Thailand to bring back Cambodian labour

[webfact]

Thailand to bring back Cambodian labour
By Digital Content



CHANTHABURI, June 16 -- Panicking Cambodian labourers, believing that Thailand plans to clear out all foreign labour from the country, have fled for their homes across the border, impacting Thai business owners along the border, as they rely on the migrants to operate their businesses.

Chanthaburi Thai-Cambodian Border Tourism and Trade Association vice-chairman Sombat Jeungtrakul said that Cambodian labourers are continuously returning to their home country, causing the number of Cambodians traders crossing over through the Chanthaburi border to dwindle greatly, with only a few crossing over to buy consumer goods, before hurriedly returning to Cambodia.

The Thai businessman said he has monitored reports on Cambodian laboures closely, as they have continued to go home and noticed that the current situation is now the most urgent concern spreading among Cambodians.

The trade association executive said that the Marine Ranger Unit in Chantaburi province has been trying to clarify the situation to Cambodians, as well as encouraging Thai employers to explain the facts to their Cambodian employees, stressing that most of the reports were false or exaggerated rumours, and that no Thai-Cambodian border area would be closed, and that Thailand has no plans to send back any foreign labourers to their countries.

Meanwhile the Thai authorities have been investigating the source of the rumour and the intentions behind it.

They have found that the rumour was spread from a network that could lose its benefit, once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-06-16

[jaidam]

The Cambodian workers are either legal or they are not. There is no point in the junta encouraging a labour grey market, it only tempts the authorities to extort the illegal workers. The process to register foreign workers should be greatly simplified if the junta decide that foreign manual workers are required.

[Briggsy]

The Cambodian workers are either legal or they are not. There is no point in the junta encouraging a labour grey market, it only tempts the authorities to extort the illegal workers. The process to register foreign workers should be greatly simplified if the junta decide that foreign manual workers are required.

Very fair comment.

Unfortunately virtually every piece of legislation goes through the following cycle :-

Law written not to be workable or achieve benefit to society but tweaked to provide an income for police / politicians / civil servants nexus.

Not enforced and thus ignored.

Patchily enforced to ensure a steady flow of bribes to the police, politicians, people of influence, etc.

Illegal activity grows exponentially.

Total enforcement with very harsh penalties, commonly known as a crackdown.

Negative consequences as a result of enforcing the law and loss of income to powerful groups.

Back to start and repeat.

[UbonRatch]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Edited June 16, 2014 by UbonRatch

[MK1]

Time to set up the PA system at the border and play KC & The Sunshine Bands - "Please don't go"...maybe they'll get the message before it's too late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSA_g4mHIXg

Edited June 16, 2014 by MK1

[Basil B]

The Cambodian workers are either legal or they are not. There is no point in the junta encouraging a labour grey market, it only tempts the authorities to extort the illegal workers. The process to register foreign workers should be greatly simplified if the junta decide that foreign manual workers are required.

Very fair comment.

Unfortunately virtually every piece of legislation goes through the following cycle :-

Law written not to be workable or achieve benefit to society but tweaked to provide an income for police / politicians / civil servants nexus.

Not enforced and thus ignored.

Patchily enforced to ensure a steady flow of bribes to the police, politicians, people of influence, etc.

Illegal activity grows exponentially.

Total enforcement with very harsh penalties, commonly known as a crackdown.

Negative consequences as a result of enforcing the law and loss of income to powerful groups.

Back to start and repeat.

I think you will find things are now different...

Thailand needs these workers, but it also needs to keep track of them and who is employing them, and also needs to ensure that the correct taxes are paid.

[clockman]

A cheap source of labour. Thailand cannot manage without these people. One day the tables will be turned.!

[webfact]

related

142,000 Cambodian workers return home from Thailand: official

PHNOM PENH, June 16, 2014 (AFP) - More than 140,000 Cambodians had fled jobs in Thailand to return home as of Monday, fearing a crackdown on illegal migrants under junta rule, an official said.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/734892-142000-cambodian-workers-return-home-from-thailand-official/

[webfact]

LABOUR
Crackdown on foreign workers untrue: Labour Ministry

BANGKOK: -- The Labour Ministry on Monday rejected as groundless the reports that foreign workers are facing a severe crackdown on the orders of the military junta.

The ministry’s permanent secretary Jeerasak Sukhonthachart said the crackdown on undocumented illegal workers was continuing as before. "There is no special policy to crackdown on the illegal workers in Thailand. The inspection emphasises their rights including conditions of employment and their rights under the law and their contracts," he said.

He was speaking after attending a national committee meeting on migrant worker management chaired by Deputy Chairman of the junta's National Council on Peace and Order Gen Tanasak Patimapragorn.

Thanasak asked him to clarify the ministry’s policy on migrant workers. The reports have resulted in an exodus of undocumented Cambodian workers fleeing Thailand and returning home.


-- The Nation 2014-06-16

[jcisco]

Sigh, sending Rangers with guns to explain something to those whom are fleeing from the organization they represent seems a bit errr, ill conceived.

[pisico]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

You need to get your information updated from real life.

I know Cambodians who have been in Thailand for a number of years without work permit albeit employed by Thai business owners. They work for wages below what the market bears. The local cop makes his monthly rounds, picks up the brown envelope from the business owners and there he goes sharing it with the local enforcer from the Labour Ministry. It is endemic and systemic.

They live a normal life, speak fluent Thai, work long hours and do not even have Cambodian passports in many instances.

ASEAN would benefit those workers from Cambodia but their benefits are as ignored as the copyrights on intellectual property, movies, IT programs, clothes, sunglasses, watches and a myriad of other products.

Thais feel a traditional animosity towards the Khmer people that dates back hundreds of years. Most of Isaan and even the Nowadays area known as Chantabury was once Khmer.

Bear in mind that Thailand abolished formally slavery in 1912. But the majority of the slaves were retained by the former owners and they applied to them the name of: khon chai. In vernacular, a life long house servant who will do anything the former masters would ask for. That label is still used nowadays to imply certain ownership of the worker. It's in the Thais social DNA.

Therefore, before there is a clear legislation to grant work permits, rights and visas to migrant workers from Cambodia or Myanmar, many moons will come and go. If that should ever happen, are we to expect that it will be enforced to the letter of the Law?

Thais are not notorious to like or abide by the Rule of Law.

This is not an evil country: it is a dysfunctional country steeped in feudal ways of life and behaviour.

[Chang_paarp]

All this contradicts what the General said about foreigners in his (published) thesis and on TV during one of his "calming" broadcasts.

[Fat Haggis]

There seems to be a massive back pedal on this one .

[BSJ]

Time to set up the PA system at the border and play KC & The Sunshine Bands - "Please don't go"...maybe they'll get the message before it's too late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSA_g4mHIXg

Some Thai people may think this song is a better choice!

KC and the Sunshine band - That's the way I like it!

[Robby nz]

There is a lot of emotive and rumor ridden stuff being written about this.

What I have seen of all the international reports CNN and US today are probably the most balanced.

It would seem that many of the Cambodians who are running really have no idea why, only that they have been told by someone of what will (might) happen if they stay.

None it would seem have actually witnessed any of the so called brutality or inhumanity, none know of any friends who have been beaten or killed.

Some have said that their employers have treated them badly but being illegal leaves them wide open to this and worse being trafficked.

Lets hope that a simple and preferably free system can quickly be put in place to register all the labor that comes in from all the neighboring countries.

For those who say it cant be done consider that the uncivil servants have a new boss now looking over their shoulders as do the police.

[swissie]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

You need to get your information updated from real life.

I know Cambodians who have been in Thailand for a number of years without work permit albeit employed by Thai business owners. They work for wages below what the market bears. The local cop makes his monthly rounds, picks up the brown envelope from the business owners and there he goes sharing it with the local enforcer from the Labour Ministry. It is endemic and systemic.

They live a normal life, speak fluent Thai, work long hours and do not even have Cambodian passports in many instances.

ASEAN would benefit those workers from Cambodia but their benefits are as ignored as the copyrights on intellectual property, movies, IT programs, clothes, sunglasses, watches and a myriad of other products.

Thais feel a traditional animosity towards the Khmer people that dates back hundreds of years. Most of Isaan and even the Nowadays area known as Chantabury was once Khmer.

Bear in mind that Thailand abolished formally slavery in 1912. But the majority of the slaves were retained by the former owners and they applied to them the name of: khon chai. In vernacular, a life long house servant who will do anything the former masters would ask for. That label is still used nowadays to imply certain ownership of the worker. It's in the Thais social DNA.

Therefore, before there is a clear legislation to grant work permits, rights and visas to migrant workers from Cambodia or Myanmar, many moons will come and go. If that should ever happen, are we to expect that it will be enforced to the letter of the Law?

Thais are not notorious to like or abide by the Rule of Law.

This is not an evil country: it is a dysfunctional country steeped in feudal ways of life and behaviour.

Excellent Post. They are few and far between but they tend to get lost among the routine "gobeldigook" and "boogaloo" here. Unfortunately.

Cheers.

[noitom]

Who will be accountable for decisions taken today on these issues? Will Prayuth be accountable? Will whoever is in charge be transparent and accountable?

[wandasloan]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

[EyesWideOpen]

This immigration crackdown / misstep is cutting down a nice little earner for the Thai

police. My girlfriend makes a weekly trip to the huge border market in Aranyaprathet.

When she would come back, it would be in one of those white vans. Every trip back there

would be a fair number of Cambodia people in the van . There were a lot of police manned checkpoints

on the road leading from the border. At each checkpoint, every Cambodian person in

the van had to pay 400 baht to the police, their papers did not matter to the police.....

After the coup, there was only a few checkpoints , manned by soldiers. They checked

everybody's papers .If the paperwork was correct, the person was allowed to travel

onward with no payment of money. If the paperwork was not correct, they were sent

back to the border. Wow, almost like a real country !!!!!

[FangFerang]

The one rumor the Cambodians heard that scared the daylight out of them was there had been a shooting, and several people disappeared. The story stated "most of the reports were false or exaggerated rumours"..the keyword is most.

According to a Cambodian I spoke to online--THAT was what did it. She said the families involved are now out of contact and worried about their people.

Their expat community is networked, probably more effectively than farang expats because they have more to lose, more to gain and lives that can easily be put under threat without recourse.

[phuketrichard]

THIS;

Meanwhile the Thai authorities have been investigating the source of the rumour and the intentions behind it.

They have found that the rumour was spread from a network that could lose its benefit, once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)

[Robby nz]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

You are right of course, the problem in this case is that someone or some group is trying to destabilize the country and get at the military.

Unfortunately they have no concern for those who their lies and rumor mongering hurts the most, the immigrant workers who they have scared into running from their jobs and from the country.

[tonbridgebrit]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Okay, so the suggestion is "rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda."

So, all those who are here legally, let them stay here, but we need to know exactly where they are and what they are doing ? What about the illegals that have been removed ? Are they going to be allowed back into Thailand (all of them ?), this time, LEGALLY ?

Does this mean that mass conversion of the illegal immigrant workers into legal workers is the solution to the problem ?

And if those illegal ones are to be removed and NOT allowed back in, well, there is still the issue of who is going to replace these workers ?

You want to see a reduction in slavery/con-artists,etc ? Well, yes, I certainly do as well. Actually, I would like to see slavery/con-artists totally removed !

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Cambodian workers are either legal or they are not. There is no point in the junta encouraging a labour grey market, it only tempts the authorities to extort the illegal workers. The process to register foreign workers should be greatly simplified if the junta decide that foreign manual workers are required.

Very fair comment.

Unfortunately virtually every piece of legislation goes through the following cycle :-

Law written not to be workable or achieve benefit to society but tweaked to provide an income for police / politicians / civil servants nexus.

Not enforced and thus ignored.

Patchily enforced to ensure a steady flow of bribes to the police, politicians, people of influence, etc.

Illegal activity grows exponentially.

Total enforcement with very harsh penalties, commonly known as a crackdown.

Negative consequences as a result of enforcing the law and loss of income to powerful groups.

Back to start and repeat.

I think you will find things are now different...

Thailand needs these workers, but it also needs to keep track of them and who is employing them, and also needs to ensure that the correct taxes are paid.

And ensure that their human rights are totally respected.

And bring labour brokers etc., under strict controls, including proper registration of their business with the said business required to lodge a cash security deposit (say 5Million Baht, maybe more) with the labour ministry (whoops) when the business is registered, to be used for strong fast compensation to any foreign workers who are tricked or poorly treated. Plus a scale of very severe punishment* for anything shady, including but not limited to:

- False information about the offered job

- Limits on up front broker fees

- Totally illegal for job brokers to continue to extract on a daily basis 20% or any % of the daily income from workers who end up in a long-term job (meaning more than one day).

*Severe punishment to include mandatory jail time, at least 5 years and much more (say 25 years) in cases like the fishing boat slavery cases.

Edited June 16, 2014 by scorecard

[Tokay]

If they welcome illegal Cambodians back, then where is the logic when they arrest illegal workers elsewhere like they did in Chiang Mai today? Or seeking farang who work without a work permit.

They need to take a stance and stick with it. Illegal workers are welcome in Thailand, or they are not.

[ratcatcher]

First the Khmers, when do they round up the illegal Burmese? Or are they all registered and legal?

[snottgoblin]

If they can help get these workers legal it will,clampdown on the regular shakedowns that the Cambodian workers who do not have work documents and passport currently encounter.

I hope that the companies that are ripping off these people are dealt with accordingly. Were I work we have some Cambodian staff, and we make sure that they are fully legal and they are paid exactly the same as local,Thai staff and treated no differently.

[chotthee]

Those of Thai police cannot keep illegal worker out.

Our great Prayuth can.

[Fat Haggis]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

You are right of course, the problem in this case is that someone or some group is trying to destabilize the country and get at the military.

Unfortunately they have no concern for those who their lies and rumor mongering hurts the most, the immigrant workers who they have scared into running from their jobs and from the country.

Nobody's spreading rumours, the Junta themselves said they were going to clamp down on illegal immigrants, it started around the 9th June, all you need to do is google it, and it's there.

You do realise that you yourself are also creating a rumour and are rumour mongering,by stating that someone, or some group is behind it by trying to destabilise the country.. You're simply "itching" to start pointing fingers West.

[thumper101]

"once Thailand has stricter control over the labour flow, as they would no longer be able to smuggle illegal workers into the kingdom. (MCOT online news)"

Which is exactly what I have maintained for the last 2 days, despite some (few) malapropisms from some 'reddened' members.

I made it clear: rid of the illegals, record who is here legally and where they are and what they are doing, and then open up again for recording new labouring visitors within the legal agenda.

That also helps to reduce slavery/con-artists, etc.

Yes, you have maintained that. The problem is that you don't have a handle on the problem. The problem is NOT, and the goal of this programme is not to regularise workers, register aliens, reduce slavery and make sure everyone pays his owed taxes fairly. At no time, in no place is that the aim.

The army or the police or immigration or the Board of Investment or the Official Thai Visa Keeping Track Committee all could handle the task easily to meet your goals - if that were the problem. It would be simple. However, you have not understood what the problem is.

.

You are right of course, the problem in this case is that someone or some group is trying to destabilize the country and get at the military.

Unfortunately they have no concern for those who their lies and rumor mongering hurts the most, the immigrant workers who they have scared into running from their jobs and from the country.

Someone like Emptyset you mean?