Change in unit design and defects

[andbod]

I have bought a unit in a condo and I'm now in the process of evaluating defects.

During the inspection I found a lot of changes in material quality and unit design :

1) Bedroom floor : instead of been engineered wood floor, it is ceramic floor

2) Kitchen : Instead of high quality wood cabinets I got a cheap cabinets with particle board from SbDesign

3) Kitchen : instead of grainte top they changed with a laminate top

4) Kitchen : the design is completely different from the rendering and looks much cheaper

5) Toilette : bath tube is missing and they changed with a walk-in shower

6) Pool : instead of a marine wood door they changed with a aluminium framed door (it is a huge door 3,5 x 5 mt)

Beside that there are a lot of small problems like missing silicon in a few points in the bathroom, missing wallpaper finishing, door is not closing propertly, some missing common property items (they advertised a bar and a gym while there are not),

I have refused to accept the defects and asked to fix everything before unit handover but they refused so I have asked to get a compensation since the value of all the above is more than 700.000 BTH (escluding the missing common areas) and once again they refused even to give 1 BTH. Instead (even if I have not accepted the defects) they sent me the final invoice and "politely" reminded that if I will not pay immediately they will default all my previous payments (about 70% of unit value) and I will get nothing.

My lawyer told me that I have few options :

1) Pay everything and fix the unit myself or sell it

2) Do not pay a fill a lawsuit (knowing how the things works in Thailand seems not a real option)

Each of the options seems to me a very bad solution. Have someone else experienced a similar situation ? What you sugget do do ?

Thanks a lot!

Andrea

[KittenKong]

Unfortunately the contract you signed probably gives them the right to do all this. If it were otherwise your lawyer would surely have told you. So there is probably not much you can do apart from accept the unit and reflect on the widespread dishonestly of people selling property in Thailand.

You could try and contact other buyers in the building who have presumably also been "done" in the same way, with a view to forming a pressure group that could engage the services of just one lawyer to try and get some compensation.

Moral: don't hesitate to rewrite contracts in Thailand before signing them. If the vendor doesn't agree to that, just walk away.

[andbod]

Thank you very much for your response.

Problem with other owners is that the overall quality of the building is good and the changes were made only to the pool access units, which are 4 and only 2 of them has been sold.

Regarding the contract was made by my lawyer and states that the seller can make changes only to comply with regulation authorities and, even in that case, the material quality has to be the equivalent or comparable.

Even if the changes were made at regulation authorities request (which is not the case) I can find quite hard to imagine that granite and laminate or wood and particel board are "equivalent or comparable" quality but this is exactly what the developer says and the lawyer gave me no other possibility than fill a lawsuit in this case.

I have been just told from the lawyer that I have still another option that is cancel the purchase in which case the devloper will give me back the money I sent - 30%.

The lawsuit seems a dead end (do to how it works in Thailand), buying a unit just to sell it the same (it will be on the market forever), I guess I will end up loosing 30% of the money I have already paid.

[PattayaPhom]

THB 700k......afraid you gets what ya pays for.... Surprised that sea view Olympic sized infinity pool didn't materialise along with the granite, marble and gold plated fittings

[KittenKong]

Even if the changes were made at regulation authorities request (which is not the case) I can find quite hard to imagine that granite and laminate or wood and particel board are "equivalent or comparable" quality but this is exactly what the developer says and the lawyer gave me no other possibility than fill a lawsuit in this case.

I have been just told from the lawyer that I have still another option that is cancel the purchase in which case the devloper will give me back the money I sent - 30%.

The lawsuit seems a dead end (do to how it works in Thailand), buying a unit just to sell it the same (it will be on the market forever), I guess I will end up loosing 30% of the money I have already paid.

Do a search in this forum. Some people have reported similar experiences with altered specifications and if I remember correctly they got some sort of satisfaction in the end.

Whilst the prejudice may be 700K I doubt that the lack of the advertised finishes would actually make the unit worth 700K less than it would be if it had them, so maybe it's worth hanging onto it.

[KittenKong]

THB 700k......afraid you gets what ya pays for.... Surprised that sea view Olympic sized infinity pool didn't materialise along with the granite, marble and gold plated fittings

Maybe you should have re-read the original post before advancing your professional opinion. The OP said that 700K is the approximate cost of putting the missing/altered items right, not the value of the whole unit.

I hope you pay more attention to your own sales.

[PattayaPhom]

Value of the above

Sent from my TRUE BEYOND 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cloggie]

It has been said before - never ever buy from brochures!

[andbod]

Thanks once again!

The 700k is the cost of putting the missing/altered items right, unit value is about 15 times more and it is a quite small one (the unit price is about 20% more of other units/area prices due to high ceiling and high standard finishes that I didn't got). I would be satisfied even with a smaller amount since there are some defects (like the pool access door or missing bath tube) that won't be possibile to fix.

I have found the post you mentioned and a few others that I didn't notice in my first search and elaborated a strategy with the lawyer that I hope it will be effective : I have rejected in writing to accept the unit and asked officialy to fix all the defects/provide missing items, until that I consider the developer in default and will count penalties (it is not too much, about 1000 THB per days but better than nothing).

According to the experience of other people this helps to speed the things up. If this fails I will try to enforce the contract with the help of the Office of Consumer Protection to get my money back.

[andbod]

It has been said before - never ever buy from brochures!

You are absolutely right and I generally don't, but in this case the main building structure was almost complete and the quality was really good, plus they had an adiacent finished project that is quite nice and I have asked to put all the photos/renderings as a part of the contract and to have the full specification of materials including manufacturer name.

It seems that even like that it is impossibile to get what you agreed. New rule learned.

[KittenKong]

Value of the above

Indeed. The "above" was the list of faults.

It seemed pretty clear to me but of course I'm not a property tout professional.

[KittenKong]

.... I have asked to put all the photos/renderings as a part of the contract and to have the full specification of materials including manufacturer name.

If they did that and you have a copy of it then you should be on a very good footing to start legal action. When they see you are serious I would not be at all surprised if they capitulated long before it actually got to court.

[KittenKong]

The 700k is the cost of putting the missing/altered items right, unit value is about 15 times more and it is a quite small one (the unit price is about 20% more of other units/area prices due to high ceiling and high standard finishes that I didn't got). I would be satisfied even with a smaller amount since there are some defects (like the pool access door or missing bath tube) that won't be possibile to fix.

It just goes to prove that even the up-market developers are basically cheap sh*ts at heart. There really is no hope for these people.

I have found the post you mentioned and a few others that I didn't notice in my first search and elaborated a strategy with the lawyer that I hope it will be effective : I have rejected in writing to accept the unit and asked officialy to fix all the defects/provide missing items, until that I consider the developer in default and will count penalties (it is not too much, about 1000 THB per days but better than nothing).

According to the experience of other people this helps to speed the things up. If this fails I will try to enforce the contract with the help of the Office of Consumer Protection to get my money back.

Hope it goes well. Do report back here.

If you are in Pattaya I think you can get a free legal (second) opinion at the new tourist court, though I also think that at 700K the amount of the claim precludes you from using the new "fast track" tourist claim procedure. I think they are supposed to be introducing the same tourist courts in other main tourist destinations too, and presumably anywhere with significant new condo builds would be enough of a destination to qualify. Worth checking in your area anyway.

[VocalNeal]

Buy the show unit?

[PattayaPhom]

Value of the above

Indeed. The "above" was the list of faults.

It seemed pretty clear to me but of course I'm not a property tout professional.

Exactly, and obviously not read my post properly

[andbod]

Buy the show unit?

Unfortunately the show unit has a different design than mine otherwise I would have saw immediately the differences.

[andbod]

I have found the post you mentioned and a few others that I didn't notice in my first search and elaborated a strategy with the lawyer that I hope it will be effective : I have rejected in writing to accept the unit and asked officialy to fix all the defects/provide missing items, until that I consider the developer in default and will count penalties (it is not too much, about 1000 THB per days but better than nothing).

According to the experience of other people this helps to speed the things up. If this fails I will try to enforce the contract with the help of the Office of Consumer Protection to get my money back.

Hope it goes well. Do report back here.

If you are in Pattaya I think you can get a free legal (second) opinion at the new tourist court, though I also think that at 700K the amount of the claim precludes you from using the new "fast track" tourist claim procedure. I think they are supposed to be introducing the same tourist courts in other main tourist destinations too, and presumably anywhere with significant new condo builds would be enough of a destination to qualify. Worth checking in your area anyway.

I will report the updates. It is Phuket and they also have a tourist court there but I really hope to find a solution that doesn't involve a lawsuit.

[Thai Travel Bug]

Under section 6 of the condominium act it would appear that you should have recourse in one way or another to act upon the contract as all promises and inducements are said to form a part of the contact. This shows favour in relationship to the buyer and not the seller.

Section 6/1

In the case of a person with a freehold in the land and building in accordance with Section 6 has made the advertisements to sell the units in the condominium, such person must keep in his office copies of the advertising contents or pictures or letters of induction advertised to the general public regardless of in whichever the forms until all units are sold out and, in addition, at least, one set of copies of such documents must be forwarded to the condominium corporate for retention, as well.

Regarding the advertisements on the sales of the units in the condominium on the part relating to the evidences and details set forth under Section 6, the advertising contents and pictures must be identically corresponding to the evidences and details submitted along with the application for registration and must clearly indicate the details relating to common properties apart from being provided under Section 15.

The advertising contents and pictures or letters of induction shall be deemed to be an integral part of the Agreement to Sell a Unit or the Contract of Sale of a Unit, as the case may be. Should the meaning of any contents or pictures be contradictory to or inconsistent with the contents in the Agreement to Sell a Unit or the Contract of Sale of a Unit, the construction thereon shall be made in a manner advantageous to the party to buy or the party buying the unit.

Section 6/2

An Agreement to Sell a Unit or a Contract of Sale of a Unit between the person with freehold in the land and building under Section 6 and the party to buy or the party buying the unit shall be made in accordance with the form of the Agreement or Contract set forth by the Minister.

Any part of an Agreement to Sell a Unit or a Contract of Sale of a Unit under paragraph one which is not executed in accordance with the form of the Agreement or Contract set forth by the Minister and is not advantageous to the party to buy the unit or the party buying the unit, such part shall be unenforceable.

[andbod]

I finally got everything sorted out : letters from my lawyer sorted no effect until the contruction period was done and he noticed the developer in writing that the unit was not completed in time and late delivery penalties will apply until the unit will be exactly as advertised. At this point they got in touch with me (no idea why contacted me instead of the lawyer) and proposed to look at few other units that were still available and decide if I would like to exchange with my current one.

I found a unit that meets my expectation and everything is sorted out.

Thank you very much everyone for the kind support!

[rayongchelsea]

Under section 6 of the condominium act it would appear that you should have recourse in one way or another to act upon the contract as all promises and inducements are said to form a part of the contact. This shows favour in relationship to the buyer and not the seller.

Section 6/1

In the case of a person with a freehold in the land and building in accordance with Section 6 has made the advertisements to sell the units in the condominium, such person must keep in his office copies of the advertising contents or pictures or letters of induction advertised to the general public regardless of in whichever the forms until all units are sold out and, in addition, at least, one set of copies of such documents must be forwarded to the condominium corporate for retention, as well.

Regarding the advertisements on the sales of the units in the condominium on the part relating to the evidences and details set forth under Section 6, the advertising contents and pictures must be identically corresponding to the evidences and details submitted along with the application for registration and must clearly indicate the details relating to common properties apart from being provided under Section 15.

The advertising contents and pictures or letters of induction shall be deemed to be an integral part of the Agreement to Sell a Unit or the Contract of Sale of a Unit, as the case may be. Should the meaning of any contents or pictures be contradictory to or inconsistent with the contents in the Agreement to Sell a Unit or the Contract of Sale of a Unit, the construction thereon shall be made in a manner advantageous to the party to buy or the party buying the unit.

Section 6/2

An Agreement to Sell a Unit or a Contract of Sale of a Unit between the person with freehold in the land and building under Section 6 and the party to buy or the party buying the unit shall be made in accordance with the form of the Agreement or Contract set forth by the Minister.

Any part of an Agreement to Sell a Unit or a Contract of Sale of a Unit under paragraph one which is not executed in accordance with the form of the Agreement or Contract set forth by the Minister and is not advantageous to the party to buy the unit or the party buying the unit, such part shall be unenforceable.

We are currently in the appeal court based on this very premise.

[donx]

I finally got everything sorted out : letters from my lawyer sorted no effect until the contruction period was done and he noticed the developer in writing that the unit was not completed in time and late delivery penalties will apply until the unit will be exactly as advertised. At this point they got in touch with me (no idea why contacted me instead of the lawyer) and proposed to look at few other units that were still available and decide if I would like to exchange with my current one.

I found a unit that meets my expectation and everything is sorted out.

Thank you very much everyone for the kind support!

It's really good to hear it all worked out for you. Others on this forum can learn from your experience. I think that having all the details in the contract forced the developer's hand.

The townhouse my wife bought last year was finished as far as the developer was concerned so there weren't any unexpected differences. We did make our own modifications which included adding hot water heaters in the showers, glass enclosures in the showers, air conditioners in 2 bedrooms and the living room, and a glass wall and door for the living room.

[falkan]

interesting interesting..who was the developer on this project and location?

[andbod]

The developer is Chalong Concrete and the project is in Karon.

I must admit that, at the end, they had been very reasonable, they even made me an extra discount on the new unit. I agree that the key was a good contract from my lawyer.

[andbod]

Unfortunately the story didn't come to a good end as I hoped.

The person in charge of the company has changed few weeks ago and the new staff have no idea of the agreement I had, they can't find my contract copy (luckly I have the digital copy and reteined all the email) that clearly states that they will switch the units and don't want to proceed with title transfer.

Now they are asking me to pay for both the units and I would need to sell one of the units by myself since they don't have any contractual obligations and they don't recognize the new contract. Of course it is very unlikely to be able to sell one the units in current market situation. I must admit that they are not making any pressure on me but I'm quite concerned.

Also the old company manager is aking me to pay a part of the money cash, saying that it will help to solve everything. I have asked a lawyer to help me but it seems that the situation is complicated and there is no a simple solution and I would not like to become the victim of some unfortunate accident.

Edited January 3, 2015 by andbod

[KittenKong]

Sorry to hear that.

Just because the management changed should not affect your agreement which in theory was with the company (via its representative) and not with the former representative/manager himself.

I would not want to pay any cash: that always just seems to vanish into the woodwork.