Foreign teachers in Thailand now need education degree?

[pinkpanther99]

When I first came to Thailand, I taught English for a couple of years.

I'm not an English teacher, I'm a classic TEFLer and I was only teaching here as a means of staying in the country if I'm being honest.

That's not to say I didn't do my best and I worked very hard for the kids etc.

Anyway, I digress.

I still have a few friends who are teachers here and they're in a panic about increasing numbers of posts they've seen on the Ajarn forum that state that foreign teachers in Thailand now need to have a degree in education to be able to teach here.

Is this true?

We were talking last night and my argument was that I doubt it's viable for the education authorities to enforce this as they won't have many farang teachers left if they do!

That said, is it about time for Thailand to overhaul it's policy on teaching English and start paying internationally competitive salaries in order to attract qualified and educated professionals to teach English to its kids?

I can see this argument from both sides, having been a TEFLer but now I have a child of my own I obviously want to see education standards in Thailand dramatically improve before my daughter starts school.

[PermaNewb]

good luck...on all points...

[snottgoblin]

Well, I guess if they want real teachers, then they'll need to start paying real wages.

[Bernard Flint]

Sir

Your honesty is not a trait on here, well done Sir

If the Amount of english teachers vanish, as you suspect, then it has to be a good thing doesnt it??

Many TV members joke about tefl teachers, under achievers, like the ed visa crew, but it,s true and border runs have reduced, due to clean up,s like this.

BTW

To the ed visa crew that actualy have learned to speak/read/write thai, well done, i couldnt learn much, other than basic words,numbers.

[pinkpanther99]

Sir

Your honesty is not a trait on here, well done Sir

If the Amount of english teachers vanish, as you suspect, then it has to be a good thing doesnt it??

Many TV members joke about tefl teachers, under achievers, like the ed visa crew, but it,s true and border runs have reduced, due to clean up,s like this.

BTW

To the ed visa crew that actualy have learned to speak/read/write thai, well done, i couldnt learn much, other than basic words,numbers.

But if all the English teachers go elsewhere, is it better to have unqualified native English speakers as teachers, rather than having no one at all?

Just asking like

[zeichen]

First of all having a teacher's license isn't a new thing. It has been policy for over 6 years. There are several ways to appease this requirement and having a degree in education is one way but not the only way.

Second of all there are many qualified teachers here in Thailand making low wages and are happy. It is giving them a chance to work and live abroad and build some experience to help them get better jobs back home later.

Thailand salaries aren't really that low for similar positions. China has many jobs paying about 30-40k a month for TEFL positions but they usually add housing and flights. The lower wages in Thailand like 15-20k are way too low but anything above 40k is a reasonable salary.

The problem isn't the availability of teachers it is the mismanagement of them.

[masuk]

First of all having a teacher's license isn't a new thing. It has been policy for over 6 years. There are several ways to appease this requirement and having a degree in education is one way but not the only way.

Second of all there are many qualified teachers here in Thailand making low wages and are happy. It is giving them a chance to work and live abroad and build some experience to help them get better jobs back home later.

Thailand salaries aren't really that low for similar positions. China has many jobs paying about 30-40k a month for TEFL positions but they usually add housing and flights. The lower wages in Thailand like 15-20k are way too low but anything above 40k is a reasonable salary.

The problem isn't the availability of teachers it is the mismanagement of them.

The low salaries of Thailand are ok if you want to live like a backpacker for a year or two and forgo little luxuries.

The Thai government are certainly keeping out more mature teachers who would come if salaries were reasonable.

In my opinion, insisting on a degree before teaching here is over the top. There are a great many graduates in a range of disciplines whose grammar and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. To have at least TEFLA training is essential. The rest will come with experience

There are experienced English teachers in this country, but no degree, and their expertise is lost. Go to China or Malaysia and listen to the number of people around you who can speak English. It's their second language.

[Scott]

Human resources depends a great deal on how you manage them. Unfortunately, most of the Thai schools expect unqualified people to actually be able to teach. In fact, many of these people can play a useful role in the classroom, because they are native speakers, but they may not have the skills necessary to impart that knowledge well.

TEFL teachers are fine. They have learned some good techniques for teaching and can generally manage a classroom. A degree in education is probably better, but not everyone is skilled in actually teaching the English language, which is what is needed.

I have seen them put a white uniform on the cleaning lady and she is suddenly the school nurse. The proof, however, is in the outcome and right now, the outcome in Thailand is not particularly positive.

[wileycoyote]

Interesting post

[Jim walker]

In Thailand its always about money cheap cheap is always best, too much qualifications then to expensive, I have a lot of teacher friends in Bangkok and every one of them are very dedicated to the children but I don’t think many are qualified English teachers.

[gerry123]

wheat from chaff comes to mind go get the quals then come back by that time the mass repatriation will have subsided

then plenty of jobs for all fully qualified at the correct salaries because simply supply and demand balance itself in the favor of the skilled

[zeichen]

"Go to China or Malaysia and listen to the number of people around you who can speak English. It's their second language."

China has a long way to go before it can consider English it's second language. There may be some pockets but prior to the Olympics there weren't that many English signs. Even today in Beijing you cannot speak English to most taxi drivers, resturaunts, or even most doctors. The amount of money they are spending and the influx of teachers, that will change in the next decade but will still only be the middle classes and above that will benefit from education.

Malaysia was a colony so of course their English is definitely advanced for the majority of the population.

[PattayaPhom]

I have noticed a few positions on Ajarn lately requiring a PGCE as well as TEFl....I assume this is what the OP means rather than Ba. Bsc which has been a requirement for many years although not always adhered to

[laurenrebecca]

As an English teacher, and having been here for over 2 years now, I can say that the system DOES need to be overhauled. However, making an Education degree a requirement is NOT the way to go. I myself do not have an Education degree. I have been teaching for a large amount of my life though in military, corporate and government settings. I do have a TEFL certificate.

By the standards that have been proposed, I will be out of a job when my extension of teaching license expires in 2 years, and will have to return to the USA. I have done continuing education, and I have also challenged the Thai teachers' test, passing 4 of the 9 sections. Now though, the test has been discontinued and there is no clear steps anymore for us to get a license other than to have the Education degree.

I agree that the backpackers with nothing to do that are just teaching to pass the time until the weekend should go. The teachers that are working on a tourist visa should go - the visa runs have effectively killed that now. But make all of us have an Education degree, and there are going to be NO teachers in this country inside of a year. Salaries are not competitive (out in the sticks in Phrae province, I make 30ish K Baht, and live comfortably, but near any city or tourist center it would be difficult to live on.

If the requirement for an Education degree goes into effect, a higher salary MUST be paid. End of story. I can't afford to go back to school on my salary to get my M. Ed. degree....so unless something changes I, too, will be leaving Thailand in 2 years.....even though my school has already offered to keep me on permanently.

[lildragon]

I work in a school with 30 foreign teachers. Out of those 30 maybe only 3 or 4 are qualified and none of those people have a degree in anything education related (the ones that did have ed degrees briefly worked at my school and then left when they found out they could make double/triple the money at a high end school).

Some of those teachers are fantastic at their job despite the lack of degree, some are middle of the way and others are just wasters looking to get by somehow. But the teachers that are good (which is most of them) and have built a life here in Thailand, does that count for nothing? I am "degree-less" but I have been at that school for 5 years and am damn good at my job, I feel that experience should count for something. I DO want to get qualified but I don't wish to return to the UK to do so (I have a girlfriend, friends and life here).

I am looking into studying here in Thailand but there is not one Thai university that I have found that offers any international course in Education. I was looking at other subjects but now that is going to be irrelevant?

Middle of the way schools and government schools are going to suffer for this. There's no way they could afford to pay the wages that the big international/private/top government schools pay. The wasters need to be turfed out I agree but to just try and overhaul the whole thing without giving it much thought is a massive own goal I think.

But hey, it is Thailand so if I bother to get a degree (not in education) that won't be enough for me in the long run? Is that confirmed?

[arjunadawn]

I am just going to throw this out here and hope I can get some information: I previously had no intention of working in Thailand. My fiance and her family are all professionals and have suggested I teach, in order to at least have some daily occupation and not grow idle. I felt I could offer no real skill, so have remained suspect. I do have two bachelors (BS) and a masters (MS). I did major in English in my undergrad. I suspect the only thing others would be interested in is if I taught English. I have no other English credentials, except book writing.

Can I teach here? Do I have a background that would be useful? Am I approximately qualified as my peers?

Edited June 10, 2014 by arjunadawn

[kleelof]

Thai schools are finding a great solution to the issues of hiring Farang - Filipinos.

They often have degrees in math, science and education. Most of them speak English quite well to near native. They will work for less, work longer hours and not raise a stink when they are asked to do something beyond their job description.

[tonypace02]

I am a retired American teacher with a degree in English Education. I can't get a job teaching English in the Thai public school system because I am too old. Two years ago I did some consulting work at a local college. All the classes I worked were on the third or fourth floors. I would go to the classrooms with teachers in their 30's and 40's. By the third floor I had to slow down so as not to embarrass them.

[rimmyrimjob]

I read AJARN daily....and have not seen this "requirement" as stated in this post. Perhaps this is a troll post???? Perhaps the OP could identify specifically where this AJARN info is located (if it truly exist????). It would be nice to review it. Could the OP provide a link? Perhaps this type of fact-lacking post should be deleted if proper facts can not be provided??

[lildragon]

I read AJARN daily....and have not seen this "requirement" as stated in this post. Perhaps this is a troll post???? Perhaps the OP could identify specifically where this AJARN info is located (if it truly exist????). It would be nice to review it. Could the OP provide a link? Perhaps this type of fact-lacking post should be deleted if proper facts can not be provided??

My Filipino guitar tutor told me teachers at her school were being asked for this. However, they are other music teachers (that are qualified in music performance, not music ed) and are now required to go back to get some sort of extra qualification. They are also Filipino's and I get the sneaky suspicion that things would be harder for them here in Thailand than with westerners (believe it or not...)

It was actually music performance I was interested in studying for at ABAC. Not sure if I want to waste 4 years if it won't let me get another teaching job (whether it be teaching English or music) at the end of it though

[whiteman]

go back home and get qualified then come back to sunny thailand if that is the rules then thats the rules live with it.

[enufsaid]

English teachers, as an owner of an eng language school I feel I'm qualified to comment. I find those with a degree in education and or English really not up to much for teaching English as a second language. To be a good English teacher you need to be able to "step outside the box" & those trained to teach in western schools aren't to happy about changing their method of teaching. I'll employ & pay well some one with a TEFL or such, but also pay some one with a masters in TEFL even better. I must say I prefer mature teachers, rule of thumb, they're reliable & punctual & actually hand in lesson plans. Younger ones are there for the money & can't get out the door quick enough at the end of the day. These are my thoughts & experiences in the teaching industry in Australia ; however, having taught in Thailand. I saw pretty much the same.

[lildragon]

English teachers, as an owner of an eng language school I feel I'm qualified to comment. I find those with a degree in education and or English really not up to much for teaching English as a second language. To be a good English teacher you need to be able to "step outside the box" & those trained to teach in western schools aren't to happy about changing their method of teaching. I'll employ & pay well some one with a TEFL or such, but also pay some one with a masters in TEFL even better. I must say I prefer mature teachers, rule of thumb, they're reliable & punctual & actually hand in lesson plans. Younger ones are there for the money & can't get out the door quick enough at the end of the day. These are my thoughts & experiences in the teaching industry in Australia ; however, having taught in Thailand. I saw pretty much the same.

In addition to the decent qualified teachers we've had at my middle of the way school, we also had some really bad ones. One had serious mental problems and other couldn't teach his way out of a paper bag. There are TEFL only teachers much better at the job.

But hey ho, no piece of paper, no joy.

[Jimbolai]

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go back home and get qualified then come back to sunny thailand if that is the rules then thats the rules live with it.

Tell them darn it. They still do not understand, tell them again.

[Paulzed]

They wont get many teachers with a degree for the khinial wages that they pay

[Bernard Flint]

As an English teacher, and having been here for over 2 years now, I can say that the system DOES need to be overhauled. However, making an Education degree a requirement is NOT the way to go. I myself do not have an Education degree. I have been teaching for a large amount of my life though in military, corporate and government settings. I do have a TEFL certificate.

By the standards that have been proposed, I will be out of a job when my extension of teaching license expires in 2 years, and will have to return to the USA. I have done continuing education, and I have also challenged the Thai teachers' test, passing 4 of the 9 sections. Now though, the test has been discontinued and there is no clear steps anymore for us to get a license other than to have the Education degree.

I agree that the backpackers with nothing to do that are just teaching to pass the time until the weekend should go. The teachers that are working on a tourist visa should go - the visa runs have effectively killed that now. But make all of us have an Education degree, and there are going to be NO teachers in this country inside of a year. Salaries are not competitive (out in the sticks in Phrae province, I make 30ish K Baht, and live comfortably, but near any city or tourist center it would be difficult to live on.

If the requirement for an Education degree goes into effect, a higher salary MUST be paid. End of story. I can't afford to go back to school on my salary to get my M. Ed. degree....so unless something changes I, too, will be leaving Thailand in 2 years.....even though my school has already offered to keep me on permanently.

Thats a crying shame as you seem to care,far more than the ones you mentioned in your post.

good luck and hope you continue teaching

[star kicker]

I have noticed a few positions on Ajarn lately requiring a PGCE as well as TEFl....I assume this is what the OP means rather than Ba. Bsc which has been a requirement for many years although not always adhered to

the education ministry probably dont know what they mean themselves.

i have gone for a couple of jobs with education agents where qualifications weren't mentioned until i thought i should mention i had a CELTA - they didnt know what it was. i didnt take work through these agents as the obviously had no idea what they were talking about.

its highly likely education department staff dont know what a PGCE is.

[culicine]

Thai schools are finding a great solution to the issues of hiring Farang - Filipinos.

They often have degrees in math, science and education. Most of them speak English quite well to near native. They will work for less, work longer hours and not raise a stink when they are asked to do something beyond their job description.

No thanks...my son has a couple and he keeps coming home with sentences in incorrect grammar. He is P5 and even he can see the errors! If they are not qualified to teach in my home country (Australia), then they are no better than an unqualified native speaker. They are hired because they are abundant and cheap....quality is a secondary consideration.

[dotpoom]

I think it's only right that a teacher of English should have an education degree., just being a native English speaker doesn't make an English teacher. That would be like saying because i can drive a car, that makes me a mechanic.

[RtotheC]

Having both a TEFL and a degree in English i can say with great insight that the TEFL was much, much more useful as far as actual preparation for teaching mostly due to the fact that it included student teaching. Experience is far more valuable that any piece of paper.

Also, a teacher with a degree in education and a teaching license could easily go to any of the top international schools anywhere in the world. It would be rediculous for them to become English teachers here.

Let's face it though, if the law were actually enforced there wouldn't be any teachers here, most are working without work permits anyway, so i don't see this becoming a problem anytime soon anyway.