Unprofessional and unskilled English Teacher's do you feel guilty?

[wilcopops]

I really agree. Can you imagine what a shot in the arm it would be for Thailand if the entire population spoke English to the level of a 7 year old native English speaker.

7 year olds don't learn any grammar. Heck even if all Thais were taught to understand only a couple of simple phrases, 1. "Where is the toilet?" and "Where is the bar?"

If anyone of importance in Thailand is reading this, "Get rid of all the grammar nonsense and speak English like a 7 year old."

Do i detect an American accent?

..and quite understandable too.

but this is not an exercise in her ability to speak English as such -it is a prepared piece - Is she reading or reciting? I doubt very much if this is a genuine example of "free speaking"

one couldn't asses her conversational or reading abilities on this, let alone listening or comprehension. - this would be required to establish her "reading age" in English

http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-7-year-old-mastering-talking_10329595.bc

Your 7-year-old now

Typically, the vocabulary, pronunciation, and grammar of a child this age are all working at near-adult levels. Vocabulary and comprehension will continue to expand during the coming years — right through high school, in fact. But most lisps and common mispronunciations are outgrown by 7.

At 7, your child should be able to:

• pronounce sounds like th, s, ch, wh, l, y, and soft g ("giant")
• use a wide-ranging vocabulary when speaking (now as many as 20,000 words!)

My point was that 7 year olds don't learn much grammar. Wouldn't it be nice if the average Thai could speak English at a 7 year old level. Who cares whom does the teaching.

So you really haven't got a point with this clip have you? You clearly don't understand the problems of pronunciation as children get older - I would guess that your Thai pronunciation is nowhere near as good as that girl's English...and never will be, but apart from some rote pronunciation what does it show?

[pigeonjake]

a question concerning teaching English in Thailand. are the Thai students taught English or American?

-whom to blame for the bad behaviour of my neighbour?

or

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

EL is a user driven language - it is not static........this makes a uniquely democratic tool. Unfortunately for you the use of whom is dropping out of any form of English US, international, Aussie, Indian, and British...they all are losing it.

"Whom" is the objective case - we still use it in some pronouns but it most other circumstances it has fallen out of use along with all the other cases. This is also the case with verb agreements.

If you went back a few hundred years or side stepped into other languages you would have to deal with many more case forms in many more words......

Anyone who has studied Latin will recognise the 6 (maybe even 7) cases -

1. Nominative

2. Vocative

3. Accusative

4. Genitive

5. Dative

6. Ablative

7. Locative

Also with gender and singular or plural; each requiring a different form of the noun - for instance:- datum/data (datorum even!), visum (singular, as used in Dutch) or visa the plural used in English

For example, German still uses some cases and together with French, has a full range of verb agreements. In English we dropped most of the changes in verb endings 800 to 200 years ago. Inexplicably, we retain the “s” in third person singular positive present simple (from Scandinavian origins I believe)

The possessive apostrophe “s” probably originated from the genitive case in Germanic which ended in “es”; the apostrophe denoting the missing “e”

Changes are not always concurrent; oddly enough it is the US that holds on to more vestiges of older English than the UK as after the revolution, they remained relatively isolated for some time and retained a lot of structures and forms that fell out of use in UK - “Fall” for Autumn, “Gotten” rather than “got” and “for sure” instead of “Yes” come to mind.

There are many reasons for this “loss”, but a lot has to do with the fact that English is a VAST language in terms of numbers of words and sources and we simply don't need those cases to make ourselves understood.

So, changes happen - get used to it.........

PS - "who is to blame" would be a more modern syntax and makes "who" the subject, "to blame whom" (object) sounds rather clumsy by today's standards

good example of copy and paisting,,,lol

I'm glad to hear you've mastered it - are you going to do some more?

However if you think I didn't write it, than I take it as a compliment - says a bit about your range though?

im not claiming to be the most inteligent,,

but ive known teflors buy there ticket in a bar in surin also there degree,,,

ps,, i might not be the most inteligent on here,, but take it from me, you would like my salary even if it was for just 1 year,,,,,

[wilcopops]

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

EL is a user driven language - it is not static........this makes a uniquely democratic tool. Unfortunately for you the use of whom is dropping out of any form of English US, international, Aussie, Indian, and British...they all are losing it.

"Whom" is the objective case - we still use it in some pronouns but it most other circumstances it has fallen out of use along with all the other cases. This is also the case with verb agreements.

If you went back a few hundred years or side stepped into other languages you would have to deal with many more case forms in many more words......

Anyone who has studied Latin will recognise the 6 (maybe even 7) cases -

1. Nominative

2. Vocative

3. Accusative

4. Genitive

5. Dative

6. Ablative

7. Locative

Also with gender and singular or plural; each requiring a different form of the noun - for instance:- datum/data (datorum even!), visum (singular, as used in Dutch) or visa the plural used in English

For example, German still uses some cases and together with French, has a full range of verb agreements. In English we dropped most of the changes in verb endings 800 to 200 years ago. Inexplicably, we retain the “s” in third person singular positive present simple (from Scandinavian origins I believe)

The possessive apostrophe “s” probably originated from the genitive case in Germanic which ended in “es”; the apostrophe denoting the missing “e”

Changes are not always concurrent; oddly enough it is the US that holds on to more vestiges of older English than the UK as after the revolution, they remained relatively isolated for some time and retained a lot of structures and forms that fell out of use in UK - “Fall” for Autumn, “Gotten” rather than “got” and “for sure” instead of “Yes” come to mind.

There are many reasons for this “loss”, but a lot has to do with the fact that English is a VAST language in terms of numbers of words and sources and we simply don't need those cases to make ourselves understood.

So, changes happen - get used to it.........

PS - "who is to blame" would be a more modern syntax and makes "who" the subject, "to blame whom" (object) sounds rather clumsy by today's standards

good example of copy and paisting,,,lol

I'm glad to hear you've mastered it - are you going to do some more?

However if you think I didn't write it, than I take it as a compliment - says a bit about your range though?

im not claiming to be the most inteligent,,

but ive known teflors buy there ticket in a bar in surin also there degree,,,

ps,, i might not be the most inteligent on here,, but take it from me, you would like my salary even if it was for just 1 year,,,,,

Absolutely extraordinary! 55555! What kind of a reply is that? We are talking about education and you say you have a lot of money - you don't even seem to realise what that says about you - not only your intelligence but your blinkered attitude to life in general.

On top of that you're attempting to make some very wild assumptions about me - so let me say something not based on a wild assumption - I wouldn't employ you in my company under any circumstances, as you are clearly not capable of making decisions based on rational or logical thought and would be a hazard to the business.

The idea that you think you are in a position to talk about education - which is something has clearly passed you personally by is really rather unfortunate don't you think?

[thailiketoo]

So you really haven't got a point with this clip have you? You clearly don't understand the problems of pronunciation as children get older - I would guess that your Thai pronunciation is nowhere near as good as that girl's English...and never will be, but apart from some rote pronunciation what does it show?

It shows nothing to continually try and pick a fight with me and everyone else. I don't care that you are uneducated. Try and understand what I wrote.

It would be more than adequate for the Thai population at large to speak English with the ability of the average 7 year old native speaker.

All of the English teachers in Thailand teaching for the past 10 years have not been able to teach the general population to understand, "where is the toilet" in English.

Your (I am assuming you are a TEFL person in Thailand) sights are set way too high.

[pigeonjake]

i didnt try and say i was inteligent did i,,? read it again,

but some of them who teach english on there teflers do,, dont they?

is that clear enough for you,?

and as for making decisions,, you wouldnt believe some of the decisions i hjave to make during the day,,

not just what am i going to do with these kids tomorow,,,lol

enjoy your teaching,

and ill just sit in my office in iraq counting money,,,lol

[Nickthegreek]

Most newspapers are written at a 6th grade level. For the average Thai person a 7 year old native speaking and comprehension level would be great.

further evidence you don't have a clue what you are talking about

High school students today are reading books intended for children with reading levels far below those appropriate for teens, according to a recent report.

A compilation of the top 40 books teens in grades 9-12 are reading in school shows that the average reading level of that list is 5.3 -- barely above the fifth grade.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/top-reading_n_1373680.html

The average high school student reads books on a fifth-grade level, according to a comprehensive survey whose findings point to why American teenagers lag so badly in literacy and knowledge.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/nation-illiterates-high-school-students-reading-5th-grade-level-new-study-finds-article-1.1053539

What does Meyer find after crunching 2,125 stories from newspapers as diverse as the Grand Forks (North Dakota) Herald, the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Houston Chronicle? Only 25 percent of those stories could be understood by someone who reads at an eighth-grade level or lower. The other 75 percent needed an audience of people who at least struggled through high school English, including a few who opened the Borzoi Reader in college.

Meyer creates a ranking for the 40 newspapers he surveyed based on the difference between their Flesch-Kincaid readability score and the education level of the people who live in their home counties. Those newspapers with the biggest difference - that is, those that write most below the reading level of the community - rank highest.

No. 1 on the list is the Grand Forks Herald with a reading level of 5.04 - a fifth-grade - five levels below its community; No. 4 is the Houston Chronicle with a tenth-grade level, just about on par with its community.

What I want to write is this: In other words, the dumber the writing, the higher the readership.

http://www.timporter.com/firstdraft/archives/000418.html

Reader's Digest magazine has a readability index of about 65. 13 year olds is 60.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesch%E2%80%93Kincaid_readability_tests

End of quote.

You've gone off and googled - well done but understanding English takes a little more than that - several years more in fact - You really are having problems here.....most people on this thread will have a reading age of between 7 and 13 and yet they still think they can comment on EL education.

This as a reference is indeed fantastic and really highlights to me that the very very knowledgeable Americans on this particular thread must have worked twice as hard to master the English language to then be able to write in such an informed manner.

What a shame you didn't stay in America to help improve the sadly lacking standard there.

[thailiketoo]

You've gone off and googled - well done but understanding English takes a little more than that - several years more in fact - You really are having problems here.....most people on this thread will have a reading age of between 7 and 13 and yet they still think they can comment on EL education.

This as a reference is indeed fantastic and really highlights to me that the very very knowledgeable Americans on this particular thread must have worked twice as hard to master the English language to then be able to write in such an informed manner.

What a shame you didn't stay in America to help improve the sadly lacking standard there.

So what was the purpose of above post?

[Water Buffalo]

No more guilty than the unprofessional and unskilled teachers i was taught by at primary school, secondary school, and college in the UK.

If the UK has such teachers, why shouldn't Thailand? Countries will progress as they progress.

Why don't you come down off your high-horse or find something better to do with your time.

And please try to remember where exactly we are. Thailand offers the worst salaries compared to cost of living for miles around. Not to mention, we get screwed over by the schools and agents regardless of our abilities or professionalism. The conditions and contracts are awful. No holiday pay for most which means we have to work illegally to survive the summer. This is why most of the "good" teachers leave. Don't blame us for the mess created by others.

Unskilled teachers are better than no teachers at all. And the entire education system is a mess - not just the English department.

I think you need to check entry salaries for EFL teachers around the world before making claims about salary/COL statements.

Certainly some countries appear better numerically - Japan, Saudi etc, but in Europe the starting salaries in places like Italy and Spain are ON A PAR monetarily with Thailand, making Thailand far better deal - at least for beginners in the business.

If ESL teachers in Italy and Spain are making the equivalent of 30,000- 40,000 for about 10 months a year, i stand corrected.

You could probably extend your list a little bit though....Japan, Saudi, mainland China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia (almost all the countries in the region). And believe it or not, even most teachers in Cambodia make the equivalent of 30,000 Baht per month (Cambodia is ridiculously cheap compared to Thailand, by the way).

[inutil]

i didnt try and say i was inteligent did i,,? read it again,

but some of them who teach english on there teflers do,, dont they?

is that clear enough for you,?

and as for making decisions,, you wouldnt believe some of the decisions i hjave to make during the day,,

not just what am i going to do with these kids tomorow,,,lol

enjoy your teaching,

and ill just sit in my office in iraq counting money,,,lol

Ah chief, ive just stalked your posts and to be honest you seem like a nice guy. So i promise i wont denigrate your line of work in life if you stop denigrating mine Just because some people buy degrees online, doesnt really reflect on the industry as a whole. Moreover it doesnt really tell you about their skill as a teacher. Its a visa hoop they need to jump through and its a little unfair maybe, but it is what it is. The merits or demerits of visa demands from central government arent really the subject of the discussion... nor will you find a consensus of opinion on the matter anyway. And part of the reason for that might be that deep within almost all of the hearts of every teacher without a PGCE (or equivalent qualification), is the idea they cant honestly believe that theyre lucky enough to do a job they shouldnt really be doing at the end of the day.

Teaching is awesome. Kids are awesome. The industry is a bit... mercenary. But hey ho, i still wake up and love my job after almost ten years. If you are one of the people sitting on the fence trying to make it happen, i encourage you to see what its like. If you ever want any advice, pop into the teaching forum and loads of people will help you get started. Teaching is incredibly fulfilling and rewarding despite the moans and complaints (that youll find in every job in the world ever).

[wilcopops]

No more guilty than the unprofessional and unskilled teachers i was taught by at primary school, secondary school, and college in the UK.

If the UK has such teachers, why shouldn't Thailand? Countries will progress as they progress.

Why don't you come down off your high-horse or find something better to do with your time.

And please try to remember where exactly we are. Thailand offers the worst salaries compared to cost of living for miles around. Not to mention, we get screwed over by the schools and agents regardless of our abilities or professionalism. The conditions and contracts are awful. No holiday pay for most which means we have to work illegally to survive the summer. This is why most of the "good" teachers leave. Don't blame us for the mess created by others.

Unskilled teachers are better than no teachers at all. And the entire education system is a mess - not just the English department.

I think you need to check entry salaries for EFL teachers around the world before making claims about salary/COL statements.

Certainly some countries appear better numerically - Japan, Saudi etc, but in Europe the starting salaries in places like Italy and Spain are ON A PAR monetarily with Thailand, making Thailand far better deal - at least for beginners in the business.

If ESL teachers in Italy and Spain are making the equivalent of 30,000- 40,000 for about 10 months a year, i stand corrected.

You could probably extend your list a little bit though....Japan, Saudi, mainland China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia (almost all the countries in the region). And believe it or not, even most teachers in Cambodia make the equivalent of 30,000 Baht per month (Cambodia is ridiculously cheap compared to Thailand, by the way).

There you stand - in fact many of the deals offered in other ASEAN countries don't work out so well as they involve different hours contracts working conditions...... as someone who has employed teachers around the world I can tell you that schools know what they can get away with from country to country and make the most of it.

It also helps if you work out hourly rates and then expected monthly earnings - that way you get a more realistic picture. hourly rates can be higher but hours less etc etc......

you also need to look at the WHOLE of TEFL (this leads me to think you haven't got a real grasp on the world industry) of which teaching in government schools is only a small part - if you compare the rates of TEFL companies around the world you'll find they actually don't vary....Check out the major international players like Berlitz, International House, British Council etc and you'll see a different picture.

TEFL is BIG BUSINESS.

[wilcopops]

So you really haven't got a point with this clip have you? You clearly don't understand the problems of pronunciation as children get older - I would guess that your Thai pronunciation is nowhere near as good as that girl's English...and never will be, but apart from some rote pronunciation what does it show?

It shows nothing to continually try and pick a fight with me and everyone else. I don't care that you are uneducated. Try and understand what I wrote.

It would be more than adequate for the Thai population at large to speak English with the ability of the average 7 year old native speaker.

All of the English teachers in Thailand teaching for the past 10 years have not been able to teach the general population to understand, "where is the toilet" in English.

Your (I am assuming you are a TEFL person in Thailand) sights are set way too high.

As I pointed out you still haven't demonstrated that you have any idea of what a "7 year old" speaker, listener reader or writer is....in fact references to the video indicate you haven't the faintest idea of what we are talking about.

[thailiketoo]

It shows nothing to continually try and pick a fight with me and everyone else. I don't care that you are uneducated. Try and understand what I wrote.

It would be more than adequate for the Thai population at large to speak English with the ability of the average 7 year old native speaker.

All of the English teachers in Thailand teaching for the past 10 years have not been able to teach the general population to understand, "where is the toilet" in English.

Your (I am assuming you are a TEFL person in Thailand) sights are set way too high.

As I pointed out you still haven't demonstrated that you have any idea of what a "7 year old" speaker, listener reader or writer is....in fact references to the video indicate you haven't the faintest idea of what we are talking about.

Why belabor the obvious. Everyone reading this knows what a native English speaker 7 year old sounds like. If you don't you are alone.

[simon43]

Mods, where are you? This childish bickering and 'oneupmanship' is getting on my t*ts......

[Naam]

a question concerning teaching English in Thailand. are the Thai students taught English or American?

-whom to blame for the bad behaviour of my neighbour?

or

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

Whom is only used in written English and in formal spoken English. Who is normally used as the object of a verb or preposition, but immediately after a preposition whom is generally used: the man with whom she lived. It would, however, be more natural to say: the man she lived with.

Except for pendants you can forget about whom as it is not necessary to be understood. But it is people like you with quirky beliefs about language that make learning a horrific experience for Thai children.

As I say to my students, "good job".

I often ask "to whom am I speaking" on the phone(I get a lot of spam calls) but I understand that some Americans use "who" in this case.

Am I to understand you try and teach Thai students when to use who and when to use whom?

obviously he is trying to teach English instead of Redneck Pidgin

[Naam]

a question concerning teaching English in Thailand. are the Thai students taught English or American?

-whom to blame for the bad behaviour of my neighbour?

or

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

EL is a user driven language - it is not static........this makes a uniquely democratic tool. Unfortunately for you the use of whom is dropping out of any form of English US, international, Aussie, Indian, and British...they all are losing it.

"Whom" is the objective case - we still use it in some pronouns but it most other circumstances it has fallen out of use along with all the other cases. This is also the case with verb agreements.

If you went back a few hundred years or side stepped into other languages you would have to deal with many more case forms in many more words......

Anyone who has studied Latin will recognise the 6 (maybe even 7) cases -

1. Nominative

2. Vocative

3. Accusative

4. Genitive

5. Dative

6. Ablative

7. Locative

Also with gender and singular or plural; each requiring a different form of the noun - for instance:- datum/data (datorum even!), visum (singular, as used in Dutch) or visa the plural used in English

For example, German still uses some cases and together with French, has a full range of verb agreements. In English we dropped most of the changes in verb endings 800 to 200 years ago. Inexplicably, we retain the “s” in third person singular positive present simple (from Scandinavian origins I believe)

The possessive apostrophe “s” probably originated from the genitive case in Germanic which ended in “es”; the apostrophe denoting the missing “e”

Changes are not always concurrent; oddly enough it is the US that holds on to more vestiges of older English than the UK as after the revolution, they remained relatively isolated for some time and retained a lot of structures and forms that fell out of use in UK - “Fall” for Autumn, “Gotten” rather than “got” and “for sure” instead of “Yes” come to mind.

There are many reasons for this “loss”, but a lot has to do with the fact that English is a VAST language in terms of numbers of words and sources and we simply don't need those cases to make ourselves understood.

So, changes happen - get used to it.........

PS - "who is to blame" would be a more modern syntax and makes "who" the subject, "to blame whom" (object) sounds rather clumsy by today's standards

there is no such thing like a loss or sounding clumsy when using correct grammar. au contraire! and of course you can make yourself understood speaking Pidgin, Thainglish or Bluck-Uffricunlish. take that from a non-native speaker who's third language is English.

by the way, there is no seventh case (such as "locative") in Latin, no matter what some wiki-clowns claim

[wilcopops]

a question concerning teaching English in Thailand. are the Thai students taught English or American?

-whom to blame for the bad behaviour of my neighbour?

or

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

EL is a user driven language - it is not static........this makes a uniquely democratic tool. Unfortunately for you the use of whom is dropping out of any form of English US, international, Aussie, Indian, and British...they all are losing it.

"Whom" is the objective case - we still use it in some pronouns but it most other circumstances it has fallen out of use along with all the other cases. This is also the case with verb agreements.

If you went back a few hundred years or side stepped into other languages you would have to deal with many more case forms in many more words......

Anyone who has studied Latin will recognise the 6 (maybe even 7) cases -

1. Nominative

2. Vocative

3. Accusative

4. Genitive

5. Dative

6. Ablative

7. Locative

Also with gender and singular or plural; each requiring a different form of the noun - for instance:- datum/data (datorum even!), visum (singular, as used in Dutch) or visa the plural used in English

For example, German still uses some cases and together with French, has a full range of verb agreements. In English we dropped most of the changes in verb endings 800 to 200 years ago. Inexplicably, we retain the “s” in third person singular positive present simple (from Scandinavian origins I believe)

The possessive apostrophe “s” probably originated from the genitive case in Germanic which ended in “es”; the apostrophe denoting the missing “e”

Changes are not always concurrent; oddly enough it is the US that holds on to more vestiges of older English than the UK as after the revolution, they remained relatively isolated for some time and retained a lot of structures and forms that fell out of use in UK - “Fall” for Autumn, “Gotten” rather than “got” and “for sure” instead of “Yes” come to mind.

There are many reasons for this “loss”, but a lot has to do with the fact that English is a VAST language in terms of numbers of words and sources and we simply don't need those cases to make ourselves understood.

So, changes happen - get used to it.........

PS - "who is to blame" would be a more modern syntax and makes "who" the subject, "to blame whom" (object) sounds rather clumsy by today's standards

there is no such thing like a loss or sounding clumsy when using correct grammar. au contraire! and of course you can make yourself understood speaking Pidgin, Thainglish or Bluck-Uffricunlish. take that from a non-native speaker who's third language is English.

by the way, there is no seventh case (such as "locative") in Latin, no matter what some wiki-clowns claim

Sorry there is - if you want to argue Latin, go ahead, you're likely to find you're way out of your depth. ...and I don't need google for my Latin

As for loss, try reading 13th century English. Your comments remind of a lot of people I meet who "know" o think they know one point of grammar and then assume they are an authority on English. Well I'm sure I could find loads of "ungrammatical" English in your posts if I tried, but the fact is that some of the most beautiful English ever written would fly in the face of your ideas on the language - and guess who I'd rather follow.

[BlackArtemis]

Why should they feel guilty teaching when they constantly have to deal with unprofessional and unskilled (Masons, electricians, mechanics, builders, police, administrators, civil engineers, construction workers, city planners, et al)?

/If you can't recognize the tongue in cheek jest, don't respond.

[gigman]

 

The Thai don't use tv to learn english and that's a big miss. Even the english words i hear from Thai tv are pronounced wrong so how the heck can they ever learn it properly?

Last week i got email from a professional languagescool in BKK, they needed teachers and the mail i received 100% confirmed that. What a crappy english that recruiter used, i corrected his request in proper english and sent it back to him, that was lesson #1 i wrote him. He still has to reply me.

But for 30k baht a month and living in BKK i can only laugh about what they must be thinking. I guess they don't want the teachers to drive a car, dress well, live in a proper house and eat healthy because for 30k that sure is impossible.

 


To be honest I can survive in BKK for 30 K.....
I am here already 5 month living on my savings.
Rent cost me 6500bht (Nice condo with kitchen/ security etc.)
Electricity 2500bht ( Big fridge , Air practically ON 24 hours, TV,and I am cooking my meals)
From Rangsit I am travelling to Asok to my Thai school for 1200bht / month (3 times a week)
I am paying cable TV 600bht
My phone with internet cost me 550-600/month
Total basic spending = 11000bht/month
Rest of money I am spending on groceries ...and I drink beer and whisky occasionally ...(Usually my weekly "big" shopping time cost me ~2000-2500 bht plus extra 1000 for milk coke etc.)
I am on westerners food hence cost me more but I am cooking a little different then my Thai g/f can join to the dinner .
In addition .. I am paying for everything ...She keep own money from her little business and I do not care because she is good helping family woman.
I do not smoke cigarettes ( it could be a big damage to budget) but i am new type user of e-cigarettes which cost me very very little.
As you can see on my 19000bht I can feed myself and my g/f and I must say ...I must start thinking to loose weight ...after time here I am 6 kilo more then before...
I have spent 2 months in Pattaya before without proper kitchen and in overall it cost me similar but I was loosing weight 555.
I can only say this....I am planning to spend time here on my coming retirement and now I know it is no problem at all and having 4500K/ month pension and if I will start seriously sharing life and spending with woman it should be more then easy life and doing nothing in this country.

P.S
I do not belong to people who are able to save money by careful planning. On top of it I must say I am meat lover and Thai is cheap compare to western country hence self cooking pays good.

[gigman]

a question concerning teaching English in Thailand. are the Thai students taught English or American?

-whom to blame for the bad behaviour of my neighbour?

or

-who to blame for the bad behavior of my neighbor?

disclaimer: i don't mind the spelling difference but my neckhair raises when i hear "who to blame?"

EL is a user driven language - it is not static........this makes a uniquely democratic tool. Unfortunately for you the use of whom is dropping out of any form of English US, international, Aussie, Indian, and British...they all are losing it.

"Whom" is the objective case - we still use it in some pronouns but it most other circumstances it has fallen out of use along with all the other cases. This is also the case with verb agreements.

If you went back a few hundred years or side stepped into other languages you would have to deal with many more case forms in many more words......

Anyone who has studied Latin will recognise the 6 (maybe even 7) cases -

1. Nominative

2. Vocative

3. Accusative

4. Genitive

5. Dative

6. Ablative

7. Locative

Also with gender and singular or plural; each requiring a different form of the noun - for instance:- datum/data (datorum even!), visum (singular, as used in Dutch) or visa the plural used in English

For example, German still uses some cases and together with French, has a full range of verb agreements. In English we dropped most of the changes in verb endings 800 to 200 years ago. Inexplicably, we retain the “s” in third person singular positive present simple (from Scandinavian origins I believe)

The possessive apostrophe “s” probably originated from the genitive case in Germanic which ended in “es”; the apostrophe denoting the missing “e”

Changes are not always concurrent; oddly enough it is the US that holds on to more vestiges of older English than the UK as after the revolution, they remained relatively isolated for some time and retained a lot of structures and forms that fell out of use in UK - “Fall” for Autumn, “Gotten” rather than “got” and “for sure” instead of “Yes” come to mind.

There are many reasons for this “loss”, but a lot has to do with the fact that English is a VAST language in terms of numbers of words and sources and we simply don't need those cases to make ourselves understood.

So, changes happen - get used to it.........

PS - "who is to blame" would be a more modern syntax and makes "who" the subject, "to blame whom" (object) sounds rather clumsy by today's standards

there is no such thing like a loss or sounding clumsy when using correct grammar. au contraire! and of course you can make yourself understood speaking Pidgin, Thainglish or Bluck-Uffricunlish. take that from a non-native speaker who's third language is English.

by the way, there is no seventh case (such as "locative") in Latin, no matter what some wiki-clowns claim

Sorry there is - if you want to argue Latin, go ahead, you're likely to find you're way out of your depth. ...and I don't need google for my Latin

As for loss, try reading 13th century English. Your comments remind of a lot of people I meet who "know" o think they know one point of grammar and then assume they are an authority on English. Well I'm sure I could find loads of "ungrammatical" English in your posts if I tried, but the fact is that some of the most beautiful English ever written would fly in the face of your ideas on the language - and guess who I'd rather follow.

I really like this post !!! ...

5555

I could not resist to leave here my Polish-English marks...

Regards to everyone who is able to understand my poor gramma .... if yes ...thanks ...No Problemo....

Polish Aussie in BKK

[thailiketoo]

Sorry there is - if you want to argue Latin, go ahead, you're likely to find you're way out of your depth. ...and I don't need google for my Latin

As for loss, try reading 13th century English. Your comments remind of a lot of people I meet who "know" o think they know one point of grammar and then assume they are an authority on English. Well I'm sure I could find loads of "ungrammatical" English in your posts if I tried, but the fact is that some of the most beautiful English ever written would fly in the face of your ideas on the language - and guess who I'd rather follow.

What is your depth? What education background do you have?

[JohnDodd]

Wilcopops by a nose up to now.

[simon43]

Wilcopops by a nose up to now.

Maybe, but I wouldn't discount Naam coming up fast on the inside, blinding Wilcopops with his extensive knowledge of Latin and air-con units, and leaving Wilco floundering and blowing hot air, (unlike Naam's air-cons.....)

[Naam]

Wilcopops by a nose up to now.

no doubt about that! mentioning "locative" makes him a winner

[LawrenceN]

How can you judge of the quality of English instruction? You use an apostrophe when forming a simple plural such as "teachers."

A non-native speaker can be a pretty good teacher of a language. Non-native speakers often have a really good perspective on what it takes to learn a second language.

No all this proves is the person pointing this out is a grammar Nazi, that's all....

the measure of the quality of English instruction comes from the ability of the student to communicate effectively and be understood in the ideas the student trying to convey.

If a student can do this who cares if an apostrophe is missing...

Point taken. I have re-read the original post. The OP was soliciting our help and opinions. I apologize to the OP, especially if, as it appears from his post, he's not a native English speaker himself. However, "grammar nazi" is extreme name-calling. Did I advocate putting apostrophe-abusers into slave labor camps? I don't jump on every misplaced article of punctuation or example of bad grammar, but I admit I'm annoyed by certain common errors. It seems pretty straightforward to me to simply tack on an 's' to form plurals.

In my initial mis-reading, I took the OP's post to be criticism of non-native speakers teaching English, so I unfairly jumped on him. I could have done better. I'm going to take another crack at it.

My wife, born in Phayao, was inspired to pursue higher education by just this kind of camp. The kids aren't going to come away from a weekend or week-long event fluent in English. The most important part of these camps is to stimulate the kids to want to learn. In my wife's case, even though the camps were conducted by teachers who could barely speak English themselves, plus one American Peace Corps Volunteer, she came away determined to become fluent in English and to study abroad. Eventually, she earned a doctorate from the University of Missouri, which is where we met. We are both pushing 60 now, retired to Chiang Mai after careers in the US for over 20 years. My wife taught English as a Second Language in Wisconsin that entire time. She continues to work as an education consultant for international schools. She has organized camps of the type the OP asked about, in Wiang Haeng District of Chiang Mai, and I have seen the kids' faces light up during the games and activities, a real break from the monotony of the classroom.

OP, go ahead and support these kids going to that camp. It may lead to something fantastic. Thanks for asking.

So, back to my apology, I over-reacted to perceived criticism. It hit a nerve. Non-native speakers can be exceptional language resources.That's what I should have emphasized in my original post, instead of attacking the OP. Again, sorry.

[Beanster1]

To answer your question.

Yes I have the right to intervene as I have a lot of respect for my GF and that will luckily flow towards her family. I have met her sister kids and their great and was impressed at least with the eldest that wanted to speak English with me.

I don't mine the money as its no problem for me but I would like my GF sister that struggles with money that wants the best for her kids and to get what she is paying for!

Who do you think pays the bills? I am in the privileged position to do so! Although my GF still wants to pay her way which I encourage! As she is my GF not my wife!

I have been here long enough to know the story in Thailand and maybe I am one in million but Thailand has been good to me!

It's ironic that someone complaining about bad English Teachers, who they haven't even met, has such bad English himself. The number of incomplete sentences and sentence fragments above is high. Let's hope you aren't teaching your girlfriend's sister's kids or you'll be complaining about yourself.

[wilcopops]

Language (Spelling) Nazis etc. - WHAT IS GOOD ENGLISH?

I may have put this quote in before but it is quite useful.

George Krapp in 1909 wrote.........

"good English" is language that "hits the mark," expressing "exactly what the speaker or writer wishes to express.

This mentions nothing about spelling or grammar, but the guy had a great knowledge and understanding both of English and its history.

English is used in many ways and the language varies accordingly; e.g. - conversation, law, religion public speaking all have there own conventions and terminology. It can be written, spoken or even sung......

Apart from being regional, English can be formal or informal, chatty or academic, hi-so/lo-so.......dialect, colloquialisms, slang are all parts of English

Here, on Thai Visa we are writing in what is tantamount to a verbal conversation......those who expect perfect grammar syntax and spelling, I would class as “nazis”.

Devoid of any real knowledge or argument, they substitute this with a series of assumptions about elementary grammar that they feel gives them some authority and by pointing out these obvious mistakes they seem to feel they rise above the need to put forward a clear well-argued point of view on the matter in hand. They attack the messenger rather than the message.

This is an informal conversation - a quick two-way banter.....not an academic paper with citations for peer review, (although it usually gets a reply!) so of course the content is bound to be FULL of mistakes and unconventional uses.... The writing is for the most part instant as in speech, and like informal speech, is full of errors - quite apart from the machines they are using to write with which have spell/grammar-checkers and word completion that fill in the wrong words for them - some contributors may have limited formal education, others might be dyslexic or have have other language difficulties, but should that deny them access to the conversation? So, the posts are will inevitably contain errors, (hopefully with a well thought out rational proposal) but so long as the message .......

“"hits the mark," expressing "exactly what the speaker or writer wishes to express.” -

....how can those petty jibes at “grammar” or spelling be seen as anything but the narrow-minded overzealous interjections of an person without a relevant point of view?

[wilcopops]

Are you a language Nazi?

Take a look at this checklist.....how many do you tick?

1: The Meanings of Words Should Not Be Allowed to Vary or Change

2: Children Can't Speak or Write Properly Any More

3: America Is Ruining the English Language

4: TV Makes People Sound the Same

5: Some Languages Are Spoken More Quickly Than Others

6: You Shouldn't Say "It Is Me" Because "Me" Is Accusative

Peter Trudgill - UEA - UK

[somchaismith]

Who cares, the teachers only get paid peanuts. At least you know in advance that they're a mixed bunch.

You always have the option of not whining and keeping the money in your pocket.

Thailand's educational industry is not about to change in the near future, as the only way to attract better Western teachers is to pay high salaries like they do in Thailand's small handful of accredited international schools.

[wilcopops]

Who cares, the teachers only get paid peanuts. At least you know in advance that they're a mixed bunch.

You always have the option of not whining and keeping the money in your pocket.

Thailand's educational industry is not about to change in the near future, as the only way to attract better Western teachers is to pay high salaries like they do in Thailand's small handful of accredited international schools.

That's not true on various levels - the salaries offered are on a par wit many international destinations and Thailand is a to more popular than some. (the salaries are much higher than native Thai teachers)

TEFL - does not aim itself exclusively at schools - there is a tendency for people to think of this as the only aspect, hen intact it is only part of the picture.The main problem with EL eduction in Thailand is not the teachers - (everyone's an expert and blames the teachers - just like they blame the drivers), the problem is the structure of education in Thailand and the current regulations relating to foreign teachers and the establishment of private language schools.

at present it is incredibly hard for a foreigner to set up a language school - partly due to the regs surrounding employing foreigners and the ratio of foreigners to Thais in a business and then there is the work permit situation which apt from being incredibly bureaucratic is job and location specific, which means eve with a work permit teachers are often working in breach of their restrictions.

it wouldn't take a lot for the government to change the regulations covering the establishment of private schools - we've seen how they change immigration regulations on little more than a whim...and this would make a huge difference to EL education in Thailand.

[connda]

I'm a professional and skilled English teacher, although considered 'over-the-hill' by those who are in the managerial seats of power. But 'young' and 'cheap' is what most educational outfits want from my interactions with them.

So me feel Guilty? Hell no. Talk to a Puiyai in a position to hire. Yeah, the one that can't string a sentence together in English. That'd be the one. Now break out your 'guilt spreader'. Lay it on liberally.

I've got better things to do in retirement.