Snowden: I was a high-tech US spy

[F430murci]

By admitting he was a spy, he is now admitting that he is a traitor.

And now it appears that he is a nobody.

Hardly a nobody.

His actions changed the world.

Nothing changed except the code used and his password access.

[neverdie]

His reward. Life in Russia. lucky chap.

[mok199]

another nobody,but now a nobody with an excuse to ''write a book''...we need another book like we need a ''hang over 4''....cant people just live thier lives and be grateful for life itself...do we need to tell the world our ''story''......everyone of us ,has a story....and the world is full of greatness....''the greatest deeds are the deeds unnoticed''..

Edited May 28, 2014 by mok199

[toooa]

He is a traitor for sure, but he might get away with it.

If Snowden's a traitor, what does that make the people in government who are actively violating the rights of the people they are sworn to serve? Concepts like traitor are pretty subjective, and are used in false moral arguments to justify the abuses of the state. Nuff said.

You wouldn't by any chance be current or ex military would you Mr. G? ...I can tell by your logic.

[Chicog]

Why is it some people are so selective about the constitution?

2nd Amendment: "You'll NEVER take away our guns!"

4th Amendment: "Take what you like".

(Assuming of course that the US government snooping on your personal information without a warrant constitutes an illegal search).

[Ulysses G.]

You wouldn't by any chance be current or ex military would you Mr. G? ...I can tell by your logic.

Anyone who thinks that no one in the military is logical is not all that logical themselves.

[HerbalEd]

another nobody,but now a nobody with an excuse to ''write a book''...we need another book like we need a ''hang over 4''....cant people just live thier lives and be grateful for life itself...do we need to tell the world our ''story''......everyone of us ,has a story....and the world is full of greatness....''the greatest deeds are the deeds unnoticed''..

Personally I like to celebrate life ... not just live it. I need a lot more than a white-rice life ... I need some delicious, aromatic & colorful sauce on that rice. Also, I enjoy reading about interesting people's lives ... not so-call celebrities ... but great people who have done great deeds and/or who have an interesting story to share.

Edited May 28, 2014 by HerbalEd

[Johpa]

I think Snowden should be in jail for the rest of his life. He is a traitor who released secret information during a time of war.

He's not a whistle blower, he is a coward and a traitor. Had he stayed in the USA and stood up for what he believed in, that would have made him a whistle blower. There are many heroic people who have stood up to their governments without running away and hiding. Bravery is not a condition of his personality.

Again, you really must watch Frontline's documentary United Stated of Secrets. Snowden was not the party to release any information. He provided information to informed investigative journalists who, along with editors who were in consultation with the White House, then decided what to release to the public.

Snowden was aware of the heroic efforts of high ranking members of the intelligence community and other branches of government who did try to stand up to the government and who were subsequently mowed down: careers and lives destroyed.

I had mixed feeling about Snowden before watching the documentary, but now realize that Snowden, like Daniel Ellsburg before him, are necessary hero types in a democracy that is always threatened as much from within as from the outside.

[davidstipek]

If you haven't seen it, you should watch the recent Frontline documentary "United States of Secrets" before you condemn Snowden as a traitor. There were others, very high ranking bureaucrats, politically very conservative people, working in the intelligence community, who attempted to stop the NSA intelligence gathering programs through normal channels but with no success.

Just a thought... But did anyone ever connect the dots... All this hacking... Breaches that have been happening and reported... Just maybe it is from the use of higher Maleware programs that the Breaches have been discovered and the culprit might be the NSA...

Or on the other hand, Could be it is paybacks for what they have done... That the Hacking continues...

Could be if they Stop.... The reported finding of Programers finding this and that has been breached "Stops also"

Like a shoelace.. yes it has two ends that get tied together! But don't forget those ends are joined in the middle!

Edited May 28, 2014 by davidstipek

[davidstipek]

Hey! since when being a working spy FOR the CIA and NSA makes you a traitor? As stated by several posts?

This would mean that All of us that Worked for Air America are Traitors??

BULLSH_T!!

I don't Condone what Snowden has made happen... I also fiercly disapprove of the workings He Exposed also!!

As all Americans and any other citizens of other affected Countries should feel also!

Edited May 28, 2014 by davidstipek

[3R1C]

US intelligence collection entered a brave new science of algorithmic analysis of "big data" which requires storage of metadata on a massive - almost total - scale in order to work well. If you think the US is the only country involved in the big data innovations, you would be chilled to the bone if you saw what Britain, Russia, and China are doing with it. For that matter, if you think the US is the only country that tries to collect intelligence on Angela Merkel's blackberry and email, you would be far wrong. All the modern states are spying with high-tech collection and analysis methods. All. Every last one. Aussies recently got caught out doing it to the Indonesian head of state. The Aussies are loved by all. They are not trying to take over the world. Not Even. I love the wizards of Oz and wish them every success in future intel exploits, and hope they don't get caught, either.

Why Snowden went public, in spite of US congressional leadership and other Intel insiders trying to do the same thing LEGALLY, through the proper channels - is the discerning question. Why Snowden went public with dirty laundry about who is snooping on who was its own agenda. The enormous issue of mass storage of email and phone metadata, was not elevated or even much illuminated by the Guardian or anyone else. The public largely overlooked the real issue of invasion of privacy because the story was presented - deliberately- off the mark by mainstream media. After consultations with the White House, the redacted version available for print would not be sufficient for a proper media lead on Big Data. The science of it is just over most people's heads. So what instead grabbed the headlines was who-spies-on-who allegations, which were all true, and appalling, and great scoff for the readership.

FISA approved the NSA's use of US citizens metadata for algorithmic analysis to determine the whereabouts of individuals involved in terrorist activities. And that is it. NSA cannot use the content of a US citizen's conversations or messages - actual text of a conversation, images, voip sound data - for anything at all ever. But storing all that information means that if the court's interpretation of the law allowed them to examine content next year, they could go back and look at content from prior years as well. That is what looked so nefarious to Snowden, and why he went off the reservation. The US does not have authorization to examine content of its own citizens conversations but The UK, and Russia and China all DO HAVE and all routinely DO IT. Who is freaking out about that? Strangely, nobody.

Snowden? I get why he did it. But he did it during wartime, so it was treason, and he may yet fry for it. Meanwhile, the science of Big Data is taking off like a structure fire. You can assume that if you are a person of interest to any of the modern powers, they already see everything you are doing electronically. If that makes you uncomfortable, you can complain about it, but they will not stop collecting on you. On the contrary, they will probably wonder why you doth protest too much, and focus on you all the more so. Until you stop doing things electronically that interest them. I am far more afraid of what Google is doing with my information than the NSA or the FSB. But then I am not doing anything any government would perceive as a threat to national interests. Google on the other hand looks at everything I read, and everything I buy. And while I am comfortable with both, it is still too creepy for my tastes.

[davidstipek]

US intelligence collection entered a brave new science of algorithmic analysis of "big data" which requires storage of metadata on a massive - almost total - scale in order to work well. If you think the US is the only country involved in the big data innovations, you would be chilled to the bone if you saw what Britain, Russia, and China are doing with it. For that matter, if you think the US is the only country that tries to collect intelligence on Angela Merkel's blackberry and email, you would be far wrong. All the modern states are spying with high-tech collection and analysis methods. All. Every last one. Aussies recently got caught out doing it to the Indonesian head of state. The Aussies are loved by all. They are not trying to take over the world. Not Even. I love the wizards of Oz and wish them every success in future intel exploits, and hope they don't get caught, either.

Why Snowden went public, in spite of US congressional leadership and other Intel insiders trying to do the same thing LEGALLY, through the proper channels - is the discerning question. Why Snowden went public with dirty laundry about who is snooping on who was its own agenda. The enormous issue of mass storage of email and phone metadata, was not elevated or even much illuminated by the Guardian or anyone else. The public largely overlooked the real issue of invasion of privacy because the story was presented - deliberately- off the mark by mainstream media. After consultations with the White House, the redacted version available for print would not be sufficient for a proper media lead on Big Data. The science of it is just over most people's heads. So what instead grabbed the headlines was who-spies-on-who allegations, which were all true, and appalling, and great scoff for the readership.

FISA approved the NSA's use of US citizens metadata for algorithmic analysis to determine the whereabouts of individuals involved in terrorist activities. And that is it. NSA cannot use the content of a US citizen's conversations or messages - actual text of a conversation, images, voip sound data - for anything at all ever. But storing all that information means that if the court's interpretation of the law allowed them to examine content next year, they could go back and look at content from prior years as well. That is what looked so nefarious to Snowden, and why he went off the reservation. The US does not have authorization to examine content of its own citizens conversations but The UK, and Russia and China all DO HAVE and all routinely DO IT. Who is freaking out about that? Strangely, nobody.

Snowden? I get why he did it. But he did it during wartime, so it was treason, and he may yet fry for it. Meanwhile, the science of Big Data is taking off like a structure fire. You can assume that if you are a person of interest to any of the modern powers, they already see everything you are doing electronically. If that makes you uncomfortable, you can complain about it, but they will not stop collecting on you. On the contrary, they will probably wonder why you doth protest too much, and focus on you all the more so. Until you stop doing things electronically that interest them. I am far more afraid of what Google is doing with my information than the NSA or the FSB. But then I am not doing anything any government would perceive as a threat to national interests. Google on the other hand looks at everything I read, and everything I buy. And while I am comfortable with both, it is still too creepy for my tastes.

Excellant Post!

But end result... "Still no matter who is doing it" It Still is wrong, and as I was leaning against our Constitution and Bill of Rights! Other Countries Citizens may not have been lucky to have the Same Documents as Americans have. So I weep for them!

If one head rolls for exposing.... Other are Mandated to Roll also for their Involvement in, at least where America is concerned here.

Jeez, I thought Nixon and all his Cronies woud or are Dead by Now....

No I am not of Interest of any Modern Power. But I have put Chirstianity and Buddhism together (they work very well when Classifying Evil) I also believe in Karma.... No I do not make it happen anymore, I have been quiet content to let the doers Reap their Own Benifits.

Edited May 28, 2014 by davidstipek

[Johpa]

The odd thing is that, if I remember correctly, back in the mid 1990s there were published articles, perhaps in an early issue of Wired magazine, that noted that the NSA was already collecting all Internet traffic entering the US and had a physical presence in at least one building in San Francisco where a primary trans-pacific cable carrying traffic (a backbone of the Internet) was split and mirrored, one stream continuing on and another stream collected by NSA. At the same time Britain had already announced that all Internet traffic was being monitored. The difference today is that memory storage can easily retain all that data for posterity. On the slightly brighter side, with that much data, well there is little difference between that much data and "noise".

[Morch]

It doesn't really matter what his exact job was, as long as the information he revealed is credible.

In many organizations, it is quite surprising what some roles and positions got access to.

Also, don't really see the issue with him being called both a hero and a traitor.

His revelations were an act of betrayal, if one wished to call it heroic act of betrayal, go for it.

It would have made him more of a hero to make this revelations while in the USA, whilst being

exposed to whatever the consequences might have been. Mind, that's about being brave, not

necessarily smart. I do not think he would have had that many issues spreading the word, not

with his claimed IT savvy credentials. Sitting in Russia and doing the same does take a certain

toll the way what he says is perceived.

I would be very surprised if other superpowers (real or wannabees) do not engage in similar

activities, each according to its own technical ability and global reach. I would also be very

surprised if when a Snowden counterpart exposes them the result would be a domestic public

uproar, accompanied by legislative efforts to curb such activities. No point in going in depth as

to the fate of whistle-blowers/traitors in them other countries, but safe to say they usually they

do not allow sex-change procedures and the like.

[Thakkar]

A long but excellent article on the issue:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/27/-sp-privacy-under-attack-nsa-files-revealed-new-threats-democracy

A few choice paras:

"The invasion of our internet was secret, and we did not know that we should resist. But resistance developed as a fifth column among the listeners themselves. [snowden, Bradly Manning, and others]

It is enough to say in opposition that omnipresent invasive listening creates fear. And that fear is the enemy of reasoned, ordered liberty.

privacy is a requirement of democratic self-government. The effort to fasten the procedures of pervasive surveillance on human society is the antithesis of liberty. This is the conversation that all the "don't listen to my mobile phone!" misdirection has not been about. If it were up to national governments, the conversation would remain at this phoney level forever.

The US government and its listeners have not advanced any convincing argument that what they do is compatible with the morality of freedom, US constitutional law or international human rights. They will instead attempt, as much as possible, to change the subject, and, whenever they cannot change the subject, to blame the messenger.

Snowden has provided the most valuable thing that democratic self-governing people can have, namely information about what is going on. If we are to exercise our rights as self-governing people, using the information he has given us, we should have clear in our minds the political ideas upon which we act."

I urge everyone to read the whole piece and share it widely.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/27/-sp-privacy-under-attack-nsa-files-revealed-new-threats-democracy

T

[Morch]