be in use in the streets - then the army stepping in would be a blood bath.

What is the same though is that it has been bloodless, popular, and they will not stay in power long, but sort things out, appoint an interim government to oversee reforms and then, yes, the Reds can stand again - hopefully that time they will have learned their lesson that rules and laws also apply to them in governance!

[JohnnyJazz]

For a Buddhist society it is amazingly me-me here; everyone is looking for immediate gratification rather than caring about the long term or the fate of their grandchildren - this is part cultural and part indoctrinated. Idol worship is the way in politics here - which is why non elected people get the PM spot so often (especially with Shin lead parties) - the Reds started as a grass roots pressure group with a lot of good ideas and aims - as popularity grew the "idols" took control and twisted the aims. As the protests against the Amnesty Bill took hold and was showing amazing support, Suthep joins the fray - becomes leader very quickly - and again the aims twist from anti-Amnesty to anti-Government. The Thais like to idolise other Thais and trust them to do the necessary - they do not like to get off their <deleted> and make a difference themselves (unless told by such idol to grab a flag/club/gun/bottle of petrol and join the mob).

Thanks to Richard Gere and Steven Seagal, the Daila Lama is big in Hollywood. But buddhism is probably one of the most selfish philosophy in the world. What good thing has ever been achieved in the name of buddhism ?

[cekipa]

Are we in the same theater watching the same movie ? This has been done in 2006, then new constitution was drawn, then went to the polls, Reds won and Yingluck went to power. Now, after 8 years, seized power again, change constitution again, go to polls again and ..... reds winning again ?? Seems to me back in 2006 they did not to a good job, did they ? So how we can expect them to solve problems now ?

Same genre, different movie....

......What is the same though is that it has been bloodless, popular, and they will not stay in power long, but sort things out, appoint an interim government to oversee reforms and then, yes, the Reds can stand again - hopefully that time they will have learned their lesson that rules and laws also apply to them in governance!

Isn't it what people were saying in 2006 ? I bet this is what people will saying in 2022 after another coup.

Same theater, same soap opera, different episode.

[wolf5370]

Are we in the same theater watching the same movie ? This has been done in 2006, then new constitution was drawn, then went to the polls, Reds won and Yingluck went to power. Now, after 8 years, seized power again, change constitution again, go to polls again and ..... reds winning again ?? Seems to me back in 2006 they did not to a good job, did they ? So how we can expect them to solve problems now ?

Same genre, different movie....

......What is the same though is that it has been bloodless, popular, and they will not stay in power long, but sort things out, appoint an interim government to oversee reforms and then, yes, the Reds can stand again - hopefully that time they will have learned their lesson that rules and laws also apply to them in governance!

Isn't it what people were saying in 2006 ? I bet this is what people will saying in 2022 after another coup.

Same theater, same soap opera, different episode.

Well, yes, that's why I said "What is the same though..." after you cut out (against forum rules I would point out if I were pedantic - which I'm not ) the rest where I tried to show the main difference (that being the reason for it)

//Edit: Malfunctioning emoticon

Edited May 24, 2014 by wolf5370

[Mr Yim]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

Jamie your thumb nail is offensive and disresptful. You show utter contempt for a large number of the Thai population. Would you have the guts to say what you think of them to their face?

[Mr Yim]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Go back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticise truth and spew bent rubbish.

There you go more insults and no substance. Very predictable. Want to send me back to Bournemouth, because my views dont comply with yours?

[Mr Yim]

ok, Metisa, ratcatcher Jip99, all of your rude, patronizing, arrogant, stuffy, snobby, judgmental, smug replies to what i said (which was written in comedic, self-depricating tone!! hello!!) do not make you any smarter than me, i'm sorry to inform you. although i know it made you feel that way when you were self-righteously stroking away at your keyboard...

i was half-kidding; sorry that was lost on some of you. although it is true that politics and government affairs aren't on my personal list of interests doesn't mean it is right to belittle me and be plain out and out rude...

i was just asking if any of you who is so interested in this national situation could comment on how it would affect daily life for most of us besides the obvious. sorry for the jovial tone! geez!

maybe i wrongly assumed this site was meant to be friendly?

I think many responses are made from a bar stool following a 30 minute walk in the hot sun.

[Raymonddiaz]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Thanks for telling these facts........Let the people choose , don't let the bangkokians decide for the whole country....1 Thai/ 1 Vote.....no one can rule by guns in 2014....this coup will not last...the power will be back to the people soon...

[how241]

Quote: "It has only been 24 hours. Maybe you could cut some slack, and give the general a bit of time to sort things out. It cannot get any worse than what your favorite criminals have done in the last three years.

You might be surprised on the outcome of this whole thing. I know I am keeping a positive attitude for a much better country, Gov.t, and place to live."

+1...Give the army some time. So far, it looks like they are moving in a positive direction.

[khunken]

Was the 2006 coup the same as the previous one in 1992? No it wasn't.

Is the 2014 coup the same as the last one in 2006? We shouldn't allow the amateur fortune tellers to claim it is.

This time there has been nothing but continuous protests for 6 months with one set continually under attack by killers who have been responsible for most of the 28 or so that have been killed. A supposed 'peacekeeping' agency was set up to prevent violence and they seemed to not only have knowledge of it occurring but didn't lift a finger to stop it.

More and more weapons caches were being found (only) when the army accompanied the police on searches. How was this going to stop? CAPO (that supposed peace-keeping body) seemed ready to escalate the violence by sending out police hit teams to 'capture' protest leaders.

Anyone of a non-violent disposition should applaud the general for stepping in to stop it getting even more out of hand. It is early days - too early to assess success or failure - and having to put up with some minor inconveniences is worthwhile in the short term.

[beautifulthailand99]

Was the 2006 coup the same as the previous one in 1992? No it wasn't.

Is the 2014 coup the same as the last one in 2006? We shouldn't allow the amateur fortune tellers to claim it is.

This time there has been nothing but continuous protests for 6 months with one set continually under attack by killers who have been responsible for most of the 28 or so that have been killed. A supposed 'peacekeeping' agency was set up to prevent violence and they seemed to not only have knowledge of it occurring but didn't lift a finger to stop it.

More and more weapons caches were being found (only) when the army accompanied the police on searches. How was this going to stop? CAPO (that supposed peace-keeping body) seemed ready to escalate the violence by sending out police hit teams to 'capture' protest leaders.

Anyone of a non-violent disposition should applaud the general for stepping in to stop it getting even more out of hand. It is early days - too early to assess success or failure - and having to put up with some minor inconveniences is worthwhile in the short term.

This time it is certainly different if international speculation is to be believed and events point to that maybe they should - then the army has breathtakingly used the occasion to clean out the stables in a major way and it will be interesting how they eventually let the Thai people know about it. I imagine it would be extremely popular but will require some editing of Thai history and major heartbreak for the most important person connected with all of this. As one commentator said - the most significant event in Thailand for the last 100 years - which is probably over egging it - I would say 82 years to be precise.

Edited May 24, 2014 by beautifulthailand99

[ratcatcher]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Thanks for telling these facts........Let the people choose , don't let the bangkokians decide for the whole country....1 Thai/ 1 Vote.....no one can rule by guns in 2014....this coup will not last...the power will be back to the people soon...

Will you be happy with a year....or two?

[khunken]

Was the 2006 coup the same as the previous one in 1992? No it wasn't.

Is the 2014 coup the same as the last one in 2006? We shouldn't allow the amateur fortune tellers to claim it is.

This time there has been nothing but continuous protests for 6 months with one set continually under attack by killers who have been responsible for most of the 28 or so that have been killed. A supposed 'peacekeeping' agency was set up to prevent violence and they seemed to not only have knowledge of it occurring but didn't lift a finger to stop it.

More and more weapons caches were being found (only) when the army accompanied the police on searches. How was this going to stop? CAPO (that supposed peace-keeping body) seemed ready to escalate the violence by sending out police hit teams to 'capture' protest leaders.

Anyone of a non-violent disposition should applaud the general for stepping in to stop it getting even more out of hand. It is early days - too early to assess success or failure - and having to put up with some minor inconveniences is worthwhile in the short term.

This time it is certainly different if international speculation is to be believed and events point to that maybe they should - then the army has breathtakingly used the occasion to clean out the stables in a major way and it will be interesting how they eventually let the Thai people know about it. I imagine it would be extremely popular but will require some editing of Thai history and major heartbreak for the most important person connected with all of this. As one commentator said - the most significant event in Thailand for the last 100 years - which is probably over egging it - I would say 82 years to be precise.

I don't buy into the international speculation nor that of the local kind. The Economist article for example had a lot of unverified opinion (can't spell it out on this forum) and given their downward path into supporting violence in the international arena, can easily dismiss it.

I don't know what you mean by editing of Thai history and how that bears any relevance to a current coup. Yes, this is a significant event but to exaggerate it in terms of history is back to the fortune tellers that I mentioned. For now it is a violence preventing measure and we'll have to see how it plays out.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... Prayut, the hardline chief of Thailand's powerful army ...' Hardline? Hardly, when viewed in light of the excessive - some would say irritatingly excessive - caution that he has displayed over many months.