Thailand still very low in English language skills

[Gonsalviz]

Thais generally want to learn but many lack the motivation or time…MSG loaded food does not help also

Yeah, MSG, that's waht it is.

[mikebell]

I don't believe Cambodia scored lower than Thailand. I've been to four resorts in Cambodia recently; I live in Thailand. The standard of English in Cambodia was far higher than anywhere I've been in Thailand during the last 9 years.

[jcisco]

This thread touched on the attitude of many Thais seemingly being anti foreign and Thai is greatest. Recently in the face of this attitude I mentioned to the person to kill the attitude and to look around at everything and realise that it is foreign. Foreign invented, imported and deployed in thailand from construction to cars and phones.

And they agreed, and I asked then did any of that affect you from being Thai one bit. The answer was No..

The proverbial light amazingly showed a flicker of realization, at least they stopped being difficult for no particular reason.

Edited June 13, 2014 by jcisco

[bunuel]

Precisely.

Easier to blame the students than to ask yourself what you are doing wrong as an educator,

Have taught university level students from many Asian countries in New York, and the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans and Singaporeans all had good study habits that they had learned in their home countries. All I had to do was to avoid being boring, and they did the rest. It was very satisfying for me, because they were

enthusiastic and appreciative.

Thailand, alas, is at the other end of the academic spectrum, and it has nothing to do with the students, who are thr victims of an anachronistic academic system based on the pre-Enlightenment method of learning by rote. Students were not encouraged to ask questions, discuss or think independently.

Now, I can imagine some smug Thai educational bureaucrat asking what do these qualities have to do

with learning English. My answer would be " EVERYTHING!"

Students will only master a language if it is a tool for self-expression and communication. If you have nothing to say or express, you won't learn a damned thing.

Its a shame that this is the case with Thailand, the English Language has been an International Language for a very long time.

And to see that the Neighbouring countries like Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam have very high scores, would indicate that the problem lies in the

Thai culture and the Thai education system in general.

[bunuel]

A famous college prep school in the US where there were no discussions, and everything was taught by rote?While I am well aware there is a great diversity in American prep schools, my 4 years at Phillips Exeter Academy ( 1963-67) was a never ending series of discussions and demands for critical thinking. Granted, some teachers liiked me, and others didn't, and that reality was often reflected in my final grades.

I was not a happy camper at a boys boarding school in the New Hampshire woods, but we certainly learned how to work hard - those that didn't often failed, and were asked to leave. There was also intense competition for grades, and zero tolerance for cheating. Anyone caught cheating was expelled, period.

It has been my experience as a university professor in New York that foreign students like modern American university teaching methods because they are often more innovative than what they had at home. Universities in America - the best ones - are global insitutions which attract paying students from around the world. And,

just like Exeter, they tend to get the best students.

And teachers, because good teachers like to teach at places where they are appreciated, and given some latitude. No one expects to get rich as a teacher - it is all about satisfaction and self-respect,

After six months teaching at a Thai university of sone repute, I quit because I would have lost all my self-respect as I realized I was party to a completelty frauduient education system only interested in perpetuatioh of artifice and appearances, and with no interest in the pursuit of knowledge.

While I have enjoyed my experience studyiing and teaching in some Asian systems, like the Japanese and

Singaporean, the Thai educatiohal system merits demolition and reconstruction from scratch. Like much of

Thailand, it is stuck in a 19th century rut.

quote name="thailiketoo" post="7968452" timestamp="1402664468"]

Why always assume that Western methods are best for people from the East? Thai people need to learn how to survive and be successful in Thai society...The arrogance of 'educated' people from the West is mindboggling. Despite years of been trained in 'critical thought' Westerners always assume they know what is best for 'developing countries'...

It seems you've missed the point in your defensiveness over the East not being as advanced as the West. China is very rapidly trying to convert its education system to resemble the West's. It's Rote Learning vs. teaching Critical Thinking. Why do you think every Thai parent, who can afford to, wants their child 'Western' educated (either International school or sent to Western country)? Even if there were no Western' teaching style, the Rote Learning employed in Thailand teaches the children to be good little 'serfs' who never question authority (teachers) and only learn enough to be low-level employees. They will never invent anything on their on as the creativity has been beaten out of them. Diversity of ideas in the classroom is not tolerated, etc. Are you really defending the education system in Thailand? It's got nothing to do with arrogance as, objectively, the Western methods are far superior to Rote Learning. Duh!

I went to private schools in the USA till I got to college. Everything was rote learning till I got to college. In college I can only remember one course that was not rote learning. Whenever I did not agree with the instructor I flunked. When it was a question of the instructors opinion being correct or mine being correct; mine got me an F.

I was born in 1952 and went to a rural school until grade 10 when I transferred to a small town high school. Beginning in grade 4, excepting for mathematics, the sciences and grammar, lively discussions were encouraged. We were questioned more than lectured to. The only teachers who weren't keen to discuss were the ones who were not prepared in the subject matter. I'm sorry you got Unionized teachers who don't need to perform to earn their salary. I am aware the the educations system in the US has greatly deteriorated since my school days. I have continued with life-long self education because I had teachers who inspired me to learn. IMO, one of the reasons for he decline of the US is the decline of its education system.

"The mediocre teacher tells,

the good teacher explains,

the superior teacher demonstrates,

the great teacher inspires"

William Arthur Ward

I went to a famous college prep school and a prestigious 200 year old university. I graduated from college when you were about 10 years old.

[ppmacready]

Only low in English skills?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. The topic isn't about WWII.

[thailiketoo]

A famous college prep school in the US where there were no discussions, and everything was taught by rote?While I am well aware there is a great diversity in American prep schools, my 4 years at Phillips Exeter Academy ( 1963-67) was a never ending series of discussions and demands for critical thinking. Granted, some teachers liiked me, and others didn't, and that reality was often reflected in my final grades.

I think I got the quotes right. I have only a simple question. Could you give me one example of a discussion involving critical thinking in high school (prep school). I remember Latin, French, Spanish, Physics, Chemistry, Typing, Speed reading, Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus, Geography, History.

No one every asked for my opinion. I don't remember discussing any facts. Facts were facts. The teacher talked and you gave it back in a blue book at exam time.

[Jimjim1968]

From my observations possible reasons for the low level of English amongst Thai people is the method of teaching English by the Thai teachers.

Also the very low salary offered to native speakers means a low quality supply of native speaking teachers.

Address these two issues and you can start moving forward.

[thailiketoo]

From my observations possible reasons for the low level of English amongst Thai people is the method of teaching English by the Thai teachers.

Also the very low salary offered to native speakers means a low quality supply of native speaking teachers.

Address these two issues and you can start moving forward.

Teachers from the Philippines are readily available to teach in Thailand. The level of English in the Philippines is far better than Thailand. Philippine will work in Thailand for the wages currently offered.

Hire more teachers from the Philippines and the problem is solved.

[Anon999]

No, the primary reason for poor English skills is an aversion to anything foreign. There is a political and cultural fear that English language skills would wash away Thainess. When the government creates an atmosphere of English language immersion this will be eliminated. But, this is Thailand, and that will never happen.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Maybe in your neck of the woods but don't generalise. In my experience they also want to learn English English and I'm in Isaan.

[DrDweeb]

I have just finished teaching an intensive English conversation course to medical students.

It was a 14 day course with no tests whatsoever. Just pure conversation, fun and games.

The students wrote in their evaluations that "they learnt more in the last 14 days, without the pressure of grades, than in the whole semester.

What I mean to say is that the report is correct in many aspects. Thai students have this fear of getting low grades and this probably influences their confidence and learning abilities.

On a side note...They are all potential surgeons but I hope I never have to be operated on by one of them. Even though the course was fun and games the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unfortunately for the country rather than actual students the whole system is flawed from the outset.

Cheating isn't really seen as wrong. Remember the incident at Ramkamheng Uni with Mr. Ts son and the comments of the deputy head who said cheating was not a serious matter.

Students don't really have to fear failure as for many and varied reasons not many do unless an outcast and a real nonentity.

Students get passes and qualifications they didn't earn or don't deserve and the country gets landed with all these ' qualified ' people.

The deputy head of Ramkhamhaeng Uni. said cheating is not a serious matter and now it's OK for Thai students to cheat.

Bill Clinton said BJs weren't sex so now very many high school students in the US give oral sex thinking it is not 'real' sex.

It begins with the leadership.

Fairly silly analogy.

The point is not about the school administrator saying it. The point is that most Thais (old and young, educated and not) seem to agree with the idea.

How many Americans agreed with Bill Clinton's idiotic statement?

I shall await your answer.

OT: When Bill was responding and said "I did not have sex with that women", he was referring to "sex" as described in a rather lengthy and astoundingly complex and comprehensive definition of "sex", penned by the questioners. It was so lengthy that the judge had it shortened to 3 pages (!) IIRC. In any case, during the abridgement, and prior to Bill being asked, "oral sex" somehow got cut. Bill didn't actually lie in any legal sense. The person asking the question had gone to extreme lengths to define sex, and oral sex wasn't in the definition, so Bill's answer was legally truthful. Not Bill's fault really.

Now, Bill, you, me and everyone else on the planet know what sex is, but in a court of law, that might not count for anything, where the precisie definition of words can swing the outcome of a case.

And to close, it was a really silly analogy!

[DrDweeb]

I dread to think whats happening in their Air Traffic Control towers then.

Why?

Because, for better or worse, ATCs communicate in English. I think the only exception is in emergency situations, a native speaking ATC of country X may communicate with a native speaking pilot from the same country.

I have spoken English with quite a few Thai pilots, and their English was fine. I have no reason to assume that Thai ATCs do not speak English.

[slipperylobster]

Thais generally want to learn but many lack the motivation or time…MSG loaded food does not help also

Western stocked food contains MSG as well, and many of us speak english ! MSG actually never inhibited my learning skills....gave me a bit of blood pressure problem, though. In the Philippines, MSG is used even more than here. When I stop using MSG, my language skills still do not increase.

Edited June 15, 2014 by slipperylobster

[rametindallas]

Unfortunately for the country rather than actual students the whole system is flawed from the outset.

Cheating isn't really seen as wrong. Remember the incident at Ramkamheng Uni with Mr. Ts son and the comments of the deputy head who said cheating was not a serious matter.

Students don't really have to fear failure as for many and varied reasons not many do unless an outcast and a real nonentity.

Students get passes and qualifications they didn't earn or don't deserve and the country gets landed with all these ' qualified ' people.

The deputy head of Ramkhamhaeng Uni. said cheating is not a serious matter and now it's OK for Thai students to cheat.

Bill Clinton said BJs weren't sex so now very many high school students in the US give oral sex thinking it is not 'real' sex.

It begins with the leadership.

Fairly silly analogy.

The point is not about the school administrator saying it. The point is that most Thais (old and young, educated and not) seem to agree with the idea.

How many Americans agreed with Bill Clinton's idiotic statement?

I shall await your answer.

OT: When Bill was responding and said "I did not have sex with that women", he was referring to "sex" as described in a rather lengthy and astoundingly complex and comprehensive definition of "sex", penned by the questioners. It was so lengthy that the judge had it shortened to 3 pages (!) IIRC. In any case, during the abridgement, and prior to Bill being asked, "oral sex" somehow got cut. Bill didn't actually lie in any legal sense. The person asking the question had gone to extreme lengths to define sex, and oral sex wasn't in the definition, so Bill's answer was legally truthful. Not Bill's fault really.

Now, Bill, you, me and everyone else on the planet know what sex is, but in a court of law, that might not count for anything, where the precisie definition of words can swing the outcome of a case.

And to close, it was a really silly analogy!

[rametindallas]

Unfortunately for the country rather than actual students the whole system is flawed from the outset.

Cheating isn't really seen as wrong. Remember the incident at Ramkamheng Uni with Mr. Ts son and the comments of the deputy head who said cheating was not a serious matter.

Students don't really have to fear failure as for many and varied reasons not many do unless an outcast and a real nonentity.

Students get passes and qualifications they didn't earn or don't deserve and the country gets landed with all these ' qualified ' people.

The deputy head of Ramkhamhaeng Uni. said cheating is not a serious matter and now it's OK for Thai students to cheat.

Bill Clinton said BJs weren't sex so now very many high school students in the US give oral sex thinking it is not 'real' sex.

It begins with the leadership.

Fairly silly analogy.

The point is not about the school administrator saying it. The point is that most Thais (old and young, educated and not) seem to agree with the idea.

How many Americans agreed with Bill Clinton's idiotic statement?

I shall await your answer.

OT: When Bill was responding and said "I did not have sex with that women", he was referring to "sex" as described in a rather lengthy and astoundingly complex and comprehensive definition of "sex", penned by the questioners. It was so lengthy that the judge had it shortened to 3 pages (!) IIRC. In any case, during the abridgement, and prior to Bill being asked, "oral sex" somehow got cut. Bill didn't actually lie in any legal sense. The person asking the question had gone to extreme lengths to define sex, and oral sex wasn't in the definition, so Bill's answer was legally truthful. Not Bill's fault really.

Now, Bill, you, me and everyone else on the planet know what sex is, but in a court of law, that might not count for anything, where the precisie definition of words can swing the outcome of a case.

And to close, it was a really silly analogy!

a rather lengthy and astoundingly complex and comprehensive definition of "sex", penned by the questioners. It was so lengthy that the judge had it shortened to 3 pages (!) IIRC. In any case, during the abridgement, and prior to Bill being asked, "oral sex" somehow got cut. Bill didn't actually lie in any legal sense. The person asking the question had gone to extreme lengths to define sex, and oral sex wasn't in the definition, so Bill's answer was legally truthful.

Your claim above is factually and provable wrong. When Bill Clinton made that statement, he was not responding to 'a rather lengthy and astoundingly complex and comprehensive definition of "sex", penned by the questioners. It was so lengthy that the judge had it shortened to 3 pages (!) IIRC. In any case, during the abridgement, and prior to Bill being asked, "oral sex" somehow got cut. Bill didn't actually lie in any legal sense. The person asking the question had gone to extreme lengths to define sex, and oral sex wasn't in the definition, ' He was speaking to millions of Americans on television when he stated, "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinski". He was not under oath. Everyone who read newspapers knew about the 'infamous blue dress' with the presidential DNA stains on it and knew he was lying. He, again, lied in a deposition and was impeached for it. The public was unaware of any extenuating 'abridgment' that, within three pages, defined sex without mentioning oral sex. I was not aware, either. Do you have any link(s) to prove your claim? I thought not

When the president told the American public on television that he didn't have sex when, provably, he had had oral sex with Ms Lewinski, the press, soon after, began reporting a spike in high school oral sex with the students saying the president's statement proved they were nor really having sex. This is the example he set for the youth so, my analogy was appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal

[Dumu Ali]

thai schools are full of corruption, the headmasters are corrupt, the teachers are corrupt and I once met a Thai english teacher who could hardly speak english

One American english teacher lost his job because a filipino would take over the job for half salary this is even more corruption

Bottomline is Honesty = Smart and Corruption = stoopid

Thai teachers often lack education and morals and I guess that low salaries make them more corrupt

[bangkoklasse]

thai schools are full of corruption, the headmasters are corrupt, the teachers are corrupt and I once met a Thai english teacher who could hardly speak english

One American english teacher lost his job because a filipino would take over the job for half salary this is even more corruption

Bottomline is Honesty = Smart and Corruption = stoopid

Thai teachers often lack education and morals and I guess that low salaries make them more corrupt

Yes Thai teachers often lack education. But so does the foreign teachers here

[maxme]

thai schools are full of corruption, the headmasters are corrupt, the teachers are corrupt and I once met a Thai english teacher who could hardly speak english

One American english teacher lost his job because a filipino would take over the job for half salary this is even more corruption

Bottomline is Honesty = Smart and Corruption = stoopid

Thai teachers often lack education and morals and I guess that low salaries make them more corrupt

Yes Thai teachers often lack education. But so does the foreign teachers here

Such as?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[DrDweeb]

I can read, you clearly cannot.

Judges participate in court cases, not television.

I have changed nothing in content or context of my original post, except bothered to rebut your assertion and corrected my quotation.

You declaring yourself a whiner is vaguely comical

End ...

Edited June 16, 2014 by DrDweeb

[DrDweeb]

I can read, you clearly cannot.

Judges participate in court cases, not television.

I have changed nothing in content or context of my original post, except bothered to rebut your assertion and corrected my quotation.

You declaring yourself a whiner is vaguely comical

End ...

It seems my rebuttal got axed without notification. Too bad, the target deserved it.