MH370 may have crashed close to India

[impulse]

What I find amazing is that nobody seems to think it's sitting on a Chinese military base somewhere.

It's a lot more plausible than the American conspiracy theories.

[canuckamuck]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

@Boomerangitang. Do you think that the people who are suggesting a black ops operation believe that the Americans, or whoever, were after the plane itself? No wonder you won't consider the possibility. If you did not know, the plane was full of Chinese defense engineers and scientists many of which had leading edge weapons tech knowledge. From a black ops point of view this was potentially a high value target. A cold war strike that will be buried longer than the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin attack was.

I think this theory is as plausible as the suicide theory, and the botched hijack theory. Something extraordinary happened to this flight.

[NeverSure]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

@Boomerangitang. Do you think that the people who are suggesting a black ops operation believe that the Americans, or whoever, were after the plane itself? No wonder you won't consider the possibility. If you did not know, the plane was full of Chinese defense engineers and scientists many of which had leading edge weapons tech knowledge. From a black ops point of view this was potentially a high value target. A cold war strike that will be buried longer than the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin attack was.

I think this theory is as plausible as the suicide theory, and the botched hijack theory. Something extraordinary happened to this flight.

With all due respect, there would have had to be too many people involved. Someone would have squealed.

Kidnapping is always a federal crime. In this case it would come under the jurisdiction of the military courts if the military was involved, and also the civil courts because civilians were on board. The Federal civilian courts would probably defer to the military courts to prosecute.

It is a capital offense to commit kidnapping resulting in death, to commit an airline hijacking resulting in death, causing death by using an explosive, premeditated murder... LINK You could get life for a lot less and remember, there is no parole in the Federal System.

If I was involved in any way with such a thing, I would go to my attorney and have him approach the feds looking for immunity for me in exchange for blowing the whistle.

I find the whole concept totally implausible.

Edit. I find it a lot easier to believe that the plane was hijacked, even by the captain, and flown to a terrorist sponsored nation.

Edited June 7, 2014 by NeverSure

[boomerangutang]

Chinese defense engineers and other Chinese specialists go flying on planes every day - to all sorts of destinations. Most Chinese engineering and tech advances are pilfered from farang. For Americans (special Ops?) to kill everyone on board a commercial airline for some reason related to 'Chinese defense engineers' is hare-brained at best.

One of many reasons that wouldn't have happened: Even if the chances of being found out were 1 in 10,000, it would be such an embarrassment for US, not to mention charges of mass murder. Not even the Chinese, who are always trying to find smut on the US, are broaching that ridiculous theory. Plus it would be akin to an act of war against Malaysia. Completely bonkers, old chap.

[canuckamuck]

Most of the resistance to this theory is that the backlash would be too harsh. Or that it would have been illegal. However American (and other countries) counterintelligence agencies have been doing shocking unimaginable things for a very long time. They are very good at handling backlash as things begin to unravel.

Here is a little light reading on the CIA's past Link. There is better, more officially documented stuff out there, but I have to go to work.

I am not sold on any theory, but I do not accept your reasons that this one is impossible.

[impulse]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

'Cause if they drag someone(s) off the plane in Beijing, it makes the news and creates an international incident.

[somchaismith]

It's at least reassuring that over the years, with thousands of man hours and millions of dollars invested on R&D by the boffins at Curtin University, Perth, those culminate efforts have resulted in the miraculous technical advance and aid to mankind of a machine that can detect "a dull oomph!"

Priceless!

I'm sure they used the machine that goes "Ping" as well!

Really, this whole thing got to be an April wind-up.

[impulse]

Another thing that surprises me is that they haven't offered a $20 Million reward for finding the plane.

They seem to have spent 4-5x that much for search operations to date, and have much more budgeted for the search going forward.

Another plausible (but not likely) scenario is that it crashed on land and the locals are scrounging through the wreckage to salvage whatever they can before officials come and take it away.

In any case, a $20 Million reward (and immunity from prosecution, and a new identity, perhaps) may possibly solve the mystery tomorrow. At the very least, you'd have a new sense of urgency from all the ships at sea, airplanes flying over, and satellite imagery guys. And maybe set off a bunch of private sector searches.

[boomerangutang]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

'Cause if they drag someone(s) off the plane in Beijing, it makes the news and creates an international incident.

Nutzoid. If China wanted someone coming in on a plane, they'd just tap him on the shoulder and say 'please come with us.'

As for CIA: sure, they've done many clandestine things. Some they've been caught for, like 'Bay of Pigs' or the Iran-Contra thing. But they're not imbeciles. Any official US involvement with the disappearance of that plane is ridiculous.

The most plausible scenario, which fits with the evidence, however scant, is:

Pilot suicide-mass murder, coupled with adept ditching at sea to leave as little debris trail as possible. Where? No one knows.

Edited June 7, 2014 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

Malaysian authorities probably like the proliferation of wild conspiracy theories, as it absolves culpability from Malaysia Airlines, and their government/military. Mr. Mahathir probably raises a glass of whiskey every time a new theory crops up, as long as it steers criticism away from his beloved Malaysia Airlines (and its employee; the pilot) - where he and his family/buddies have invested heavily.

[canuckamuck]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

'Cause if they drag someone(s) off the plane in Beijing, it makes the news and creates an international incident.

Nutzoid. If China wanted someone coming in on a plane, they'd just tap him on the shoulder and say 'please come with us.'

As for CIA: sure, they've done many clandestine things. Some they've been caught for, like 'Bay of Pigs' or the Iran-Contra thing. But they're not imbeciles. Any official US involvement with the disappearance of that plane is ridiculous.

The most plausible scenario, which fits with the evidence, however scant, is:

Pilot suicide-mass murder, coupled with adept ditching at sea to leave as little debris trail as possible. Where? No one knows.

It all depends on how important the person, info, or technology was that was on that plane. For all we know it could have been a game changer. It may have seemed the ends justified the means.

[impulse]

It all depends on how important the person, info, or technology was that was on that plane. For all we know it could have been a game changer. It may have seemed the ends justified the means.

+1. We don't know who all was on the plane. We only know about the folks they want us to know about. Within a few days of the disappearance, China came out and said they had thoroughly investigated all of the Chinese passengers on the plane and gave them all a clean bill of health. A little quick off the line IMHO.

With their Uighur and Tibet problems, they may be trying to avoid embarrassment that one of their own citizens slipped past their screening process and was able to bring down a plane. Unlikely? Sure. But no more unlikely than 1000 other scenarios.

I really don't think there was a government (any government) conspiracy to hijack the plane. I'm just pointing out that the US government isn't the only one to point fingers at. There are any number of reasons that any number of governments would not have wanted the plane and its passengers to arrive in China- not at all unique to the USA.

Of course, that's not saying they're not guilty of many atrocities. Just not all of them.

[P45Mustang]

Most of the resistance to this theory is that the backlash would be too harsh. Or that it would have been illegal. However American (and other countries) counterintelligence agencies have been doing shocking unimaginable things for a very long time. They are very good at handling backlash as things begin to unravel.

Here is a little light reading on the CIA's past Link. There is better, more officially documented stuff out there, but I have to go to work.

I am not sold on any theory, but I do not accept your reasons that this one is impossible.

If the US wanted to eliminate what you are suggesting there would have been other more focussed and logistically easier tactics they could have employed.

Quite within CIA or other US agency capability..... if you want to go this route.

Personally, I don't.

Quiet stealth much more effective than worldwide speculation.

But as I say, I don't think this was the motive.

[P45Mustang]

^Once again, why would China hijack a plane heading to China?

'Cause if they drag someone(s) off the plane in Beijing, it makes the news and creates an international incident.

Nutzoid. If China wanted someone coming in on a plane, they'd just tap him on the shoulder and say 'please come with us.'

As for CIA: sure, they've done many clandestine things. Some they've been caught for, like 'Bay of Pigs' or the Iran-Contra thing. But they're not imbeciles. Any official US involvement with the disappearance of that plane is ridiculous.

The most plausible scenario, which fits with the evidence, however scant, is:

Pilot suicide-mass murder, coupled with adept ditching at sea to leave as little debris trail as possible. Where? No one knows.

It all depends on how important the person, info, or technology was that was on that plane. For all we know it could have been a game changer. It may have seemed the ends justified the means.

If so, US would have applied more targeted elimination procedure prior to important person getting on a passenger plane.

[P45Mustang]

BTW.

Digital transmission of 'game changing technology' would be a lot easier and more sensible than putting it in handbaggage or the cargo of a commercial passenger plane I would have thought.

300 GB hard drive via FedEx or through high security ether.

Edited June 7, 2014 by P45Mustang

[P45Mustang]

It all depends on how important the person, info, or technology was that was on that plane. For all we know it could have been a game changer. It may have seemed the ends justified the means.

+1. We don't know who all was on the plane. We only know about the folks they want us to know about. Within a few days of the disappearance, China came out and said they had thoroughly investigated all of the Chinese passengers on the plane and gave them all a clean bill of health. A little quick off the line IMHO.

With their Uighur and Tibet problems, they may be trying to avoid embarrassment that one of their own citizens slipped past their screening process and was able to bring down a plane. Unlikely? Sure. But no more unlikely than 1000 other scenarios.

I really don't think there was a government (any government) conspiracy to hijack the plane. I'm just pointing out that the US government isn't the only one to point fingers at. There are any number of reasons that any number of governments would not have wanted the plane and its passengers to arrive in China- not at all unique to the USA.

Of course, that's not saying they're not guilty of many atrocities. Just not all of them.

Is an ethnic grievance motive completely off the wall?

[metisdead]

A post containing an inflammatory image has been removed.

[canuckamuck]

P45 your argument against this theory is that there are easier ways to do something like this. But, a plane crash/disappearance can wipe out many targets at once while being easily be blamed on many things. And if you can keep the plane from being discovered it is the perfect crime. I am certain plane crashes have been used before. So many important people have died this way. Also the fact that it is so audacious that no one would believe it even if it became the most likely scenario.

Imagine the scenario where a group of defense engineers have discovered the key to the next great leap in the arms race. And wow, they are all going to be at the same conference and flying the same jet home. For the sake of national security do you let that opportunity pass? Would the Americans really let it go?

[P45Mustang]

P45 your argument against this theory is that there are easier ways to do something like this. But, a plane crash/disappearance can wipe out many targets at once while being easily be blamed on many things. And if you can keep the plane from being discovered it is the perfect crime. I am certain plane crashes have been used before. So many important people have died this way. Also the fact that it is so audacious that no one would believe it even if it became the most likely scenario.

Imagine the scenario where a group of defense engineers have discovered the key to the next great leap in the arms race. And wow, they are all going to be at the same conference and flying the same jet home. For the sake of national security do you let that opportunity pass? Would the Americans really let it go?

Reckon they would have done it with far greater subtlety. US knowledge of IBM geeks in Malaysia would have given them alternative solutions.

But I don't think that was the motive anyway, and Snowden parallels are probably a perverse distraction.

My guess: pilot with axe to grind against malaysia or somebody else with axe to grind about ethnic justice.

[P45Mustang]

P45 your argument against this theory is that there are easier ways to do something like this. But, a plane crash/disappearance can wipe out many targets at once while being easily be blamed on many things. And if you can keep the plane from being discovered it is the perfect crime. I am certain plane crashes have been used before. So many important people have died this way. Also the fact that it is so audacious that no one would believe it even if it became the most likely scenario.

Imagine the scenario where a group of defense engineers have discovered the key to the next great leap in the arms race. And wow, they are all going to be at the same conference and flying the same jet home. For the sake of national security do you let that opportunity pass? Would the Americans really let it go?

So instead of letting them sell it to the PRC you would enquire what that they have discovered.

And if you didn't think or know they had discovered anything, you wouldn't need to eliminate them.

Story does not stack up.

[balo]

I still think my iceberg theory is a good one. They should look further south .

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[P45Mustang]

If anybody is hell bent on the South Indian Ocean, the 7th Arc is as good as it gets.

[canuckamuck]

P45 your argument against this theory is that there are easier ways to do something like this. But, a plane crash/disappearance can wipe out many targets at once while being easily be blamed on many things. And if you can keep the plane from being discovered it is the perfect crime. I am certain plane crashes have been used before. So many important people have died this way. Also the fact that it is so audacious that no one would believe it even if it became the most likely scenario.

Imagine the scenario where a group of defense engineers have discovered the key to the next great leap in the arms race. And wow, they are all going to be at the same conference and flying the same jet home. For the sake of national security do you let that opportunity pass? Would the Americans really let it go?

So instead of letting them sell it to the PRC you would enquire what that they have discovered.

And if you didn't think or know they had discovered anything, you wouldn't need to eliminate them.

Story does not stack up.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. My scenario would require there was sufficient intel to make a move.

[P45Mustang]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, apart from the implication that US may have eliminated IBM geeks from providing PRC with global military capability.

But I may have misunderstood that also.

[canuckamuck]

Well if you need to call smart people IBM geeks go ahead. The planes passengers included many defense engineers and scientists who were citizens of PRC. Some of which worked for American defense contractors. So there is the possibility that the disappearance of MH370 was related to keeping China from developing some significant technological advantage.

Edited June 7, 2014 by canuckamuck

[P45Mustang]

Well if you need to call smart people IBM geeks go ahead. The planes passengers included many defense engineers and scientists who were citizens of PRC. Some of which worked for American defense contractors. So there is the possibility that the disappearance of MH370 was related to keeping China from developing some significant technological advantage.

Right. Back to square one.

IF that was the motive the US may have taken a different more efficient, less visible, elimination method.

One such method would be to do it less visibly. i.e. before they got on the plane.

Another possibility would be to have a quiet conversation with the PRC citizens who worked for American defense contractors and say something along the lines of ' You ain't leaving here buddy with information that belongs to us. "

I think you are barking up the wrong motive btw.

[boomerangutang]

Well if you need to call smart people IBM geeks go ahead. The planes passengers included many defense engineers and scientists who were citizens of PRC. Some of which worked for American defense contractors. So there is the possibility that the disappearance of MH370 was related to keeping China from developing some significant technological advantage.

To what extent that's true, is debatable. Even if the plane was full of 'defense engineers' there is always at least one other person who knows what they know. Or, at the very least, there is a digital or paper trail. You can exterminate a person, but that doesn't mean that person's secrets are fully wiped from existence.

The 'intentional downing' scenario is too fraught with 'the cat getting out of the bag.' If just one person talked or one shred of evidence pointed tangibly in that direction (an email for example), then it would be awful publicity for the US. Worse than when they mistakenly bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade and killed two Chinese employees. Worse even than the mistaken shooting down of an Iranian commercial jet by a US warship, about 20 years ago. The jet was taking a flight path directly toward the USN ship. Worse publicity, even than the Korean Air Jet shot down by Soviet MIGS as it strayed over USSR territory. ....because none of those tragedies were pre-meditated mass murders of civilians, as MH370 would have been, if shot down by military planes.

[P45Mustang]

Important thing to remember is World Cup Football starts in just over a week.

Evil people who did 9/11 or MH370 need to be put in their place.

If that requires US intervention, I am not complaining.

PRC and Malaysia do not inspire me.

[P45Mustang]

So. Back to topic.

Who was responsible for this MH370 incident?

Cos it doesn't look like Boeing 777 failure despite what that Dr M says.

US. Malaysia. PRC. GB. Aus. Other?

Cast your vote, it is not rocket science.

[NeverSure]

P45 your argument against this theory is that there are easier ways to do something like this. But, a plane crash/disappearance can wipe out many targets at once while being easily be blamed on many things. And if you can keep the plane from being discovered it is the perfect crime. I am certain plane crashes have been used before. So many important people have died this way. Also the fact that it is so audacious that no one would believe it even if it became the most likely scenario.

Imagine the scenario where a group of defense engineers have discovered the key to the next great leap in the arms race. And wow, they are all going to be at the same conference and flying the same jet home. For the sake of national security do you let that opportunity pass? Would the Americans really let it go?

This requires a presumption that the Chinese are capable of discovering the next great leap...

Right now they are trying to discover how the US builds a stealth airplane and a basic cargo plane. Their latest cargo plane looks like a direct copy of the US's smaller cargo plane. That plane with wings removed would literally fit into the US's largest cargo plane. The doors could be closed and the plane could carry the weight, wings and all.

What have the Chinese discovered since gun powder? They are net copiers and even bought IBM's Lenovo computer brand to get the technology. Even then IBM didn't give them everything they wanted. They manufacture for the West things that are developed in the West and are good at making fake copies of copyrighted items.

The past and current history of China says they don't have squat that the US would want or need to stop.