True Internet, do I get what I pay for?

[h90]

My invoice from my very old contract says:

?? Speed Internet 13M/1M 1.199 Baht

Include Wifi Unlimited (100B): 0 Baht

Total with the 7% VAT is 1282.93 Baht

Offer on their webpage:

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/new-customer/new-customer-promotion-promotion/entry/2338

20/2 for 1299

on

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-internet-xdsl/entry/2346

13/1 for 899 Baht

My modem says:

Modulation : ADSL2+
Annex Mode : Annex M
Line State : up
Lan Tx : 216635
Lan Rx : 164808
ADSL Tx : 156704
ADSL Rx : 196797
CRC Down : 0
CRC Up : 6
FEC Down : 0
FEC Up : 54941
HEC Down : 36
HEC Up : 0
SNR Up : 30.0
SNR Down : 14.8
Line Attenuation Up : 5.9
Line Attenuation Down : 19.0
Data Rate Up : 1246
Data Rate Down : 11776

Somehow I can't make sense of it all.....But I don't want to call true unless I understand it.

[RichCor]

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex M
Line State : up
Data Rate Up : 1246
Data Rate Down : 11776

meaning:

Data Rate UP: 1246 kbps (1.2 mbps)

Data Rate DOWN 11776 kbps (11.776 mbps)

Though, you should test using freshly initialized settings after power cycle your modem (Power Off / wait 10 secs / Power On / Test when ready)

[h90]

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex M

Line State : up

Data Rate Up : 1246

Data Rate Down : 11776

meaning:

Data Rate UP: 1246 kbps (1.2 mbps)

Data Rate DOWN 11776 kbps (11.776 mbps)

Though, you should test using freshly initialized settings after power cycle your modem (Power Off / wait 10 secs / Power On / Test when ready)

Same:

Data Rate Up : 1242

Data Rate Down : 11776

When you say 11.776/1.2, that is strange, it is not 13/1 as well I pay 1199 and not 899.

That all doesn't fit together or?

Or could it be that my line is bad?

I get a beautiful diagram which I have no idea about:

Edit: it doesn't show the picture I copy/paste.

I can attach it if it helps. Text for it is: "

System Log - Spectrum

The graph of signal-to-noise ratio shows the classic SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio), it can be useful in identifying the stability of DSL connection. Transmission / Reception shows how many bits per-carrier transmitted / received."

Is that related?

Edited June 10, 2014 by h90

[retoocs01]

Data Rate Up : 1246

Data Rate Down : 11776

yes, you get what you pay for.

But there are better offers nowadays.

Otherwise: never change a running system...(just to save a few bucks)

[RichCor]

From what has been reported here on ThaiVisa before, TRUE will either grandfather a contract or adjust the account to match the current offerings.

You can always try calling TRUE and they'll probably try to raise your speed caps, but given how low your "SNR DOWN" numbers are I doubt a higher speed would be stable. So they're more likely to adjust the billing.

These are all error statistics, reset to zero when the modem is power cycled. No download issues, really, but there are issues with upload on the wire circuit causing data to be retransmitted.

cyclic redundancy check (CRC) is an error-detecting code commonly used in digital networks and storage devices to detect accidental changes to raw data.

CRC Down : 0
CRC Up : 6

forward error correction (FEC) or channel coding is a technique used for controlling errors in data transmission

FEC Down : 0
FEC Up : 54941

Length/HEC-Based Framing is a coding technique used for verifying transmitted data

HEC Down : 36
HEC Up : 0

Signal to Noise Ratio appears normal. Only numbers below 10dB are usually worrisome. They usually start above 29dB and drop as the wire run gets longer and is influenced by Electro Magnetic Fields (interference/noise)

SNR Down : 14.8

SNR Up : 30.0

[h90]

From what has been reported here on ThaiVisa before, TRUE will either grandfather a contract or adjust the account to match the current offerings.

You can always try calling TRUE and they'll probably try to raise your speed caps, but given how low your "SNR DOWN" numbers are I doubt a higher speed would be stable. So they're more likely to adjust the billing.

These are all error statistics, reset to zero when the modem is power cycled. No download issues, really, but there are issues with upload on the wire circuit causing data to be retransmitted.

cyclic redundancy check (CRC) is an error-detecting code commonly used in digital networks and storage devices to detect accidental changes to raw data.

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 6

forward error correction (FEC) or channel coding is a technique used for controlling errors in data transmission

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 54941

Length/HEC-Based Framing is a coding technique used for verifying transmitted data

HEC Down : 36

HEC Up : 0

Signal to Noise Ratio appears normal. Only numbers below 10dB are usually worrisome. They usually start above 29dB and drop as the wire run gets longer and is influenced by Electro Magnetic Fields (interference/noise)

SNR Down : 14.8

SNR Up : 30.0

That numbers were with it running about 15 min. This here with 3 hours running and medium traffic.

Modulation : ADSL2+

Annex Mode : Annex M

Line State : up

Lan Tx : 592043

Lan Rx : 359218

ADSL Tx : 331221

ADSL Rx : 575518

CRC Down : 0

CRC Up : 9

FEC Down : 0

FEC Up : 23493

HEC Down : 294

HEC Up : 0

SNR Up : 32.0

SNR Down : 14.5

Line Attenuation Up : 5.6

Line Attenuation Down : 18.0

Data Rate Up : 1246

Data Rate Down : 11776

Wiring in the house looks OK, so I guess I can't do much. Internet feels with the new modem 100 % faster than with the old one at the same speed.

Old one reset itself often....maybe a result from connection problems?

[cassde]

I have True online and only pay 747.43 baht inclusive of VAT - you seem to be paying way over the odds.

[Pib]

Contact True and stress to them there is a problem with the line as you only get a "Data Rate Down of 11776 from looking at the modem's diagnostics/firmware menus" on your 13Mb plan; therefore, you are not getting the speed you are paying for. If you are ever going to pull 13Mb download speed your Data Rata is going to have to get to at least 13Mb, and probably a little higher depending on the network design.

If they can't improve your line's speed/physical line metrics then maybe you should consider downgrading to their 10Mb plan...you know the current line Data Rate can support a 10Mb plan since you are getting a Data Rate significantly over that. You probably wouldn't notice any significant difference in perceived speed in your day to day interneting like browsing, emailing, and maybe not even file downloading.

[lomatopo]

For True Online 13/1 DSL the current price is 899, or 962 with VAT plus 107 for any fixed line.

So you should renegotiate your fee.

Specifically re: exact data rates, those are probably acceptable levels for the service class.

What are the speedtest results from the True Online speedtest site? http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/

We have five 13/1 DSL lines here, here are the current stats from one

SNR Up : 26.4
SNR Down : 15.7
Line Attenuation Up : 10.5
Line Attenuation Down : 8.4
Data Rate Up : 1242 *
Data Rate Down : 15328 *

* max. achievable, provisioned at lower speeds.

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-internet-xdsl/entry/2346

There are a ton of bundled promotions available as well. See pages 41 - 47 here: (all still active) http://true.listedcompany.com/misc/PRESN/20140605-TRUE-keyPromotion.pdf

Edited June 11, 2014 by lomatopo

[johnh869]

I have True Cable Internet here in Sattahip. I'm paying 1,925 Baht total per month for 35 megs down and 3.5 megs up. My BKK server contact speed test is as follows: 59 megs down and 3.8 megs up using TOT or Speedtest. File transfer speed (which is 12.5% of the contact speed) is about 7.38 megs down and 475K up. However, the only time I saw anything close to that was when downloading from YouTube (4.3 megs per sec file transfer speed). Using Docsis 3.0 cable modem. Also have about 80 TV channels which I don't use because I have a Sat. dish. Very good customer service and response time. Hope this helps.

[noise]

I had a similar issue with True fiber optics and went into one of their main offices (in Chiangmai). They checked while I waited and said everything should be OK. But when I repeated I was not getting the speed I was paying for, they sent a tech to the house. He checked connections outside and checked my set up.

I am relating this to say True was responsive in trying to insure I got what I was paying for. Now in my case it turned out that I my PC was ether net cable connected to my separate router and not to my bridged cable modem. When connected to the modem, I got my program's speed.

This may be applicable for your situation: I was using TOT ADSL when True cable became available. TOT had treated me well for years, so I asked them if they could meet True's offer. TOT checked my line and said it could not give me more than 7Mbps down, the telephone wires and their hardware just could not provide more.

Prior to that, when I had performance problems, a TOT tech would come to the house and find corrosion problems on the pole on the street and correct that.

So you really need a check of your line and then a tech at the house to see where the problem might be if True says their end is OK.

[lomatopo]

13/1 is a promotion/plan/package whose figures represent the maximum performance level.

Maybe best to review the contract where I suspect you will find that the maximum levels are not guaranteed.

My best guess - I honestly didn't review the noise/snr stats - is that the OPs physical location (distance from the other DSL modem in True's serving shelf) is dictating the maximum performance at any given moment, and that 13/1 may not ever be achievable, unless the OP re-locates his domicile.

The other option would be to drop down to the 10/1 plan for 599 baht.

A win-win might be to pay the current price of 899, saving 300 baht, and still enjoying speeds a bit higher than the 10/1 plan might offer?

[chris2004]

I have Gold Truevisions and 3BB 10 Mbps internet but am thinking of switching my internet service to True. They have a promotion now with Gold Truevisions, a 18Mbps internet service and iSmart/iTalk all for 2,599 baht a month. That's about the same as i currently pay for my current 2 services (1800 +590).

I am a little reluctant as 3BB does work (most of the time) and if i switch will True be reliable. On paper though it does seem a good deal.

Can anyone say if their True internet is OK. Would their 18Mbps service be any better that 3BB's 10 Mbps. Also do they have any restrictions on the amount you can download each month as i use the internet quite heavily. Their details on iSmart/iTalk are in Thai so difficult for me to understand but if it's free must be good right?

Edited June 11, 2014 by chris2004

[lomatopo]

Can anyone say if their True internet is OK.

There have been many, many, many threads here on True DOCSIS (18 Mbps plan is delivered using that), so have a search/read. Most experiences are very positive. No monthly caps, although there may some hourly cap which you may be hard-pressed to exceed. Assuming you like TrueMove H, and have a compatible smartphone (850/2100 MHz 3G), then it might be good? iSmart 899, bundled into that promo (Sook 3x), is self-explanatory: 500 minutes, 3 GB 3G, free WiFi.

Edited June 11, 2014 by lomatopo

[whiteman]

I have True online and only pay 747.43 baht inclusive of VAT - you seem to be paying way over the odds.

And I bet there is some one getting the same as you but paying less than you. Larrdee dar

[Naroge]

My experience of True Internet is mixed on the technical side. Had several occasions of total downtime, but the last few months it has worked OK.

However, the service from their help-line staff has always been first class. And they are very happy to quote you the best package. So just make sure you call them once a year and ask them for the best package. They will then compare it with what you have right now, and if you want to change to the better one they fix that from the next billing cycle. Has worked well for me for many years.

[muratremix]

I have True Cable Internet here in Sattahip. I'm paying 1,925 Baht total per month for 35 megs down and 3.5 megs up. My BKK server contact speed test is as follows: 59 megs down and 3.8 megs up using TOT or Speedtest. File transfer speed (which is 12.5% of the contact speed) is about 7.38 megs down and 475K up. However, the only time I saw anything close to that was when downloading from YouTube (4.3 megs per sec file transfer speed). Using Docsis 3.0 cable modem. Also have about 80 TV channels which I don't use because I have a Sat. dish. Very good customer service and response time. Hope this helps.

How do you get tv channels along with 35/3.5 mb? I also have same package but no tv.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cassde]

My tv is seperate to internet

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[h90]

For True Online 13/1 DSL the current price is 899, or 962 with VAT plus 107 for any fixed line.

So you should renegotiate your fee.

Specifically re: exact data rates, those are probably acceptable levels for the service class.

What are the speedtest results from the True Online speedtest site? http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/

We have five 13/1 DSL lines here, here are the current stats from one

SNR Up : 26.4

SNR Down : 15.7

Line Attenuation Up : 10.5

Line Attenuation Down : 8.4

Data Rate Up : 1242 *

Data Rate Down : 15328 *

* max. achievable, provisioned at lower speeds.

http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-internet-xdsl/entry/2346

There are a ton of bundled promotions available as well. See pages 41 - 47 here: (all still active) http://true.listedcompany.com/misc/PRESN/20140605-TRUE-keyPromotion.pdf

Last Result:

Download Speed: 10190 kbps (1273.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 1030 kbps (128.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 55 ms

6/11/2014 11:51:31 AM

[johnh869]

Your right....I have no TV channels with 35M down and 3.5M up....But I don't need them because I have a True Sat.Dish system which I bought in 2007 and had installed which gives me many channels. I did have the 75 some odd channels with my old True cable modem system which included 15 megs down and 1.5 megs up. At that time I was using a Docsis 2.0 cable modem. They replaced the Docsis 2.0 modem with a Docsis 3.0 modem when I had the new service installed. The new connection worked with the old 2.0 modem but as soon as they changed the old one with the new one the download speed increased by 10 megs but the upload remained the same at about 3.8 megs All and all I am very satisfied with their service.

John's True Speed Test

ผลลัพธ์:
ความเร็วดาวน์โหลด: 59386 kbps ( อัตราการรับข้อมูล: 7423.3 KB/sec )
ความเร็วอัพโหลด: 3927 kbps ( อัตราการส่งข้อมูล: 490.9 KB/sec )
ค่าความหน่วง (Latency): 10 ms
6/11/2014, 4:40:14 PM

Edited June 11, 2014 by johnh869

[bangkapi]

I've had true for over 10 years.

Whenever I notice an advertise me for a better offer than I already have, I just call and they upgrade me to the same deal.

All you need to do is ask.

[Saradoc1972]

Last Result:

Download Speed: 10190 kbps (1273.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 1030 kbps (128.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 55 ms

6/11/2014 11:51:31 AM

kb and mb are not decadic. Computers do calculate in powers of 2, so 1 MB (or mb, indicating only bits instead of bytes [=8 bits], as is commonly used to give the speed of data connections) are not 1.000 kb but 2^8 kb, i.e. 1024 kb.

If you multiply the above 1273.8 KBs^-1 with 1024 you come pretty close to the 13 MB they promise. This is a common fallacy with harddrives, where for marketing purposes they will advertise a drive to have, e.g. 3 TB, but those are decadic and you would have to divide that capacity multiple times by 1024 to get the real capacity in bytes, which is obviously lower than if you divide it by 10^3.

Still, it might be worth checking on your contracts periodically and see if you can get a better deal for the same money or the same speed for less. There is a minimum livetime for all the contracts they offer, and they sure as hell won't infom you you could terminate your old one for a better one once that has run out.

[muratremix]

Last Result:

Download Speed: 10190 kbps (1273.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 1030 kbps (128.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 55 ms

6/11/2014 11:51:31 AM

kb and mb are not decadic. Computers do calculate in powers of 2, so 1 MB (or mb, indicating only bits instead of bytes [=8 bits], as is commonly used to give the speed of data connections) are not 1.000 kb but 2^8 kb, i.e. 1024 kb.

If you multiply the above 1273.8 KBs^-1 with 1024 you come pretty close to the 13 MB they promise. This is a common fallacy with harddrives, where for marketing purposes they will advertise a drive to have, e.g. 3 TB, but those are decadic and you would have to divide that capacity multiple times by 1024 to get the real capacity in bytes, which is obviously lower than if you divide it by 10^3.

Still, it might be worth checking on your contracts periodically and see if you can get a better deal for the same money or the same speed for less. There is a minimum livetime for all the contracts they offer, and they sure as hell won't infom you you could terminate your old one for a better one once that has run out.

Your calculations are wrong.

13 Mbit should give 1.6 Mbyte/sec download speed.

You can calculate it by dividing it to 8 to get in Bytes.

Or just 13/8 = Megabytes/s dl speed.

ADSL wastes %17.5 speed on overhead so providers should give %17.5 extra, so instead of 13Mbits on modem connection screen, you should see over 15Mbits connection speed in order to get 13Mbit full speed.

[Pib]

ADSL wastes %17.5 speed on overhead so providers should give %17.5 extra, so instead of 13Mbits on modem connection screen, you should see over 15Mbits connection speed in order to get 13Mbit full speed.

Agree regarding the ADSL overhead in the approx percentage you identify. However, when I was on the TOT ADSL 4Mb and 6Mb plans about 4 to 6 years ago whenever I looked at my modem firmware stats/Data Rate it would say 6.144Mb for the 6Mb plan and 4.096Mb for the 4Mb plan....and when running local speedtest.net tests I would pull the 6Mb/4Mb.

I guess what I'm saying is, it appears the TOT-provided modem (a ZyXel model) they gave me at the time reported the basic data speed "minus" whatever ADSL overhead. Maybe another modem would have reported the basic data rate "plus" overhead....don't know...guess it can depend on the modem and/or ISP network. But one thing for sure if a person is say on a 10Mb plan if the modem firmware Data Rate speed is not reflecting "at least" 10Mb then they are not getting what they are paying for....possibly have physical line issue.

[Sayonarax]

Been using True since it came online.. nothing wrong with them.

[Saradoc1972]

Your calculations are wrong.

13 Mbit should give 1.6 Mbyte/sec download speed.

You can calculate it by dividing it to 8 to get in Bytes.

Or just 13/8 = Megabytes/s dl speed.

ADSL wastes %17.5 speed on overhead so providers should give %17.5 extra, so instead of 13Mbits on modem connection screen, you should see over 15Mbits connection speed in order to get 13Mbit full speed.

How so? I just multiplied the speed of 1273.8 KB/s (i.e. bytes) by 1024 and arrived at my 13 MB/s. Of course we don't know, if the modem reports KB/s as a decadic or binary multiples of bits (to divide those by 8 then). Or am I thinking the wrong way round here??

You are obviously right with the overhead, but if any internet provider is advertising a number, that will with absolute certainty disregard overhead.

Actually, none of this matters.

I don't know about the intricate views of the Thai legal system regarding statements of speed in advertisement or True Internets terms of trade (you'd have to read them for disclaimers as to the actual speed you get), but in Germany those contracts started including waivers round 2004 to the effect that a promised line speed only gave the general speed of the connection and it might vary due to factors beyond their control. And then the cheeky bastards tried the courts to find out with how much less they could get away with.

Had one client refusing to pay his internet firm for a 12Mb connection that would have come out barely over ISDN-speed, they had the gall of even having collectors write to my client with fees on top after had I disputed their claims in writing. Told them to either go to to hell or to court, and they settled pretty quick.

So, as above, our OP should check his contracts on a regular basis and change providers or the specific contract in certain intervalls, if the line he's on has too much dampening it's bad luck.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[muratremix]

Your calculations are wrong.

13 Mbit should give 1.6 Mbyte/sec download speed.

You can calculate it by dividing it to 8 to get in Bytes.

Or just 13/8 = Megabytes/s dl speed.

ADSL wastes %17.5 speed on overhead so providers should give %17.5 extra, so instead of 13Mbits on modem connection screen, you should see over 15Mbits connection speed in order to get 13Mbit full speed.

How so? I just multiplied the speed of 1273.8 KB/s (i.e. bytes) by 1024 and arrived at my 13 MB/s. Of course we don't know, if the modem reports KB/s as a decadic or binary multiples of bits (to divide those by 8 then). Or am I thinking the wrong way round here??

You are obviously right with the overhead, but if any internet provider is advertising a number, that will with absolute certainty disregard overhead.

Actually, none of this matters.

I don't know about the intricate views of the Thai legal system regarding statements of speed in advertisement or True Internets terms of trade (you'd have to read them for disclaimers as to the actual speed you get), but in Germany those contracts started including waivers round 2004 to the effect that a promised line speed only gave the general speed of the connection and it might vary due to factors beyond their control. And then the cheeky bastards tried the courts to find out with how much less they could get away with.

Had one client refusing to pay his internet firm for a 12Mb connection that would have come out barely over ISDN-speed, they had the gall of even having collectors write to my client with fees on top after had I disputed their claims in writing. Told them to either go to to hell or to court, and they settled pretty quick.

So, as above, our OP should check his contracts on a regular basis and change providers or the specific contract in certain intervalls, if the line he's on has too much dampening it's bad luck.

You multiply kbyte with 1024 to get Mbits? What you get is Bytes, not Megabits.

1 kilobyte = 8 kilobits.

1 megabayte = 8 megabits

So 13 megabits = 13 / 8 = 1.625 megabytes

You mixed up with bits and bytes.