Got "retirement money certificate" from US Embassy yesterday

[chiang mai]

Actually the process for certification of documents by The Embassy of The Kingdom of the Netherlands in Bangkok is pretty close to the protracted US Procedure:

Requesting and legalising documents can take several months. When requesting a document, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is dependent on local circumstances and cannot therefore guarantee that the document requested will be supplied. We regret that your fee cannot be refunded if the document requested is not available, since costs will nevertheless have been incurred.

http://thailand.nlembassy.org/services/consular-services/legalisation-of-documents/legalising-dutch-and-foreign-documents.html

Your willingness to commit fraud and a felony against your own government regardless of the possibility (for now) of getting caught speaks loads

Look at the fraud the British government commit against their own people. All the UK state pensioners living in Thailand and many other countries are getting their annual pension increases stolen, yes stolen from them.

I never new this until I came to live in Thailand, and do you know, I was not surprised.

Stolen? I don't think so. The British have a policy for non resident Britons not to recieve "Cost of living" increases. The British choose this with eyes open to live in Thailand. They are taking money out of the mother country. A pensioner in Britain is keeping the money at home to the benefit of the "butcher, baker and candlestick maker."

Not 100% correct. UK expat pensioners who live in countries having a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK are entitled to cost of living increases, The Philippines is one such country.

[chiang mai]

No it is not frozen, only in certain countries is that so.

[ubonjoe]

Several posts have been removed for various reasons. Please stay on topic and no troll posts please.

[Justanotherpassword]

Actually the process for certification of documents by The Embassy of The Kingdom of the Netherlands in Bangkok is pretty close to the protracted US Procedure:

Requesting and legalising documents can take several months. When requesting a document, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is dependent on local circumstances and cannot therefore guarantee that the document requested will be supplied. We regret that your fee cannot be refunded if the document requested is not available, since costs will nevertheless have been incurred.

http://thailand.nlembassy.org/services/consular-services/legalisation-of-documents/legalising-dutch-and-foreign-documents.html

Your willingness to commit fraud and a felony against your own government regardless of the possibility (for now) of getting caught speaks loads

Look at the fraud the British government commit against their own people. All the UK state pensioners living in Thailand and many other countries are getting their annual pension increases stolen, yes stolen from them.

I never new this until I came to live in Thailand, and do you know, I was not surprised.

Stolen? I don't think so. The British have a policy for non resident Britons not to recieve "Cost of living" increases. The British choose this with eyes open to live in Thailand. They are taking money out of the mother country. A pensioner in Britain is keeping the money at home to the benefit of the "butcher, baker and candlestick maker."

Not 100% correct. UK expat pensioners who live in countries having a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK are entitled to cost of living increases, The Philippines is one such country.

"The British choose this with their eyes open to live in Thailand." I was not speaking about the Phillippines, just reacting to the "stolen" comment.

[Emster23]

Save the two 20's and a 10 for next years visit to embassy, unless they jack the price up again.

The $50 is like $50 you give bar girl: she will smile and tell you handsum man, they will smile and agree with your story. Sure doesn't cost them $50 to hit a hunk of paper with a stamp.

All the whingeing about it being so easy for US citizens. Embassy could care less if you telling the truth. Not their problem, yours and Thai government. Honesty not highly valued here anyway last time I looked.

I keep 800+k in bank here. Saves time, easy to do, costs 200 baht for letter... something like see saw safety anyway... baht up, account worth more here, baht down money in USA bank worth more. See it as win-win or lose-lose.... haha

[elgenon]

To the poster who said you can count the cost of insurance towards your incoming monthly cash flow.

You are nuts! Can you count it towards the 800,000 you need in the bank???? The inflow is supposed to at least equal the 800,000.

Stop giving advice when you don't know what the heck you are talking about. Making stuff up and representing it as truth is bad, bad.

[dinger]

Save the two 20's and a 10 for next years visit to embassy, unless they jack the price up again.

The $50 is like $50 you give bar girl: she will smile and tell you handsum man, they will smile and agree with your story. Sure doesn't cost them $50 to hit a hunk of paper with a stamp.

All the whingeing about it being so easy for US citizens. Embassy could care less if you telling the truth. Not their problem, yours and Thai government. Honesty not highly valued here anyway last time I looked.

I keep 800+k in bank here. Saves time, easy to do, costs 200 baht for letter... something like see saw safety anyway... baht up, account worth more here, baht down money in USA bank worth more. See it as win-win or lose-lose.... haha

Bit confused about bank account.

You have bhat in an account here that you brought from somewhere. Bhat goes up account worth more, agree but how does the bhat going down affect money in a USA bank?

[Evilbaz]

Save the two 20's and a 10 for next years visit to embassy, unless they jack the price up again.

The $50 is like $50 you give bar girl: she will smile and tell you handsum man, they will smile and agree with your story. Sure doesn't cost them $50 to hit a hunk of paper with a stamp.

All the whingeing about it being so easy for US citizens. Embassy could care less if you telling the truth. Not their problem, yours and Thai government. Honesty not highly valued here anyway last time I looked.

I keep 800+k in bank here. Saves time, easy to do, costs 200 baht for letter... something like see saw safety anyway... baht up, account worth more here, baht down money in USA bank worth more. See it as win-win or lose-lose.... haha

Bit confused about bank account.

You have bhat in an account here that you brought from somewhere. Bhat goes up account worth more, agree but how does the bhat going down affect money in a USA bank?

If you have baht in an account in LOS - FX no longer applies because a baht is a baht is a baht - unless you are spending it elsewhere in the region.

You probably can't repatriate it anyhow.

[pmarlin]

To the poster who said you can count the cost of insurance towards your incoming monthly cash flow.

You are nuts! Can you count it towards the 800,000 you need in the bank???? The inflow is supposed to at least equal the 800,000.

Stop giving advice when you don't know what the heck you are talking about. Making stuff up and representing it as truth is bad, bad.

OK, how about this example. Two people have the same exact amount in pension income before any deductions. One elects to have his insurance cost deducted from his income before he gets it. The other pays in cash after he gets his income.

should both declare the same income on the embassy letter? Just to add I didn't make that other post and I agree with you on that one.

Edited June 13, 2014 by pmarlin

[dinger]

We seem to have really wandered from the OP but interesting none the less. So let me ask you this

Gross vs. Net, I have seen this one asked many times. You gross 100,000 baht, after taxes you net 70,000 baht. What is the Thai government after, how much you made or how much you actually have to live on?

[Evilbaz]

I suggest that if Thai Immi check (and my experience is they are checking) then the only figure that counts will be what is transferred monthly into your Thai bank account.

[watcharacters]

There may very well be Americans who swear falsely to the affidavit //

It's not a "may" or a "if"; it's certain!

It's not that far (1 or 2 years maybe?) that news talked a lot about some Farangs unable to pay their hospital bill (still relatively modest), despite having an authorization of stay for Retirement, and then supposed to have the money to pay.

Several of them where American and the "problem" of this "worthless Embassy letter" has been discussed a lot on Internet at this time. Don't remember the whole story, but think Immigration has at this time often ask for more proves.

I understand the point of some members here: they have to prove they have money; Americans just have to lie... and clearly it's not a problem for some of them.

I think saying "American just have to lie" is a bit over the top. There are those from several other countries that don't have to do anything but swear an oath. And then there are others that only require documents that are not verified in any way to get the income letter.

Then of course their are others others that are paying a considerable amount of money in order to get proof they have money in the bank. There have been posts on this forum of how that was done.

.

You didn't mention the 18 - 20K + many pay in TEA money to their local Imm. office

[dinger]

I suggest that if Thai Immi check (and my experience is they are checking) then the only figure that counts will be what is transferred monthly into your Thai bank account.

I would agree. immigration doesn't care what you actually made (gross) they want to make sure that you have enough money to support yourself (net). And I would say that is the bottom line

[elgenon]

Pmarlin.

It's the amount that you have come into your account in Thailand. They are NOT the same if the amounts are not the same..

If you make 10 million dollars and buy an airplane for 9,999,999 before you get the money into your Thai bank account, should you get credit for 10 million dollars? It doesn't matter if it is insurance or an airplane.Why do you think insurance is something special?

Why do you think you would get credit for money that never arrived into your account?

[pmarlin]

Pmarlin.

It's the amount that you have come into your account in Thailand. They are NOT the same if the amounts are not the same..

If you make 10 million dollars and buy an airplane for 9,999,999 before you get the money into your Thai bank account, should you get credit for 10 million dollars? It doesn't matter if it is insurance or an airplane.Why do you think insurance is something special?

Why do you think you would get credit for money that never arrived into your account?

I disagree it is your net income. This extracted from the US embassy income letter .

"I also affirm that I receive USD $ ___________ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources. I am applying for a Thai visa/ or extension of a current Thai visa and any assistance you can provide in this request will be greatly appreciated "

You don't have to have that money in a Thai Bank Account. It can all go to your USA bank and withdrawn using that banks ATM card. Lot of people do it that way. Others like my self only transfer what I need to live on to my Thai Bank. How you spend your money has nothing to do with it.

[pmarlin]

I suggest that if Thai Immi check (and my experience is they are checking) then the only figure that counts will be what is transferred monthly into your Thai bank account.

You don't have to have a Thai bank account if you are using the income letter method.

[elgenon]

pmarlin

Have you read the Thai requirements as they state it?

[elgenon]

Pmarlin

BTW I like your calm demeanor.

[Pattaya46]

The news back then was not about Americans who were here on retirement extensions but about tourist who walked away from hosp bills.

That was why a proposal was made to require all tourist to purchase insurance.

If I am wrong please prove your source.

Not wrong, but you talk about more recent news.

I talk about something older, 4 years ago, that you still can find on Internet:

"Hospitals count cost of foreigners' bills, Elderly patients often can't pay for treatment" :

"penniless foreigners" /

"They didn't take out health insurance /

"They renew their visas every year and have no savings" /

"Some of them produced fake financial statements to have their visas renewed" /

...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals

Edited June 13, 2014 by Pattaya46

[pmarlin]

The news back then was not about Americans who were here on retirement extensions but about tourist who walked away from hosp bills.

That was why a proposal was made to require all tourist to purchase insurance.

If I am wrong please prove your source.

Not wrong, but you talk about more recent news.

I talk about something older, 4 years ago, that you still can find on Internet:

"Hospitals count cost of foreigners' bills, Elderly patients often can't pay for treatment" :

"penniless foreigners" /

"They didn't take out health insurance /

"They renew their visas every year and have no savings" /

"Some of them produced fake financial statements to have their visas renewed" /

...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals

OK thanks for that but it doesn't single out Americans who use the income letter method to extend their stay here like the post I replied to claimed. But did find this in the article link you provided.

"The state-run Vachira Phuket Hospital admitted a record 377 foreign patients, mostly Britons, in the 12 months to Sept 30, 2010." Which was the only nationality mentioned.

[pmarlin]

pmarlin

Have you read the Thai requirements as they state it?

Only what I need to bring to get my extension and I never had a problem. Been doing them since 2011. What I know is what I have learned from the experts who post on this forum over the years. After awhile you learn who you can trust with the right information.

[hawker9000]

Save the two 20's and a 10 for next years visit to embassy, unless they jack the price up again.

The $50 is like $50 you give bar girl: she will smile and tell you handsum man, they will smile and agree with your story. Sure doesn't cost them $50 to hit a hunk of paper with a stamp.

All the whingeing about it being so easy for US citizens. Embassy could care less if you telling the truth. Not their problem, yours and Thai government. Honesty not highly valued here anyway last time I looked.

I keep 800+k in bank here. Saves time, easy to do, costs 200 baht for letter... something like see saw safety anyway... baht up, account worth more here, baht down money in USA bank worth more. See it as win-win or lose-lose.... haha

But since that's well north of US$10,000, you have that extra FATCA reporting to do every year for the IRS, no?

[pagover]

My note about getting a notarized document from the US Embassy was my first, and now my last, effort to be informative on ThaiVisa. Now I see that the majority utilization of this site is to voice sour, grumpy, unsubstantiated opinions with basically no useful substance.

New to ThaiVisa and thinking what great resource it could be, I now see clearly that it is one huge bitching place.

The USA has a system of notaries, often called "notary public," which allows citizens to swear to something with the same idea as swearing in a court of law. It carries penalties for misuse and remains a remarkable "old world" feature of the time when a man's word was his bond. People are sent to prison based on sworn testimony that has the same level of validity as the notary system.

My conclusion is that I will weaken occasionally and spout off an opinion on this venue, but never again simply list a factual account of something I personally experienced. I abandon, for myself, this site as only palaver by people with too much time on their hands.

Whoa Hoss!! Don't run off too soon. I for one appreciate that information shared by you. I am an American and your post was exactly what I was looking for. I am in the process of applying for a retirement visa and with all the stipulations regarding the 800K or combination of monthly x 12 etc etc, to qualify, I was a unsure about the procedures that I would have to follow. Your timely post has provided excellent information and I now can confidently walk into the US Embassy next week, show them my retirement pay statements and get the notarized document that will place me on the correct path to obtain my visa and begin my "Retirement in Paradise."

[jobin]

I do not think that you need show the US Embassy anything except the US50, the passport and your conforming signature.

[pmarlin]

I do not think that you need show the US Embassy anything except the US50, the passport and your conforming signature.

Or thai baht and swearing that the information is correct.

[JLCrab]

I do not think that you need show the US Embassy anything except the US50, the passport and your conforming signature.

Correct. The US embassy will notarize your sworn statement as to your monthly income which in no way is an authentication of any document you may have in your possession which they will not even look at.

[JimGant]

I do not think that you need show the US Embassy anything except the US50, the passport and your conforming signature.

Right. No supporting documents for the monthly cash flow (note, they ask for "USD" received monthly, not "income." So, that monthly gift check from Aunt Martha would also count. So too the return of capital from your self-annuitized lump sum.)

Australia has the same 'no documents required' policy.

Whereas, Britain requires supporting documentation for declared income.

Moral: If you or your relatives weren't clever enough to emigrate to the Colonies, you may not be clever enough to actually be receiving that income you declare. Documents, please.