Naturalisation-british Citizen

[Mossfinn]

Scouse et al,

Continuation of a previous theme but on a differing tack,

I still havn't sent off for Brit Cit for the wife because of varying reasons partly alluded to in previous threads, however:

Having read and re-read the guidelines on the IND website and the notes through the AN(New) application it appears that there is a distinct lack of 'burden of proof' required for the application.

I have searched this forum, but have to date found no relevant thread, as yet directly linked to required info to be sent with application.

The way I have read it, as long as you have complied with all sections of the app' form, fitted the legal formalities i.e of sound mind! etc stated on the IND website guidelines,

Applicants Birth certificate

Letter from employer

Passport or certified solicitors copy

Home office letter stating ILR

and

Spouses Passport

Birth certificate and marriage certificate

Even some of these are belt and braces and not absolutely required if one or other are supplied.

I know this sounds a considerable amount of evidence, but there is no request that I can see for wage slips, bank statements, P60, proof of ability to support, is this correct?

Is it because proof of ability to suppoort has all been established previously? I don't particularly want to send all these if not required because of the too much info clouding the real issue aspect.

Sending end of week.

Thanks for any response.

For clarity purposes relating to previous threads, step-daughter not being included in application.

Regards

Moss

Forgot the ' Life in the UK' certificate

Edited June 19, 2006 by Mossfinn

[GU22]

I know this sounds a considerable amount of evidence, but there is no request that I can see for wage slips, bank statements, P60, proof of ability to support, is this correct?

Yes.

Is it because proof of ability to suppoort has all been established previously?

Yes.

[Mossfinn]

Thanks GU22

I thought it seemed a little obvious, but no harm in checking with those in the know.

Prompt response yet again, so thanks for that.

Regards

Moss

[GU22]

You're welcome.

And don't worry about asking questions. 'Tis better to be sure than cock up the application because you didn't want to ask an "obvious" question!

[Mossfinn]

I must admit GU22, it took me a while to pose this question, in the event of looking stupid, but I guess its too late in the day to worry about looking stupid now.

I have been able to get through all the other visa applications without any help and no refusals but this one has thrown me a little, but thats the merits of this forum and perhaps an example to others there are no stupid questions only people who know the answers.

Good Luck

Moss

[vinny]

Hello everyone once again, just an update.

I have spoken to the Home office over the phone, explaining the situation and they accepted there is an anomaly with the visa issued for the step-daughter at the time.

He has stated that I can send it in and they will rectify the visa, free of charge.

However, the same guy has also stated that my step-daughter would not be eligible for Brit. Cit thereafter until she had completed a three year residency here.

Even after I had made the observation that she should be given the same status as her mother and I had been advised that it was only a two year residency for a minor over 13 years.

I have since checked the Link supplied by Vinny, thanks Vinny, in a previous post and this is clear although it does also state a little later, 9.15.23 & 9.15.24 that these are only guidelines.

So one step forward and a half step back.

Proceedings have halted for the moment as I am requesting visas from the Irish Embassy for a visit there shortly.

Now theres another story!!!

But you might also comment that I am the common denominator in both instances, I'm beginning to believe so!!

Regards

Moss

If you include your step daughter in with your wife's application, she would be considered under s3(1). See Naturalisation at discretion, Chapter 18.

9.5.12 Dependants under 18 included in a parent(s) application fall to be considered for registration under s.3(1) (unless they have an entitlement, e.g. under s.1(3)). If we are approving the parent(s) application for naturalisation, we should normally register the children, provided the relevant criteria in Chapter 9.15 are met.

s 3 Acquisition by registration: minors.

(1) If while a person is a minor an application is made for his registration as a British citizen, the Secretary of State may, if he thinks fit, cause him to be registered as such a citizen.

(2) A person born outside the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made within the period of twelve months from the date of birth, to be registered as such a citizen if the requirements specified in subsection (3) or, in the case of a person born stateless, the requirements specified in paragraphs (a) and ( B ) of that subsection, are fulfilled in the case of either that person's father or his mother ("the parent in question").

(3) The requirements referred to in subsection (2) are--

(a) that the parent in question was a British citizen by descent at the time of the birth; and

( B ) that the father or mother of the parent in question--

(i) was a British citizen otherwise than by descent at the time of the birth of the parent in question; or

(ii) became a British citizen otherwise than by descent at commencement, or would have become such a citizen otherwise than by descent at commencement but for his or her death; and

© that, as regards some period of three years ending with a date not later than the date of the birth--

(i) the parent in question was in the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory at the beginning of that period; and

(ii) the number of days on which the parent in question was absent from the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories in that period does not exceed 270.

(4) If in the special circumstances of any particular case the Secretary of State thinks fit, he may treat subsection (2) as if the reference to twelve months were a reference to six years.

(5) A person born outside the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made while he is a minor, to be registered as such a citizen if the following requirements are satisfied, namely--

(a) that at the time of that person's birth his father or mother was a British citizen by descent; and

( B ) subject to subsection (6), that that person and his father and mother were in the United Kingdom[ or a qualifying territory] [FN1] at the beginning of the period of three years ending with the date of the application and that, in the case of each of them, the number of days on which the person in question was absent from the United Kingdom[ and the qualifying territories] [FN2] in that period does not exceed 270; and

© subject to subsection (6), that the consent of his father and mother to the registration has been signified in the prescribed manner.

(6) In the case of an application under subsection (5) for the registration of a person as a British citizen--

(a) if his father or mother died, or their marriage was terminated, on or before the date of the application, or his father and mother were legally separated on that date, the references to his father and mother in paragraph ( B ) of that subsection shall be read either as references to his father or as references to his mother;

( B ) if his father or mother died on or before that date, the reference to his father and mother in paragraph © of that subsection shall be read as a reference to either of them; and

© if he was born illegitimate, all those references shall be read as references to his mother.

There is no 3 year requirement s3(1), nor in Chapter 9.15 and beyond. I think that the Home Office guy may have been mixed up with the 3 year requirement in s3(2) or s3(5). From what I understand, I think that your step daughter would qualify under the relevant criteria in Chapter 9.15, unless they've changed their guidelines.

Best wishes and good luck!

Edited June 20, 2006 by vinny

[Mossfinn]

Hi Vinny,

The reply you have is from a previous post and you have highlighted the relevant criteria that the 'Home Office Guy", was incorrect with his observations, in his defense he did state this was not his usual department.

I also need to explain that Scouse had also given me the relevant information by PM and e-mail which is why I was able to state with a certain amount of confidence to this guy that he was possibly incorrect, where I got the reply 'this was not his usual department'.

This is a while ago and a little convoluted so the timeline could be a little distorted.

However, the anomalous stamp in the passport is still not corrected for various reasons, so are you suggesting that I could include in her in the AN (New) application even with this incorrect stamp, that has been admitted to be incorrect by the relevant department at the Home Office.

I will PM you with addtional details why it hasn't been corrected so as not to have it on an open forum.

Thanks for the continued interest, with the amount of time several of you have spent on this and other enquiries, it has probably had the beneficial effect of freeing IND personnel in expediting their own website and helplines.

Again thanks for your time.

Moss

[Mossfinn]

Hi Vinny,

The reply you have is from a previous post and you have highlighted the relevant criteria that the 'Home Office Guy", was incorrect with his observations, in his defense he did state this was not his usual department.

I also need to explain that Scouse had also given me the relevant information by PM and e-mail which is why I was able to state with a certain amount of confidence to this guy that he was possibly incorrect, where I got the reply 'this was not his usual department'.

This is a while ago and a little convoluted so the timeline could be a little distorted.

However, the anomalous stamp in the passport is still not corrected for various reasons, so are you suggesting that I could include in her in the AN (New) application even with this incorrect stamp, that has been admitted to be incorrect by the relevant department at the Home Office.

I will PM you with addtional details why it hasn't been corrected so as not to have it on an open forum.

Thanks for the continued interest, with the amount of time several of you have spent on this and other enquiries, it has probably had the beneficial effect of freeing IND personnel in expediting their own website and helplines.

Again thanks for your time.

Moss

Edit, On further thought, Scouse gave further advice on why the three years qualification was incorrect, not as you are suggesting, naturalisation under 'discretion' a point I have never come across before.

[vinny]

However, the anomalous stamp in the passport is still not corrected for various reasons, so are you suggesting that I could include in her in the AN (New) application even with this incorrect stamp, that has been admitted to be incorrect by the relevant department at the Home Office.

See Registration of minors at discretion, Chapter 9. If she satisfies the relevant criteria in Chapter 9.15, then I think she can be included. However, future intentions may also be significant.