Share your problems of recruiting decent Thai staff

[stickylies]

When you say "offering good salaries," how much are we talking?

Finding reliable, qualified staff is tough anywhere. And if it's in IT, they are in short supply. The best and brightest are in high demand. You ever consider internship from reputable universities? You'd get to see how some of these young people actually work, sort of a long interview process.

A very relevant point re salaries.

We often see members on here quoting the 300 baht per day wage who seem to forget this is the minimum wage and is usually applied to work of the most basic level.

We also see the teachers wage of 30,000 baht per month as some sort of benchmark when it most certainly is not.

A relative is employed as an engineer near Rayong - earns 200,000 baht a month. Quite a respectable amount in any country for onshore based employment

young IT/graphic Thai I know in BKK is paid 14.000-17.000 THB/month. he's complaining all the time about poor salary but tells me it's like that anywhere else in BKK (thai firm). when you're young u're paid **THAT** salary, take it or leave it. another friend, also young, is architect, both thai and UK trained. same complaints. 60-70H weeks, with loads of stress/shit/issues for 22-25000 thb... i don't know what an average salary is in the aforementioned fields BUT age is still important factor in thailand.

[wabothai]

Building a resort now in my 4th year and 19 crews. Do i need to say more?

[Pralaad]

OP rest assured you not the only one and the good news is it does not get any better.

The better news is, it is not only foreigner owned business but Thai owened as well.

Just look around when you go shopping or doing whatever. You find staff talking or playing on the phone , chatting and doing nothing.

I am renovating now, team of 5, 3 weeks later hardly any progress , why?? Because they sitting around chatting and when see me pretend to do something.

It's a huge problem which is hardly addressed and I honestly do not see it getting any better any time soon

[Eric Loh]

As an addition my favourite Thai restaurant in Bangkok is unable to retain many staffs as well so I assisted them two months ago in finding good staffs from villages around Sakon Nakhon. Those girls feel happy to see Bangkok and after two month they are still their.

BTW: 15000 Baht a month they get. Yes the money is high and they send a couple of thousands back to the parents and now I get served at my favourite restaurant in Bangkok by staffs from my village.

15,000 B seem very high. Is that for service staff like waiters? What is the working hour, do you provide accomodtion and meals? Do they share the tips? I did employed some out station staffs from Udon Thani. 2 left after about 2 months - got bored. 1 (17 yrs) got in love and spending nights with new bf and later resigned. Would like to get some info from you. BTW, I only pay 300B a day, free accomodation and meal and I day off per week. Thanks.

[MobileContent]

@ Eric Loh - They pay for accommodations and as well the food. I am not sure of they share the tips. I will ask next week.

[MuuDaeng]

Thought before that nation wide services would do the thing when needed English speaking ("decent" level) staff with some engineering/CAD education and/or experience, like JobThai, Manpower etc. Nope, people sent beautiful applications and cv's, but when you tried to contact them... By email no answer through these services or straight. By phone unbelievably difficult; first couple of minutes usually tried to explain who you are and why you call them, about half of them just hang off the phone. Yes, I'm not native English speaker but think it was not the point. And no, I don't speak fluent Thai either (but after these 8+ years living here can communicate a little).

Probably no more than couple of 10 of job seekers who send application shows up. Small, not well-known companies like mine doesn't necessarily get that many applications at one round...

Edited May 30, 2014 by MuuDaeng

[Searat7]

For many years in the USA I used a personality test which was very accurate. Personal and job conflicts would be seen and I found that different jobs require different personality patterns. I know at least one company which translated the test into Thai. Having Thais take the test in English would not work well because they would not know the meaning of many words. Use of this testing requires training and a payment but reduced employee turnover makes this a good investment and a valuable tool.

As mentioned by others I agree that paying a good salary helps reduce turnover too.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ravip]

" 3rd world mentality....what a hoot."

First of all, is there absolutely no business in Thailand (local or foreign) that is running perfectly?

Are all successful businesses/organisations in Thailand run by foreigners?

Integration of cultures is quite a serious game, and if you are not aware of that, things are bound to fail. Money, money money is NOT everything for everyone and, if one dishes out money and expects 100% loyalty, it is a myth.

Basically, it is like a rich man's/woman's marriage - it will not last solely for the sake of money, there are 'other' more important factors that should be in place!

Indeed...what a hoot this world is!!!

Edited May 30, 2014 by ravip

[belg]

employ your girlffriend or wife, her mother, her father, brothers, uncle, aunt, her other "brother" .. that is almost enough for 2 WP !

everybody happy, and they will work as hard as your other staff

[Doc46]

You probably should just get ghost employees to fill out the quota, then you don't need to think about that aspect when hiring/firing

It will cost you like 1800 per month per employee in taxes (or something like that)

* Regarding the girl and the mother maybe it was just someone else that she called "mother" doesn't mean it was her actual mother that was dead or vice versa.

Yea they do that very often,My girl has at least 4 lady friends that call her Mam, they are a lot younger than my girl, that's why.

[ggt]

I find Thais at massage parlors are will to negotiate a price...and deliver the goods...

[Mitker]

Don't worry, you're not alone..

I won't details all the stories about hiring staff even if some are really fun

I have now around a dozen Thai on the payroll and am the only westerner in the company. None speaks English. I thus feel like it makes me taste the perfect expat experience

If anyone asks me, I'll tell i am very happy with the current team (6 months). That's because the former ones had been so disappointing. I really wouldn't like to lose the actual ones

From my experience, most of the workers are not as much interested by the money as by the working "atmosphere". That's something particularly significant if you hire a group (friends, relatives): one is unhappy and they all leave the next day. Working for a foreigner is definitely not a plus (at similar wage) because of the cultural gap that may make some feel uncomfortable

Other conclusions i reached after several years of hiring: multitasking is totally alien to them; anticipation simply doesn't cross their mind and efficiency appears to be definitely a farang concept. Increase the wages to motivate the best and they will slow down and arrive late, convinced you definitely need them and that they don't need to prove anything anymore. I don't increase anymore: i pay bonus on achievements

Despite this, I go to work happily every morning because i learned to live with that. It makes the workload double or more since you don't have a team but soldiers. And I know I have to be ready to hear tomorrow that they all just moved somewhere else without advance notice. Work is not a commitment in their view, it is an occupation of the moment.

This being said, 5 to 10% escape from these general rules and can really be reliable, responsible and clever (couldn't spot the anticipation trait yet). Almost showing a will for a "career". Sometimes you can't believe they come from the same cultural background

[CharlesHH]

It is not petty theft; it is my "two hammer" rule. I had some Thai workmen at my home and I shared with them, because they were tool less and clueless, TWO of my nice hammers. At the end of the day, all gone, only one of my hammers remained. I was puzzled why not both hammers stolen. I was told that the reasoning was that

-I could use only one hammer and why have two?

-I was obviously more wealthy than them.

-I should share and besides someone may bring the hammer back someday.

-but it would be wrong to take my only hammer.

-I should relax.

Also remember it is your fault if a motorbike hits you because, after all, you came to Thailand, and if you had not, you would never been hit. Case closed.

this doesn't just apply to foreign business owners. all my thai friends who own businesses complain about the same issues with employing good quality staff. interestingly their most common complaint is petty theft which seems to be rife by employees here.

[Naroge]

So many comments about bad Thai employees here.

I've started several companies in Thailand and other Asian countries. Yes, it is difficult to find educated and experienced staff, but that's a result of the education system here.

We never offered free lunches or higher salaries than the market conditions. What we offered was development opportunities and positions they could grow in. We also conducted several interviews by both foreign and local staff.

OK, we have had the odd employee who left within the probation period, but that's a very small percentage and didn't worry me. Most of the employees stayed for very long time and took the opportunity to grow with the company and being promoted to higher positions.

And I've never seen an employee trying to "cheat" the system and avoid work.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

[RichBKK]

It's a curates egg. Good in parts.

Been in offices where people would be ok with working late at night with no overtime. Overtime as a concept is unheard of here

Maybe the lack of real employee rights is compensated for employees being allowed to coast through a day somewhat. Or if they have to finish a job, they don't mind taking a few hours if it means they can do stuff at their own pace while chatting, facebooking and gossiping and so on. But could relate to that myself as I felt I did my best work when I could switch off a bit between bursts. British offices with their stupid no distraction, no web surfing, constant monitoring of email etc, load of crap in my view, and would never go back to that. Stifles creativity and turns out a pecking order proportionate with how much of a bullying c*** you are or skillful ability to shout at a high pitch or do a fine line in witty belittlement

Actually I quite liked working in thai offices when I did it. I did two jobs with the same (also farang) boss and she was driven to complete distraction at first when trying to lay down the law but later just went with it. Also worked In UK offices and hated the internet monitoring, obnoxious attitudes of some senior and junior management and the 'now now now' mindset. None of that here. It can be frustrating if people just let others do things wrong because they feel uncomfortable with the idea of telling someone off but at the same time, the importance of a nice atmosphere is very under rated in my view. I always liked being constructively told what to do rather than some prick screaming at me. Though admittedly here some feel uncomfortable even doing the former

Guess it's about compromise. And the fact that here a lot of businesses have the same laid back culture so stressing about it may not be worth the mental energy. And it's hard to be too annoyed with most thai staff I have worked with because they are mostly just very polite, nice and well meaning. Just haven't really been taught anything about initiative or proactivity. That's not what the education system here was designed for

Edited May 30, 2014 by RichBKK

[fletchsmile]

Perhaps you need a rethink on your interviewing style, and/or your leadership and employment style.

It is as you say often difficult to recruit the finished article here in Thailand. Unfortunately that is what many people hiring are looking for. Too many employers in Thailand focus on getting someone who can already do the job they want.

Also bear in mind in many industries there is a much greater demand than supply. So you have to work out what you are going to give that others won't. A reason why people should work for you, why they will enjoy it and why they will stay. Money is often not the answer here, as the competitive market just means people will always offer X+ in the future...

I believe a superior strategy is recruiting people with potential, who aren't quite there yet. Then once hired give them freedom, and spend much more time on coaching them, developing them and taking an interest in them.

My interviews are longer than I used to do back in the UK, and I spend a lot of time understanding what makes them tick and people with the right attitude, qualities and potential. I often see people twice or more. I put a lot of time and effort into the recruitment process, and to be honest enjoy it. Not easy to find, but better spending hours before hiring than weeks or months after. After a while you learn which are the best questions, scenarios to use at interviews. Ask a question challenge the answer, give an opposite opinion, see if they reconsider etc. A small number then make it thru

So then they come in with the right attitude, potential, eagerness and willing to work and learn. Basically I give them the skill sets and coach and develop them, look after them so they see their careers developing. It's important for me to give back.

The personal interest in staff motivates them for their work performance. They see themselves going places, see someone who actively cares from them and their career for the cliched but true win win. That the person coaching them has a lot of experience and knowledge in their field that maybe isn't there yet in Thailand is a big attraction.

Hire the right people. Put the focus on them and what you can do for them, personally in their career as well as removing barriers to success in the workplace. If you get the hiring right the rest falls into place. Show them how to get where they want to go and they reciprocate.

Too many foreign employers focus on what they can get instead of what the employee really wants...

To be honest, recruiting, retaining and developing staff is one of the most enjoyable things about working in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 30, 2014 by fletchsmile

[WilliamCave]

Not to Thai

Thais the have 's and have nots

The ones who work hard the ones who don't

I also like others have friends who own Thai business Thai and farang and they prefer non Thais.

For all those reasons you at said

[marcusd]

We have dozens of very qualified Thai staff, working very hard for us. Some have been with us for many years.

Our secret? We pay them more. And we treat them like professionals. Maybe that's why the qualified ones aren't applying for the jobs mentioned here. They're still working for companies that know the secret.

Still a tiny fraction of what they'd cost us back home for an equivalent work product.

I too have many Thai staff.

1. Training - no one will never be what you want. Test the skills and as another poster says take the ones with initiative and drive. They will reward you and themselves

2. Incentive - pay well with guidelines and achievements to be reached

3. Interest - make the position interesting not just a JOB.

I also do this at home in Australia and that's how I keep my staff till they earn long servie leave!

PS I run a BOI company and a THAI company here....

[HerbalEd]

In USA this is how I quickly eliminated most applicants for jobs requiring simple math. I asked them to tell me what was 15% of 32 without a calculator or pen & paper. 60 to 70% of people couldn't do it.

[iancnx]

Add to my earlier post and acknowledging above comments that older married employees are more stable. I wonder if the youngsters don't want to work (in rural Thai) because they are expected to hand the cash over to their parents?

[ChoakMyDee]

I'm amazed at the number of foreigners who start a business in Thailand and complain about unreliable and unmotivated staff. I've lived here for a few years and I realized in the first few months what the score was. If you go to a Thai restaurant, they all serve exactly the same food. If you go to a Thai hardware store, they all have exactly the same items. There is no individual thought here. they are not taught how to think in schools. They are programmed via rote and routine and propaganda. Yet you expect these same people to suddenly become highly motivated free thinkers with a good work ethic just because they are working for you? There is a reason they call the 3rd world the 3rd world. You should have done your homework before opening a business here. I've seen so many foreign businesses fail here.

I offered my Thai wife's brother a job working for my company. He was already enrolled in a university learning electronics so he had the skills. The only stipulation was he had to be proficient in English. He would have been starting with a salary of 180,000 Baht/month. He turned down the job because he didn't want to learn English. He is now working in a factory in Chonburi that makes tires for cars. He's choking on fumes all day and making less than a tenth of what he could have made if he had just learned to speak English. I don't think I could ever understand the thought process behind how/what many Thai people think.

I think the best thing to do is not try to change the Thai people. We should come here and try to get along in their world, not try to change them. They don't think like we do and they shouldn't be forced to. They have many good qualities and they have a way of life that works for them. The best way to live here is to bring your own money and relax and enjoy life. It would be too stressful for me to have a business here and I don't envy the people that do.

[ableguy]

I have a different problem but simular. I need to hire bar girls in Chiang Mai. They are not easy to find and very difficult to train. fortunately those we hire have stayed. they are making lots of money and that is the attraction - lots of money.

Must be cute, where is your pub ?

[drjden]

Maybe he could do a search of staff here: (http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_literacy/illiterate_adults_in_england)

"More common is the use of the term "functionally literate". Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old."

Sorry, sorry forgot the source http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/

Best regards

Danny

Edited May 30, 2014 by drjden

[sadhukar]

I'm amazed at the number of foreigners who start a business in Thailand and complain about unreliable and unmotivated staff. I've lived here for a few years and I realized in the first few months what the score was. If you go to a Thai restaurant, they all serve exactly the same food. If you go to a Thai hardware store, they all have exactly the same items. There is no individual thought here. they are not taught how to think in schools. They are programmed via rote and routine and propaganda. Yet you expect these same people to suddenly become highly motivated free thinkers with a good work ethic just because they are working for you? There is a reason they call the 3rd world the 3rd world. You should have done your homework before opening a business here. I've seen so many foreign businesses fail here.

I offered my Thai wife's brother a job working for my company. He was already enrolled in a university learning electronics so he had the skills. The only stipulation was he had to be proficient in English. He would have been starting with a salary of 180,000 Baht/month. He turned down the job because he didn't want to learn English. He is now working in a factory in Chonburi that makes tires for cars. He's choking on fumes all day and making less than a tenth of what he could have made if he had just learned to speak English. I don't think I could ever understand the thought process behind how/what many Thai people think.

I think the best thing to do is not try to change the Thai people. We should come here and try to get along in their world, not try to change them. They don't think like we do and they shouldn't be forced to. They have many good qualities and they have a way of life that works for them. The best way to live here is to bring your own money and relax and enjoy life. It would be too stressful for me to have a business here and I don't envy the people that do.

<deleted>, are you serious about the 180k???

I have an electronics degree as well, can I get a job?

[ChoakMyDee]

I'm amazed at the number of foreigners who start a business in Thailand and complain about unreliable and unmotivated staff. I've lived here for a few years and I realized in the first few months what the score was. If you go to a Thai restaurant, they all serve exactly the same food. If you go to a Thai hardware store, they all have exactly the same items. There is no individual thought here. they are not taught how to think in schools. They are programmed via rote and routine and propaganda. Yet you expect these same people to suddenly become highly motivated free thinkers with a good work ethic just because they are working for you? There is a reason they call the 3rd world the 3rd world. You should have done your homework before opening a business here. I've seen so many foreign businesses fail here.

I offered my Thai wife's brother a job working for my company. He was already enrolled in a university learning electronics so he had the skills. The only stipulation was he had to be proficient in English. He would have been starting with a salary of 180,000 Baht/month. He turned down the job because he didn't want to learn English. He is now working in a factory in Chonburi that makes tires for cars. He's choking on fumes all day and making less than a tenth of what he could have made if he had just learned to speak English. I don't think I could ever understand the thought process behind how/what many Thai people think.

I think the best thing to do is not try to change the Thai people. We should come here and try to get along in their world, not try to change them. They don't think like we do and they shouldn't be forced to. They have many good qualities and they have a way of life that works for them. The best way to live here is to bring your own money and relax and enjoy life. It would be too stressful for me to have a business here and I don't envy the people that do.

<deleted>, are you serious about the 180k???

I have an electronics degree as well, can I get a job?

No, there are no openings now. There have been 2 Americans hired since then.

[pinkpanther99]

Perhaps we can put a positive note to this thread by all us contributing some small productive action.

For us we test/train for two days and see that they can do the job before offering a position.

Also long interviews.

In the end I think that money is important for skilled positions.

Testing for two days is a good idea, and we probably should have done this with our graphic designer.

Thanks for the tip

[pinkpanther99]

We have dozens of very qualified Thai staff, working very hard for us. Some have been with us for many years.

Our secret? We pay them more. And we treat them like professionals. Maybe that's why the qualified ones aren't applying for the jobs mentioned here. They're still working for companies that know the secret.

Still a tiny fraction of what they'd cost us back home for an equivalent work product.

That was my point exactly. If the OP is not paying a competitive salary, he will in fact have a revolving door of employees constantly looking for greener pastures. And these young people all know what the going rate is.

We pay very competitive salaries. The graphic designer was on 25k/month and admin girl was on 15k/month. I might add that we are not located in Bangkok.

[pinkpanther99]

Contact an international university. Students have to do an internship to graduate. You can employ them as an intern. it is a good way to find talent with a work ethic at low cost. If they are good keep them after graduation and if not good tell their academic supervisor and request another intern.

Good idea. Thanks.

[pinkpanther99]

So many comments about bad Thai employees here.

I've started several companies in Thailand and other Asian countries. Yes, it is difficult to find educated and experienced staff, but that's a result of the education system here.

We never offered free lunches or higher salaries than the market conditions. What we offered was development opportunities and positions they could grow in. We also conducted several interviews by both foreign and local staff.

OK, we have had the odd employee who left within the probation period, but that's a very small percentage and didn't worry me. Most of the employees stayed for very long time and took the opportunity to grow with the company and being promoted to higher positions.

And I've never seen an employee trying to "cheat" the system and avoid work.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

Also good to hear positive feedback and perhaps a good idea to conduct interviews by local and foreign staff.

[pinkpanther99]

Perhaps you need a rethink on your interviewing style, and/or your leadership and employment style.

It is as you say often difficult to recruit the finished article here in Thailand. Unfortunately that is what many people hiring are looking for. Too many employers in Thailand focus on getting someone who can already do the job they want.

Also bear in mind in many industries there is a much greater demand than supply. So you have to work out what you are going to give that others won't. A reason why people should work for you, why they will enjoy it and why they will stay. Money is often not the answer here, as the competitive market just means people will always offer X+ in the future...

I believe a superior strategy is recruiting people with potential, who aren't quite there yet. Then once hired give them freedom, and spend much more time on coaching them, developing them and taking an interest in them.

My interviews are longer than I used to do back in the UK, and I spend a lot of time understanding what makes them tick and people with the right attitude, qualities and potential. I often see people twice or more. I put a lot of time and effort into the recruitment process, and to be honest enjoy it. Not easy to find, but better spending hours before hiring than weeks or months after. After a while you learn which are the best questions, scenarios to use at interviews. Ask a question challenge the answer, give an opposite opinion, see if they reconsider etc. A small number then make it thru

So then they come in with the right attitude, potential, eagerness and willing to work and learn. Basically I give them the skill sets and coach and develop them, look after them so they see their careers developing. It's important for me to give back.

The personal interest in staff motivates them for their work performance. They see themselves going places, see someone who actively cares from them and their career for the cliched but true win win. That the person coaching them has a lot of experience and knowledge in their field that maybe isn't there yet in Thailand is a big attraction.

Hire the right people. Put the focus on them and what you can do for them, personally in their career as well as removing barriers to success in the workplace. If you get the hiring right the rest falls into place. Show them how to get where they want to go and they reciprocate.

Too many foreign employers focus on what they can get instead of what the employee really wants...

To be honest, recruiting, retaining and developing staff is one of the most enjoyable things about working in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch

Great post. A lot of good advice here that has given me plenty to think about. Thanks very much