Buying condo in a Thais name and protecting myself

[BuffaloRescue]

Hi

I want to buy an old condo in an old block. Its about 500k.

Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name. I have a Thai friend who i trust 99% but just to be sure I want to get a contract to protect me. So i was thinking of a lease. But all the information ive found about getting leases for condos in Thailand are about leasing from the property developer. Since shes not the developer what can I do? Some kind of contract giving me the right to stay there for 30 years or when its sold i get the money from it.

In laymans terms.. what can I do?

Thanks

[swissie]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

[BuffaloRescue]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

[BuffaloRescue]

Or is there some other way to get the foreign transfer thing (in chiang mai). I heared that in pattaya theres a company that can get it for 1% they are involved in some kind of foreign exchanges. But im not sure if its legal. Dont want any repercussion in future when i try to sell

[pdwarf1]

If the condo is in the Thai's name, what difference does it make about where the money comes from. If you sell at a later date, you will need the Thai to say OK. Proof of importing the funds to buy a condo is only if the condo is in your name.

[bifftastic]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

If you still have the details of the transfer, I believe you can get the bank to issue the paperwork that you need.

After all, the money did originate abroad, all you need is the document that says that.

[I Like Thai]

Never be worth more dead than alive.

[RubberBroke]

Or is there some other way to get the foreign transfer thing (in chiang mai). I heared that in pattaya theres a company that can get it for 1% they are involved in some kind of foreign exchanges. But im not sure if its legal. Dont want any repercussion in future when i try to sell

It's perfectly legal. they give you the Tor Tor 3 against cash that you 'SUPPOSEDLY' gave them

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

If you still have the details of the transfer, I believe you can get the bank to issue the paperwork that you need.

After all, the money did originate abroad, all you need is the document that says that.

As long as the foreign inward transfer did not specify a 'reason for transfer' you can ask the bank for a letter to give to the land office. Depending on how long ago that was, the bank might charge you a service fee.

[laowai1960]

Do a calculation of the fees, charges and exchange rates involved in sending the money back to your country of origin and then transferring it back to Thailand, specifying a condo purchase as the reason for the (second) transfer.

[SDM0712]

This topic goes round and round is always a conflict of what can and cannot be done.

In theory your friend can buy the condo, and lease it to you for 30 years and then give you a contract promising to extend the lease by another 30 years at the end of the first 30 and then another 30 at the end , so effective ownership of 90. In Law you cannot have more than a 30 year lease, but the Law does not forbid another lease to be granted at the end of the period. You should also have built into that a power of attorney giving you the right to sell it and sign the relevant paperwork, although in practice the POA is not always acceptable to the Land Department. One danger is what happens if you fall out with your friend or something more serious like she dies. Technically she owns your condo, which could pass to her heirs.

Rather than take too much advice here go and see a lawyer, and one that's been recommended to you, and not the cheapest !

SDM

PS It sounds very cheap, which always makes me wary. Any big cracks, is it very small, in terrible order, or off sniper alley ? Does it have enough power points ?

[RAZZELL]

Are you talking 500k baht? Because I don't know what sort of condo you get for such a princely sum

The fees aren't going to be that much even if you send the funds out of the country and back.

RAZZ

[technologybytes]

Ok, I understand what you are saying... You already transferred the money so you can't get a Tor Tor San to show the money cane from your bank.

Actually, in my experience (I have bought a few cheap condos in Chiang Mai) the land office will accept a copy of a statement showing the transfer (no matter how long ago) and you can also get a letter from your bank stating that the money was transferred from overseas. At least I have done that and Bangkok Bank were more than happy to help.

Some district offices are more relaxed than others, in my experience both Chiang Mai Muang and San Sai are relaxed about that. The law (Thailand Condominium Act) says you need to transfer the money from your own account overseas, but in reality it can come from anywhere. They just want to see it was funded from overseas.

Don't put a condo in a Thai persons name, it makes a lot of complications and you then need all the bills in the other persons name and you can't get the yellow family book.. which you want.

If you can't work it out and you are in Chiang Mai just send me a message and I'll try and help you.

[SDM0712]

Don't put a condo in a Thai persons name, it makes a lot of complications and you then need all the bills in the other persons name and you can't get the yellow family book.. which you want.

As far as I know you do not need to own a property to get a Yellow Book, you just need to show that you are a permanent (or rather not temporary) resident. I have a Yellow Book, yet I do not own my house for example.

With regard to not putting it in a Thai name, the only methods I am aware of, and I am interested in what you have in mind, if only from professional curiosity ;

1. If the the building is registered under The Condominium Act the 49% of it can be registered in a non-Thai name. But as far as I am aware the building cannot be registered retrospectively, so unless it was registered when it was built this option is not available.

2. Setting up of a Thai company to act as as a vehicle to retain control rather than complete ownership. Even though there are many difficulties with this method now relating to the illegality of nominee shareholders and the like, the process is still common.

3. As described, registering in a Thai name and then leasing it back from them as I have described.

Rather than PM it, it would be very interesting to know what other methods you are suggesting if they are not covered here.

Regards

SDM

[vadimbz]

You could open an expat account in a global bank with internal transfer between branches, e.g. hsbc expat, citi ipb. Unfortunately none of them cover Thailand, or at least none did last time I checked (they all have Vietnam though ). Perhaps there are similar regional operations that can do the trick. And yeah, forget Thai name thing.

Edited June 16, 2014 by vadimbz

[berriev]

I believe the only legal way of protecting yourself (interests) when buying property in Thailand is, making a "Usufruct", before you buy, but you will need to speak to a proper lawyer about this

[peterb17]

Or is there some other way to get the foreign transfer thing (in chiang mai). I heared that in pattaya theres a company that can get it for 1% they are involved in some kind of foreign exchanges. But im not sure if its legal. Dont want any repercussion in future when i try to sell

Is there any reason why you could not transfer the money back home and then back again to Thailand . I realise this will be expensive. To buy your condo in someone else's name is just crazy, considering a condo is the only thing that you can own freehold legally .

In Pattaya there are thousands of condos, old and new for sale. I have friends who have had condos on the market for ages.

So buy a condo to use for holidays or to live in, never as any form of investment and do not presume you could sell it in the future.

[332]

If need be, just send the money home and transfer it back again.

You may wish you did at a future date, if you don't.

[332]

Are you talking 500k baht? Because I don't know what sort of condo you get for such a princely sum

38sqm room with small kitchen area.

http://chiangmaiproperties.co.th/EN/condo/sale/Fully-furnished-studio-with-1-bathroom%28s%29-in-Sri-Anan-Condo/C1207.aspx

http://chiangmaiproperties.co.th/EN/condo/sale/list.aspx?min=0&max=1000000

Okay for some people. Also okay for some people keeping it as an emergency place and rent it out until then. 3000b p/m rental is about 3 times better than the 2.35% Thai banks will give.

34sqm studio for 420k.

http://chiangmaiproperties.co.th/EN/condo/sale/Partly-furnished-studio-with-1-bathroom-in-SR-Land-Condo,-San-Sai,-Chiang-Mai/C1798.aspx

Nothing wrong with buying one and renting it out until a rainy day. Or if older, single and on a small pension. Or letting a university gik use it.

No need to be snarky.

Good luck with it OP. But as I said before. Have it in your name at all costs.

Edited June 16, 2014 by 332

[glcdc]

you have a thai friend you trust 99%. If theres a 1% chance you'll be screwed out of money in Thailand you'll be sxrewed.

Why not put the.condo in your name. seems to be the most logical way to protect yourself.

[dotpoom]

If the condo is in the Thai's name, what difference does it make about where the money comes from. If you sell at a later date, you will need the Thai to say OK. Proof of importing the funds to buy a condo is only if the condo is in your name.

He's trying to explain why he cannot put it in his own name...because he cannot bring in any more money because all his money is here already. He knows it doesn't make a difference where the money comes from when it is going into a Thai name....that's why he's doing it that way.

I suggest the OP just change the money here into dollars and back again into Thai Baht for the amount you require 500,000 Baht.... Worked for me OK,... Maybe you lose a bit changing money two times but is it not worth it to have the condo in your name?

Edited June 16, 2014 by dotpoom

[sanuk711]

There are other ways of doing this BuffaloRescue,--- I had friends that have brought Condo's without bringing money into Thailand.

Ahh I just looked up & dotpoom has supplied the answer, yes it easy to do it this way, My friends also brought USA$ then changed them directly into their account, it gets put down as foreign exchange in your bank book, which satisfies the Amphure ---do this & use your girlfriend as a back up if it does not work.

[jamestip2013]

Hi . I already had money in Thailand when I bought my condo in my name ....I had to go to the bank or clearing house to the point where the money acctualy arrived in Thailand ..OK .. I transferred money a long time before buying to the Bangkok Bank from Australia to their Airport branch.. For convenience I later closed that account and put the money into the Bangkok Bank Cha-am branch..

I then looked and found a CONDO and like you hit the same stumbling block discovering the land office wanted the address of the condo on my transfer certificate .. After quite a bit of asking realtors and the land office... they told me to get a "tor-tor- saam" .. So I go to my bank in Cha-am.. They couldn't help and sent me to the Airport Branch which is where the money went ..

Very helpfully the Bangkok Bank Airport branch armed with my passbook with the credit (deposit) in it they gave me some paperwork and a reference number re my transfer they explained that the money came through SWIFT via the Siam Pantip commercial Bank in Bangkok..

THAT IS THE KEY ...

Point off arrival of my funds to Thailand was that SWIFT whoused Siam Commercial bank as their clearing house for Thailand..

So now I have a reference number from my branch it was credited to ... So I head off to the Siam Panthip park head office in BKK ..to where they told me which floor ( i think 4th But not sure) .. gave them the reference number to get from their archives...I gave them the full number and address of the condo I was buying and then they wrote out "A TOT-TOR-SAAM" for me with on it written this transfer was " for the purchase of a condo . 275/303 and the EXACT address.of the condo I was buying.. There was NO FEE for this.

The transfer went through smoothly a couple of days after....

let me say I now am in my condo worry free and I can sell it at will with no lady involved or refusing to assign the lease to someone else who also can;'t demand money for the sale for her share!!! Believe me this happens too often..

.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

Get a banker, property agent of lawyer to do the financial (cough cough) paperwork for you.

(but don't let them handle your money)

Register it in your name.

Much less chance of shit happening that way.

Edited June 16, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[chiang mai]

If you've already transferred the money into Thailand, go to the bank that handled the transfer and get a copy of the Foreign Exchange Transfer form, easy, that's all you need, it doesn't matter if it was done some time ago, they have records..

[jamestip2013]

Hi . I also forgot to mention that I needed a letter from the manager or management company of my condo verifying that the purchase will NOT take the ownership level / voting rights in the block to more than 49%.. IE "farangs can only own up to 49% of the condos /and or 49% of the voting rights in a building...

[Langsuan Man]

Buffalo Rescue, are you still trying to get your girlfriends condo in your name ? as detailed here;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722886-still-possible-to-buy-in-company-name/

and here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723364-how-to-get-someone-to-sign-me-a-30-year-lease-on-condo-not-house/

No matter how many times you ask the question or re-spin it, the answer is going to remain the same

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Ok, I understand what you are saying... You already transferred the money so you can't get a Tor Tor San to show the money cane from your bank.

Actually, in my experience (I have bought a few cheap condos in Chiang Mai) the land office will accept a copy of a statement showing the transfer (no matter how long ago) and you can also get a letter from your bank stating that the money was transferred from overseas. At least I have done that and Bangkok Bank were more than happy to help.

Some district offices are more relaxed than others, in my experience both Chiang Mai Muang and San Sai are relaxed about that. The law (Thailand Condominium Act) says you need to transfer the money from your own account overseas, but in reality it can come from anywhere. They just want to see it was funded from overseas.

Don't put a condo in a Thai persons name, it makes a lot of complications and you then need all the bills in the other persons name and you can't get the yellow family book.. which you want.

If you can't work it out and you are in Chiang Mai just send me a message and I'll try and help you.

I agree 100%. If the money actually did come from outside of Thailand I am sure the bank will issue you a Tor Tor San if you have any proof at all, Visa Withdraw Slips, Money Transfer, etc. and ask for it. Maybe even more importantly willing to pay a little extra bank fee charge for it.

A 30 Year Lease is just that. A Lease for 30 Years! It might be okay if you are over 55 Years Old, and the person you select to own the property is your Thai Wife, which you want to pass this property on to later anyway. But not okay if things go South, which happens 50% of the time, and you find you no longer want to live in that location without your Thai Wife.

Getting another 30 Years Lease is not a for sure thing! Nobody here is on their second 30 Year Lease! It is just assumed you can get it. Getting the Thai Person, that on paper owns your condo, to agree to another 30 Year Lease is far from being a sure thing. It is not registered as such at the Land Titles Office. The only sure thing about this is that if they refuse to issue you another 30 Years Lease after the first one expired you can sue them for Breach of Contract.

So now this condo, which is rightfully yours to begin with, is turning into a mini nightmare for you 30 years later. Is there a Statue of Limitations in Thailand in how long a Contract can be valid for and even if you can sue after 30 years from when it was written? Well I don't know and neither do you! But I don't need to know this as it Is you buying this condo and turning it over to a trusted friend and not me.

Consider now also that this Thai Person you trusted with your Condo (who had better be your Mother) has died in this 30 year period. You agree that 30 years is a long time and a lot can happen between now and then. So what now? Your Condo is passed on to their heir and not you! A Son perhaps? He will still have to honour your 30 Years Lease but once that is over all he has to do is put your Condo up for sale and collect the profit.

With a Contract from the Original Thai Owner you can still sue her heir for another 30 Year Lease, if you can find him. What if he moved overseas in this time? What if he died to? What if he lost half of this condo in a divorce and now you have his x-wife's family to sue also? What if he took out a huge Mortgage from the Bank, at any time, and never paid them anything back? Do you now see all the "What If's" that you hoped originally would be a sure thing?

Even if you have the wherewithal to find everyone you need to sue and are successful in taking everyone to a Thai Court, who says you are going to win? I can sue KFC if I got a Chicken Bone stuck in my throat or slipped on a Banana Peel in the front of their store, but who says I would win anything? Just remember one very important factor here when it comes to sueing anyone and the Law. "Possession is Nine-Tenths of the Law!"

They, on paper at least, own your Condo and thus have Possession. Nobody put a gun to your head to sign over this Condo to anyone! It might be considered a gift for Services Rendered! So just because you changed your mind and want your condo back 30 Years later it doesn't mean they will agree with you. Adding in your Legal Fee's for a 500,000 Baht Condo, you would have nothing to win anyway.

So do as the Man says! Try the Bank First for a "Tor Tor San". If that fails send your money back out and in again. Western Union might work okay for this. Don't put this Condo in anyone else's name except yours. Even if you are planning a future divorce and are trying to hide funds now. There are better ways to do this.

Good Luck!

[BuffaloRescue]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

If you still have the details of the transfer, I believe you can get the bank to issue the paperwork that you need.

After all, the money did originate abroad, all you need is the document that says that.

Ah. I understood the transfer in has to explicitly state that its for the purpose of buying a condo (written as a reference on the wire). If thats not the case. I dont have a problem.

[technologybytes]

Don't put a condo in a Thai persons name, it makes a lot of complications and you then need all the bills in the other persons name and you can't get the yellow family book.. which you want.

As far as I know you do not need to own a property to get a Yellow Book, you just need to show that you are a permanent (or rather not temporary) resident. I have a Yellow Book, yet I do not own my house for example.

If you live on your own in a condo then you really do need to own it before you will convince a district office in Chaing Mai to issue a yellow book, I have been there and done that. In Thailand there is a huge gulf between what you should be able to do and what you can do.

I understand it's different if you live in your wifes house.

[ldnguy]

Quote: "Its difficult for me to transfer money from overseas to put in my name." = And why would that be a problem? Is Hollywood planning a remake of the series "The Fugitive" and you are the main actor? If not you will be better off in Cambodia.

Cheers.

Because i already transferred my money here before I planned to buy a condo. So i dont have overseas money to transfer in again.

Will probably be cheaper and less hassle to transfer the money than to buy in someone else's name, sort out the legal issues, etc. What if your friend dies before you? Are you planning to get him to make a will to live the condo to you? If not, it will go to his next of kin. You are trying to turn a simple situation into an extremely complicated situation. But that seems to be quite common for many foreigners living in Thailand.